So this is an offshoot of the "Why is Golden Tate still a Giant?" thread. Here, the question applies to Evan Engram.
In his four seasons, Engram has shown flashes of big-play ability but that hasn't equaled to consistent production or simply not being a liability to the Giants. First off, he's injury-prone, with 2020 being the first time he played all 16 games. Second, this year when he played all the games, he was a disappointment. To give a couple examples:
2/3s of the interceptions Daniel Jones threw this year were thrown at Engram, with at least some bouncing off his hands.
He dropped 10% of his passes, including a pass in Week 7 against the Eagles where, if he didn't run an in-route before cutting back outside, he would have had a better chance of catching a pass that would have made a first down and won the game for the Giants.
So what is it? Is there something in him that Judge and Garrett see that the fans do not on the field? Is it lack of an attractive trading partner? The fifth-year option? If the latter, why did we give him that? Could have done it for Tomlinson.
He's a liability to the Giants and not worth keeping at this stage.
Why is Golden Tate still a Giant? - (
New Window )
2) The Giants haven't received any trade offers for him they consider to fairly compensate them for Engram
3) The new league year hasn't started yet
4) The franchise and transition tags, which give a window on potential free agents, can only be applied starting today
5) The NFL draft isn't until late April
6) ...
I get the frustrations with EE, but the lengths some will go, to the point where they're going to cut their most productive receiver? I'm glad some of you don't work in the front office.
WHY can't he figure the answers out without help?
Fook if I know.
I get the frustrations with EE, but the lengths some will go, to the point where they're going to cut their most productive receiver? I'm glad some of you don't work in the front office.
Viable? He's been a liability for the reasons I've stated in the OP.
The footage shows that Engram tried to do a fake-out move on the defensive back before cutting back outside. He doesn't do that, he has a step or two more on the defensive back, catches the ball, game over.
WHY can't he figure the answers out without help?
Fook if I know.
Do you know the answers any better than I do? This is what I'm gleaning from observing game footage and Engram's history. I'd rather you try and figure it out than personally attack me for asking questions.
Engram is getting way too much blame and attn for this season's struggles.
Just wait shit out. Some of you and this need for punishment and sending messages....doesn't really work that way..
Next year's offseason conversation of extending EE is going to be epic.
Viable? He's been a liability for the reasons I've stated in the OP.
The footage shows that Engram tried to do a fake-out move on the defensive back before cutting back outside. He doesn't do that, he has a step or two more on the defensive back, catches the ball, game over.
You have no idea what the play design was, so you could be blaming a guy for running the right pattern. He was 2nd in catches, 3rd in yards and led the team in YAC. As I said, he's a flawed player, but he's still one of the few weapons we have. But yeah, let's cut him.
As I said, I'm glad you aren't in the front office.
Now everyone is in a rush to get rid of him. If we can upgrade the position, great, let's do it, but the rush to get rid of him on a team that can't get out of its own way offensively is simply a bizarre obsession.
Is his salary guaranteed?
You have managed to insult shit with that comparison.
You do that, you have yourself a great TE
Would think everybody knows the Giants would need another TE if they released him, don't you?
His $6M salary is not guaranteed until March 2021 so there would be a start in the money needed to find a replacement...
You do that, you have yourself a great TE
So how hasn’t he caught up on that in four years on the roster?
Quote:
All they have to do is teach him how to catch and block.
You do that, you have yourself a great TE
So how hasn’t he caught up on that in four years on the roster?
Well, from what I understand he was considered a bit of a reach in the first round...
Now everyone is in a rush to get rid of him. If we can upgrade the position, great, let's do it, but the rush to get rid of him on a team that can't get out of its own way offensively is simply a bizarre obsession.
Well, lets be fair this isn't some unfounded "rush" to judgment. This board had plenty of similar comments about Engram all season long last year as he continued to be at the center of turnovers and missed opportunities.
He was a significant reason the team couldn't get out of its own way offensively. So what's so bizarre?
It's not any harder than that.
Well, lets be fair this isn't some unfounded "rush" to judgment. This board had plenty of similar comments about Engram all season long last year as he continued to be at the center of turnovers and missed opportunities.
He was a significant reason the team couldn't get out of its own way offensively. So what's so bizarre?
What is bizarre is calling to cut a guy who was one of your better offensive players. Upgrade the position, fine, but cutting him just so BBI feels better doesn't sound like a good business plan.
Quote:
In comment 15159446 cjac said:
Quote:
All they have to do is teach him how to catch and block.
You do that, you have yourself a great TE
So how hasn’t he caught up on that in four years on the roster?
Well, from what I understand he was considered a bit of a reach in the first round...
According to who? The 23rd pick in the first round isn't a reach.
Quote:
Well, lets be fair this isn't some unfounded "rush" to judgment. This board had plenty of similar comments about Engram all season long last year as he continued to be at the center of turnovers and missed opportunities.
He was a significant reason the team couldn't get out of its own way offensively. So what's so bizarre?
What is bizarre is calling to cut a guy who was one of your better offensive players. Upgrade the position, fine, but cutting him just so BBI feels better doesn't sound like a good business plan.
Presume the headline comment by most is "cut him" but they really mean replacing him with someone else from FA or wherever.
Quote:
the only viable weapons this offense has. Many (understandably) give Jones a pass for struggling under a new offense, but why don't the receivers get the same benefit? The example the OP referenced seems to imply that EE ran the wrong route, but are we sure of that? Maybe DJ made the wrong read.
I get the frustrations with EE, but the lengths some will go, to the point where they're going to cut their most productive receiver? I'm glad some of you don't work in the front office.
Viable? He's been a liability for the reasons I've stated in the OP.
And he's injury prone because he only played in 16 games this past season.
Both were high round draft choices. Both were on the teams for years because "Engram (Moss) has potential. Engram (Moss) can be a huge weapon for us. Just give Engram (Moss) another year, and he'll become an impact all pro player. Engram (Moss) can stretch defenses. Etc, etc, etc."
Engram is still here for the same reason as Moss stuck around for years, despite poor route running and an inability to catch passes.
Why? Because NFL front offices rarely will cut bait with high draft choices...almost never with first rounders. If Engram was a 5th round choice, he would have been cut 2 years ago.
At this point, I agree that the team needs to get something for him, but I doubt that will happen. He'll be on the team this year, I think, and then he'll get cut after that. The hope probably is that some team will get a TE injury and will send a low round draft choice just to get a warm body, which is what Evan is at this point, unless he grows a new pair of hands.
IMO... a very different situation. Not that Moss was ever going to be a very good player, but we also did not use him effectively. I can recall that they only brought him in when we wanted to run a WR screen. It was like clockwork and if I was able to call the play, then so could the defense.
IMO... a very different situation. Not that Moss was ever going to be a very good player, but we also did not use him effectively. I can recall that they only brought him in when we wanted to run a WR screen. It was like clockwork and if I was able to call the play, then so could the defense.
I did camp reports from that period. The reason Moss was only used on WR screens was because he ran awful routes, and couldn't beat press coverage. You don't expect that from a second round choice.
The difference between him and Cruz (who was undrafted) was amazing. You could tell in camp that Cruz was going to be something special. That's what annoying about Engram, people keep talking about him as a threat, but when I see him, he does not break down coverage like a real threat.
Engram is all speed, but good DB's can cover receivers like that when the receiver only has speed without route running ability.
That's complete nonsense LOL
Both were high round draft choices. Both were on the teams for years because "Engram (Moss) has potential. Engram (Moss) can be a huge weapon for us. Just give Engram (Moss) another year, and he'll become an impact all pro player. Engram (Moss) can stretch defenses. Etc, etc, etc."
Engram is still here for the same reason as Moss stuck around for years, despite poor route running and an inability to catch passes.
Why? Because NFL front offices rarely will cut bait with high draft choices...almost never with first rounders. If Engram was a 5th round choice, he would have been cut 2 years ago.
At this point, I agree that the team needs to get something for him, but I doubt that will happen. He'll be on the team this year, I think, and then he'll get cut after that. The hope probably is that some team will get a TE injury and will send a low round draft choice just to get a warm body, which is what Evan is at this point, unless he grows a new pair of hands.
Evan Engram had more catches and yards each year than Moss had in his entire 4 year career. Sinorice Moss was a bust, a wasted pick. Evan Engram was overdrafted, but has still been productive when he's been able to stay healthy. They aren't remotely comparable.
All good points, but Engram just seems to be one of those players who can be counted on to be a liability at just the wrong time. Maybe they can depend on him to help move the chains or make somewhat of a big play when the score is relatively close early in the game, but you can be nearly 100 percent certain taht at some point, involving him in a play is going to backfire.
From the time he was drafted the Giants have tried to make him an inline blocker and a traditional TE when he's not that. Three difference coaching staffs have tried it at this point.
Both were high round draft choices. Both were on the teams for years because "Engram (Moss) has potential. Engram (Moss) can be a huge weapon for us. Just give Engram (Moss) another year, and he'll become an impact all pro player. Engram (Moss) can stretch defenses. Etc, etc, etc."
Engram is still here for the same reason as Moss stuck around for years, despite poor route running and an inability to catch passes.
Why? Because NFL front offices rarely will cut bait with high draft choices...almost never with first rounders. If Engram was a 5th round choice, he would have been cut 2 years ago.
At this point, I agree that the team needs to get something for him, but I doubt that will happen. He'll be on the team this year, I think, and then he'll get cut after that. The hope probably is that some team will get a TE injury and will send a low round draft choice just to get a warm body, which is what Evan is at this point, unless he grows a new pair of hands.
Sinorice Moss Career: 39 catches 421 yds 3 TD's
Evan Engram Career: 216 catches 2420 yds 13 tds
Yup....same guy, no doubt about it.
lol, let's analyze every step he took on a route, a route where the receiver is reading the d-back and making adjustments, that ends up with a ball going off his fingertips that was catchable but not a sure thing. Let's talk about that for the millionth time and why the punishment should be getting cut.
He hasn't met expectations, but he's had flashes and made some big plays for this team.
Frustrating -yes, but he is a player defenses account for. This offense needs more of those
Quote:
All they have to do is teach him how to catch and block.
You do that, you have yourself a great TE
So how hasn’t he caught up on that in four years on the roster?
I’m sorry I thought my sarcasm was apparent
Like what exactly?
Only thing I can remember him doing out of his ordinary (being a bad player) and noticeable was the big touchdown run against Tampa Bay in 2019.
Other than that, eh.
Me either. I'm STILL waiting around for that big moment (while he's still in a Giants jersey) so I can be reassured that he was a first round pick.
He sucks, the worst kind of suck too where he tantalizes a bit so he sticks around to hurt the team.
He doesn't make tough catches, in fact he has the drops, that Eagle drop in the loss was brutal, just brutal. A perfect game sealing throw I could have caught.
He is no factor in the red zone, he does not play physical, he does not make tough grabs for first downs and he is no great shakes as a blocker.
What more does a fan need to see? Cut him loose.
There is one
The play he made in the Tampa game. DJs first start. He caught a short pass and took it to the house. But that’s the only play in his career that I remember
This one. The only one. - ( New Window )