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Why is Even Engram still a Giant?

Angel Eyes : 2/23/2021 10:14 am
So this is an offshoot of the "Why is Golden Tate still a Giant?" thread. Here, the question applies to Evan Engram.

In his four seasons, Engram has shown flashes of big-play ability but that hasn't equaled to consistent production or simply not being a liability to the Giants. First off, he's injury-prone, with 2020 being the first time he played all 16 games. Second, this year when he played all the games, he was a disappointment. To give a couple examples:

2/3s of the interceptions Daniel Jones threw this year were thrown at Engram, with at least some bouncing off his hands.

He dropped 10% of his passes, including a pass in Week 7 against the Eagles where, if he didn't run an in-route before cutting back outside, he would have had a better chance of catching a pass that would have made a first down and won the game for the Giants.

So what is it? Is there something in him that Judge and Garrett see that the fans do not on the field? Is it lack of an attractive trading partner? The fifth-year option? If the latter, why did we give him that? Could have done it for Tomlinson.

He's a liability to the Giants and not worth keeping at this stage.
Why is Golden Tate still a Giant? - ( New Window )
I get the frustration with Evan Engram...  
BamaBlue : 2/23/2021 10:22 am : link
however, there is a certain "Engram Derangement Syndrome" on display among Giants fans. Every year, there seems to be a target for the frustrations of another losing season. Once Engram is run out of town, who's the next scapegoat?
I'll Play  
Trainmaster : 2/23/2021 10:22 am : link
1) He's still under contract
2) The Giants haven't received any trade offers for him they consider to fairly compensate them for Engram
3) The new league year hasn't started yet
4) The franchise and transition tags, which give a window on potential free agents, can only be applied starting today
5) The NFL draft isn't until late April
6) ...

Yeah fuck Even Engram  
adamg : 2/23/2021 10:29 am : link
That guy is a piece of shit.
Because despite his faults, he is still one of  
Section331 : 2/23/2021 10:30 am : link
the only viable weapons this offense has. Many (understandably) give Jones a pass for struggling under a new offense, but why don't the receivers get the same benefit? The example the OP referenced seems to imply that EE ran the wrong route, but are we sure of that? Maybe DJ made the wrong read.

I get the frustrations with EE, but the lengths some will go, to the point where they're going to cut their most productive receiver? I'm glad some of you don't work in the front office.
yes there is something they see in him  
blueblood : 2/23/2021 10:31 am : link
that fans dont.. which is why he is still a Giant. Get over it and get over yourselves. this place is starting to get unbearable..
Very simple answer  
UGADawgs7 : 2/23/2021 10:32 am : link
There is 0 dead cap hit if they just cut him, but why would they do that now? If a team offered a 3 or 4th round pick, it might not happen until draft day. You don’t just release him. Even if a team would offer a 5th round pick, you don’t just release him. They also hadn’t even started FA yet knowing who they will get, or had the draft. They may keep him this year and let him go if he doesn’t drastically improve? No idea but just cutting him makes 0 sense.
love the never ending blood-letting  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/23/2021 10:33 am : link
over people's careers
Why does Agel Eyes post some of the dumbest  
BelieveJJ : 2/23/2021 10:40 am : link
Questions ever on BBI?

WHY can't he figure the answers out without help?

Fook if I know.
RE: Because despite his faults, he is still one of  
Angel Eyes : 2/23/2021 10:42 am : link
In comment 15159356 Section331 said:
Quote:
the only viable weapons this offense has. Many (understandably) give Jones a pass for struggling under a new offense, but why don't the receivers get the same benefit? The example the OP referenced seems to imply that EE ran the wrong route, but are we sure of that? Maybe DJ made the wrong read.

I get the frustrations with EE, but the lengths some will go, to the point where they're going to cut their most productive receiver? I'm glad some of you don't work in the front office.

Viable? He's been a liability for the reasons I've stated in the OP.

The footage shows that Engram tried to do a fake-out move on the defensive back before cutting back outside. He doesn't do that, he has a step or two more on the defensive back, catches the ball, game over.
RE: Why does Angel Eyes post some of the dumbest  
Angel Eyes : 2/23/2021 10:46 am : link
In comment 15159375 BelieveJJ said:
Quote:
Questions ever on BBI?

WHY can't he figure the answers out without help?

Fook if I know.

Do you know the answers any better than I do? This is what I'm gleaning from observing game footage and Engram's history. I'd rather you try and figure it out than personally attack me for asking questions.
cmon already  
djm : 2/23/2021 10:48 am : link
he led the team in receiving! Yes he had some bad plays but that doesn't mean the guy is < replacement level player. Engram is an above average receiving TE. This isn't larry Donnell. This isn't aaron pierce. I know he's a maddening player at times, but he is more than capable of 65-650 and 6 TDs. That's not a guy you just cut. You need to replace him first. Who the fuck is replacing that productivity here?

Engram is getting way too much blame and attn for this season's struggles.
and enough with this stupid and counter productive mentality  
djm : 2/23/2021 10:52 am : link
that blood must be spilled or messages must be sent. WTF is cutting Engram now going to accomplish? Nothing that's what.

Just wait shit out. Some of you and this need for punishment and sending messages....doesn't really work that way..
The breakout year is coming next year  
Dnew15 : 2/23/2021 10:57 am : link
mark it down.

Next year's offseason conversation of extending EE is going to be epic.
RE: RE: Because despite his faults, he is still one of  
Section331 : 2/23/2021 10:59 am : link
In comment 15159376 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:

Viable? He's been a liability for the reasons I've stated in the OP.

The footage shows that Engram tried to do a fake-out move on the defensive back before cutting back outside. He doesn't do that, he has a step or two more on the defensive back, catches the ball, game over.


You have no idea what the play design was, so you could be blaming a guy for running the right pattern. He was 2nd in catches, 3rd in yards and led the team in YAC. As I said, he's a flawed player, but he's still one of the few weapons we have. But yeah, let's cut him.

As I said, I'm glad you aren't in the front office.
And far be it from me to be an Engram defender.  
Section331 : 2/23/2021 11:03 am : link
I thought too many here overstated any early success he had, no more so than the big game he had in Jones's first start v TB. After that it was all Eli's fault, he didn't know how to utilize EE.

Now everyone is in a rush to get rid of him. If we can upgrade the position, great, let's do it, but the rush to get rid of him on a team that can't get out of its own way offensively is simply a bizarre obsession.
I'm sorry its all my fault  
rasbutant : 2/23/2021 11:08 am : link
Whenever I draft a NYG player in fantasy they always have a bad year. I've stopped drafting them but for some reason I just can't stop drafting Engram. I always wait on TE and he is just sitting there starring me in the face round after round until i finally break down and draft him. I promise not to do it this year, Okay.
The Cut Him Crowd  
BobA : 2/23/2021 11:10 am : link
needs to understand that when you cut/release a player such as EE, you need to replace him. That takes assets (either cap dollars or draft pick) which is needed more elsewhere. Plus there is no guarantee that what you replace him with is much better than what you have (warts and all).
RE: The Cut Him Crowd  
Jimmy Googs : 2/23/2021 11:16 am : link
In comment 15159412 BobA said:
Quote:
needs to understand that when you cut/release a player such as EE, you need to replace him. That takes assets (either cap dollars or draft pick) which is needed more elsewhere. Plus there is no guarantee that what you replace him with is much better than what you have (warts and all).


Is his salary guaranteed?
RE: Yeah fuck Even Engram  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 2/23/2021 11:25 am : link
In comment 15159353 adamg said:
Quote:
That guy is a piece of shit.


You have managed to insult shit with that comparison.
Engram is worth keeping on the roster  
cjac : 2/23/2021 11:30 am : link
All they have to do is teach him how to catch and block.

You do that, you have yourself a great TE
RE: The Cut Him Crowd  
Jimmy Googs : 2/23/2021 11:36 am : link
In comment 15159412 BobA said:
Quote:
needs to understand that when you cut/release a player such as EE, you need to replace him. That takes assets (either cap dollars or draft pick) which is needed more elsewhere. Plus there is no guarantee that what you replace him with is much better than what you have (warts and all).


Would think everybody knows the Giants would need another TE if they released him, don't you?

His $6M salary is not guaranteed until March 2021 so there would be a start in the money needed to find a replacement...
RE: Engram is worth keeping on the roster  
Angel Eyes : 2/23/2021 11:37 am : link
In comment 15159446 cjac said:
Quote:
All they have to do is teach him how to catch and block.

You do that, you have yourself a great TE

So how hasn’t he caught up on that in four years on the roster?
RE: RE: Engram is worth keeping on the roster  
Jimmy Googs : 2/23/2021 11:46 am : link
In comment 15159454 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15159446 cjac said:


Quote:


All they have to do is teach him how to catch and block.

You do that, you have yourself a great TE


So how hasn’t he caught up on that in four years on the roster?


Well, from what I understand he was considered a bit of a reach in the first round...
RE: And far be it from me to be an Engram defender.  
chick310 : 2/23/2021 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15159403 Section331 said:
Quote:
I thought too many here overstated any early success he had, no more so than the big game he had in Jones's first start v TB. After that it was all Eli's fault, he didn't know how to utilize EE.

Now everyone is in a rush to get rid of him. If we can upgrade the position, great, let's do it, but the rush to get rid of him on a team that can't get out of its own way offensively is simply a bizarre obsession.



Well, lets be fair this isn't some unfounded "rush" to judgment. This board had plenty of similar comments about Engram all season long last year as he continued to be at the center of turnovers and missed opportunities.

He was a significant reason the team couldn't get out of its own way offensively. So what's so bizarre?
Because you don't just cut players you are frustrated with  
Mike from Ohio : 2/23/2021 12:04 pm : link
When you have nobody to replace them.

It's not any harder than that.
RE: RE: And far be it from me to be an Engram defender.  
Section331 : 2/23/2021 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15159491 chick310 said:
Quote:

Well, lets be fair this isn't some unfounded "rush" to judgment. This board had plenty of similar comments about Engram all season long last year as he continued to be at the center of turnovers and missed opportunities.

He was a significant reason the team couldn't get out of its own way offensively. So what's so bizarre?


What is bizarre is calling to cut a guy who was one of your better offensive players. Upgrade the position, fine, but cutting him just so BBI feels better doesn't sound like a good business plan.
RE: RE: RE: Engram is worth keeping on the roster  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15159469 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15159454 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


In comment 15159446 cjac said:


Quote:


All they have to do is teach him how to catch and block.

You do that, you have yourself a great TE


So how hasn’t he caught up on that in four years on the roster?



Well, from what I understand he was considered a bit of a reach in the first round...


According to who? The 23rd pick in the first round isn't a reach.
RE: RE: RE: And far be it from me to be an Engram defender.  
chick310 : 2/23/2021 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15159504 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15159491 chick310 said:


Quote:



Well, lets be fair this isn't some unfounded "rush" to judgment. This board had plenty of similar comments about Engram all season long last year as he continued to be at the center of turnovers and missed opportunities.

He was a significant reason the team couldn't get out of its own way offensively. So what's so bizarre?



What is bizarre is calling to cut a guy who was one of your better offensive players. Upgrade the position, fine, but cutting him just so BBI feels better doesn't sound like a good business plan.


Presume the headline comment by most is "cut him" but they really mean replacing him with someone else from FA or wherever.
......  
Route 9 : 2/23/2021 12:12 pm : link
On this team we have to keep players for 3 or 4 or even 5 years before they actually show their true "upside."
RE: RE: Because despite his faults, he is still one of  
BMac : 2/23/2021 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15159376 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15159356 Section331 said:


Quote:


the only viable weapons this offense has. Many (understandably) give Jones a pass for struggling under a new offense, but why don't the receivers get the same benefit? The example the OP referenced seems to imply that EE ran the wrong route, but are we sure of that? Maybe DJ made the wrong read.

I get the frustrations with EE, but the lengths some will go, to the point where they're going to cut their most productive receiver? I'm glad some of you don't work in the front office.


Viable? He's been a liability for the reasons I've stated in the OP.


And he's injury prone because he only played in 16 games this past season.
Shitty roster  
Thegratefulhead : 2/23/2021 12:33 pm : link
Really, our roster lacks depth. The fact that we were competing for a division title late in the season has left some people on this board with unjust expectations for 2021. We have no depth and we were really healthy last year. Someone is going to chuck Barkley in my teeth but it was a running back. The rest of our division was murdered by injury and discord.
We have a number of other TEs on the roster  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/23/2021 12:44 pm : link
and none of them have been able to take his job...
Evan Engram is the 2021 version  
JohnF : 2/23/2021 12:47 pm : link
of Sinorice Moss, who was another player BBI was infatuated with. The discussions now are almost identical to BBI from 2006-2010.

Both were high round draft choices. Both were on the teams for years because "Engram (Moss) has potential. Engram (Moss) can be a huge weapon for us. Just give Engram (Moss) another year, and he'll become an impact all pro player. Engram (Moss) can stretch defenses. Etc, etc, etc."

Engram is still here for the same reason as Moss stuck around for years, despite poor route running and an inability to catch passes.

Why? Because NFL front offices rarely will cut bait with high draft choices...almost never with first rounders. If Engram was a 5th round choice, he would have been cut 2 years ago.

At this point, I agree that the team needs to get something for him, but I doubt that will happen. He'll be on the team this year, I think, and then he'll get cut after that. The hope probably is that some team will get a TE injury and will send a low round draft choice just to get a warm body, which is what Evan is at this point, unless he grows a new pair of hands.

RE: Evan Engram is the 2021 version  
EricJ : 2/23/2021 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15159563 JohnF said:
Quote:
of Sinorice Moss, who was another player BBI was infatuated with. The discussions now are almost identical to BBI from 2006-2010.


IMO... a very different situation. Not that Moss was ever going to be a very good player, but we also did not use him effectively. I can recall that they only brought him in when we wanted to run a WR screen. It was like clockwork and if I was able to call the play, then so could the defense.
RE: RE: Evan Engram is the 2021 version  
JohnF : 2/23/2021 1:13 pm : link
Quote:
In comment 15159570 EricJ said:
IMO... a very different situation. Not that Moss was ever going to be a very good player, but we also did not use him effectively. I can recall that they only brought him in when we wanted to run a WR screen. It was like clockwork and if I was able to call the play, then so could the defense.

I did camp reports from that period. The reason Moss was only used on WR screens was because he ran awful routes, and couldn't beat press coverage. You don't expect that from a second round choice.

The difference between him and Cruz (who was undrafted) was amazing. You could tell in camp that Cruz was going to be something special. That's what annoying about Engram, people keep talking about him as a threat, but when I see him, he does not break down coverage like a real threat.

Engram is all speed, but good DB's can cover receivers like that when the receiver only has speed without route running ability.
RE: Evan Engram is the 2021 version  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 1:21 pm : link
In comment 15159563 JohnF said:
Quote:
of Sinorice Moss, who was another player BBI was infatuated with.


That's complete nonsense LOL
RE: Evan Engram is the 2021 version  
Section331 : 2/23/2021 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15159563 JohnF said:
Quote:
of Sinorice Moss, who was another player BBI was infatuated with. The discussions now are almost identical to BBI from 2006-2010.

Both were high round draft choices. Both were on the teams for years because "Engram (Moss) has potential. Engram (Moss) can be a huge weapon for us. Just give Engram (Moss) another year, and he'll become an impact all pro player. Engram (Moss) can stretch defenses. Etc, etc, etc."

Engram is still here for the same reason as Moss stuck around for years, despite poor route running and an inability to catch passes.

Why? Because NFL front offices rarely will cut bait with high draft choices...almost never with first rounders. If Engram was a 5th round choice, he would have been cut 2 years ago.

At this point, I agree that the team needs to get something for him, but I doubt that will happen. He'll be on the team this year, I think, and then he'll get cut after that. The hope probably is that some team will get a TE injury and will send a low round draft choice just to get a warm body, which is what Evan is at this point, unless he grows a new pair of hands.


Evan Engram had more catches and yards each year than Moss had in his entire 4 year career. Sinorice Moss was a bust, a wasted pick. Evan Engram was overdrafted, but has still been productive when he's been able to stay healthy. They aren't remotely comparable.
RE: Because despite his faults, he is still one of  
santacruzom : 2/23/2021 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15159356 Section331 said:
Quote:
the only viable weapons this offense has. Many (understandably) give Jones a pass for struggling under a new offense, but why don't the receivers get the same benefit? The example the OP referenced seems to imply that EE ran the wrong route, but are we sure of that? Maybe DJ made the wrong read.


All good points, but Engram just seems to be one of those players who can be counted on to be a liability at just the wrong time. Maybe they can depend on him to help move the chains or make somewhat of a big play when the score is relatively close early in the game, but you can be nearly 100 percent certain taht at some point, involving him in a play is going to backfire.
Part of this lies in not recognizing that he's a specialist  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 2:01 pm : link
type of player. He's not a 5-10 yard safety valve for a QB type of player who outmuscles linebackers and takes big hits. Where he has his biggest success is in the open field and down the field. Those are the players that stand out when you look at his college games.

From the time he was drafted the Giants have tried to make him an inline blocker and a traditional TE when he's not that. Three difference coaching staffs have tried it at this point.
RE: Evan Engram is the 2021 version  
John In CO : 2/23/2021 2:04 pm : link
In comment 15159563 JohnF said:
Quote:
of Sinorice Moss, who was another player BBI was infatuated with. The discussions now are almost identical to BBI from 2006-2010.

Both were high round draft choices. Both were on the teams for years because "Engram (Moss) has potential. Engram (Moss) can be a huge weapon for us. Just give Engram (Moss) another year, and he'll become an impact all pro player. Engram (Moss) can stretch defenses. Etc, etc, etc."

Engram is still here for the same reason as Moss stuck around for years, despite poor route running and an inability to catch passes.

Why? Because NFL front offices rarely will cut bait with high draft choices...almost never with first rounders. If Engram was a 5th round choice, he would have been cut 2 years ago.

At this point, I agree that the team needs to get something for him, but I doubt that will happen. He'll be on the team this year, I think, and then he'll get cut after that. The hope probably is that some team will get a TE injury and will send a low round draft choice just to get a warm body, which is what Evan is at this point, unless he grows a new pair of hands.


Sinorice Moss Career: 39 catches 421 yds 3 TD's
Evan Engram Career: 216 catches 2420 yds 13 tds

Yup....same guy, no doubt about it.
Because it's February 23rd  
Saquads26 : 2/23/2021 2:05 pm : link
.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/23/2021 2:06 pm : link
memories aren't always that good around here!
The Engram hating here is so over the top.  
SirYesSir : 2/23/2021 2:24 pm : link
"He dropped 10% of his passes, including a pass in Week 7 against the Eagles where, if he didn't run an in-route before cutting back outside, he would have had a better chance of catching a pass that would have made a first down and won the game for the Giants"

lol, let's analyze every step he took on a route, a route where the receiver is reading the d-back and making adjustments, that ends up with a ball going off his fingertips that was catchable but not a sure thing. Let's talk about that for the millionth time and why the punishment should be getting cut.

He hasn't met expectations, but he's had flashes and made some big plays for this team.
He is the most frustrating player I have ever seen  
weeg in the bronx : 2/23/2021 2:28 pm : link
So much talent, so many bone head plays. Not just the drops either. And by all accounts I've read he's a good locker rooms guy, making it even worse.
Engram  
stretch234 : 2/23/2021 2:49 pm : link
If he was not on the offense in pass routes, defenses could play no safeties and defend this offense. He was the only guy defenses worried about in the passing game

Frustrating -yes, but he is a player defenses account for. This offense needs more of those
Even Ingram?  
manh george : 2/23/2021 3:02 pm : link
Your question is odd.
RE: Yeah fuck Even Engram  
ATL_Giants : 2/23/2021 4:09 pm : link
In comment 15159353 adamg said:
Quote:
That guy is a piece of shit.
made me laugh
Not a fan of EE  
TommyWiseau : 2/23/2021 5:07 pm : link
but where are you going to find his production for cheaper then his 6 million dollar 1 year deal? You won't.
He needs to have 500 balls  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/23/2021 5:43 pm : link
a day shot from the jugs gun at his eyes. Balls up in that area are a huge problem for him.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/23/2021 7:05 pm : link
EE does enough to tantalize hope he'll be a huge weapon, but then will knee you in the groin 5 seconds after you think that. As I've stated ad nauseum, I can't wait till he's an ex Giant. You don't win anything with EE.
RE: RE: Engram is worth keeping on the roster  
cjac : 2/23/2021 8:38 pm : link
In comment 15159454 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15159446 cjac said:


Quote:


All they have to do is teach him how to catch and block.

You do that, you have yourself a great TE


So how hasn’t he caught up on that in four years on the roster?



I’m sorry I thought my sarcasm was apparent
I am still trying to recall  
kdog77 : 2/23/2021 11:36 pm : link
a big play by Evan Engram that was not a turnover or dropped pass. I can recall lots of actual big plays from Saquon, OBJ, Cruz, Nicks, Shockey and Plax. Coming up with nothing on EE. The guy is a mediocre WR. That's it, a JAG. Sooner Giants realize it, the sooner we can all move on with our lives. Busted pick.
RE: ...  
Route 9 : 2/24/2021 12:50 am : link
In comment 15159924 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
EE does enough to tantalize hope he'll be a huge weapon


Like what exactly?

Only thing I can remember him doing out of his ordinary (being a bad player) and noticeable was the big touchdown run against Tampa Bay in 2019.

Other than that, eh.
RE: I am still trying to recall  
Route 9 : 2/24/2021 12:53 am : link
In comment 15160198 kdog77 said:
Quote:
a big play by Evan Engram that was not a turnover or dropped pass. I can recall lots of actual big plays from Saquon, OBJ, Cruz, Nicks, Shockey and Plax. Coming up with nothing on EE. The guy is a mediocre WR. That's it, a JAG. Sooner Giants realize it, the sooner we can all move on with our lives. Busted pick.


Me either. I'm STILL waiting around for that big moment (while he's still in a Giants jersey) so I can be reassured that he was a first round pick.
RE: I get the frustration with Evan Engram...  
rocco8112 : 2/24/2021 2:47 pm : link
In comment 15159347 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
however, there is a certain "Engram Derangement Syndrome" on display among Giants fans. Every year, there seems to be a target for the frustrations of another losing season. Once Engram is run out of town, who's the next scapegoat?


He sucks, the worst kind of suck too where he tantalizes a bit so he sticks around to hurt the team.

He doesn't make tough catches, in fact he has the drops, that Eagle drop in the loss was brutal, just brutal. A perfect game sealing throw I could have caught.

He is no factor in the red zone, he does not play physical, he does not make tough grabs for first downs and he is no great shakes as a blocker.

What more does a fan need to see? Cut him loose.
RE: I am still trying to recall  
cjac : 2/24/2021 11:01 pm : link
In comment 15160198 kdog77 said:
Quote:
a big play by Evan Engram that was not a turnover or dropped pass. I can recall lots of actual big plays from Saquon, OBJ, Cruz, Nicks, Shockey and Plax. Coming up with nothing on EE. The guy is a mediocre WR. That's it, a JAG. Sooner Giants realize it, the sooner we can all move on with our lives. Busted pick.


There is one

The play he made in the Tampa game. DJs first start. He caught a short pass and took it to the house. But that’s the only play in his career that I remember
This one. The only one. - ( New Window )
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