I just hate his game & how the officials treat him like he's Jordan circa '97 with how he's officiated. Whenever I watch Atlanta, he's getting calls that someone like LeBron didn't get until the mid 2010s. It's absurd.
Yeah, it'd be nice to have a C who could stretch the floor a bit and not bobble every time the ball comes to him. But I think we need a PG and a lethal shooter more.
Yeah, it'd be nice to have a C who could stretch the floor a bit and not bobble every time the ball comes to him. But I think we need a PG and a lethal shooter more.
in Game 5 of the '16 Finals. He doesn't do that, Warriors win that series & KD doesn't end up in Oakland. Totally changes the last 5 years of NBA history.
in Game 5 of the '16 Finals. He doesn't do that, Warriors win that series & KD doesn't end up in Oakland. Totally changes the last 5 years of NBA history.
I still think he goes to Golden State, Dursnt is that big of a bitch
Don't sleep on the Maple Mamba. I like his make up. I think he's got a winning mentality that you can't teach.
It's so funny you would have all traded Beal in year 2.
Barrett has just played 87 games with the covid shortened season.
He doesn't have to be Beal but a top 2 or 3 piece on a good team.
Trading the farm for Beal instead of adding talent through FA and the draft is not smart right now.
It's so funny you would have all traded Beal in year 2.
Trade Beal in year two for whom? A 27-year-old All-Star who was leading the league in scoring at the time? I probably would’ve done that. Nobody’s trading RJ just to trade him.
Don't sleep on the Maple Mamba. I like his make up. I think he's got a winning mentality that you can't teach.
It's so funny you would have all traded Beal in year 2.
Barrett has just played 87 games with the covid shortened season.
He doesn't have to be Beal but a top 2 or 3 piece on a good team.
Trading the farm for Beal instead of adding talent through FA and the draft is not smart right now.
still are without another elite scoring threat. It’s fun to see them play hard and be able to compete almost every night, but outside of Randle that was some pathetic offense in the 2nd half
About frank, but why not play frank over bullock? What are we getting out of bullock? What’s the point of playing him he does nothing for this team. We aren’t winning a championship thisbyear. Thibs refuses to send frank to d league and says he likes frank here, why not just make the switch.
still are without another elite scoring threat. It’s fun to see them play hard and be able to compete almost every night, but outside of Randle that was some pathetic offense in the 2nd half
Agree. We're not going to get another Curry but we need a serious 3 point shooter. We also need Mitch back IMO. Noel and Taj - I don't dislike them as players but they are both backups, not starters.
Refs swallowed their whistle when the Knicks went to the hoop
and as soon as it got ubder 2 minutes and Knicks played physical defense they decided to call 2 ticky tack calls...The oubre play was a terrible call he was going nowhere and the refs bailed him out...
That is why we need a Beal or lavine to compliment Randle. We need a guard or wing that can get a bucket at the end of the game and we don’t have one. Barrett thinks he is Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, you can start to see frustrated body language with some of his teammates. He keeps forcing horrible shots in the lane.
I know the smart move is to stay patient because this team we all though was a 15 win team, but if they had a Beal or lavine. They are competing with sny team in the East besides the nets.
RE: Quickley’s role and minutes are starting to take a hit, as feared.
he just barrels into the lane and forces up often awful shots
I’ll allow for him still being young and learning, but he was a net negative for us out there in the 4th tonight. And several other guys missed layups or shots within ten feet that could have made a difference
That is why we need a Beal or lavine to compliment Randle. We need a guard or wing that can get a bucket at the end of the game and we don’t have one. Barrett thinks he is Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, you can start to see frustrated body language with some of his teammates. He keeps forcing horrible shots in the lane.
I know the smart move is to stay patient because this team we all though was a 15 win team, but if they had a Beal or lavine. They are competing with sny team in the East besides the nets.
The play where Golden State reviewed was absolutely terrible, he drove into 3 guys with no one back with him..
Then he had a 3 on 1 and forced the shot and got fouled, could of had an easy 2
RE: Yup, Barrett has zero body control when he drives
he just barrels into the lane and forces up often awful shots
I’ll allow for him still being young and learning, but he was a net negative for us out there in the 4th tonight. And several other guys missed layups or shots within ten feet that could have made a difference
He is Randle last year
RE: RE: Yup, Barrett has zero body control when he drives
he just barrels into the lane and forces up often awful shots
I’ll allow for him still being young and learning, but he was a net negative for us out there in the 4th tonight. And several other guys missed layups or shots within ten feet that could have made a difference
He is Randle last year
Randle last year turned into Randle this year. Which is why I'd be patient with RJB. Not saying he's untouchable in a trade though.
RE: RE: RE: Yup, Barrett has zero body control when he drives
he just barrels into the lane and forces up often awful shots
I’ll allow for him still being young and learning, but he was a net negative for us out there in the 4th tonight. And several other guys missed layups or shots within ten feet that could have made a difference
He is Randle last year
Randle last year turned into Randle this year. Which is why I'd be patient with RJB. Not saying he's untouchable in a trade though.
but at least Randle last year could shoot a little bit
This team needs a PG and a sniper in the worst possible way
I know his shot has been off a bit, but he’s on his way to the Obi treatment unless he gets it going soon.
His shot us off a bit? He was awful the past 2 games and sat because of it. Rose was superb in the 1st half and played more because of it. This isn't high school ball. I love Quick but if you're a rookie and you stink up the joint you're minutes will be cut especially when your team is fighting for a playoff spot.
But the rookie status should have little to do with it if it’s all about playoffs. Give RJ, Burks and Bullock the same quick hook when they suck, which is two out of every three games.
But the rookie status should have little to do with it if it’s all about playoffs. Give RJ, Burks and Bullock the same quick hook when they suck, which is two out of every three games.
Burks at least hit a couple of 3's to get them back in it in the 3rd, Bullock only played 18 minutes and RJ's minutes have been cut at times. Quickley was horrible tonight and worse was passing on shooting with his lack of confidence. Soon as he hits a couple of shots and gets his confidence back the minutes will rise again.
"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
Still very young. I agree. But: If he has to go in a package to get a proven star scorer, I'll shed a little tear and move on in around 5 minutes.
The Knicks have made it to mediocre, which is about the worst thing you can be in the NBA. Not good enough to contend for a title, not bad enough to get lucky in the lottery. But at least they are mediocre with a bunch of assets to trade and no terrible contracts. That's an improvement.
But the rookie status should have little to do with it if it’s all about playoffs. Give RJ, Burks and Bullock the same quick hook when they suck, which is two out of every three games.
RJ has had his minutes cut this month as he's had strings of bad games.
Thibs isn't changing his philosophy. Are you just venting by pointing out that rookies are treated differently? He's a pretty old dog to be complaining that he's not learning a new trick.
a guy who at the end of games who can shoot and create his own shot..
Takes pressure off of Randle at the end of games and makes it harder for teams to double..
100% RJ can maybe be that some day? Maybe Quickley could be? They can't do it consistently now. But when those guys don't get it done, the Knicks are playing uphill. I have not been the biggest Lavine fan but if they had a guy like that, they win last night. We can't win games if Elfrid fucking Payton is taking 19 shots.
"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
He was awful defensively tonight..
Setting aside that I disagree that he was awful on defense last night, I humbly suggest you focus less on one night's performance and more on his overall development this year.
a guy who at the end of games who can shoot and create his own shot..
Takes pressure off of Randle at the end of games and makes it harder for teams to double..
100% RJ can maybe be that some day? Maybe Quickley could be? They can't do it consistently now. But when those guys don't get it done, the Knicks are playing uphill. I have not been the biggest Lavine fan but if they had a guy like that, they win last night. We can't win games if Elfrid fucking Payton is taking 19 shots.
The bummer is Payton played a pretty good defensive game against Steph. He still dropped 37 including a killer 3 and 3-point play late, bc Steph is that good, but Payton made him work hard for it.
But you're right, any time Payton is our second leading scorer and shot taker, our chances of pulling out a game like last night are slim
"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
He was awful defensively tonight..
Setting aside that I disagree that he was awful on defense last night, I humbly suggest you focus less on one night's performance and more on his overall development this year.
what does he do well? it is not just last night, his overally shot selection is horrible whether the ball goes in or not is irrelevant..his shooting is horrendous..
"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
He was awful defensively tonight..
Setting aside that I disagree that he was awful on defense last night, I humbly suggest you focus less on one night's performance and more on his overall development this year.
what does he do well? it is not just last night, his overally shot selection is horrible whether the ball goes in or not is irrelevant..his shooting is horrendous..
As I said in my previous comment, he's good at defense and rebounding.... He's shown plenty of good flashes on offense, the consistency will come.
Is not a good defender at this point. He gets beat backdoor way too often and is overall not a good help team defender. And he struggles to stay in front of his man at times. He's not terrible but he's just about average. He is a good rebounder for his position no question.
I'm not sure how you project him going forward. Will he ever be an above average shooter? And he really struggles to finish at the rim in traffic. He can be very indecisive- he shows flashes of playmaking but doesn't do that consistently. Unless you fully fit the team around him and let him handle the ball, how does he fit in on a good team when he can't space the floor?
I know its only 1 night, but he had 4 points last night. He should be the clear cut 2nd best player on this team and there are too many nights when he has very little impact.
a player can go 1 for 8 it happens, but it is the quality of shots rj takes, for example end of the first half he takes a crazy runner with 3 guys on him rather than kicking it oit to a wide open bullock
RJ was drawing fouls at a decent clip. This year his clumsy drives are just resulting in wild misses.
I think Thibs needs to shake up his rotation. The 5 man grouping of RJ, Randle, Reggie, Payton and a center is seemingly pretty lousy offensively. Randle can only prop it up so much.
Leading by 4 at halftime,the starters were lost offensively & defensively,continually going one on one w/o any success. Yet,Thibs kept them all in,until they were losing by double digits. I know he has a substitution pattern,but it was pretty obvious he needed to adjust it last night. And,despite their late attempt at a comeback,it really didn't need to get to that. I love what Thibs has done,but his inflexibility last night cost them!
that they are playing the game as if it were 10 years ago not as the league is playing now. Unless an NBA team can take 30-40 three points and hit them at a reasonable rate, they can't be a winning team.
Now, I understand why the Knicks have to play a different way as they really don't have any good three point shooters. Burks comes closest and when Quickley is on, he is effective. It's one reason why I still struggle with why they took Toppin instead of one of the sharp shooting guards still available.
Hopefully, management understands this and makes acquiring three-point shooters the priority this off-season and draft.
Tell me what RJB does well. shoot - nope, handle -nope, defense- nope, rebound? Ok I guess. Athletic - nope. Guess what he will be average at best.
He is a good passing 2-3 and a good rebounding 2-3 and he gets to the basket and finishes well. He's also a capable defender with room for growth.
You don't have to obliterate Barrett while keeping your mind open to a big time trade. He's 20 and averaging above average numbers. Of course he should be traded for a super star, but that doesn't mean he's garbage.
and I think it's an easy decision to be patient and wait for him to develop. He's been a plus player for most of the season, even when he's had bad stretches.
and I get wanting to win. Knicks have given us reasons to get into these games and want more. I get it. But pull back a little bit and look at things with a calming lens...lol.
We are 2 games under 500.
Young players like RJB, Quickley and Mitch have shown progress. No one is putting any of these kids in upper echelon but we'd take every player's progression in spades if we were offered this prior to game 1.
Randle has developed into a legit super star player. He's as good a PF as any in the game. His scoring efficiency is nothing short of excellent. His D is adequate. Rebounding is elite. And he's a good passing big.
Dallas pick looks to be at least middle of the road which we would all sign up for considering how we all felt they'd be a 50 win team this year. If it turns out to be a lotto pick, great, but even a pick in the teens will help the Knicks immensely.
Every young player on this team save for Frank and knox have progressed this year. Every single one. Meaning we now have legit trade chips and with Randle, legit building blocks. Rose and Thibs know WTF they are doing, especially Thibs. We are fine. We aren't going to make any desperate trades right now because we don't have to. If and when the right trade comes along, and it will, the Knicks will strike. The trade will likely cost a lot, probably more than what many here want to part with, but the bigger key will be that the Knicks will have room to operate after the trade. They will be able to add pieces unlike 2011.
We lost to a better team last night. Curry is a better player than any one on our team. Refs sucked. Oh well. We are still on pace for a 500 or so record. I am enjoying every second of this season because not only is this fun, the possibilities for the future are endless. I don't see an Al Bianchi or Donnie Walsh type fuck up or two on the horizon. I think Rose knows a lot more than we might think. This is a guy that has the pulse of the entire NBA at his fingertips.
I do think RJB will be one of the pieces moved. I also think Mitch could be dealt as well. The good thing is, these kids have established themselves as solid starters and the league has a hard on for cheap solid starters. Perhaps the Knicks won't have to trade away 5-6 chips for that star player, perhaps only 2-3...
"Every young player save for Frank and knox have progressed"
other than minutes played, Mitch's numbers are down in pretty much every meaningful stat. So basically that just leaves RJ - who's bad games are SO bad that he becomes basically unplayable.
In that sense the numbers don't tell the whole story. The fact that his MPG have increased is significant because his major flaw was constantly being in foul trouble and he HAS improved that.
In that sense the numbers don't tell the whole story. The fact that his MPG have increased is significant because his major flaw was constantly being in foul trouble and he HAS improved that.
not that we're a bunch of experts, but it's been pointed out by more than few posters here that he doesn't look like the same guy as last year. The stats tell the same story.
He has shown enough improvement this year to still be optimistic about his future. Is he a future multiple all star? Probably not, but he has shown flashes that at least make you think it is in the realm of possible out comes.
I'm not going to get on a 20 year old kid for poor decision making or shot selection. That is just something that comes with experience, and if you watch any young player in the league they all do stupid shit. Quickley and Obi Toppin have had more than their fair share this year and both of those guys are older than Barrett is.
Per 36 minutes he is averaging roughly 17-7-3, as a 20 year old with 88 career games played. The shooting still isn't where you want it to be, but it has improved and hopefully will continue to improve. His 3 point shooting was horrific over the first 5 games of the season (he finished December shooting 12.5% from 3), but he has shot MUCH better other than that and is shooting a much more respectable 35.5% from 3 in the 27 games since. He is a good rebounder for his position, he is a good passer for his size, and he has played above average defense this year.
Yeah it sucks that he isn't Zion or Ja (check out Ja's 3 point shooting % if you want to get on RJ about his), but that doesn't mean he isn't going to be a good player once he actually has time to develop.
In that sense the numbers don't tell the whole story. The fact that his MPG have increased is significant because his major flaw was constantly being in foul trouble and he HAS improved that.
not that we're a bunch of experts, but it's been pointed out by more than few posters here that he doesn't look like the same guy as last year. The stats tell the same story.
In what way? He was never a big offensive player to begin with, so I'm not sure what numbers really show his value. His blocks are down? In the past, he was chasing blocks trying to fill a stat-sheet, but that's not necessarily good defensive play.
other than minutes played, Mitch's numbers are down in pretty much every meaningful stat. So basically that just leaves RJ - who's bad games are SO bad that he becomes basically unplayable.
Mitch is a better player this year. He isn't fouling out every other game.
RE: RE: I don't think anyone believes Mitch has regressed this year
In that sense the numbers don't tell the whole story. The fact that his MPG have increased is significant because his major flaw was constantly being in foul trouble and he HAS improved that.
not that we're a bunch of experts, but it's been pointed out by more than few posters here that he doesn't look like the same guy as last year. The stats tell the same story.
That I agree with but I think his value around the league has gone up, even if just slightly.
being on Realgm when Jamal Crawford sister would post in the Knick's forum. Even she wasn't so laser focused on one player as you guys are.
It's hyper focused on minutes played and rotations and every loss. I felt compelled to post a feel good tirade because most threads are so negative. Fuck man I am enjoying the hell out of this. Even the losses.
The stress of stupid unrealistic expectations will come soon enough for now I am enjoying this.
a star player will cost us 2 young players that showed something, and RJB and Mitch most definitely have, and 2-3 picks. We can do that and still thrive in my view. Just don't know what player springs free over the next 12 months or less.
RE: RE: RE: I don't think anyone believes Mitch has regressed this year
In that sense the numbers don't tell the whole story. The fact that his MPG have increased is significant because his major flaw was constantly being in foul trouble and he HAS improved that.
not that we're a bunch of experts, but it's been pointed out by more than few posters here that he doesn't look like the same guy as last year. The stats tell the same story.
In what way? He was never a big offensive player to begin with, so I'm not sure what numbers really show his value. His blocks are down? In the past, he was chasing blocks trying to fill a stat-sheet, but that's not necessarily good defensive play.
A 6.0 drop in PER is significant - no matter how you slice it. PER is not the best stat in the world, but I think it's a pretty good measure of a player's general activity/production. Getting more specific, his biggest (or only) strength on offense was his ability to finish around the rim. He went from being dominant in that area to just ok.
But after Randle (and Robinson hurt), the next 5 players IQ, Rose, O Top, Burks and Noel are bench players. That means your other 3 starters are not getting it done RJ, PAyton & Bullock. Something has to give.
being on Realgm when Jamal Crawford sister would post in the Knick's forum. Even she wasn't so laser focused on one player as you guys are.
It's hyper focused on minutes played and rotations and every loss. I felt compelled to post a feel good tirade because most threads are so negative. Fuck man I am enjoying the hell out of this. Even the losses.
The stress of stupid unrealistic expectations will come soon enough for now I am enjoying this.
but every young player when they are developing needs that trait that is going to propel them, Rj doesnt have that..
even the other young players on the team, you see the trait that they excel at, Quickley with his shooting, ability to draw fouls...Mitch shot blocking and rim running..Toppin his athleticism..
Now is it a guarantee those players become anything? no but you see the trait that can be the thing that propels them..
Rj doesnt have that 1 trait that he excels at, now do i want to trade him for a bag of balls? no but i dont see the trait that one can say thats why hr is going to develop
is it highly overvalues players who can be effective at accumulating stats in short stretches. Mitch used to be able to do that but not stay on the court because he was fouling too much. Now he's playing solid defense and fouling less but at the expense of some stats like blocks/minute. One would expect his PER to decrease based on our desire (and the results) for him to foul less.
is it highly overvalues players who can be effective at accumulating stats in short stretches. Mitch used to be able to do that but not stay on the court because he was fouling too much. Now he's playing solid defense and fouling less but at the expense of some stats like blocks/minute. One would expect his PER to decrease based on our desire (and the results) for him to foul less.
it's obviously just not PER. He's also down in TS% and RB%. Also, the TOV% is up while his usage is down.
Anecdotally, it seems like a combination of diminished athleticism, bad hands, and overall lack of instincts.
Forget last year, his shooting percentages around the hoop are down from his rookie year.
It would cost us nothing in terms of assets or even much cap space. We could use his low post presence on offense for 15-20 minutes a night. Even when Mitch is healthy our bigs present no offensive threat except rolling to the hoop for a dunk. Collectively they probably have the worst hands in the NBA.
1 way it makes sense is if you are trading Mitch in a bigger deal for a star wing..
Drummond is a beast down low and with randle play well on the perimiter it could work..
Austin Rivers says hr has heard rumors of him being traded
I would make that deal for Drummond in a heart beat. We can use the rest of the season as an evaluation period, but boy do we need paint points from our front court. He can actually catch the ball, has a little shooting touch, would allow Randle to use his perimeter and off the dribble game more effectively, would be HUGE for our driving PGs as a dump option and is another double double every night. I would be against it if it meant losing 1st+, but this guy frees up a lot of space on the perimeter.
Who are we getting paint points from now other than Payton and Randle?
"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
He was awful defensively tonight..
Setting aside that I disagree that he was awful on defense last night, I humbly suggest you focus less on one night's performance and more on his overall development this year.
what does he do well? it is not just last night, his overally shot selection is horrible whether the ball goes in or not is irrelevant..his shooting is horrendous..
As I said in my previous comment, he's good at defense and rebounding.... He's shown plenty of good flashes on offense, the consistency will come.
He is NOT a good defender off the ball. He is OK on the ball, but he still gets beaten badly once a game.
I can literally point out 3 different plays based on memory from last nightwhere he made a terrible decision that cost the Knicks points last night.
people will sign with contenders. I don't know who's going to give up real assets for Drummond. His contract's a monster so matching salary for him would be hard I think.
I don't know that I think any team will be able to do it, which is why I think he'll be bought out in the end.
RE: Honestly I'd rather take a flyer on Cousins right now
It would cost us nothing in terms of assets or even much cap space. We could use his low post presence on offense for 15-20 minutes a night. Even when Mitch is healthy our bigs present no offensive threat except rolling to the hoop for a dunk. Collectively they probably have the worst hands in the NBA.
I admittedly haven't watched much of the Rockets this year but Cousins shot 37% from the field so far this year. That's pretty awful to say the least.
Drummond helps our main weaknesses. Also, he's a free agent in a few months so what's the point? We become a slightly tougher out in the first round then we would have been without him?
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
Drummond helps our main weaknesses. Also, he's a free agent in a few months so what's the point? We become a slightly tougher out in the first round then we would have been without him?
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
Well, I love Mitch, and dont want him traded. That said, in my opinion, he is not a front line Center yet. He has a terrible offensive game aside from the occasional oop or offensive rebound. Drummond is not going to command the same contract he previosly got and giving up a 2nd and Rivers/Frank is basically getting him for what we gave up for Rose. He is the same age as Randle and they can both be part of the solution going forward.
But we arent going to beat anybody without somewhat of a post presence from our C. He wouldve done wonders last night.
Drummond helps our main weaknesses. Also, he's a free agent in a few months so what's the point? We become a slightly tougher out in the first round then we would have been without him?
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
Quickley will be fine, he plays the most 4th quarter minutes on the team, past 3 games he has been lff game before that hr played 25 minutes and closed out the game..
Frank and Knox suck, Knox had his chance and blew it, It is telling that a defensive coach wants nothing to do with frank
RE: RE: Honestly I'd rather take a flyer on Cousins right now
It would cost us nothing in terms of assets or even much cap space. We could use his low post presence on offense for 15-20 minutes a night. Even when Mitch is healthy our bigs present no offensive threat except rolling to the hoop for a dunk. Collectively they probably have the worst hands in the NBA.
I admittedly haven't watched much of the Rockets this year but Cousins shot 37% from the field so far this year. That's pretty awful to say the least.
Houston is a mess right now. No spacing. Wall has been ok, but he looks for his shot more than anything else. Oladipo's %'s have plummeted there compared to Indiana. Why not take a flyer on Cousins? He can definitely score in the low post.
RE: RE: RE: Honestly I'd rather take a flyer on Cousins right now
It would cost us nothing in terms of assets or even much cap space. We could use his low post presence on offense for 15-20 minutes a night. Even when Mitch is healthy our bigs present no offensive threat except rolling to the hoop for a dunk. Collectively they probably have the worst hands in the NBA.
I admittedly haven't watched much of the Rockets this year but Cousins shot 37% from the field so far this year. That's pretty awful to say the least.
Houston is a mess right now. No spacing. Wall has been ok, but he looks for his shot more than anything else. Oladipo's %'s have plummeted there compared to Indiana. Why not take a flyer on Cousins? He can definitely score in the low post.
He cant move and has been a siv on defense, his body has really broken down, he is going for maybe 15 minutes a night
Drummond helps our main weaknesses. Also, he's a free agent in a few months so what's the point? We become a slightly tougher out in the first round then we would have been without him?
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
Quickley will be fine, he plays the most 4th quarter minutes on the team, past 3 games he has been lff game before that hr played 25 minutes and closed out the game..
Frank and Knox suck, Knox had his chance and blew it, It is telling that a defensive coach wants nothing to do with frank
that's a hell of a "chance" Knox was given, lol. No reason both him and Frank can't at least be in the g-league getting reps. Also, Obi has played more than 15 mins in a game exactly three times this season. Yes, we're more competitive, but we're not close to being an actual winning team. What serves the team better in the long run?
Drummond helps our main weaknesses. Also, he's a free agent in a few months so what's the point? We become a slightly tougher out in the first round then we would have been without him?
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
Quickley will be fine, he plays the most 4th quarter minutes on the team, past 3 games he has been lff game before that hr played 25 minutes and closed out the game..
Frank and Knox suck, Knox had his chance and blew it, It is telling that a defensive coach wants nothing to do with frank
that's a hell of a "chance" Knox was given, lol. No reason both him and Frank can't at least be in the g-league getting reps. Also, Obi has played more than 15 mins in a game exactly three times this season. Yes, we're more competitive, but we're not close to being an actual winning team. What serves the team better in the long run?
that i agree with send them to the g league..
Who is he playing over? i wouldnt mind a little small ball
I want bullock traded and Frank and knox getting minutes. I’m the only one, but I stand by this. What does Bullock do that’s a positive for this team?
Presumably shooting and floor spacing, but he's not elite at it.
For me, I'm happy to ride out this year, let the kids develop more, and see if we can't turn this better than expected season into a FA or offseason trade win. T
I feel like in years past no one wanted to come to NY because they didn't want to have the burden of turning it around by themselves. In the past there's been no prospects and the needle has always pointed down. But this year there's a lot of reasons for optimism.
I can see that working in our favor with stars asking to be traded, or FAs we normally wouldn't have landed.
pick a vet who's a free agent in 4 months - could be anyone. Give Randle/Obi 10-15 mins as your only bigs and see if the drop-off on defense is worth the boost you get on offense.
I hope Rose takes the long view and sells off some spare parts at the deadline, but I'll believe it when I see it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Honestly I'd rather take a flyer on Cousins right now
It would cost us nothing in terms of assets or even much cap space. We could use his low post presence on offense for 15-20 minutes a night. Even when Mitch is healthy our bigs present no offensive threat except rolling to the hoop for a dunk. Collectively they probably have the worst hands in the NBA.
I admittedly haven't watched much of the Rockets this year but Cousins shot 37% from the field so far this year. That's pretty awful to say the least.
Houston is a mess right now. No spacing. Wall has been ok, but he looks for his shot more than anything else. Oladipo's %'s have plummeted there compared to Indiana. Why not take a flyer on Cousins? He can definitely score in the low post.
He cant move and has been a siv on defense, his body has really broken down, he is going for maybe 15 minutes a night
Its worse than that, he is averaging like 10 pts and hes been getting 20 mins per game....that was according to Hahn last night.
Drummond instantly gives us a secondary scorer. I dunno if you guys were watching last night, but unless it was Randle or Payton, none of our starters were scoring. We are at the bottom of the league on offense and that is largely because we rely so heavily on our perimeter game while we are limited on shooters.
pick a vet who's a free agent in 4 months - could be anyone. Give Randle/Obi 10-15 mins as your only bigs and see if the drop-off on defense is worth the boost you get on offense.
I hope Rose takes the long view and sells off some spare parts at the deadline, but I'll believe it when I see it.
they are not selling off we both know that, rose and Thibs are going to try and make the playoffs and then build with their cap space and 5 1sts in 3 yesrs
Lets look at it assuming we dont work out a reasonable extension with Drummond and he IS just a rental. I would gladly take a double double machine who can help us make a playoff push more exciting for a player who never plays and a 2nd roumder. You combine that with maybe coupling him with Randle going forward (for less than what he got before) and fuck yes I make that deal.
Anyone else stream the games on GamePass and find it very blurry?
that others addressed, I know it's not the end of the world. He's in a bit of slump so Thibs is looking elsewhere, no big deal. My only issue is that Quickley needs to score almost a point per minute to maintain his 20-25 minutes of playing time, and barely gets 10 minutes if he doesn't light it up instantly. That's asking a lot of any player. I wonder if we'd get a more consistent, confident player if he knew his 25 minutes were locked in like RJ, Burks, Bullock, Payton, Rose, etc. I'm bracing myself for an Austin Rivers cameo if IQ doesn't snap out of it soon.
RE: RE: I can't imagine a more polar opposite to what they need than Drummond
He wouldn't hurt that's for sure. And like NY16 said, it allows you to trade Mitch.
I also dont understand the original comment by TTH, no offense. We are completely bereft of scoring in the low post. Adding him doesnt necessarily mean we are moving on from Mitch, it also means we dont have to keep playing Randle as much as we do. If we have the cap room and the price is low in terms of players and picks, why the hell not?
that others addressed, I know it's not the end of the world. He's in a bit of slump so Thibs is looking elsewhere, no big deal. My only issue is that Quickley needs to score almost a point per minute to maintain his 20-25 minutes of playing time, and barely gets 10 minutes if he doesn't light it up instantly. That's asking a lot of any player. I wonder if we'd get a more consistent, confident player if he knew his 25 minutes were locked in like RJ, Burks, Bullock, Payton, Rose, etc. I'm bracing myself for an Austin Rivers cameo if IQ doesn't snap out of it soon.
Well Quickley is going to get more minutes tomorrow, Payton is doubtful
Irving pushing on Instagram to change the NBA logo from West to Kobe. I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but come on...we just can't turn a blind eye to Golden, CO. If you're going to change the logo to 'black kings', do Kareem, Magic, MJ, or whoever.
Irving pushing on Instagram to change the NBA logo from West to Kobe. I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but come on...we just can't turn a blind eye to Golden, CO. If you're going to change the logo to 'black kings', do Kareem, Magic, MJ, or whoever.
i would be ok if they did an alternate logo on their alternate jerseys or on the all star jerseys..
RE: RE: RE: I can't imagine a more polar opposite to what they need than Drummond
He wouldn't hurt that's for sure. And like NY16 said, it allows you to trade Mitch.
I also dont understand the original comment by TTH, no offense. We are completely bereft of scoring in the low post. Adding him doesnt necessarily mean we are moving on from Mitch, it also means we dont have to keep playing Randle as much as we do. If we have the cap room and the price is low in terms of players and picks, why the hell not?
It's completely the opposite of what this coach wants to do. He's not going to sacrifice defense for scoring to that extreme. The whole defensive philosophy is shut down the paint and make teams shoot from range.
From Dallas. Only in his third year, a pretty good shooter and good court vision. I’d happily give up Payton, Frank, Rivers and the Detroit 2nd round pick for Brunson.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I can't imagine a more polar opposite to what they need than Drummond
He wouldn't hurt that's for sure. And like NY16 said, it allows you to trade Mitch.
I also dont understand the original comment by TTH, no offense. We are completely bereft of scoring in the low post. Adding him doesnt necessarily mean we are moving on from Mitch, it also means we dont have to keep playing Randle as much as we do. If we have the cap room and the price is low in terms of players and picks, why the hell not?
It's completely the opposite of what this coach wants to do. He's not going to sacrifice defense for scoring to that extreme. The whole defensive philosophy is shut down the paint and make teams shoot from range.
The Knicks are terrific on defense. They are also dead last in points. Again, did you watch Orlando and last night? The Knicks have NOBODY who can score in the paint at a respectable clip. Drummond doesnt have to be Mitch on defense. Mitch is coming back and I can see Mitch at the 5 with Drummond at the 4. Or Taj at the 4 with Drummond at the 5. Point is, I doubt Randle can maintain this clip of minutes. Plus the Cavs are just GIVING away a 17 and 11 guy.
Also doesnt work when you have perimeter defenders who dont understand when to help and when not to leading to open 3s when we cant shoot them. Making the Drummond trade at least mitigates that scoring discrepancy, will be a lot more sure handed on boards and its basically a try out.
The only way I dont like trading for him isis if there is legit smoke building towards nabbing Beal.
Looking to Drummond for "scoring" in the modern NBA seems like a
bad idea. He's an overrated rim protector, I think. Very limited offensive game. Elite rebounder. We won't re-sign him. He's not gonna make a difference in a playoff series.
Unless the Knicks get assets to take that contract, I have no interest.
Also doesnt work when you have perimeter defenders who dont understand when to help and when not to leading to open 3s when we cant shoot them. Making the Drummond trade at least mitigates that scoring discrepancy, will be a lot more sure handed on boards and its basically a try out.
The only way I dont like trading for him isis if there is legit smoke building towards nabbing Beal.
I'm not qualified to speak on whether it works or doesnt. I'm simply stating it's how Thibs runs his defense. And I think reinforced concrete is more flexible than Thibs.
Ainge was trying to trade Kemba earlier this year...but everyone knows he's hurt. If he's diminished going forward, that's a huge drag on their team. Very hard to compete with a max salary guy on the books who's not contributing. Sorta like what happened here with Amare.
Ainge was trying to trade Kemba earlier this year...but everyone knows he's hurt. If he's diminished going forward, that's a huge drag on their team. Very hard to compete with a max salary guy on the books who's not contributing. Sorta like what happened here with Amare.
Not only that but they have a hard cap which makes maneuvering even harder for them
Kemba, Brown & Tatum with huge deals and still have others making big money. We have no guaranteed money and we can’t sign three to save our lives. NBA either needs a hard cap or a luxury tax so we can spend and be equal to other teams salaries.
Kemba, Brown & Tatum with huge deals and still have others making big money. We have no guaranteed money and we can’t sign three to save our lives. NBA either needs a hard cap or a luxury tax so we can spend and be equal to other teams salaries.
were god awful. NO, WAS, and ORL are top 10 in salaries with records worses then the knicks. This isnt like MLB where you can go over the cap to sign whoever you want.
Have 3 players which they didn’t draft making more than the CAP all be themselves and the team is over by $55m I’m just saying it’s crazy. Penalize a team for poor drafting but at least let them put out a product which is equal.
Have 3 players which they didn’t draft making more than the CAP all be themselves and the team is over by $55m I’m just saying it’s crazy. Penalize a team for poor drafting but at least let them put out a product which is equal.
They are over because they traded their drafted players they paid, and went over the cap to resign Harris because they had his bird rights..
But when 27 out of 30 are over the 109m and some teams double the Knicks in salaries it’s tough to compete. (When we don’t know how to draft).
If the Knicks traded for a super star right now and that star made max, and then they signed another super star in the offseason or next, they'd be able to re-sign Randle and go over the cap.
The Knicks are about to enter the same territory of these super maxed out teams, but they have to get their first. That's why I want to see what the KNicks do AFTER a deal that sees them possibly overpay too many assets to get that first (2nd with Randle) big time star.
Even if they gave up 5 huge pieces for a guy like Beal or Booker, if they then were able to sign another worthy max, and re-sign randle, theydd have a super 3. That's pretty much the end all be all goal of every NBA team. Some people were laughing at the Nets, which still cracks me up, when they added the beard and oh there's going to be all this drama and my friend actually called them a dumpster fire in waiting...yeah..ok...wake me up after they make the semi-finals in their sleep, for the next 3-4 years straight and quite possibly win it all and more than once.
The Knicks are right there on the cusp of fielding a team like this, but they have to get it right. Timing is everything.
not sure I agree the Nets will have that much success for that long, but as to the Knicks I think you have laid out the game plan for the next couple of years.
not sure I agree the Nets will have that much success for that long, but as to the Knicks I think you have laid out the game plan for the next couple of years.
Yea that's fair. Nets are a bit weird or tough to project with any certainty, especially with looney Kyrie and Durant's injury status, but man, i'd love to see the Knicks look that weird.
I don't even like or hate the Nets and I have to watch them every night.
Knicks have a puncher's chance of getting to a level like the Nets, with some variance of course, but they have a shot. I pray they nail the next 12 months or so. I don't even know what players will be available, FA looks meh, but usually guys spring free.
I think the key move is the next one. The next trade, if and when really needs to be the right one. Booker is awesome but the Suns are good. Why would they let him go..
YES!
Well deserved,
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That's awesome
YES!
Well deserved,
+2, really happy for him. Worked his ass off this offseason, turned himself into a next level player
hahaha hes an all star, lol
I've seen the Suns multiple times this season. Booker is an All Star. I feel bad for him because he's had one helluva season.
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One with a lot of Kentucky connections.
I've seen the Suns multiple times this season. Booker is an All Star. I feel bad for him because he's had one helluva season.
world wide wes already recruiting him
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In comment 15159938 bceagle05 said:
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One with a lot of Kentucky connections.
I've seen the Suns multiple times this season. Booker is an All Star. I feel bad for him because he's had one helluva season.
world wide wes already recruiting him
He's exactly what we need. He'd cost a fuckton though.
Him and Wes are extremely close, Wes the reason he went to kentucky
Booker? I wouldn't think twice moving RJ for Booker.
He is an idiot.
Yeah, it'd be nice to have a C who could stretch the floor a bit and not bobble every time the ball comes to him. But I think we need a PG and a lethal shooter more.
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Yeah, it'd be nice to have a C who could stretch the floor a bit and not bobble every time the ball comes to him. But I think we need a PG and a lethal shooter more.
Luckily we have three picks.
Yup, well done by the Knicks
We seem to be taking the 1st Q off from playing defense, let’s go now boys
Warriors habe 2 of the bigger douchebags in the nba, Bazemore and Oubre
Yup, the good Rose showed up tonight
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Warriors habe 2 of the bigger douchebags in the nba, Bazemore and Oubre
I was expecting to see Green's name. So can we say 3?
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In comment 15160016 Anakim said:
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Warriors habe 2 of the bigger douchebags in the nba, Bazemore and Oubre
I was expecting to see Green's name. So can we say 3?
deal
I still think he goes to Golden State, Dursnt is that big of a bitch
I'd trade him tomorrow for Beal or Booker, without thinking twice. He's never going to be as good as those two.
he's def not having a good game so far
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that people wouldnt trade Barrett for a star
I'd trade him tomorrow for Beal or Booker, without thinking twice. He's never going to be as good as those two.
He forces so much, he has the worst shot selection, he literally dribbled into 3 guys rather than kick it to a wide open bullock..
If thenlob is not there it is a forced shot
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that people wouldnt trade Barrett for a star
he's def not having a good game so far
even his good games, his shot selection is awful and its because he has zero jimper
Well....nearly the entire league isn’t as good as them
Yeah Beal was tearing the league up by his 2nd year... not.
Don't sleep on the Maple Mamba. I like his make up. I think he's got a winning mentality that you can't teach.
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Beal or Booker. I am pretty certain of that.
Don't sleep on the Maple Mamba. I like his make up. I think he's got a winning mentality that you can't teach.
It's so funny you would have all traded Beal in year 2.
Barrett has just played 87 games with the covid shortened season.
He doesn't have to be Beal but a top 2 or 3 piece on a good team.
Trading the farm for Beal instead of adding talent through FA and the draft is not smart right now.
Trade Beal in year two for whom? A 27-year-old All-Star who was leading the league in scoring at the time? I probably would’ve done that. Nobody’s trading RJ just to trade him.
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In comment 15160053 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Beal or Booker. I am pretty certain of that.
Don't sleep on the Maple Mamba. I like his make up. I think he's got a winning mentality that you can't teach.
It's so funny you would have all traded Beal in year 2.
Barrett has just played 87 games with the covid shortened season.
He doesn't have to be Beal but a top 2 or 3 piece on a good team.
Trading the farm for Beal instead of adding talent through FA and the draft is not smart right now.
Beal was an elite shooter by year 2..
What does Rj do well?
You are not even having a good game
lol. you talkin' bout Frank?
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There is no way Frank can’t do what bullock does
lol. you talkin' bout Frank?
Haha he’s the Knicks version of the John Jerry troll with his Frank obsession
Such an ugly fast break. Bad night for RJ.
Need better shooting if we're going to win.
Need better shooting if we're going to win.
Now imagine if he was surrounded by shooters
Agree. We're not going to get another Curry but we need a serious 3 point shooter. We also need Mitch back IMO. Noel and Taj - I don't dislike them as players but they are both backups, not starters.
What a brutal fucking night all around.
What a brutal fucking night all around.
Maybe we will get a KP trade to cheer us up
Who's the 3rd best PG? Cooper from Auburn? Daishen Nix?
I know the smart move is to stay patient because this team we all though was a 15 win team, but if they had a Beal or lavine. They are competing with sny team in the East besides the nets.
He looks to habe hit a little bit of a wall, floater not falling and some of his shot slections are awful
I’ll allow for him still being young and learning, but he was a net negative for us out there in the 4th tonight. And several other guys missed layups or shots within ten feet that could have made a difference
I know the smart move is to stay patient because this team we all though was a 15 win team, but if they had a Beal or lavine. They are competing with sny team in the East besides the nets.
The play where Golden State reviewed was absolutely terrible, he drove into 3 guys with no one back with him..
Then he had a 3 on 1 and forced the shot and got fouled, could of had an easy 2
I’ll allow for him still being young and learning, but he was a net negative for us out there in the 4th tonight. And several other guys missed layups or shots within ten feet that could have made a difference
He is Randle last year
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he just barrels into the lane and forces up often awful shots
I’ll allow for him still being young and learning, but he was a net negative for us out there in the 4th tonight. And several other guys missed layups or shots within ten feet that could have made a difference
He is Randle last year
Randle last year turned into Randle this year. Which is why I'd be patient with RJB. Not saying he's untouchable in a trade though.
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In comment 15160164 mfsd said:
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he just barrels into the lane and forces up often awful shots
I’ll allow for him still being young and learning, but he was a net negative for us out there in the 4th tonight. And several other guys missed layups or shots within ten feet that could have made a difference
He is Randle last year
Randle last year turned into Randle this year. Which is why I'd be patient with RJB. Not saying he's untouchable in a trade though.
but at least Randle last year could shoot a little bit
He always looks like randle from last year, he just barrels into thr paint, some nights they go in and sometime they dont, but he never stops
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to secure the Mavs’ 80th home game of the season.
What a brutal fucking night all around.
Maybe we will get a KP trade to cheer us up
Don't worry the Uni couldn't be bothered to suit up for a 2nd night in a row.
His shot us off a bit? He was awful the past 2 games and sat because of it. Rose was superb in the 1st half and played more because of it. This isn't high school ball. I love Quick but if you're a rookie and you stink up the joint you're minutes will be cut especially when your team is fighting for a playoff spot.
Burks at least hit a couple of 3's to get them back in it in the 3rd, Bullock only played 18 minutes and RJ's minutes have been cut at times. Quickley was horrible tonight and worse was passing on shooting with his lack of confidence. Soon as he hits a couple of shots and gets his confidence back the minutes will rise again.
Takes pressure off of Randle at the end of games and makes it harder for teams to double..
He was awful defensively tonight..
The Knicks have made it to mediocre, which is about the worst thing you can be in the NBA. Not good enough to contend for a title, not bad enough to get lucky in the lottery. But at least they are mediocre with a bunch of assets to trade and no terrible contracts. That's an improvement.
RJ has had his minutes cut this month as he's had strings of bad games.
Thibs isn't changing his philosophy. Are you just venting by pointing out that rookies are treated differently? He's a pretty old dog to be complaining that he's not learning a new trick.
Takes pressure off of Randle at the end of games and makes it harder for teams to double..
100% RJ can maybe be that some day? Maybe Quickley could be? They can't do it consistently now. But when those guys don't get it done, the Knicks are playing uphill. I have not been the biggest Lavine fan but if they had a guy like that, they win last night. We can't win games if Elfrid fucking Payton is taking 19 shots.
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"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
He was awful defensively tonight..
Setting aside that I disagree that he was awful on defense last night, I humbly suggest you focus less on one night's performance and more on his overall development this year.
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a guy who at the end of games who can shoot and create his own shot..
Takes pressure off of Randle at the end of games and makes it harder for teams to double..
100% RJ can maybe be that some day? Maybe Quickley could be? They can't do it consistently now. But when those guys don't get it done, the Knicks are playing uphill. I have not been the biggest Lavine fan but if they had a guy like that, they win last night. We can't win games if Elfrid fucking Payton is taking 19 shots.
The bummer is Payton played a pretty good defensive game against Steph. He still dropped 37 including a killer 3 and 3-point play late, bc Steph is that good, but Payton made him work hard for it.
But you're right, any time Payton is our second leading scorer and shot taker, our chances of pulling out a game like last night are slim
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In comment 15160202 Mike from SI said:
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"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
He was awful defensively tonight..
Setting aside that I disagree that he was awful on defense last night, I humbly suggest you focus less on one night's performance and more on his overall development this year.
what does he do well? it is not just last night, his overally shot selection is horrible whether the ball goes in or not is irrelevant..his shooting is horrendous..
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In comment 15160203 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15160202 Mike from SI said:
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"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
He was awful defensively tonight..
Setting aside that I disagree that he was awful on defense last night, I humbly suggest you focus less on one night's performance and more on his overall development this year.
what does he do well? it is not just last night, his overally shot selection is horrible whether the ball goes in or not is irrelevant..his shooting is horrendous..
As I said in my previous comment, he's good at defense and rebounding.... He's shown plenty of good flashes on offense, the consistency will come.
His way of just putting his head down, is julius randle last year, remeber the randle we all hated?
I'm not sure how you project him going forward. Will he ever be an above average shooter? And he really struggles to finish at the rim in traffic. He can be very indecisive- he shows flashes of playmaking but doesn't do that consistently. Unless you fully fit the team around him and let him handle the ball, how does he fit in on a good team when he can't space the floor?
I know its only 1 night, but he had 4 points last night. He should be the clear cut 2nd best player on this team and there are too many nights when he has very little impact.
I think Thibs needs to shake up his rotation. The 5 man grouping of RJ, Randle, Reggie, Payton and a center is seemingly pretty lousy offensively. Randle can only prop it up so much.
That shot he took down 5 with 4 and a half left with the entire warriors team back and he went 1 on 5 was the icing on the cake...
That shot he took down 5 with 4 and a half left with the entire warriors team back and he went 1 on 5 was the icing on the cake...
Sacramento tomorrow.
Now, I understand why the Knicks have to play a different way as they really don't have any good three point shooters. Burks comes closest and when Quickley is on, he is effective. It's one reason why I still struggle with why they took Toppin instead of one of the sharp shooting guards still available.
Hopefully, management understands this and makes acquiring three-point shooters the priority this off-season and draft.
He is a good passing 2-3 and a good rebounding 2-3 and he gets to the basket and finishes well. He's also a capable defender with room for growth.
You don't have to obliterate Barrett while keeping your mind open to a big time trade. He's 20 and averaging above average numbers. Of course he should be traded for a super star, but that doesn't mean he's garbage.
Knox is useless. Kidding me...
We are 2 games under 500.
Young players like RJB, Quickley and Mitch have shown progress. No one is putting any of these kids in upper echelon but we'd take every player's progression in spades if we were offered this prior to game 1.
Randle has developed into a legit super star player. He's as good a PF as any in the game. His scoring efficiency is nothing short of excellent. His D is adequate. Rebounding is elite. And he's a good passing big.
Dallas pick looks to be at least middle of the road which we would all sign up for considering how we all felt they'd be a 50 win team this year. If it turns out to be a lotto pick, great, but even a pick in the teens will help the Knicks immensely.
Every young player on this team save for Frank and knox have progressed this year. Every single one. Meaning we now have legit trade chips and with Randle, legit building blocks. Rose and Thibs know WTF they are doing, especially Thibs. We are fine. We aren't going to make any desperate trades right now because we don't have to. If and when the right trade comes along, and it will, the Knicks will strike. The trade will likely cost a lot, probably more than what many here want to part with, but the bigger key will be that the Knicks will have room to operate after the trade. They will be able to add pieces unlike 2011.
We lost to a better team last night. Curry is a better player than any one on our team. Refs sucked. Oh well. We are still on pace for a 500 or so record. I am enjoying every second of this season because not only is this fun, the possibilities for the future are endless. I don't see an Al Bianchi or Donnie Walsh type fuck up or two on the horizon. I think Rose knows a lot more than we might think. This is a guy that has the pulse of the entire NBA at his fingertips.
I do think RJB will be one of the pieces moved. I also think Mitch could be dealt as well. The good thing is, these kids have established themselves as solid starters and the league has a hard on for cheap solid starters. Perhaps the Knicks won't have to trade away 5-6 chips for that star player, perhaps only 2-3...
He is just a hard player to build around and is useless without the ball in his hands
Hahn last night on his facebook live was saying he expects a lot more national games second half
not that we're a bunch of experts, but it's been pointed out by more than few posters here that he doesn't look like the same guy as last year. The stats tell the same story.
I'm not going to get on a 20 year old kid for poor decision making or shot selection. That is just something that comes with experience, and if you watch any young player in the league they all do stupid shit. Quickley and Obi Toppin have had more than their fair share this year and both of those guys are older than Barrett is.
Per 36 minutes he is averaging roughly 17-7-3, as a 20 year old with 88 career games played. The shooting still isn't where you want it to be, but it has improved and hopefully will continue to improve. His 3 point shooting was horrific over the first 5 games of the season (he finished December shooting 12.5% from 3), but he has shot MUCH better other than that and is shooting a much more respectable 35.5% from 3 in the 27 games since. He is a good rebounder for his position, he is a good passer for his size, and he has played above average defense this year.
Yeah it sucks that he isn't Zion or Ja (check out Ja's 3 point shooting % if you want to get on RJ about his), but that doesn't mean he isn't going to be a good player once he actually has time to develop.
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In that sense the numbers don't tell the whole story. The fact that his MPG have increased is significant because his major flaw was constantly being in foul trouble and he HAS improved that.
not that we're a bunch of experts, but it's been pointed out by more than few posters here that he doesn't look like the same guy as last year. The stats tell the same story.
In what way? He was never a big offensive player to begin with, so I'm not sure what numbers really show his value. His blocks are down? In the past, he was chasing blocks trying to fill a stat-sheet, but that's not necessarily good defensive play.
Mitch is a better player this year. He isn't fouling out every other game.
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In that sense the numbers don't tell the whole story. The fact that his MPG have increased is significant because his major flaw was constantly being in foul trouble and he HAS improved that.
not that we're a bunch of experts, but it's been pointed out by more than few posters here that he doesn't look like the same guy as last year. The stats tell the same story.
That I agree with but I think his value around the league has gone up, even if just slightly.
Didn't you say RJ was untouchable and wouldn't trade him for anyone in the league?
Everyone's favorite player, Morant--go check his numbers this season. Up and down.
It's hyper focused on minutes played and rotations and every loss. I felt compelled to post a feel good tirade because most threads are so negative. Fuck man I am enjoying the hell out of this. Even the losses.
The stress of stupid unrealistic expectations will come soon enough for now I am enjoying this.
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In comment 15160441 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In that sense the numbers don't tell the whole story. The fact that his MPG have increased is significant because his major flaw was constantly being in foul trouble and he HAS improved that.
not that we're a bunch of experts, but it's been pointed out by more than few posters here that he doesn't look like the same guy as last year. The stats tell the same story.
In what way? He was never a big offensive player to begin with, so I'm not sure what numbers really show his value. His blocks are down? In the past, he was chasing blocks trying to fill a stat-sheet, but that's not necessarily good defensive play.
A 6.0 drop in PER is significant - no matter how you slice it. PER is not the best stat in the world, but I think it's a pretty good measure of a player's general activity/production. Getting more specific, his biggest (or only) strength on offense was his ability to finish around the rim. He went from being dominant in that area to just ok.
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being on Realgm when Jamal Crawford sister would post in the Knick's forum. Even she wasn't so laser focused on one player as you guys are.
It's hyper focused on minutes played and rotations and every loss. I felt compelled to post a feel good tirade because most threads are so negative. Fuck man I am enjoying the hell out of this. Even the losses.
The stress of stupid unrealistic expectations will come soon enough for now I am enjoying this.
even the other young players on the team, you see the trait that they excel at, Quickley with his shooting, ability to draw fouls...Mitch shot blocking and rim running..Toppin his athleticism..
Now is it a guarantee those players become anything? no but you see the trait that can be the thing that propels them..
Rj doesnt have that 1 trait that he excels at, now do i want to trade him for a bag of balls? no but i dont see the trait that one can say thats why hr is going to develop
it's obviously just not PER. He's also down in TS% and RB%. Also, the TOV% is up while his usage is down.
Anecdotally, it seems like a combination of diminished athleticism, bad hands, and overall lack of instincts.
Forget last year, his shooting percentages around the hoop are down from his rookie year.
... and then there's Drummond ...
update from the Post on possible Drummond trade - ( New Window )
Drummond is a beast down low and with randle play well on the perimiter it could work..
Austin Rivers says hr has heard rumors of him being traded
Drummond is a beast down low and with randle play well on the perimiter it could work..
Austin Rivers says hr has heard rumors of him being traded
I would make that deal for Drummond in a heart beat. We can use the rest of the season as an evaluation period, but boy do we need paint points from our front court. He can actually catch the ball, has a little shooting touch, would allow Randle to use his perimeter and off the dribble game more effectively, would be HUGE for our driving PGs as a dump option and is another double double every night. I would be against it if it meant losing 1st+, but this guy frees up a lot of space on the perimeter.
Who are we getting paint points from now other than Payton and Randle?
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In comment 15160279 Mike from SI said:
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In comment 15160203 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15160202 Mike from SI said:
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"take our time with RJ" camp. He's going to be fine. Also, he's pretty good at rebounding and defense, which doesn't seem to come up on these threads for some reason.
He was awful defensively tonight..
Setting aside that I disagree that he was awful on defense last night, I humbly suggest you focus less on one night's performance and more on his overall development this year.
what does he do well? it is not just last night, his overally shot selection is horrible whether the ball goes in or not is irrelevant..his shooting is horrendous..
As I said in my previous comment, he's good at defense and rebounding.... He's shown plenty of good flashes on offense, the consistency will come.
He is NOT a good defender off the ball. He is OK on the ball, but he still gets beaten badly once a game.
I can literally point out 3 different plays based on memory from last nightwhere he made a terrible decision that cost the Knicks points last night.
I don't know that I think any team will be able to do it, which is why I think he'll be bought out in the end.
I admittedly haven't watched much of the Rockets this year but Cousins shot 37% from the field so far this year. That's pretty awful to say the least.
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
Well, I love Mitch, and dont want him traded. That said, in my opinion, he is not a front line Center yet. He has a terrible offensive game aside from the occasional oop or offensive rebound. Drummond is not going to command the same contract he previosly got and giving up a 2nd and Rivers/Frank is basically getting him for what we gave up for Rose. He is the same age as Randle and they can both be part of the solution going forward.
But we arent going to beat anybody without somewhat of a post presence from our C. He wouldve done wonders last night.
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
Quickley will be fine, he plays the most 4th quarter minutes on the team, past 3 games he has been lff game before that hr played 25 minutes and closed out the game..
Frank and Knox suck, Knox had his chance and blew it, It is telling that a defensive coach wants nothing to do with frank
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It would cost us nothing in terms of assets or even much cap space. We could use his low post presence on offense for 15-20 minutes a night. Even when Mitch is healthy our bigs present no offensive threat except rolling to the hoop for a dunk. Collectively they probably have the worst hands in the NBA.
I admittedly haven't watched much of the Rockets this year but Cousins shot 37% from the field so far this year. That's pretty awful to say the least.
Houston is a mess right now. No spacing. Wall has been ok, but he looks for his shot more than anything else. Oladipo's %'s have plummeted there compared to Indiana. Why not take a flyer on Cousins? He can definitely score in the low post.
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In comment 15160653 Stu11 said:
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It would cost us nothing in terms of assets or even much cap space. We could use his low post presence on offense for 15-20 minutes a night. Even when Mitch is healthy our bigs present no offensive threat except rolling to the hoop for a dunk. Collectively they probably have the worst hands in the NBA.
I admittedly haven't watched much of the Rockets this year but Cousins shot 37% from the field so far this year. That's pretty awful to say the least.
Houston is a mess right now. No spacing. Wall has been ok, but he looks for his shot more than anything else. Oladipo's %'s have plummeted there compared to Indiana. Why not take a flyer on Cousins? He can definitely score in the low post.
He cant move and has been a siv on defense, his body has really broken down, he is going for maybe 15 minutes a night
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Drummond helps our main weaknesses. Also, he's a free agent in a few months so what's the point? We become a slightly tougher out in the first round then we would have been without him?
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
Quickley will be fine, he plays the most 4th quarter minutes on the team, past 3 games he has been lff game before that hr played 25 minutes and closed out the game..
Frank and Knox suck, Knox had his chance and blew it, It is telling that a defensive coach wants nothing to do with frank
that's a hell of a "chance" Knox was given, lol. No reason both him and Frank can't at least be in the g-league getting reps. Also, Obi has played more than 15 mins in a game exactly three times this season. Yes, we're more competitive, but we're not close to being an actual winning team. What serves the team better in the long run?
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In comment 15160682 Enzo said:
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Drummond helps our main weaknesses. Also, he's a free agent in a few months so what's the point? We become a slightly tougher out in the first round then we would have been without him?
I guess I could see it if you have a deal to re-sign him for less than what he's currently making. Then you can trade Mitch.
I'm really not crazy about the overall team direction of making this half ass "playoff push" while Quickly barely plays and Knox/Frank rot on the bench.
Quickley will be fine, he plays the most 4th quarter minutes on the team, past 3 games he has been lff game before that hr played 25 minutes and closed out the game..
Frank and Knox suck, Knox had his chance and blew it, It is telling that a defensive coach wants nothing to do with frank
that's a hell of a "chance" Knox was given, lol. No reason both him and Frank can't at least be in the g-league getting reps. Also, Obi has played more than 15 mins in a game exactly three times this season. Yes, we're more competitive, but we're not close to being an actual winning team. What serves the team better in the long run?
that i agree with send them to the g league..
Who is he playing over? i wouldnt mind a little small ball
Presumably shooting and floor spacing, but he's not elite at it.
For me, I'm happy to ride out this year, let the kids develop more, and see if we can't turn this better than expected season into a FA or offseason trade win. T
I feel like in years past no one wanted to come to NY because they didn't want to have the burden of turning it around by themselves. In the past there's been no prospects and the needle has always pointed down. But this year there's a lot of reasons for optimism.
I can see that working in our favor with stars asking to be traded, or FAs we normally wouldn't have landed.
I hope Rose takes the long view and sells off some spare parts at the deadline, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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In comment 15160674 Enzo said:
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In comment 15160653 Stu11 said:
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It would cost us nothing in terms of assets or even much cap space. We could use his low post presence on offense for 15-20 minutes a night. Even when Mitch is healthy our bigs present no offensive threat except rolling to the hoop for a dunk. Collectively they probably have the worst hands in the NBA.
I admittedly haven't watched much of the Rockets this year but Cousins shot 37% from the field so far this year. That's pretty awful to say the least.
Houston is a mess right now. No spacing. Wall has been ok, but he looks for his shot more than anything else. Oladipo's %'s have plummeted there compared to Indiana. Why not take a flyer on Cousins? He can definitely score in the low post.
He cant move and has been a siv on defense, his body has really broken down, he is going for maybe 15 minutes a night
Its worse than that, he is averaging like 10 pts and hes been getting 20 mins per game....that was according to Hahn last night.
Drummond instantly gives us a secondary scorer. I dunno if you guys were watching last night, but unless it was Randle or Payton, none of our starters were scoring. We are at the bottom of the league on offense and that is largely because we rely so heavily on our perimeter game while we are limited on shooters.
I hope Rose takes the long view and sells off some spare parts at the deadline, but I'll believe it when I see it.
they are not selling off we both know that, rose and Thibs are going to try and make the playoffs and then build with their cap space and 5 1sts in 3 yesrs
He wouldn't hurt that's for sure. And like NY16 said, it allows you to trade Mitch.
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He wouldn't hurt that's for sure. And like NY16 said, it allows you to trade Mitch.
I also dont understand the original comment by TTH, no offense. We are completely bereft of scoring in the low post. Adding him doesnt necessarily mean we are moving on from Mitch, it also means we dont have to keep playing Randle as much as we do. If we have the cap room and the price is low in terms of players and picks, why the hell not?
Well Quickley is going to get more minutes tomorrow, Payton is doubtful
Both Mavs games nationally televised.
i would be ok if they did an alternate logo on their alternate jerseys or on the all star jerseys..
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In comment 15160621 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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He wouldn't hurt that's for sure. And like NY16 said, it allows you to trade Mitch.
I also dont understand the original comment by TTH, no offense. We are completely bereft of scoring in the low post. Adding him doesnt necessarily mean we are moving on from Mitch, it also means we dont have to keep playing Randle as much as we do. If we have the cap room and the price is low in terms of players and picks, why the hell not?
It's completely the opposite of what this coach wants to do. He's not going to sacrifice defense for scoring to that extreme. The whole defensive philosophy is shut down the paint and make teams shoot from range.
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In comment 15160843 djm said:
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In comment 15160621 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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He wouldn't hurt that's for sure. And like NY16 said, it allows you to trade Mitch.
I also dont understand the original comment by TTH, no offense. We are completely bereft of scoring in the low post. Adding him doesnt necessarily mean we are moving on from Mitch, it also means we dont have to keep playing Randle as much as we do. If we have the cap room and the price is low in terms of players and picks, why the hell not?
It's completely the opposite of what this coach wants to do. He's not going to sacrifice defense for scoring to that extreme. The whole defensive philosophy is shut down the paint and make teams shoot from range.
The Knicks are terrific on defense. They are also dead last in points. Again, did you watch Orlando and last night? The Knicks have NOBODY who can score in the paint at a respectable clip. Drummond doesnt have to be Mitch on defense. Mitch is coming back and I can see Mitch at the 5 with Drummond at the 4. Or Taj at the 4 with Drummond at the 5. Point is, I doubt Randle can maintain this clip of minutes. Plus the Cavs are just GIVING away a 17 and 11 guy.
The only way I dont like trading for him isis if there is legit smoke building towards nabbing Beal.
Unless the Knicks get assets to take that contract, I have no interest.
The only way I dont like trading for him isis if there is legit smoke building towards nabbing Beal.
I'm not qualified to speak on whether it works or doesnt. I'm simply stating it's how Thibs runs his defense. And I think reinforced concrete is more flexible than Thibs.
Cs are in complete free fall.
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you hate to see it
Cs are in complete free fall.
Its amazing how quick things can change in the NBA. But Ainge deserves some blame for the past few years of personnel decisions.
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In comment 15160938 nygiants16 said:
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you hate to see it
Cs are in complete free fall.
Its amazing how quick things can change in the NBA. But Ainge deserves some blame for the past few years of personnel decisions.
With Kemba struggling, that team is tatum and Brown and a bunch of jags..
I believe ainge turned down a pretty good deal for hayward and then lost him for nothing
Not only that but they have a hard cap which makes maneuvering even harder for them
there are hard caps, Celtics have a hard cap..
Because they resigned their own drafted players
When the Knicks have 2 star players and are using a bunch of exceptions to sign players they will be well over the cap..
If the Knicks were over the cap this year we would all be pissed
They are over because they traded their drafted players they paid, and went over the cap to resign Harris because they had his bird rights..
cap manipulation happens in every single sport..
why cant they use their cap space this year?
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you hate to see it
Cs are in complete free fall.
that's a shame. I am shocked though.
If the Knicks traded for a super star right now and that star made max, and then they signed another super star in the offseason or next, they'd be able to re-sign Randle and go over the cap.
The Knicks are about to enter the same territory of these super maxed out teams, but they have to get their first. That's why I want to see what the KNicks do AFTER a deal that sees them possibly overpay too many assets to get that first (2nd with Randle) big time star.
Even if they gave up 5 huge pieces for a guy like Beal or Booker, if they then were able to sign another worthy max, and re-sign randle, theydd have a super 3. That's pretty much the end all be all goal of every NBA team. Some people were laughing at the Nets, which still cracks me up, when they added the beard and oh there's going to be all this drama and my friend actually called them a dumpster fire in waiting...yeah..ok...wake me up after they make the semi-finals in their sleep, for the next 3-4 years straight and quite possibly win it all and more than once.
The Knicks are right there on the cusp of fielding a team like this, but they have to get it right. Timing is everything.
not sure I agree the Nets will have that much success for that long, but as to the Knicks I think you have laid out the game plan for the next couple of years.
not sure I agree the Nets will have that much success for that long, but as to the Knicks I think you have laid out the game plan for the next couple of years.
Yea that's fair. Nets are a bit weird or tough to project with any certainty, especially with looney Kyrie and Durant's injury status, but man, i'd love to see the Knicks look that weird.
I don't even like or hate the Nets and I have to watch them every night.
Knicks have a puncher's chance of getting to a level like the Nets, with some variance of course, but they have a shot. I pray they nail the next 12 months or so. I don't even know what players will be available, FA looks meh, but usually guys spring free.
I think the key move is the next one. The next trade, if and when really needs to be the right one. Booker is awesome but the Suns are good. Why would they let him go..
lol that would be so knicksy. YAY we are awesome and no more NBA bye bye...thx for watching.