Via Twitter;
Per @DDuggan21: #Giants and Leonard Williams “aren’t close” to reaching an agreement on a contract extension. The deadline for team’s to use franchise tag is March 9.
Just to add context to this, not being close to an agreement now isn't a big deal. If they're not close in two weeks, then it becomes a big deal. Deadlines drive action in the NFL, so the picture will be much clearer by March 9
Bevause the level of production changed dramatically
I don't think that's the case. Once he decided to forego our offer and play 2020 as is, I don't really think there was much negotiating. He wanted to maximize his value and the Giants didn't want to pay top dollar yet.
We can still tag him which is perfectly fine with me - we'd likely pay less in 2021 unless it was a backloaded deal.
No.
Team LW has played this very smartly. They KNOW they can get $20-21M in the market. So why settle for less?
I wasn't familiar so i looked it up and found this. Seems like a really unique deal, can basically be cut after 2 years with 0 penalty. I'd be open to a higher AAV with this type of structure.
Chris Jones Contract - ( New Window )
LW bet on himself and it looks like he'll win big.
Gettleman is really warming up to me...
We'll see what happens,I wonder if they would tag him again
We'll see what happens,I wonder if they would tag him again
Isn't it set that the other pick stayed a 5th?
I'm OK using the FT, or even letting him go, as painful as the latter would be.
Pretty standard for a rep to negotiate based on counting stats. That is what he should do, and the Giants, if smart, will counter that luck can be a factor in turning pressure into sacks, especially when it's the first time he's has a year like this.
LW bet on himself and it looks like he'll win big.
Spot on. Give his team credit, they obviously under the comps and, my guess, the YoY inflation adjustments that will also impact the deal.
Let's be honest here - a deal like is going to make it very challenging to bring in the added infrastructure Jones needs to demonstrate if he has the goods in this crucial 3rd year. And right now finding out what Jones can do is more critical than keeping LW...
LW: I resurrected your defense.
And they both probably think their version is closest to the truth, so both sides are apart.
I'm OK using the FT, or even letting him go, as painful as the latter would be.
Huge no for me. We cant tie up about $19 mil or whatever the tag is for 1 year. The correct thing was to either TT him last year or let him hit FA. By using the FT you cut your legs out from under yourself from a negotiation standpoint.
Yeah,but I was thinking it could say something about what he expects in his next deal.
Quote:
A 10+ sack 3-4 defensive end, with no legitimate edge rusher over his shoulder.
LW bet on himself and it looks like he'll win big.
Spot on. Give his team credit, they obviously under the comps and, my guess, the YoY inflation adjustments that will also impact the deal.
Let's be honest here - a deal like is going to make it very challenging to bring in the added infrastructure Jones needs to demonstrate if he has the goods in this crucial 3rd year. And right now finding out what Jones can do is more critical than keeping LW...
It illustrates why the draft (and alot of wheel spinning here under DG is frustrating) is vital to turning this around. I warned resigning Logan could mean saying goodbye to others, the same goes here.
I doubt if Williams can have another season with a better “career” year so his contract would reflect this year’s performance - not to reflect some future improvement even though he is only 26.
Quote:
A 10+ sack 3-4 defensive end, with no legitimate edge rusher over his shoulder.
LW bet on himself and it looks like he'll win big.
Spot on. Give his team credit, they obviously under the comps and, my guess, the YoY inflation adjustments that will also impact the deal.
Let's be honest here - a deal like is going to make it very challenging to bring in the added infrastructure Jones needs to demonstrate if he has the goods in this crucial 3rd year. And right now finding out what Jones can do is more critical than keeping LW...
This is the theme of the Cap thread from last evening.
Giants have to make some hard choices. Let's see if they are smart about it...
Quote:
becoming the Giants' version of the Dak Prescott situation in Dallas.
I'm OK using the FT, or even letting him go, as painful as the latter would be.
Huge no for me. We cant tie up about $19 mil or whatever the tag is for 1 year. The correct thing was to either TT him last year or let him hit FA. By using the FT you cut your legs out from under yourself from a negotiation standpoint.
I'm OK using the FT on Williams because it buys us time to work out a long term deal. (I think we have until July 15th.) I am also against signing any of the big name FA WRs or OL. The biggest negative to using the FT is that it might make it difficult to resign Tomlinson.
It illustrates why the draft (and alot of wheel spinning here under DG is frustrating) is vital to turning this around. I warned resigning Logan could mean saying goodbye to others, the same goes here.
That's a good point about Logan. In hindsight, we rushed into that like Logan was Ronnie Lott.
He had a very nice year. Showed great flexibility, but he is/was definitely replaceable.
Good for the Giants here. Stick to your value. They could re-sign Dalvin Tomlinson instead, replace Williams with B.J. Hill and rely on Spencer's coaching - who seemed to have everyone playing up to their abilities.
They could also replace Williams with Kawann Short (for example) at a fraction of the cost and still get some pass rush pop.
There are lots of pros/cons to making this deal but it has to make sense for the Giants.
Good for the Giants here. Stick to your value. They could re-sign Dalvin Tomlinson instead, replace Williams with B.J. Hill and rely on Spencer's coaching - who seemed to have everyone playing up to their abilities.
They could also replace Williams with Kawann Short (for example) at a fraction of the cost and still get some pass rush pop.
There are lots of pros/cons to making this deal but it has to make sense for the Giants.
I agree with this post. If the numbers get too unreal you have to move on for the sake of the franchise.
The tag is the only power the Giants have here. As a Giants fan, I just have to hope that LW sees what the Giants have to offer beyond contract and want to stay here and work with them to come up with something that gets him paid but also works for the Giants structure wise. The TAG isn't ideal for either camp, but that might be what it comes down too and I'd be okay with it if I were the Giants...Is LW okay with it?
The tag is the only power the Giants have here. As a Giants fan, I just have to hope that LW sees what the Giants have to offer beyond contract and want to stay here and work with them to come up with something that gets him paid but also works for the Giants structure wise. The TAG isn't ideal for either camp, but that might be what it comes down too and I'd be okay with it if I were the Giants...Is LW okay with it?
As mentioned before, what is the purpose of the second tag? The Giants aren't competing seriously for a Super Bowl this season and they would be right back at the table with LW again next spring. Do you think his demands go materially down if plays worse. I don't think so.
What is the point of tagging (other than as mentioned to tag and trade)?
Good for the Giants here. Stick to your value. They could re-sign Dalvin Tomlinson instead, replace Williams with B.J. Hill and rely on Spencer's coaching - who seemed to have everyone playing up to their abilities.
They could also replace Williams with Kawann Short (for example) at a fraction of the cost and still get some pass rush pop.
There are lots of pros/cons to making this deal but it has to make sense for the Giants.
If the Giants decide that they can't afford LW for the sake of the franchise...let's not pretend like they can replace him. They won't.
LW is a commodity not often found - an IDL that can rush the passer. Those guys don't grow on trees.
Exactly.
No, probably not, but also not seeing an interior defensive lineman worth it either.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out and whether desperation rules over the NY Giants front office once again.
Quote:
that's the dilemma.
No, probably not, but also not seeing an interior defensive lineman worth it either.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out and whether desperation rules over the NY Giants front office once again.
If they're going to build and spend $20M on a defensive player accordingly, LW is a good target. They don't appear to be valuing Edge the same as before going multiple with a 3-4 base.
they can restructure other contracts to free up the necessary space
it's not like they need the tag for someone else
my preference is to sign him long-term but i'm just saying tagging him again is not the end of the world
But at least we will have some movement on the contract front that way.
They did decently last year manufacturing pressures/sacks although that always exposes other areas, and takes a bit longer coming from the front or via a bit of a chase. Maybe they can do it again.
Quote:
is accurate, can a compromise at 19 mill be far behind?
No.
Team LW has played this very smartly. They KNOW they can get $20-21M in the market. So why settle for less?
?
In this down cap year market?
I doubt anyone has any certainty about what Williams can get on the open market.
Yes his sacks took a dramatic turn upwards.
His total pressure rate and/or QB hit rate remained +/- the same.
Not sure what his open market value is, and frankly I'd be a little surprised if he performed just as well elsewhere without Tomlinson, Lawrence and Hill as his line mates or in a system largely different from PG's.
If the Giants decide that they can't afford LW for the sake of the franchise...let's not pretend like they can replace him. They won't.
LW is a commodity not often found - an IDL that can rush the passer. Those guys don't grow on trees.
He had one All-Pro level year. And this is the first year LW has shown he can finish. So this level of play has not been a trend.
Could it be the start of a trend? Well, that's really the $20M+ AAV question here. Isn't it? A hue question...
The safer play is to assume it's more of a one time pop and let someone else spend the cap money on this bet.
Quote:
there are teams out there sitting on a lot of CAP space and i'm sure they would be willing to back the truck up.
The tag is the only power the Giants have here. As a Giants fan, I just have to hope that LW sees what the Giants have to offer beyond contract and want to stay here and work with them to come up with something that gets him paid but also works for the Giants structure wise. The TAG isn't ideal for either camp, but that might be what it comes down too and I'd be okay with it if I were the Giants...Is LW okay with it?
As mentioned before, what is the purpose of the second tag? The Giants aren't competing seriously for a Super Bowl this season and they would be right back at the table with LW again next spring. Do you think his demands go materially down if plays worse. I don't think so.
What is the point of tagging (other than as mentioned to tag and trade)?
The point is to win. I'm not willing to Punt on next year. There will be improvements made, if they can stay healthy I do believe they can compete. LW helps them do that.
They did decently last year manufacturing pressures/sacks although that always exposes other areas, and takes a bit longer coming from the front or via a bit of a chase. Maybe they can do it again.
It could be, but I'd be surprised if they spent the dollars on the Edge talent that figures to be available. A lot of warts out there for the projected price range, and the A talent worth the coin is becoming harder to find.
NE typically builds inside out and tries to keep the cost in check. It has worked largely for the Rams as well as the Titans. Giants could be following suit building inside out, up the middle, and strong on the backend. Thus, the allocation of resources on the DL, ILB, CB, and Ryan's versatility to be glue.
Quote:
In comment 15161267 rasbutant said:
Quote:
there are teams out there sitting on a lot of CAP space and i'm sure they would be willing to back the truck up.
The tag is the only power the Giants have here. As a Giants fan, I just have to hope that LW sees what the Giants have to offer beyond contract and want to stay here and work with them to come up with something that gets him paid but also works for the Giants structure wise. The TAG isn't ideal for either camp, but that might be what it comes down too and I'd be okay with it if I were the Giants...Is LW okay with it?
As mentioned before, what is the purpose of the second tag? The Giants aren't competing seriously for a Super Bowl this season and they would be right back at the table with LW again next spring. Do you think his demands go materially down if plays worse. I don't think so.
What is the point of tagging (other than as mentioned to tag and trade)?
The point is to win. I'm not willing to Punt on next year. There will be improvements made, if they can stay healthy I do believe they can compete. LW helps them do that.
Wasn't suggesting they don't try and win. Only saying the tag gets the team one-years worth of value at a predetermined high cap hit. If a contract is structured favorably then the NYG can use more cap space elsewhere.
And the franchise tag solves nothing as to control over LW's future. So I ask again, what does tagging him really solve for?
Quote:
that's the dilemma.
Exactly.
+2. That's why I'm OK using the FT, although it obviously isn't preferable. But there is also a limit to what the Giants should spend to resign LW.