If you have the choice more flexibility (rushes and plays LB). Well I think you have seen Michigan’s record the past few years. A very good player but not a difference maker.
250lbs, fastest player on the field...took a toss sweep 80 yards to the house against a real good team. Exceptional kid, I work with his high school Coordinator. The father of his HS head coach is a member of BBI and he posted a conversation about how much the coaches loved him. Arranged to have all the HS coaches fly out to Michigan! Has off the chart flexibility .....Sy wrot one Twitter, "I hate comparisons but Kwity Paye reminds me of Justin Tuck!"
Remember... a lot of Michigan kids don't have gaudy stats
but do well in the NFL. Chase Winovich and Josh Uche are doing well for New England. This kid has more talent. Providence RI native and a Bishop Hendricken product.
I think the question with Paye is scheme fit for the Giants.
250lbs, fastest player on the field...took a toss sweep 80 yards to the house against a real good team. Exceptional kid, I work with his high school Coordinator. The father of his HS head coach is a member of BBI and he posted a conversation about how much the coaches loved him. Arranged to have all the HS coaches fly out to Michigan! Has off the chart flexibility .....Sy wrot one Twitter, "I hate comparisons but Kwity Paye reminds me of Justin Tuck!"
excellent details. I'm getting excited about this kid.
much about the kid at all, I did have one question though. If he is such a touted prospect why did it not reflect in his stats? Was it the scheme? He has only 23.5 TFL's and 11.5 sacks in 4 seasons.
whenever I watched him were how quick his feet are. For a guy his size, he is really quick. Great motor too. He is definitely raw, and needs some work on pass rush moves, but he seems like the guy who will put in the work.
I think he was misused a bit at UM. They moved him all over the line, and he too often got caught up in the wash. Some of that is his lack of experience, but I think if he lined up strictly on edge (either side), his sack totals would have been much higher. I'm not advocating taking him at 11, but he is a really interesting prospect.
but do well in the NFL. Chase Winovich and Josh Uche are doing well for New England. This kid has more talent. Providence RI native and a Bishop Hendricken product.
Like Rashan Gary? Out of Michigan and was taken 12th overall in 2019 by Green Bay and he played in 35 games (started only 4 games) and has a total of 63 tackles in 2 years (including the playoffs). And he was taken 12th overall!!
Michigan defense might not have gaudy stats in college but Gary has worse in the pros.
But not sure he’d be deemed a scheme fit by the coaching staff. He’s a guy you can move all along the line in a 4-3 and would fit the Coughlin era defenses very, very well. Graham’s defense, maybe not as much.
I posted a month ago as my son was Kwity high school coach at Bishop Hendricken HS in RI . We have remained close to Kwity throughout his Michigan career and have assisted him in the pre draft process including his selection of an agent. Needless to say, we both think the world of Kwity. He is currently at the EXOS facility in Arizona preparing for his pro day at Michigan. He will most likely have a phenomenal 3 cone drill and will be one of the fastest DE/DL/Edges in the draft at 6’3 1/2 272 lbs and this past season was said to be the biggest physical freak in college football
At Michigan he played multiple positions from 1 to 3 to 5 to 7 tech....as a result of his versatility in being moved around his sacks were lower but his QB pressures this year were among the best in the country inspite of him being dinged up and missing a several games....he has been called the best spread run defender in college football and this has become a necessity in today NFL....the scheme at Michigan had a bit to do with Kwity sack total I suspect.
As a longtime Giants fan I realize we need help at edge, WR, TE, OL and CB and while I have a bit of insight into the high regard that Kwity is held in by many NFL teams I am the first to admit that I am biased when it comes to Kwity..we fans are aware of the indiscretions that some of our recent draftees have experienced in terms of maturity and misguided personal decisions....the GMEN would never have to worry about Kwity off the field or on the field....I urge you all to simply google ESPN Gameday Kwity Paye to see if glimpse of the character this young man possesses. While we will have great options at 11 we could do a lot worse than Kwity Paye. He is a talented , mature, dedicated football player with a bright NFL career ahead of him .
but do well in the NFL. Chase Winovich and Josh Uche are doing well for New England. This kid has more talent. Providence RI native and a Bishop Hendricken product.
Like Rashan Gary? Out of Michigan and was taken 12th overall in 2019 by Green Bay and he played in 35 games (started only 4 games) and has a total of 63 tackles in 2 years (including the playoffs). And he was taken 12th overall!!
Michigan defense might not have gaudy stats in college but Gary has worse in the pros.
Gary was GB's best defensive player in 2020 down the stretch
his length and AA pop when you watch him play, higher upside imo. He's also raw, both need considerable reps and seasoning.
Phillips has a significant concussions issue, not interested.
I really disagree. Feel Paye is much more explosive. Better at pass rushing, in pretty much every facet. Stromger at the point, as well. I see an impact Edge, and more NFL ready than Rousseau.
much about the kid at all, I did have one question though. If he is such a touted prospect why did it not reflect in his stats? Was it the scheme? He has only 23.5 TFL's and 11.5 sacks in 4 seasons.
I think a lot of that is the way they used him, often in the interior. If he was 100% edge you'd see more on the stat line
I posted a month ago as my son was Kwity high school coach at Bishop Hendricken HS in RI . We have remained close to Kwity throughout his Michigan career and have assisted him in the pre draft process including his selection of an agent. Needless to say, we both think the world of Kwity. He is currently at the EXOS facility in Arizona preparing for his pro day at Michigan. He will most likely have a phenomenal 3 cone drill and will be one of the fastest DE/DL/Edges in the draft at 6’3 1/2 272 lbs and this past season was said to be the biggest physical freak in college football
At Michigan he played multiple positions from 1 to 3 to 5 to 7 tech....as a result of his versatility in being moved around his sacks were lower but his QB pressures this year were among the best in the country inspite of him being dinged up and missing a several games....he has been called the best spread run defender in college football and this has become a necessity in today NFL....the scheme at Michigan had a bit to do with Kwity sack total I suspect.
As a longtime Giants fan I realize we need help at edge, WR, TE, OL and CB and while I have a bit of insight into the high regard that Kwity is held in by many NFL teams I am the first to admit that I am biased when it comes to Kwity..we fans are aware of the indiscretions that some of our recent draftees have experienced in terms of maturity and misguided personal decisions....the GMEN would never have to worry about Kwity off the field or on the field....I urge you all to simply google ESPN Gameday Kwity Paye to see if glimpse of the character this young man possesses. While we will have great options at 11 we could do a lot worse than Kwity Paye. He is a talented , mature, dedicated football player with a bright NFL career ahead of him .
Hawkman, how would you assess him as a pass rushing edge standing up at 3-4 OLB?
Kwity can play either as he can play weak or strong side off edge and yet is stout against the run.... he can play in space as an OLB
He has an incredible athleticism.... ran the 100 and was the anchor on the 4x relay in high school....he is a student of the game ...very cerebral....very versatile which many pro teams like about him...he is a home run hitter on D and you never have enough playmakers ... high skill set, remarkable athleticism at his size, impeccable character....
Kwity can play either as he can play weak or strong side off edge and yet is stout against the run.... he can play in space as an OLB
He has an incredible athleticism.... ran the 100 and was the anchor on the 4x relay in high school....he is a student of the game ...very cerebral....very versatile which many pro teams like about him...he is a home run hitter on D and you never have enough playmakers ... high skill set, remarkable athleticism at his size, impeccable character....
Home run hitter? Where?
Over 28 career games played: 11.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 0 passes defended/knocked down. He led Michigan in tackles for losses in '19, but Hutchinson, Uche, Glasgow, etc were still there.
In '18, Bush, Gary, Winovich, and Uche were more productive.
So I'm all ears where this "special talent" demonstrated all of this "home run" ability actually on the field.
Kwity can play either as he can play weak or strong side off edge and yet is stout against the run.... he can play in space as an OLB
He has an incredible athleticism.... ran the 100 and was the anchor on the 4x relay in high school....he is a student of the game ...very cerebral....very versatile which many pro teams like about him...he is a home run hitter on D and you never have enough playmakers ... high skill set, remarkable athleticism at his size, impeccable character....
Home run hitter? Where?
Over 28 career games played: 11.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 0 passes defended/knocked down. He led Michigan in tackles for losses in '19, but Hutchinson, Uche, Glasgow, etc were still there.
In '18, Bush, Gary, Winovich, and Uche were more productive.
So I'm all ears where this "special talent" demonstrated all of this "home run" ability actually on the field.
You know, evaluating a player is more than just looking at stat lines. If you watch him, he's very impressive.
his length and AA pop when you watch him play, higher upside imo. He's also raw, both need considerable reps and seasoning.
Phillips has a significant concussions issue, not interested.
I really disagree. Feel Paye is much more explosive. Better at pass rushing, in pretty much every facet. Stromger at the point, as well. I see an impact Edge, and more NFL ready than Rousseau.
He's more stout and stronger at the point of attack, but I don't see him as great in space, which limits his versatility to playing mostly downhill. More ready than Rousseau isn't a great point considering the latter played one season. Upside on Rousseau looks higher, look at the AA, length, and ability to close on the football. He's so smooth it looks easy for him.
at this draft class the more I'm leaning towards taking a defensive playmaker in the first. Unless we can land Chase, Smith or Pitts I wouldnt look at WR until the second round. There are sooo many good WRs in this draft, Toney, Bateman, Marlon Williams, Amari Rodgers. One of these guys is going to be there with our second pick. The drop off at the edge position is much bigger after the top half of the first round.
RE: RE: Rousseau is more athletic, more multiple and diverse
I really disagree. Feel Paye is much more explosive. Better at pass rushing, in pretty much every facet. Stromger at the point, as well. I see an impact Edge, and more NFL ready than Rousseau.
As much as I hate to disagree with JonC, I'm with you here, Jim. I think Paye is much more explosive than Rousseau.
And a shoutout to Hawkman, thanks for posting, and keep us updated on Paye's progress. As I said, I'm not advocating for him at 11, but it would be foolish to rule him out.
Yes. But stats also matter. And Paye played positions where you can make plays that translate into statistical performance.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
Good one.
Miami lined Rousseau all over the place, btw. And he made plays basically from every position. That's what real production looks like.
I'd love to see the snap breakdown on the two players. If you compare the two, Paye is clearly the better player, I don't think it's particularly close.
But hey, this reminda of of the guys that swore to me Laquon Treadwell was going to be a star when I insisted he was going to be a bust.
Or when you swore up and down to me that there was no way the Giants would draft Barkley at 2.
Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. I do think Paye has the edge in overall athleticism, though.
Paye has more pop in his game, but watch the fluidity and how easy Rousseau moves in and around traffic from every position. He moves like a much smaller athlete, rare movement skills for his size and length.
Yes. But stats also matter. And Paye played positions where you can make plays that translate into statistical performance.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
Uncalled for.
Oh stop, Nancy. BW and I have gone toe to toe on the draft for several years and he's been, let's just say, very passionate in his opinions. He can handle it.
RE: RE: RE: I didn't say Rousseau was more explosive
Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. I do think Paye has the edge in overall athleticism, though.
Paye has more pop in his game, but watch the fluidity and how easy Rousseau moves in and around traffic from every position. He moves like a much smaller athlete, rare movement skills for his size and length.
I don't think his bend or get-off is very good. We already drafted thie same guy, except his name is Lorenzo Carter.
he's not what I'd call a natural pass rusher, but he's more athletic and multiple than Carter. Paye is very mechanical, it's part of his being raw and the questions from draftniks regarding his ceiling in the NFL.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
he's not what I'd call a natural pass rusher, but he's more athletic and multiple than Carter. Paye is very mechanical, it's part of his being raw and the questions from draftniks regarding his ceiling in the NFL.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Winovich, Uche? The problem with Funny Helmets has been Don Brown on Defense & 1990 game plans on offense . Paye is a definite possibility at 11.
he's not what I'd call a natural pass rusher, but he's more athletic and multiple than Carter. Paye is very mechanical, it's part of his being raw and the questions from draftniks regarding his ceiling in the NFL.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Winovich, Uche? The problem with Funny Helmets has been Don Brown on Defense & 1990 game plans on offense . Paye is a definite possibility at 11.
Winovich looks like a solid player, Uche did close to zero as a rookie. Not great counterpoints, imo.
1. I'm not sure Graham and Judge will view edge rusher as a premium position. I could be completely wrong but the way things looked in 2020 don't belie mindset. It looked to me like they want powerful edge setters more than long and lean types.
2. I'm not sure edge rusher is a premium position league wide the way it used to be. The emphasis on passing games is on short drops and off schedule plays, which limits the effectiveness of a traditional edge guy in the Osi mold.
2. I'm not sure edge rusher is a premium position league wide the way it used to be. The emphasis on passing games is on short drops and off schedule plays, which limits the effectiveness of a traditional edge guy in the Osi mold.
It's important, but I think cover corner and linebackers who can cover and run sideline to sideline are more important (that LB, btw, is very hard to find...see Levonte David). And just for the reason you cited - the short area passing game with bubble screens, check downs, quick curls, etc. You just need better coverage, better speed, and surer tackling.
If anything, you need DEs who are disciplined at setting the edge and not allowing mobile QBs from getting outside the pocket on ad-lib plays.
There's a recent article from Sharp Football that backs up what you're saying:
Quote:
Depth of Target
The average depth of target has continued to decrease, but it’s not all about just throwing shorter passes. NFL offenses, for the most part, have figured out ways to leverage the distance of pass attempts for their advantage. Even as the league-wide aDOT dipped below 8.0 yards in 2020, NFL teams threw at or behind the line of scrimmage at the lowest rate over the past five seasons.
Percentage of Pass Attempts Behind Line Of Scrimmage, 2016-2020
YEAR BEHIND LINE %
2016 19.1%
2017 20.2%
2018 22.2%
2019 19.3%
2020 18.6%
That was a plus for passing efficiency, since throws at or behind the line averaged -0.07 Expected Points Added per attempt in 2020. Running back rushing attempts averaged -0.04 EPA per attempt last season.
Offenses have gotten better at throwing to the short and intermediate parts of the field. EPA per attempt has gone up on throws between 1-10 yards past the line of scrimmage and throws from 11-19 yards past the line remain the most efficient by target depth.
What also stands out is how passing offenses cut down on the number of deep passes (20 or more air yards) but got better production from them in 2020. Completion rates have slowly risen over the past few seasons while the rate of overall passes then went deep has dropped. In 2020, 38.6% of passes that traveled at least 20 air yards were completed (an at least five-year-high) but only 10.5% of attempts went deep (at least a five-year-low).
I've mentioned a few times, given how NE (and the Rams and the Titans) have built their defenses in recent years strong up the middle front and back emphasis, less emphasis on OLBs.
It wouldn't preclude them from wanting a legit impact Edge talent, but they've got a blueprint with or without one (or two).
Anybody have an opinion on Dayo Odeyingbo, DT/Edge, Vanderbilt? Has played NT, DT, DE. His versatility must be intriguing for the Giants.
excellent details. I'm getting excited about this kid.
I think he was misused a bit at UM. They moved him all over the line, and he too often got caught up in the wash. Some of that is his lack of experience, but I think if he lined up strictly on edge (either side), his sack totals would have been much higher. I'm not advocating taking him at 11, but he is a really interesting prospect.
Like Rashan Gary? Out of Michigan and was taken 12th overall in 2019 by Green Bay and he played in 35 games (started only 4 games) and has a total of 63 tackles in 2 years (including the playoffs). And he was taken 12th overall!!
Michigan defense might not have gaudy stats in college but Gary has worse in the pros.
I think Paye is a better prospect than him
Fortunately for him you're nobody and your knowledge of him or lack there of doesn't mean squat.
At Michigan he played multiple positions from 1 to 3 to 5 to 7 tech....as a result of his versatility in being moved around his sacks were lower but his QB pressures this year were among the best in the country inspite of him being dinged up and missing a several games....he has been called the best spread run defender in college football and this has become a necessity in today NFL....the scheme at Michigan had a bit to do with Kwity sack total I suspect.
As a longtime Giants fan I realize we need help at edge, WR, TE, OL and CB and while I have a bit of insight into the high regard that Kwity is held in by many NFL teams I am the first to admit that I am biased when it comes to Kwity..we fans are aware of the indiscretions that some of our recent draftees have experienced in terms of maturity and misguided personal decisions....the GMEN would never have to worry about Kwity off the field or on the field....I urge you all to simply google ESPN Gameday Kwity Paye to see if glimpse of the character this young man possesses. While we will have great options at 11 we could do a lot worse than Kwity Paye. He is a talented , mature, dedicated football player with a bright NFL career ahead of him .
Yes, great insight and I will check out ESPN Gameday Kwity Paye
Quote:
but do well in the NFL. Chase Winovich and Josh Uche are doing well for New England. This kid has more talent. Providence RI native and a Bishop Hendricken product.
Like Rashan Gary? Out of Michigan and was taken 12th overall in 2019 by Green Bay and he played in 35 games (started only 4 games) and has a total of 63 tackles in 2 years (including the playoffs). And he was taken 12th overall!!
Michigan defense might not have gaudy stats in college but Gary has worse in the pros.
Gary was GB's best defensive player in 2020 down the stretch
Phillips has a significant concussions issue, not interested.
I really disagree. Feel Paye is much more explosive. Better at pass rushing, in pretty much every facet. Stromger at the point, as well. I see an impact Edge, and more NFL ready than Rousseau.
I think a lot of that is the way they used him, often in the interior. If he was 100% edge you'd see more on the stat line
At Michigan he played multiple positions from 1 to 3 to 5 to 7 tech....as a result of his versatility in being moved around his sacks were lower but his QB pressures this year were among the best in the country inspite of him being dinged up and missing a several games....he has been called the best spread run defender in college football and this has become a necessity in today NFL....the scheme at Michigan had a bit to do with Kwity sack total I suspect.
As a longtime Giants fan I realize we need help at edge, WR, TE, OL and CB and while I have a bit of insight into the high regard that Kwity is held in by many NFL teams I am the first to admit that I am biased when it comes to Kwity..we fans are aware of the indiscretions that some of our recent draftees have experienced in terms of maturity and misguided personal decisions....the GMEN would never have to worry about Kwity off the field or on the field....I urge you all to simply google ESPN Gameday Kwity Paye to see if glimpse of the character this young man possesses. While we will have great options at 11 we could do a lot worse than Kwity Paye. He is a talented , mature, dedicated football player with a bright NFL career ahead of him .
Hawkman, how would you assess him as a pass rushing edge standing up at 3-4 OLB?
He has an incredible athleticism.... ran the 100 and was the anchor on the 4x relay in high school....he is a student of the game ...very cerebral....very versatile which many pro teams like about him...he is a home run hitter on D and you never have enough playmakers ... high skill set, remarkable athleticism at his size, impeccable character....
He has an incredible athleticism.... ran the 100 and was the anchor on the 4x relay in high school....he is a student of the game ...very cerebral....very versatile which many pro teams like about him...he is a home run hitter on D and you never have enough playmakers ... high skill set, remarkable athleticism at his size, impeccable character....
Home run hitter? Where?
Over 28 career games played: 11.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 0 passes defended/knocked down. He led Michigan in tackles for losses in '19, but Hutchinson, Uche, Glasgow, etc were still there.
In '18, Bush, Gary, Winovich, and Uche were more productive.
So I'm all ears where this "special talent" demonstrated all of this "home run" ability actually on the field.
Quote:
Kwity can play either as he can play weak or strong side off edge and yet is stout against the run.... he can play in space as an OLB
He has an incredible athleticism.... ran the 100 and was the anchor on the 4x relay in high school....he is a student of the game ...very cerebral....very versatile which many pro teams like about him...he is a home run hitter on D and you never have enough playmakers ... high skill set, remarkable athleticism at his size, impeccable character....
Home run hitter? Where?
Over 28 career games played: 11.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 0 passes defended/knocked down. He led Michigan in tackles for losses in '19, but Hutchinson, Uche, Glasgow, etc were still there.
In '18, Bush, Gary, Winovich, and Uche were more productive.
So I'm all ears where this "special talent" demonstrated all of this "home run" ability actually on the field.
You know, evaluating a player is more than just looking at stat lines. If you watch him, he's very impressive.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
Quote:
his length and AA pop when you watch him play, higher upside imo. He's also raw, both need considerable reps and seasoning.
Phillips has a significant concussions issue, not interested.
I really disagree. Feel Paye is much more explosive. Better at pass rushing, in pretty much every facet. Stromger at the point, as well. I see an impact Edge, and more NFL ready than Rousseau.
He's more stout and stronger at the point of attack, but I don't see him as great in space, which limits his versatility to playing mostly downhill. More ready than Rousseau isn't a great point considering the latter played one season. Upside on Rousseau looks higher, look at the AA, length, and ability to close on the football. He's so smooth it looks easy for him.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
I really disagree. Feel Paye is much more explosive. Better at pass rushing, in pretty much every facet. Stromger at the point, as well. I see an impact Edge, and more NFL ready than Rousseau.
As much as I hate to disagree with JonC, I'm with you here, Jim. I think Paye is much more explosive than Rousseau.
And a shoutout to Hawkman, thanks for posting, and keep us updated on Paye's progress. As I said, I'm not advocating for him at 11, but it would be foolish to rule him out.
Quote:
Yes. But stats also matter. And Paye played positions where you can make plays that translate into statistical performance.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
Good one.
Miami lined Rousseau all over the place, btw. And he made plays basically from every position. That's what real production looks like.
Quote:
In comment 15162122 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Yes. But stats also matter. And Paye played positions where you can make plays that translate into statistical performance.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
Good one.
Miami lined Rousseau all over the place, btw. And he made plays basically from every position. That's what real production looks like.
I'd love to see the snap breakdown on the two players. If you compare the two, Paye is clearly the better player, I don't think it's particularly close.
But hey, this reminda of of the guys that swore to me Laquon Treadwell was going to be a star when I insisted he was going to be a bust.
Or when you swore up and down to me that there was no way the Giants would draft Barkley at 2.
Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. I do think Paye has the edge in overall athleticism, though.
Quote:
Yes. But stats also matter. And Paye played positions where you can make plays that translate into statistical performance.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
Quote:
for the record ...
Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. I do think Paye has the edge in overall athleticism, though.
Paye has more pop in his game, but watch the fluidity and how easy Rousseau moves in and around traffic from every position. He moves like a much smaller athlete, rare movement skills for his size and length.
Quote:
In comment 15162122 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Yes. But stats also matter. And Paye played positions where you can make plays that translate into statistical performance.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
Uncalled for.
Oh stop, Nancy. BW and I have gone toe to toe on the draft for several years and he's been, let's just say, very passionate in his opinions. He can handle it.
Quote:
In comment 15162165 JonC said:
Quote:
for the record ...
Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. I do think Paye has the edge in overall athleticism, though.
Paye has more pop in his game, but watch the fluidity and how easy Rousseau moves in and around traffic from every position. He moves like a much smaller athlete, rare movement skills for his size and length.
I don't think his bend or get-off is very good. We already drafted thie same guy, except his name is Lorenzo Carter.
I'm quite sure I can link them with a bit of effort.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Winovich, Uche? The problem with Funny Helmets has been Don Brown on Defense & 1990 game plans on offense . Paye is a definite possibility at 11.
I won't be upset if the Giants add a kid like this.
Quote:
he's not what I'd call a natural pass rusher, but he's more athletic and multiple than Carter. Paye is very mechanical, it's part of his being raw and the questions from draftniks regarding his ceiling in the NFL.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Winovich, Uche? The problem with Funny Helmets has been Don Brown on Defense & 1990 game plans on offense . Paye is a definite possibility at 11.
Winovich looks like a solid player, Uche did close to zero as a rookie. Not great counterpoints, imo.
2. I'm not sure edge rusher is a premium position league wide the way it used to be. The emphasis on passing games is on short drops and off schedule plays, which limits the effectiveness of a traditional edge guy in the Osi mold.
2. I'm not sure edge rusher is a premium position league wide the way it used to be. The emphasis on passing games is on short drops and off schedule plays, which limits the effectiveness of a traditional edge guy in the Osi mold.
It's important, but I think cover corner and linebackers who can cover and run sideline to sideline are more important (that LB, btw, is very hard to find...see Levonte David). And just for the reason you cited - the short area passing game with bubble screens, check downs, quick curls, etc. You just need better coverage, better speed, and surer tackling.
If anything, you need DEs who are disciplined at setting the edge and not allowing mobile QBs from getting outside the pocket on ad-lib plays.
The average depth of target has continued to decrease, but it’s not all about just throwing shorter passes. NFL offenses, for the most part, have figured out ways to leverage the distance of pass attempts for their advantage. Even as the league-wide aDOT dipped below 8.0 yards in 2020, NFL teams threw at or behind the line of scrimmage at the lowest rate over the past five seasons.
Percentage of Pass Attempts Behind Line Of Scrimmage, 2016-2020
YEAR BEHIND LINE %
2016 19.1%
2017 20.2%
2018 22.2%
2019 19.3%
2020 18.6%
That was a plus for passing efficiency, since throws at or behind the line averaged -0.07 Expected Points Added per attempt in 2020. Running back rushing attempts averaged -0.04 EPA per attempt last season.
Offenses have gotten better at throwing to the short and intermediate parts of the field. EPA per attempt has gone up on throws between 1-10 yards past the line of scrimmage and throws from 11-19 yards past the line remain the most efficient by target depth.
What also stands out is how passing offenses cut down on the number of deep passes (20 or more air yards) but got better production from them in 2020. Completion rates have slowly risen over the past few seasons while the rate of overall passes then went deep has dropped. In 2020, 38.6% of passes that traveled at least 20 air yards were completed (an at least five-year-high) but only 10.5% of attempts went deep (at least a five-year-low).
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It wouldn't preclude them from wanting a legit impact Edge talent, but they've got a blueprint with or without one (or two).