Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. I do think Paye has the edge in overall athleticism, though.
Paye has more pop in his game, but watch the fluidity and how easy Rousseau moves in and around traffic from every position. He moves like a much smaller athlete, rare movement skills for his size and length.
Yes. But stats also matter. And Paye played positions where you can make plays that translate into statistical performance.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
Uncalled for.
Oh stop, Nancy. BW and I have gone toe to toe on the draft for several years and he's been, let's just say, very passionate in his opinions. He can handle it.
RE: RE: RE: I didn't say Rousseau was more explosive
Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. I do think Paye has the edge in overall athleticism, though.
Paye has more pop in his game, but watch the fluidity and how easy Rousseau moves in and around traffic from every position. He moves like a much smaller athlete, rare movement skills for his size and length.
I don't think his bend or get-off is very good. We already drafted thie same guy, except his name is Lorenzo Carter.
he's not what I'd call a natural pass rusher, but he's more athletic and multiple than Carter. Paye is very mechanical, it's part of his being raw and the questions from draftniks regarding his ceiling in the NFL.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
he's not what I'd call a natural pass rusher, but he's more athletic and multiple than Carter. Paye is very mechanical, it's part of his being raw and the questions from draftniks regarding his ceiling in the NFL.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Winovich, Uche? The problem with Funny Helmets has been Don Brown on Defense & 1990 game plans on offense . Paye is a definite possibility at 11.
he's not what I'd call a natural pass rusher, but he's more athletic and multiple than Carter. Paye is very mechanical, it's part of his being raw and the questions from draftniks regarding his ceiling in the NFL.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Winovich, Uche? The problem with Funny Helmets has been Don Brown on Defense & 1990 game plans on offense . Paye is a definite possibility at 11.
Winovich looks like a solid player, Uche did close to zero as a rookie. Not great counterpoints, imo.
1. I'm not sure Graham and Judge will view edge rusher as a premium position. I could be completely wrong but the way things looked in 2020 don't belie mindset. It looked to me like they want powerful edge setters more than long and lean types.
2. I'm not sure edge rusher is a premium position league wide the way it used to be. The emphasis on passing games is on short drops and off schedule plays, which limits the effectiveness of a traditional edge guy in the Osi mold.
2. I'm not sure edge rusher is a premium position league wide the way it used to be. The emphasis on passing games is on short drops and off schedule plays, which limits the effectiveness of a traditional edge guy in the Osi mold.
It's important, but I think cover corner and linebackers who can cover and run sideline to sideline are more important (that LB, btw, is very hard to find...see Levonte David). And just for the reason you cited - the short area passing game with bubble screens, check downs, quick curls, etc. You just need better coverage, better speed, and surer tackling.
If anything, you need DEs who are disciplined at setting the edge and not allowing mobile QBs from getting outside the pocket on ad-lib plays.
There's a recent article from Sharp Football that backs up what you're saying:
Quote:
Depth of Target
The average depth of target has continued to decrease, but it’s not all about just throwing shorter passes. NFL offenses, for the most part, have figured out ways to leverage the distance of pass attempts for their advantage. Even as the league-wide aDOT dipped below 8.0 yards in 2020, NFL teams threw at or behind the line of scrimmage at the lowest rate over the past five seasons.
Percentage of Pass Attempts Behind Line Of Scrimmage, 2016-2020
YEAR BEHIND LINE %
2016 19.1%
2017 20.2%
2018 22.2%
2019 19.3%
2020 18.6%
That was a plus for passing efficiency, since throws at or behind the line averaged -0.07 Expected Points Added per attempt in 2020. Running back rushing attempts averaged -0.04 EPA per attempt last season.
Offenses have gotten better at throwing to the short and intermediate parts of the field. EPA per attempt has gone up on throws between 1-10 yards past the line of scrimmage and throws from 11-19 yards past the line remain the most efficient by target depth.
What also stands out is how passing offenses cut down on the number of deep passes (20 or more air yards) but got better production from them in 2020. Completion rates have slowly risen over the past few seasons while the rate of overall passes then went deep has dropped. In 2020, 38.6% of passes that traveled at least 20 air yards were completed (an at least five-year-high) but only 10.5% of attempts went deep (at least a five-year-low).
I've mentioned a few times, given how NE (and the Rams and the Titans) have built their defenses in recent years strong up the middle front and back emphasis, less emphasis on OLBs.
It wouldn't preclude them from wanting a legit impact Edge talent, but they've got a blueprint with or without one (or two).
Quote:
Yes. But stats also matter. And Paye played positions where you can make plays that translate into statistical performance.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
Quote:
for the record ...
Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. I do think Paye has the edge in overall athleticism, though.
Paye has more pop in his game, but watch the fluidity and how easy Rousseau moves in and around traffic from every position. He moves like a much smaller athlete, rare movement skills for his size and length.
Quote:
In comment 15162122 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Yes. But stats also matter. And Paye played positions where you can make plays that translate into statistical performance.
It’s not like he was one an island like a great cover corner and teams just didn’t throw his way.
I certainly see his athleticism. But that doesn’t mean he’s a productive football player.
You're ognoring they lined him up all over the line, even at the Nose.
Anyway, who cares. You're wrong all yhe yime, and you're wrong again, what else is new.
Uncalled for.
Oh stop, Nancy. BW and I have gone toe to toe on the draft for several years and he's been, let's just say, very passionate in his opinions. He can handle it.
Quote:
In comment 15162165 JonC said:
Quote:
for the record ...
Sorry, didn’t mean to misquote you. I do think Paye has the edge in overall athleticism, though.
Paye has more pop in his game, but watch the fluidity and how easy Rousseau moves in and around traffic from every position. He moves like a much smaller athlete, rare movement skills for his size and length.
I don't think his bend or get-off is very good. We already drafted thie same guy, except his name is Lorenzo Carter.
I'm quite sure I can link them with a bit of effort.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Winovich, Uche? The problem with Funny Helmets has been Don Brown on Defense & 1990 game plans on offense . Paye is a definite possibility at 11.
I won't be upset if the Giants add a kid like this.
Quote:
he's not what I'd call a natural pass rusher, but he's more athletic and multiple than Carter. Paye is very mechanical, it's part of his being raw and the questions from draftniks regarding his ceiling in the NFL.
Harbaugh's program isn't exactly stacking Edge talent in the NFL either.
Winovich, Uche? The problem with Funny Helmets has been Don Brown on Defense & 1990 game plans on offense . Paye is a definite possibility at 11.
Winovich looks like a solid player, Uche did close to zero as a rookie. Not great counterpoints, imo.
2. I'm not sure edge rusher is a premium position league wide the way it used to be. The emphasis on passing games is on short drops and off schedule plays, which limits the effectiveness of a traditional edge guy in the Osi mold.
2. I'm not sure edge rusher is a premium position league wide the way it used to be. The emphasis on passing games is on short drops and off schedule plays, which limits the effectiveness of a traditional edge guy in the Osi mold.
It's important, but I think cover corner and linebackers who can cover and run sideline to sideline are more important (that LB, btw, is very hard to find...see Levonte David). And just for the reason you cited - the short area passing game with bubble screens, check downs, quick curls, etc. You just need better coverage, better speed, and surer tackling.
If anything, you need DEs who are disciplined at setting the edge and not allowing mobile QBs from getting outside the pocket on ad-lib plays.
The average depth of target has continued to decrease, but it’s not all about just throwing shorter passes. NFL offenses, for the most part, have figured out ways to leverage the distance of pass attempts for their advantage. Even as the league-wide aDOT dipped below 8.0 yards in 2020, NFL teams threw at or behind the line of scrimmage at the lowest rate over the past five seasons.
Percentage of Pass Attempts Behind Line Of Scrimmage, 2016-2020
YEAR BEHIND LINE %
2016 19.1%
2017 20.2%
2018 22.2%
2019 19.3%
2020 18.6%
That was a plus for passing efficiency, since throws at or behind the line averaged -0.07 Expected Points Added per attempt in 2020. Running back rushing attempts averaged -0.04 EPA per attempt last season.
Offenses have gotten better at throwing to the short and intermediate parts of the field. EPA per attempt has gone up on throws between 1-10 yards past the line of scrimmage and throws from 11-19 yards past the line remain the most efficient by target depth.
What also stands out is how passing offenses cut down on the number of deep passes (20 or more air yards) but got better production from them in 2020. Completion rates have slowly risen over the past few seasons while the rate of overall passes then went deep has dropped. In 2020, 38.6% of passes that traveled at least 20 air yards were completed (an at least five-year-high) but only 10.5% of attempts went deep (at least a five-year-low).
Link - ( New Window )
It wouldn't preclude them from wanting a legit impact Edge talent, but they've got a blueprint with or without one (or two).