NFT: Knicks Chat -- 5th in the East

In comment 15162599 Mike from SI said:

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On how the Knicks should use Quick more Link - ( New Window )

It’s really been my only gripe with Thibs. IQ might be our second most important player behind Randle and it takes Thibs forever to get him into the game, especially in the third quarter. I don’t even care as much as others about Payton starting - just wish he got a quicker hook.

In comment 15162599 Mike from SI said:

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On how the Knicks should use Quick more Link - ( New Window )

Great read.

In comment 15162599 Mike from SI said:

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On how the Knicks should use Quick more Link - ( New Window )

thank you for posting. The part about the starting lineup (with Mitch) being the most heavily played lineup in the league is not surprising....yet troubling. Payton is a decidedly below average PG and RJ is unplayable at times. I can't think of a reason why Thibs wouldn't want to mix in some other players with the RJ/Mitch/Bullock (or Burks) lineup. Unless that starting 5 is the key to our top 5 defense? I for one would like to find out if we could maintain the defensive efficiency while mixing in some better offensive players with our best player.

& I agree...Unleash IQ.

BBIer's have been making on Knicks threads - with data.

That said, there seems to be some kind of method to Thibs' madness. What could be called stubbornness may be his idea of how to bring the team along. Remember, in the preseason and in the early season, a lot of the same BBIer's on here were saying the Knicks were bottom 3 in the NBA in terms of talent, if not the very worst roster. Now, IQ was a lesser-known quantity at that point, but it's not just IQ. The Knicks are probably going to be a playoff team (IMO) and I don't think anyone here saw that coming. Thibs is a good coach - and we know he wanted to be in New York, which by itself is refreshing.

If someone told me back in November that come the beginning of March, the Knicks would be in the postseason hunt, I wouldn't have believed it. It's been a fun season. Thibs has righted the ship. Let's keep it going!

"His brothers (agent) are cancer, you don’t want that. There is a reason every team wants to trade him sooner rather than later."

-NBA Agent on Kristaps Porzingis

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In comment 15162678 nygiants16 said:

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Got a bunch of cousins who are Cs fans. They're starting to get itchy on Ainge. A lot of them feel that this team-considering all the talent/draft capital-has underperformed these past few years. Not even a Finals appearance. Right now, I'd take Rozier or Hayward over Kemba.

In comment 15162680 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 15162678 nygiants16 said: Quote: .. Got a bunch of cousins who are Cs fans. They're starting to get itchy on Ainge. A lot of them feel that this team-considering all the talent/draft capital-has underperformed these past few years. Not even a Finals appearance. Right now, I'd take Rozier or Hayward over Kemba.

They have no depth, Tatum and Brown are very good but thebpieces around jist dont fit to me..

Why are you starting tristan thompson and Theis?? there is no spacing

Yup. After Tatum/Brown-who are excellent-it's a bunch of JAG. I still think they'll eventually right the ship, but they're not even in the same league as the Nets, 76ers, or probably Bucks.

In comment 15162649 Del Shofner said:

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BBIer's have been making on Knicks threads - with data. That said, there seems to be some kind of method to Thibs' madness. What could be called stubbornness may be his idea of how to bring the team along. Remember, in the preseason and in the early season, a lot of the same BBIer's on here were saying the Knicks were bottom 3 in the NBA in terms of talent, if not the very worst roster. Now, IQ was a lesser-known quantity at that point, but it's not just IQ. The Knicks are probably going to be a playoff team (IMO) and I don't think anyone here saw that coming. Thibs is a good coach - and we know he wanted to be in New York, which by itself is refreshing.

I am definitely one of those people. I did not appreciate that Randle would make the leap or that Quick would be this amazing, and as much as you guys dislike him, RJ has definitely improved over last year. Guilty as charged, and happy about it!

In comment 15162684 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Yup. After Tatum/Brown-who are excellent-it's a bunch of JAG. I still think they'll eventually right the ship, but they're not even in the same league as the Nets, 76ers, or probably Bucks.

and as we talk they are now leading..

from Kemba.

I drafted him as the last guy on my fantasy roster and have had him since, so I really pay attention to him a lot during the games. I won't deny he's had some terrible games, and he's definitely maddeningly inconsistent, but I truly believe there's something there. His FT% has ticked up and his shot looks like it can develop to me. He def has some trouble as a team defender but as a one-on-one defender I think he generally looks pretty good. (My bias is I think you can improve upon team defense easier but I think one-on-one defense relies more on innate athleticism that cannot be taught.) I don't think anyone would deny he's a good rebounder.

My biggest complaint with our guards overall is they don't make our big men better. Yeah, we see the occasional ally opp but a guy like Obi is begging for a legit PG. It is frustrating seeing Obi try to set a pick and then run to the corner of the court. I know the game has changed but I think we can take advantage of that. Obi seems like he can post players up and that can open up 3 point shots for others. I am not saying we need to run that often but I'd like to see him involved more offensively.

What I see on offense is a lot of horizontal movement by our guards with our bigs trying to set picks. If there is any true penetration it seems our guards always shoot. I'd like to see Obi post up and get the ball in good position, kick the ball out if necessary, drop the ball back in, etc. Make the D double and find the open man. Again, not all the time but some times.

That is why I keep saying this team needs another PG. I want someone to get the bigs involved. This is also a direct reason why people criticize Randle, myself included. He handles the ball too much and has some really bad turnovers. With that said, what other big besides Lebron handles the ball as often? Not many. Randle is basically forced to pick up the slack because we don't have guards that create for others. The guards starting are better because they play with Randle.

In comment 15162727 robbieballs2003 said:

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My biggest complaint with our guards overall is they don't make our big men better. Yeah, we see the occasional ally opp but a guy like Obi is begging for a legit PG. It is frustrating seeing Obi try to set a pick and then run to the corner of the court. I know the game has changed but I think we can take advantage of that. Obi seems like he can post players up and that can open up 3 point shots for others. I am not saying we need to run that often but I'd like to see him involved more offensively. What I see on offense is a lot of horizontal movement by our guards with our bigs trying to set picks. If there is any true penetration it seems our guards always shoot. I'd like to see Obi post up and get the ball in good position, kick the ball out if necessary, drop the ball back in, etc. Make the D double and find the open man. Again, not all the time but some times. That is why I keep saying this team needs another PG. I want someone to get the bigs involved. This is also a direct reason why people criticize Randle, myself included. He handles the ball too much and has some really bad turnovers. With that said, what other big besides Lebron handles the ball as often? Not many. Randle is basically forced to pick up the slack because we don't have guards that create for others. The guards starting are better because they play with Randle.

The "true" point guard is not really around anymore, it is more team game, ball in your best players hands, with scoring guards..

Warrios best example, Draymond is their point guard, he sets everything up..

Most teams do not have a point

In comment 15162730 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15162727 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: My biggest complaint with our guards overall is they don't make our big men better. Yeah, we see the occasional ally opp but a guy like Obi is begging for a legit PG. It is frustrating seeing Obi try to set a pick and then run to the corner of the court. I know the game has changed but I think we can take advantage of that. Obi seems like he can post players up and that can open up 3 point shots for others. I am not saying we need to run that often but I'd like to see him involved more offensively. What I see on offense is a lot of horizontal movement by our guards with our bigs trying to set picks. If there is any true penetration it seems our guards always shoot. I'd like to see Obi post up and get the ball in good position, kick the ball out if necessary, drop the ball back in, etc. Make the D double and find the open man. Again, not all the time but some times. That is why I keep saying this team needs another PG. I want someone to get the bigs involved. This is also a direct reason why people criticize Randle, myself included. He handles the ball too much and has some really bad turnovers. With that said, what other big besides Lebron handles the ball as often? Not many. Randle is basically forced to pick up the slack because we don't have guards that create for others. The guards starting are better because they play with Randle. The "true" point guard is not really around anymore, it is more team game, ball in your best players hands, with scoring guards.. Warrios best example, Draymond is their point guard, he sets everything up.. Most teams do not have a point

I know what you are saying but that doesn't mean this team doesn't need a guard who will create for others. I don't care what the norm is. This team is begging for a guard to help our bigs out. Barrett and Randle have to create their own shots. Obi sits in the corner of the court.

I think with Obi he is still figuring out when to roll and when to pop..

Randle gets set up a lot, he is just not a spot up shooter, he likes to dribble into his shots..

Rj is not a spot up guy, he needs to create his shots, rose set him for a few 3s last night and he knocked them down..

I think Rose and Quickley are scoring guards yes but their scoring opens up the offense for everyone around them because teams have to account for them..

Payton at point teams jist leave him alone they dont care..

In comment 15162741 nygiants16 said:

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I think with Obi he is still figuring out when to roll and when to pop.. Randle gets set up a lot, he is just not a spot up shooter, he likes to dribble into his shots.. Rj is not a spot up guy, he needs to create his shots, rose set him for a few 3s last night and he knocked them down.. I think Rose and Quickley are scoring guards yes but their scoring opens up the offense for everyone around them because teams have to account for them.. Payton at point teams jist leave him alone they dont care..

You are contradicting the RJ opinion. I think it is way too early to classify him as anything. You said he needs to create his own shot but then say he knocked down some spot up shots. I think RJ can create his own shot but doesn't need to create his own shot. I think his game keeps evolving. If he can consistently do what he did last night that is a huge plus.

Also, I don't think comparing us to the Warriors is valid. The Warriors are a completely different team than we are. I think we need to be realistic about where we are at and what our biggest need is. You and most others feel a 2 is the biggest need. I am not arguing against that. It is valid. I just have a different take. I think a guy like Bullock and Quickley can handle that spot. Another point guard that can breakdown a D and dish is something that would help everybody out. It doesn't need to be a true PG. It can be a combo guard.

I know people look at Quickley and say he can be the point. Yes, he can. However, to me he is a better shooter than facilitator. I look at him as a player that can be the point if situations dictate that but I'd rather him as a 2 guard, combo guard.

Rose was a step in the right direction. He shoots a lot but that is okay because he gets others involved and sets them up in good positions. Basically, another player that is like a younger Rose would be more beneficial than having Payton. And, like you, I am not a Payton fan. Let me rephrase that. He seems like a good dude. He does his job. I like him as a professional. I just don't like his fit om this team. His game doesn't compliment the others on this roster imo. That is why I keep harping on another PG. If we were able to move Payton and a second to get a guard that can break down a D and open up easier shots for others would be welcomed with open arms.

In comment 15162744 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 15162741 nygiants16 said: Quote: I think with Obi he is still figuring out when to roll and when to pop.. Randle gets set up a lot, he is just not a spot up shooter, he likes to dribble into his shots.. Rj is not a spot up guy, he needs to create his shots, rose set him for a few 3s last night and he knocked them down.. I think Rose and Quickley are scoring guards yes but their scoring opens up the offense for everyone around them because teams have to account for them.. Payton at point teams jist leave him alone they dont care.. You are contradicting the RJ opinion. I think it is way too early to classify him as anything. You said he needs to create his own shot but then say he knocked down some spot up shots. I think RJ can create his own shot but doesn't need to create his own shot. I think his game keeps evolving. If he can consistently do what he did last night that is a huge plus. Also, I don't think comparing us to the Warriors is valid. The Warriors are a completely different team than we are. I think we need to be realistic about where we are at and what our biggest need is. You and most others feel a 2 is the biggest need. I am not arguing against that. It is valid. I just have a different take. I think a guy like Bullock and Quickley can handle that spot. Another point guard that can breakdown a D and dish is something that would help everybody out. It doesn't need to be a true PG. It can be a combo guard. I know people look at Quickley and say he can be the point. Yes, he can. However, to me he is a better shooter than facilitator. I look at him as a player that can be the point if situations dictate that but I'd rather him as a 2 guard, combo guard.

Yeah my rj point was contradicting, should of seperated the points, i dont think Rj being a spot up guy is the best way to use him, even though he knocked down a couple of spot up shots last night, normally he creates for hinself..

I agree about quickley, he is a scoring guard

My point about the warriors was simply Draymond as the 4 man runs the offense

that would have to be defended. And in return that makes his overall game better. Think about it. He loves to drive. There is no better time to drive than when you get a pass and are wide open. You have defenders running right at you. That would make him more efficient when he drives then. Right now he dribbles into double teams and still does fairly well.

In Free agency if the price is right.
Only 25 and seems to be getting better with GS floor spacing.

Would Chris Paul be willing to sign a 1 year deal here? I'm assuming no. If he was to sign a one year deal you'd have to assume it is with a contender. With that said, wasn't there a rumor he wanted to come here?

In comment 15162759 robbieballs2003 said:

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Would Chris Paul be willing to sign a 1 year deal here? I'm assuming no. If he was to sign a one year deal you'd have to assume it is with a contender. With that said, wasn't there a rumor he wanted to come here?

Yeah another Rose/ WWW guy.
I could see him staying in phoenix.

17 points
6 assists
2 Blocks
7/13
27 minutes

Meh... what about bringing in Doug McDermott to play some 3 and D at the SF position and Dennis Schroder at PG with Quick?

In comment 15162783 TommyWiseau said:

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Meh... what about bringing in Doug McDermott to play some 3 and D at the SF position and Dennis Schroder at PG with Quick?

Macri suggested Kyle Lowrie 2/50 mill contract. That would be interesting.

In comment 15162757 larryflower37 said:

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In Free agency if the price is right. Only 25 and seems to be getting better with GS floor spacing.

Pass. He doesn't shoot good enough.

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In comment 15162794 adamg said:

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He has really stepped up his 3 ball this year. If he keeps it up he could be a possibility. Lowry is interesting but he will be 35, maybe going younger is the better bet

In comment 15162795 TommyWiseau said:

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In comment 15162794 adamg said: Quote: . He has really stepped up his 3 ball this year. If he keeps it up he could be a possibility. Lowry is interesting but he will be 35, maybe going younger is the better bet

I really like what I read here. I haven't watched him much but the way he is described leads me to believe he's the tyoe of player we need. Hitting around 40% from 3, turnovers have decreased, has a great rapport with his big (Zion), is getting better at penetrating and getting to the line, and there was a blurb that his defense was good.
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could actually be called a big game.

Here's the Post on whether Frank will get more burn..
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Not rooting for him tonight obviously, but I love Sabonis' game.

as an RFA target, given Portland’s high payroll. Still think they match his offers though. I’d rather find a shooter or two in the draft and spend some money on a Lowry or - maybe - Oladipo, if it’s a short-term commitment.

In comment 15162918 bceagle05 said:

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as an RFA target, given Portland’s high payroll. Still think they match his offers though. I’d rather find a shooter or two in the draft and spend some money on a Lowry or - maybe - Oladipo, if it’s a short-term commitment.

Poor Greg. We'd drop one Dukie (Austin Rivers) for another.

is fine, but he's closer to Bullock than not.

We need a legitimate scorer at the 2.

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saw that the Nets will be without Kyrie in tonight's game. Mavs catch a break
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This is the year to win the lottery.

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In comment 15163080 larryflower37 said:

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This is the year to win the lottery.

A pulled Doncic hammy wouldn't be the worst thing to happen...

puts up historically great offensive ratings.

In comment 15163084 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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puts up historically great offensive ratings.

KD is out

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Rose starts again

In comment 15163092 nygiants16 said:

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Rose starts again

means we see Frank again - always good for people disagreeing :-)

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I know, everybody loves IQ and, therefore, the obvious move is to start him and play him more minutes. That's why we are fans and don't get to make those decisions. Quickley is a work in progress and if you are really paying attention, you would see that he still has a bunch to learn. It is not unusual to see Thibs give IQ an earful after a questionable move or playing a little out of control. That's what rookies do and that is also why there are situations where Thibs likes Payton, Rose and even Frank to bring experience and some physical play. Quickley's time is coming and he will play a big role moving forward, but he needs to get stronger and could hit a rookie wall at some point.