It's about to be March and the Knicks are tied for 5th in the east with a starting backcourt of Elfrid Payton and Reggie Bullock.
Absolutely wild.
Frank got some run last night and did Frank things. 3 steals, a charge, but he hit a 3 and went 3-6 from the field which was an unexpected contribution. It was surprising to see him jump Austin Rivers in the rotation but I don't hate it. Wonder how Rivers feels. He's definitely a likely trade candidate. Literally the only Knick not to play last night.
We're also under a month from the deadline, so I'd expect things to heat up soon trade wise. Wiz won again so the Beal dream may be fading away, but the Rockets are 11-19 and have lost 9 in a row so I'd expect Oladipo to be moved one way or another in the next few weeks.
Rivers already said he has heard his name in rumors, they are not going to play him until he is traded now
I heard or read that Doc wanted his son to play for another coach, so there wouldn't be questions about nepotism.
I thought that too. Sounds like Rivers is getting traded and Payton may have gotten Wally Pipp-ed.
I think he just isn't that good. Not a defender, not a distributor. He's fine if he's hitting his 3s but if not he's not bringing much else to the table. He's an 8/9th man at best. He just started the season absolutely on fire but very quickly (Quickley?) regressed to the mean.
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He went off one game and then struggled and got pulled from the rotation. Is this all performance stuff or was there an injury as well?
I think he just isn't that good. Not a defender, not a distributor. He's fine if he's hitting his 3s but if not he's not bringing much else to the table. He's an 8/9th man at best. He just started the season absolutely on fire but very quickly (Quickley?) regressed to the mean.
Ah. Well done.
Crazy thing is that fans want and recognize we need more offense and particularly someone who can hit 3s and it just seemed initially to me like Rivers could fill that role.
I like Burks getting hot last night but we need more than one of these guys.
Probably a 2nd or cash. Really not much.
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He went off one game and then struggled and got pulled from the rotation. Is this all performance stuff or was there an injury as well?
I think he just isn't that good. Not a defender, not a distributor. He's fine if he's hitting his 3s but if not he's not bringing much else to the table. He's an 8/9th man at best. He just started the season absolutely on fire but very quickly (Quickley?) regressed to the mean.
he's probably a little better than that. At the very least, he was a rotation player for a very good Rockets team the last couple of years. That's more than most of our other vets can say...lol.
Regardless, he needs to go. We have a ton of guards and he's taking up a roster spot that can be used on a g-league type.
Because he didnt have to worry about playing point, he has always been better off the ball
I honestly don't think his contract is "real" after this season. There was no reason for him to lock himself into a deal that barely pays more than the minimum. My half-ass theory: Knicks had the cap space to sign him, Rockets asked if it could be a sign-and-trade so they get the trade exception, players on sign-and-trades have to sign 3 year deals, Rivers went along with it because he's a CAA guy and got an assurance the option wouldn't be picked up.
All of the above could be a bunch of bullshit, but I keep coming back to there not being a logical reason for Rivers to sign a 3 year deal for such little money.
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What surprised me is he looked better on the offensive end than the defensive end. He was a step slow most of the night. We know he is a good defender so I am not worried about that. He had the charge which was nice.
Because he didnt have to worry about playing point, he has always been better off the ball
if only we could throw Frank out there with a forward who likes to initiate the offense....
Also with them both coming off the bench it is less oppurtunity for Burks to get into the flow of the game.
Rose with the starters spreads out the scoring players and gives a punch to the starters
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In comment 15162246 robbieballs2003 said:
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What surprised me is he looked better on the offensive end than the defensive end. He was a step slow most of the night. We know he is a good defender so I am not worried about that. He had the charge which was nice.
Because he didnt have to worry about playing point, he has always been better off the ball
if only we could throw Frank out there with a forward who likes to initiate the offense....
I dont like Frank with the starters, Bullock at least is a perceived shooter to spread the floor..
we have one in 2021 and one in 2022. And we have a ton of guys who are pending free agents.
I have been saying all season Washington is not moving Beal and he wants to stay in Washington. It's been pure speculation all season.
When I look at what is available I hope the Knicks stay put and if they move anyone it is for draft capital.
(ELF for a 2nd anywhere he wants to go)
Love the rumors Dallas is looking to trade KP and Dallas continues to look lost and inconsistent.
Also with them both coming off the bench it is less opportunity for Burks to get into the flow of the game.
Rose with the starters spreads out the scoring players and gives a punch to the starters
I don't understand Tibs love for Elf. At this point, he should at the other end of the bench. We can all agree Rose and Quickley should be ahead of him on the depth chart.
I hate 2nd guessing Tibs with the way they are playing.
But Rose should help him out by trading Bullock and Elf.
He doesnt have to play 30, he can play 25 to 27 a night and be the starter
I have been saying all season Washington is not moving Beal and he wants to stay in Washington. It's been pure speculation all season.
When I look at what is available I hope the Knicks stay put and if they move anyone it is for draft capital.
(ELF for a 2nd anywhere he wants to go)
Love the rumors Dallas is looking to trade KP and Dallas continues to look lost and inconsistent.
Why does Payton need to go? Right now? No he doesn't. I don't understand this hate for Payton. He's our 2nd best pure PG. He might even be on the level of D Rose as he's probably a better defender and rebounder.
Payton is better than Frank until proven otherwise and I highly doubt Frank becomes as adept at getting to the rim as Payton. Payton is better than Rivers. By a lot. I don't care how much better Rivers is at the 3 ball, he's an injury replacement player.
Payton is good at getting to the basket. Good on defense. Decent passer. Grabs a few rebounds. The one thing he can't do is shoot but he isn't keeping anyone better on the bench. Payton is our best option right now. Why would you dump that?
Or that. Payton is the best we have right now. While I appreciate how hard he plays and how Thibs has gotten every ounce of ability out of Payton, the minute we can get an upgrade at the position I am all for his departure.
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Hopefully Frank continues to get minutes at a minimum to up his trade value.
I have been saying all season Washington is not moving Beal and he wants to stay in Washington. It's been pure speculation all season.
When I look at what is available I hope the Knicks stay put and if they move anyone it is for draft capital.
(ELF for a 2nd anywhere he wants to go)
Love the rumors Dallas is looking to trade KP and Dallas continues to look lost and inconsistent.
Why does Payton need to go? Right now? No he doesn't. I don't understand this hate for Payton. He's our 2nd best pure PG. He might even be on the level of D Rose as he's probably a better defender and rebounder.
Payton is better than Frank until proven otherwise and I highly doubt Frank becomes as adept at getting to the rim as Payton. Payton is better than Rivers. By a lot. I don't care how much better Rivers is at the 3 ball, he's an injury replacement player.
Payton is good at getting to the basket. Good on defense. Decent passer. Grabs a few rebounds. The one thing he can't do is shoot but he isn't keeping anyone better on the bench. Payton is our best option right now. Why would you dump that?
I don't look at Frank as a Point. I put Quickley at PG and Frank playing and guarding the 2.
Peyton slows the game, is up and down defensively, and takes a lot of bad shots.
He tightens up spacing and destroys the flow of the game.
I would like his minutes used by Frank, Rivers, Quickley, and Rose.
The Knicks have multiple combo guards in Quickley, Frank, and Rivers.
RJ and Randle have handled the point in certain games.
Payton is a minus player in my eyes.
What two lottery picks have played their way out of the rotation (until last night)? wing Kevin Knox and point guard Frank Ntlikina.
If Frank becomes a useful rotation player this situation is going to look a lot better. Agree with all the above: Trade Rivers, Payton, maybe Burks and/or Bullock, for whatever you can get for them. Yes, you'll win fewer games without the vets. What's the difference? This isn't a contender yet. Get more minutes for the young guys, see what you have. Barring a Randle-like recommitment to the game, Rivers/Payton/Burks/Bullock/Gibson aren't getting any better.
You add a star to this team without having to give up anything you got a real good team and maybe contender in the east
You add a star to this team without having to give up anything you got a real good team and maybe contender in the east
It's a really weak group.
Interested to see if teams overpay for the group of Vets over 32
Lowery, Conley, Paul, Derozen, Griffen, Etc.
lonk - ( New Window )
and of course the narrative about his brothers being cancers is starting to come out again
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In comment 15162292 larryflower37 said:
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Hopefully Frank continues to get minutes at a minimum to up his trade value.
I have been saying all season Washington is not moving Beal and he wants to stay in Washington. It's been pure speculation all season.
When I look at what is available I hope the Knicks stay put and if they move anyone it is for draft capital.
(ELF for a 2nd anywhere he wants to go)
Love the rumors Dallas is looking to trade KP and Dallas continues to look lost and inconsistent.
Why does Payton need to go? Right now? No he doesn't. I don't understand this hate for Payton. He's our 2nd best pure PG. He might even be on the level of D Rose as he's probably a better defender and rebounder.
Payton is better than Frank until proven otherwise and I highly doubt Frank becomes as adept at getting to the rim as Payton. Payton is better than Rivers. By a lot. I don't care how much better Rivers is at the 3 ball, he's an injury replacement player.
Payton is good at getting to the basket. Good on defense. Decent passer. Grabs a few rebounds. The one thing he can't do is shoot but he isn't keeping anyone better on the bench. Payton is our best option right now. Why would you dump that?
I don't look at Frank as a Point. I put Quickley at PG and Frank playing and guarding the 2.
Peyton slows the game, is up and down defensively, and takes a lot of bad shots.
He tightens up spacing and destroys the flow of the game.
I would like his minutes used by Frank, Rivers, Quickley, and Rose.
The Knicks have multiple combo guards in Quickley, Frank, and Rivers.
RJ and Randle have handled the point in certain games.
Payton is a minus player in my eyes.
THIS, Frank was a nice surptise out there. Would love it if he can bring another 10-15/game along with his terrific on the ball D. He was all over Halliburton and Fox last night.
Although I am not sure you can completely ignore Payton's ability to get to the hoop and put up numbers. He also has been very good defensively. Not sure Rose is much better at what he does than Payton is.
Link - ( New Window )
It’s really been my only gripe with Thibs. IQ might be our second most important player behind Randle and it takes Thibs forever to get him into the game, especially in the third quarter. I don’t even care as much as others about Payton starting - just wish he got a quicker hook.
Great read.
thank you for posting. The part about the starting lineup (with Mitch) being the most heavily played lineup in the league is not surprising....yet troubling. Payton is a decidedly below average PG and RJ is unplayable at times. I can't think of a reason why Thibs wouldn't want to mix in some other players with the RJ/Mitch/Bullock (or Burks) lineup. Unless that starting 5 is the key to our top 5 defense? I for one would like to find out if we could maintain the defensive efficiency while mixing in some better offensive players with our best player.
That said, there seems to be some kind of method to Thibs' madness. What could be called stubbornness may be his idea of how to bring the team along. Remember, in the preseason and in the early season, a lot of the same BBIer's on here were saying the Knicks were bottom 3 in the NBA in terms of talent, if not the very worst roster. Now, IQ was a lesser-known quantity at that point, but it's not just IQ. The Knicks are probably going to be a playoff team (IMO) and I don't think anyone here saw that coming. Thibs is a good coach - and we know he wanted to be in New York, which by itself is refreshing.
-NBA Agent on Kristaps Porzingis
Got a bunch of cousins who are Cs fans. They're starting to get itchy on Ainge. A lot of them feel that this team-considering all the talent/draft capital-has underperformed these past few years. Not even a Finals appearance. Right now, I'd take Rozier or Hayward over Kemba.