Let Solder come back and compete with Peart at RT. The loser is the swing tackle.
The Giants have been good to Solder, and he knows he isn't likely to get a better offer anywhere else. I think he'll be loyal to the organization here.
doesn't bother me. It could be a good thing. You're gonna eat money no matter what, might as well have the older vet tackle around. In case of emergency, break glass type deal.
For his situation(Family) I cannot imagine his heart is in it. If think he is doing what will net him the most of his remaining contract. How much money would any other team be willing to give him?
If Solder has anything left in the tank and can regain some of what he had in NE after a year off...
An OL collection of Thomas, Shane L, Will H., .N Gates, K. Zeitler, Solder, Peart, Harrison is the deepest and best collection of potential talent the Giants have had since their last Super Bowl run.
the question is pay cut or restructure meaning more tacked on beyond 2021.
Gotta be a paycut. But with no swing OT (and Peart lightly penciled in as the starting RT) they might as well try and get his base down to something close to what a swing OT would cost.
Assuming they would make him a 'June 1' cut, he's already going to cost:
2021: $6.5M cap
2022: $4.0M cap
Cutting him and adding a Fleming-level swing OT would cost $3-3.5M on top of those numbers, so if you can get Solder's base down into that range it makes sense to retain him.
If Solder has anything left in the tank and can regain some of what he had in NE after a year off...
An OL collection of Thomas, Shane L, Will H., .N Gates, K. Zeitler, Solder, Peart, Harrison is the deepest and best collection of potential talent the Giants have had since their last Super Bowl run.
Granted...there's a lot of IFs in there.
Totally agree with you. This is looking a lot better than when we were steamrolling into the season with the likes of Ereck Flowers, Bobby Hart, and John Jerry.
likely a better scenario than out right cutting him
he can be valuable as a backup or starting RT depending on how he looks in camp
That's debatable, depending on how the restructure ends up landing, in terms of any new money and/or new years and/or bonus kicked into the future that will almost definitely become dead money.
This front office has got to get out of the habit of annually kicking just a little bit of dead money into the future, because it ends up requiring the process to repeat itself in perpetuity.
So instead of rolling over cap room, we're always borrowing from next year, every year.
staying or leaving. If we can restructure his contract to be equal to or just slightly more than his current projected dead cap hit if cut I have no problem keeping him around. Might be helpful to have someone like him around Thomas and Peart from a development perspective. Judge knows Solder well from his time in NE, if he thinks he’s worth bringing back let’s do it.
the question is pay cut or restructure meaning more tacked on beyond 2021.
But we can’t wait until 1 Jun to cut him if we need Free Agent dollars now. I think restructuring will be to our benefit as they can still get rid of him after 1 Jun, if they desire, and the hit would be spread out. Probably same cap hit, but restructure gives the Giants the requisite dollars now for Free Agents or resigning LWill.
who went to battle because he didn't see what he was looking for regarding 2020 o-line technique (Belechik did the same with our friend Hal Hunter in Cleveland by the way), can get something out of his NE jump-setter pedigree and rested back.
I really believe the Mara sentimentality achievement award got removed from the trophy case and tossed in the trash bin last season when the cut Ballentine, who wasn't getting it done. Identify it as a gamble if NS is on the final 53, but there are so many changes to the surrounding cast I'm not sure I know enough about his likely ability to contribute to complain over a restructure.
Curious what exactly people think he would accept. For cap purposes he is already a sunk cost counting $10.5m for next 2 years, whether here or not. how much are you willing to pay him and guarantee it.
Is he a better option at 3M for RT than other players of which the FA market is see thru thin.
Curious what exactly people think he would accept. For cap purposes he is already a sunk cost counting $10.5m for next 2 years, whether here or not. how much are you willing to pay him and guarantee it.
Is he a better option at 3M for RT than other players of which the FA market is see thru thin.
They should try to restructure Solder and Zeitler to get their 2021 cap hits below $10M. They can do that by converting some or all of their 2021 salary to signing bonus and short extensions. Even if Thomas, Hernandez, Gates, Lemeiux and Peart are the starters in 2021, there is no guarantee these guys are much better than 2020 OL or stay healthy for 16 games. The cap is going to be much smaller in 2021, but it should be much higher in 2022, 2023 and 2024 to allow for Giants to carry more dead money. Building a winning program takes time and patience for young players to develop, but they need to keep DJ off the turf if they want to turn into a winning program.
They should try to restructure Solder and Zeitler to get their 2021 cap hits below $10M. They can do that by converting some or all of their 2021 salary to signing bonus and short extensions. Even if Thomas, Hernandez, Gates, Lemeiux and Peart are the starters in 2021, there is no guarantee these guys are much better than 2020 OL or stay healthy for 16 games. The cap is going to be much smaller in 2021, but it should be much higher in 2022, 2023 and 2024 to allow for Giants to carry more dead money. Building a winning program takes time and patience for young players to develop, but they need to keep DJ off the turf if they want to turn into a winning program.
You have to take into consideration what are you going to do with LW and DT who actually performed at a good level.
You can get a cheap replacement in the 2nd round for either Solder or Zeitler. The 2nd rd pick has the potential to perform to the level of these expensive older Olinemen. If you need to cut either- so be it. A 2nd rounder has a good shot to near equate (or better) the performance of the one that's been cut.
"not likely to be earned bonuses." For example, playing time.
This would give the Giants cap relief while giving Solder the opportunity to earn some of the renegotiated money back.
If Solder doesn't like it, the Giants will cut him.
It's a take it or leave it conversation....created by Solder's poor play in '18 and '19.
"not likely to be earned bonuses." For example, playing time.
This would give the Giants cap relief while giving Solder the opportunity to earn some of the renegotiated money back.
If Solder doesn't like it, the Giants will cut him.
It's a take it or leave it conversation....created by Solder's poor play in '18 and '19.
This would be a good option if Solder is amenable to it. Obviously the Giants have the hammer in this scenario in that they can cut him if he's not cooperative, but as some have noted in this thread, it's also possible that Mara (and the organization in general) could be hesitant to release Solder given his family issues - it's the sort of thing that the Giants would be understandably sensitive about.
Just for context, remember the Cardinals paid Kelvin Beachum $1M dollars to be their swing tackle last year, and the Giants paid Cam Fleming $3.4M dollars.
That is your going rate for a swing tackle. Both of those guys are available, and played better football when called upon than Nate Solder did in 2019.
There is absolutely no justifiable reason Nate Solder should earn more than that next year.
Re structure his contract.....Then how about letting him go to camp, battle for a position, and see what happens? If Thomas gets hurt he can play LT better then a lot of backups. I live 45 minutes from Foxboro and he played a lot of good football up here. Judge know him, trust the process..... before we throw him to the curb. Thomas played RT in college as a freshman and was real good at it. Throw the hats in the ring and let the process sort things out!
Just for context, remember the Cardinals paid Kelvin Beachum $1M dollars to be their swing tackle last year, and the Giants paid Cam Fleming $3.4M dollars.
That is your going rate for a swing tackle. Both of those guys are available, and played better football when called upon than Nate Solder did in 2019.
There is absolutely no justifiable reason Nate Solder should earn more than that next year.
Well there is actually. As of now, cutting him outright comes with a 10.5 mill cap his. If you restructure him to where he makes more than the two guys mentioned but less than that dead cap, it absolutely makes sense to bring him back for say 6/7 mill. Plus, he is a better player than both the guys you mentioned.
at best - solid RT until Peart (or draftee) can take his job, hopefully no later than next year. then he goes to the bench or off the team - that's how he has to be paid and doesn't doesn't seem consistent with pushing money forward to future contracts.
Well there is actually. As of now, cutting him outright comes with a 10.5 mill cap his. If you restructure him to where he makes more than the two guys mentioned but less than that dead cap, it absolutely makes sense to bring him back for say 6/7 mill. Plus, he is a better player than both the guys you mentioned.
That's not how it works at all.
The 10.5M dead cap the Giants would incur from cutting Solder is inescapable. That is bonus that has been paid. It will either hit all in 2021, or split between 21/22.
Nate Solder's hypothetical cap charge in 2021 will be 6.5M plus any salary.
In what world does it make sense to pay Nate Solder another 7M dollars, when the going rate for a swing tackle is far below that number?
That video christian posted... sweet football Jesus on roller skates! Solder was horrible. Yeah, this guy should just be cut. Not sure wth Giants are thinking here.
Let Solder come back and compete with Peart at RT. The loser is the swing tackle.
The Giants have been good to Solder, and he knows he isn't likely to get a better offer anywhere else. I think he'll be loyal to the organization here.
I wonder if they add voidable years. Basically a pseudo pay cut.
An OL collection of Thomas, Shane L, Will H., .N Gates, K. Zeitler, Solder, Peart, Harrison is the deepest and best collection of potential talent the Giants have had since their last Super Bowl run.
Granted...there's a lot of IFs in there.
Ellison redux with bigger numbers.
But DG and KA are dynamite at cap management.
his last full season, but neither were any of the tackles last year, or for the ten years for that matter. I hope he doesn't expect to start at LT.
Gotta be a paycut. But with no swing OT (and Peart lightly penciled in as the starting RT) they might as well try and get his base down to something close to what a swing OT would cost.
Assuming they would make him a 'June 1' cut, he's already going to cost:
2021: $6.5M cap
2022: $4.0M cap
Cutting him and adding a Fleming-level swing OT would cost $3-3.5M on top of those numbers, so if you can get Solder's base down into that range it makes sense to retain him.
Solder isn't getting starter LT $.
If he doesn't restructure then he will be released. That could cause him to move to play.
If I'm Solder, given his situation, I'd actually either restructure, stay local-ish, or retire.
Wanting to extend that pain further is egregious...
An OL collection of Thomas, Shane L, Will H., .N Gates, K. Zeitler, Solder, Peart, Harrison is the deepest and best collection of potential talent the Giants have had since their last Super Bowl run.
Granted...there's a lot of IFs in there.
Totally agree with you. This is looking a lot better than when we were steamrolling into the season with the likes of Ereck Flowers, Bobby Hart, and John Jerry.
That's debatable, depending on how the restructure ends up landing, in terms of any new money and/or new years and/or bonus kicked into the future that will almost definitely become dead money.
This front office has got to get out of the habit of annually kicking just a little bit of dead money into the future, because it ends up requiring the process to repeat itself in perpetuity.
So instead of rolling over cap room, we're always borrowing from next year, every year.
I encourage others to think the same way
But we can’t wait until 1 Jun to cut him if we need Free Agent dollars now. I think restructuring will be to our benefit as they can still get rid of him after 1 Jun, if they desire, and the hit would be spread out. Probably same cap hit, but restructure gives the Giants the requisite dollars now for Free Agents or resigning LWill.
I really believe the Mara sentimentality achievement award got removed from the trophy case and tossed in the trash bin last season when the cut Ballentine, who wasn't getting it done. Identify it as a gamble if NS is on the final 53, but there are so many changes to the surrounding cast I'm not sure I know enough about his likely ability to contribute to complain over a restructure.
Is he a better option at 3M for RT than other players of which the FA market is see thru thin.
There is always a market for OL
Is he a better option at 3M for RT than other players of which the FA market is see thru thin.
There is always a market for OL
If that is the case then trade him.
You have to take into consideration what are you going to do with LW and DT who actually performed at a good level.
You can get a cheap replacement in the 2nd round for either Solder or Zeitler. The 2nd rd pick has the potential to perform to the level of these expensive older Olinemen. If you need to cut either- so be it. A 2nd rounder has a good shot to near equate (or better) the performance of the one that's been cut.
This would give the Giants cap relief while giving Solder the opportunity to earn some of the renegotiated money back.
If Solder doesn't like it, the Giants will cut him.
It's a take it or leave it conversation....created by Solder's poor play in '18 and '19.
Worst free agent signing EVER.
This would give the Giants cap relief while giving Solder the opportunity to earn some of the renegotiated money back.
If Solder doesn't like it, the Giants will cut him.
It's a take it or leave it conversation....created by Solder's poor play in '18 and '19.
This would be a good option if Solder is amenable to it. Obviously the Giants have the hammer in this scenario in that they can cut him if he's not cooperative, but as some have noted in this thread, it's also possible that Mara (and the organization in general) could be hesitant to release Solder given his family issues - it's the sort of thing that the Giants would be understandably sensitive about.
That is your going rate for a swing tackle. Both of those guys are available, and played better football when called upon than Nate Solder did in 2019.
There is absolutely no justifiable reason Nate Solder should earn more than that next year.
That is your going rate for a swing tackle. Both of those guys are available, and played better football when called upon than Nate Solder did in 2019.
There is absolutely no justifiable reason Nate Solder should earn more than that next year.
Well there is actually. As of now, cutting him outright comes with a 10.5 mill cap his. If you restructure him to where he makes more than the two guys mentioned but less than that dead cap, it absolutely makes sense to bring him back for say 6/7 mill. Plus, he is a better player than both the guys you mentioned.
That's not how it works at all.
The 10.5M dead cap the Giants would incur from cutting Solder is inescapable. That is bonus that has been paid. It will either hit all in 2021, or split between 21/22.
Nate Solder's hypothetical cap charge in 2021 will be 6.5M plus any salary.
In what world does it make sense to pay Nate Solder another 7M dollars, when the going rate for a swing tackle is far below that number?
And you really think Solder is better? - ( New Window )
Exactly. I have all the compassion in the world for the guy. He was a champion with NE, and his child's health is an unimaginable situation.
But Solder played well in NE through his own health struggles and his son's.
I think pinning his poor play on his off-the-field life is a disservice to how well he played previously.
He's just old, not very good anymore, and playing on far less talented team, with a far less good position coach, with a far less good QB.