I agree, I liked the movie. I take these movies for what they are, good action movies. Does it make it better if the story is out of this world? Sure, but I don't need an oscar winning script on comic movies to find it enjoyable.
But Superman is such a hard character to keep relevant. He has one weakness.
Look at what Marvel is doing. They slowly built up this universe that is expanding into a multiuniverse. Yes, Ironman was a great character and got people hooked but that only lasts for so long. You have to build up these villains. The way they all connect and how they plan so far ahead and leave easter eggs is amazing. They really did a great job.
Now, going back to Superman, with the constant saturation or superheroes today you need more tham their superpowers to keep people interested. Personally, I have not been a fan of the Spiderman movies. I see that happening with Superman. I has just been beaten down our throats and unless the story is top notch then it isn't going to be that appealing.
UConn, I probably didn't word that the way I wanted to now that I read it, the script should be good enough, but to me it doesn't need to be amazing to enjoy. If it is amazing then all the better, as robbie pointed out, Marvel has done an amazing job at this. It's a shame that DC felt so rushed to get Justice League out as opposed to building things up more a la Marvel. With that said, I'm excited to see the Snyder cut of that movie.
That is why Lex Luther was a great villain for Superman
Because he could use kryptonite but it more the mind games he plays with Superman. That was why people loved Heath Ledger's joker. Yes, Ledger did an amazing job but the mind fuck was awesome.
There's something about all of Snyder's films that feel claustrophobic, like even the biggest set pieces are confined to a warehouse or something. But the Smallville battle scene was really well done and perfectly conveyed how God-like the Kryptonians really are.
...Now he's going to drive another franchise into the ground?
I don't know if he sucks, but you can make a case that he's overrated. The last Star Wars movie was utterly forgettable. But he's got plenty of hits in his resume.
I'd kill to have Christopher Nolan direct 3 Superman movies.
and not really the directors fault if they can't execute their full vision based on studio demands.
I like Abrams, i almost think its becoming cliche to hate him. Felicity, Alias, Lost, and Fringe to start his TV career, which led to Mission Impossible 3, Star Trek and Super 8.
Not many out there have a resume like that and I won't hammer him for star wars since the politics at Disney are through the roof and I doubt he was able to deploy his full vision.
I wish he'd go back to smaller projects, these big budget mega IP movies have almost no upside.
You have 3 franchises developing in a similar timeframe
in Marvel, Star Wars, and DC. It is amazing how well Marvel has hit out of the park and how terribly the other 2 have failed. Marvel mapped out at least a decade worth of movies before they started. I'm sure a lot changed along the way, but they had a start point, and end point, and idea of what happened in the middle and even stories that chronologically precede the first movie (Iron Man) they made. There are plenty of those easter eggs and post credit scenes that referenced movies and stories that were years away. That is planning.
Star Wars just decided they will make 3 movies and call it a trilogy. Abrams was put in charge, but after completely overseeing the first (a decent movie) he gives up writing and directing to someone else. He may have produced, but he had nothing to do with the 2nd movie and he hadn't already mapped out 3 movies. So, what we got were 3 disjointed movies with the 3rd existing primarily to undo the 2nd and ended up sucking even more. No plan, and that is only for 3 movies.
Now, you have DC, which had loosely related movies for Superman and Batman and with them together. They clearly were trying to do what Marvel did, but did so on the fly. Instead of mapping out a clear path, they made a movie and then tried to make another movie loosely tied to the first, etc. To muddy the waters further, they vastly expanded their universe on TV. They still clearly have no plan, in that they have a new, stand alone reboot of Batman and seem to be doing the same with Superman.
As some pointed out, at this point, fans will just stop caring. It's no longer telling a story and becoming just making an action movie on it's own with the same characters over and over.
was really a gap filler, IMO. Mandalorian was great, Rogue One was awesome, and now we are getting additional animated series, + Bobba Fett and others. I think now that there's an actual plan in place the SW franchise is back to being premier IP.
With franchises this big, I feel like the script is written by a marketing and PR team.
Thats what these new Star Wars felt like.
I think the same thing happens in video games. Even if you bring in guys like Abrams and Coates, the marketing and PR guys are going to get a pass at the script and it's going to end up very different.
RE: You have 3 franchises developing in a similar timeframe
As some pointed out, at this point, fans will just stop caring. It's no longer telling a story and becoming just making an action movie on it's own with the same characters over and over.
That sounds like what happened with the X-Men movies and their loose continuity.
Don’t be so close minded, he has a history with Ryan coogler, and has written both black panther and captain America comics. The script might actually be good.
J.J. Abrams actually has a very good track record. And Coates is an excellent writer. As a pair they might provide just the right mix to get this done.
If we're being honest with ourselves, there hasn't been a worthwhile live action Superman film in 40 years - the potential to do something fresh and something great with this character still exists.
And I don't blame Henry Cavill for those movies, he's a good actor and he did what he could with what he was given. I think it's fair to say the same for Affleck's Batman.
I feel likeJJ Abrams has good ideas but gets bored...
in Marvel, Star Wars, and DC. It is amazing how well Marvel has hit out of the park and how terribly the other 2 have failed. Marvel mapped out at least a decade worth of movies before they started. I'm sure a lot changed along the way, but they had a start point, and end point, and idea of what happened in the middle and even stories that chronologically precede the first movie (Iron Man) they made. There are plenty of those easter eggs and post credit scenes that referenced movies and stories that were years away. That is planning.
Star Wars just decided they will make 3 movies and call it a trilogy. Abrams was put in charge, but after completely overseeing the first (a decent movie) he gives up writing and directing to someone else. He may have produced, but he had nothing to do with the 2nd movie and he hadn't already mapped out 3 movies. So, what we got were 3 disjointed movies with the 3rd existing primarily to undo the 2nd and ended up sucking even more. No plan, and that is only for 3 movies.
Now, you have DC, which had loosely related movies for Superman and Batman and with them together. They clearly were trying to do what Marvel did, but did so on the fly. Instead of mapping out a clear path, they made a movie and then tried to make another movie loosely tied to the first, etc. To muddy the waters further, they vastly expanded their universe on TV. They still clearly have no plan, in that they have a new, stand alone reboot of Batman and seem to be doing the same with Superman.
As some pointed out, at this point, fans will just stop caring. It's no longer telling a story and becoming just making an action movie on it's own with the same characters over and over.
I generally agree, but that's not exactly what happened.
Marvel hoped it would have more films after Iron Man, but that film was a huge roll of the dice. Remember that at that time, the "hot" Marvel characters were the characters that had been sold off: X-Men, Fantastic Four and Spider-Man. The rest were thought to be "minor" characters that nobody was interested in. They left the door open to more films but they didn't have their plan yet at that point. The success of Iron Man told them they could plan for "Phase 1." Their continuing success let them REALLY plan. And having been in their offices about 8 years ago, and seen their whiteboard with future plans, I can tell you that the plan is very fluid. They are developing a number of films at any given time and they don't always move forward with the next one on their list. Depends on how things are going.
Early on, DC gave huge deference to Christopher Nolan and his vision of Batman, which didn't lend itself to true superheroes like Superman or Green Lantern. After the success of "Avengers," DC was looking for "their Joss Whedon" to oversee the franchise. They thought they'd found that in Zach Snyder. Umm... not as far as I'm concerned. Maybe the Snyder cut will vindicate that decision. As far as I'm concerned, wrong choice. But then again, Joss Whedon had his own problems.
All along, DC was thriving in TV while Marvel wasn't. The DC and Marvel guys used to tease each other about that. Now Marvel seems to have traction with "WandaVision." Star Wars too, with "The Mandalorian."
I love superhero stuff but it's a little like loving triple cheeseburgers. You want one now and then but you don't want them to be the only thing on the menu. I'm sort of suped-out. I'm not the only one.
Gotta go now, there are some really good films on Netflix I'd like to watch. None of them in English.
They definitely have had better success both in their TV series'(Arrow, Flash, Legends, etc.) and their DC animated features. The Flashpoint Paradox movie is perhaps my favorite of all of them and culminated in a really, really good one in Apokolips War.
I'm eager to see how the Snyder cut of JL turns out and hoping it can sort of put their cinematic universe back on track. Plus DC has the Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline that they can try to do on the big screen. Merge all the various versions of Superman, Batman, WW, etc. Then have a big reset ala the New 52.
in Marvel, Star Wars, and DC. It is amazing how well Marvel has hit out of the park and how terribly the other 2 have failed. Marvel mapped out at least a decade worth of movies before they started. I'm sure a lot changed along the way, but they had a start point, and end point, and idea of what happened in the middle and even stories that chronologically precede the first movie (Iron Man) they made. There are plenty of those easter eggs and post credit scenes that referenced movies and stories that were years away. That is planning.
Star Wars just decided they will make 3 movies and call it a trilogy. Abrams was put in charge, but after completely overseeing the first (a decent movie) he gives up writing and directing to someone else. He may have produced, but he had nothing to do with the 2nd movie and he hadn't already mapped out 3 movies. So, what we got were 3 disjointed movies with the 3rd existing primarily to undo the 2nd and ended up sucking even more. No plan, and that is only for 3 movies.
Now, you have DC, which had loosely related movies for Superman and Batman and with them together. They clearly were trying to do what Marvel did, but did so on the fly. Instead of mapping out a clear path, they made a movie and then tried to make another movie loosely tied to the first, etc. To muddy the waters further, they vastly expanded their universe on TV. They still clearly have no plan, in that they have a new, stand alone reboot of Batman and seem to be doing the same with Superman.
As some pointed out, at this point, fans will just stop caring. It's no longer telling a story and becoming just making an action movie on it's own with the same characters over and over.
I generally agree, but that's not exactly what happened.
Marvel hoped it would have more films after Iron Man, but that film was a huge roll of the dice. Remember that at that time, the "hot" Marvel characters were the characters that had been sold off: X-Men, Fantastic Four and Spider-Man. The rest were thought to be "minor" characters that nobody was interested in. They left the door open to more films but they didn't have their plan yet at that point. The success of Iron Man told them they could plan for "Phase 1." Their continuing success let them REALLY plan. And having been in their offices about 8 years ago, and seen their whiteboard with future plans, I can tell you that the plan is very fluid. They are developing a number of films at any given time and they don't always move forward with the next one on their list. Depends on how things are going.
Early on, DC gave huge deference to Christopher Nolan and his vision of Batman, which didn't lend itself to true superheroes like Superman or Green Lantern. After the success of "Avengers," DC was looking for "their Joss Whedon" to oversee the franchise. They thought they'd found that in Zach Snyder. Umm... not as far as I'm concerned. Maybe the Snyder cut will vindicate that decision. As far as I'm concerned, wrong choice. But then again, Joss Whedon had his own problems.
All along, DC was thriving in TV while Marvel wasn't. The DC and Marvel guys used to tease each other about that. Now Marvel seems to have traction with "WandaVision." Star Wars too, with "The Mandalorian."
I love superhero stuff but it's a little like loving triple cheeseburgers. You want one now and then but you don't want them to be the only thing on the menu. I'm sort of suped-out. I'm not the only one.
Gotta go now, there are some really good films on Netflix I'd like to watch. None of them in English.
Was DC(are they) really thriving on TV? I know there shows may be popular with teens, but I tried to watch some of their shows with my daughter, and they are so terrible.
Would be great if they could scrap all that, and start fresh from HBO MAX, or elsewhere.
So it does seem like this will be a new actor which makes more sense.
Shadow Act - ( New Window )
I agree, I liked the movie. I take these movies for what they are, good action movies. Does it make it better if the story is out of this world? Sure, but I don't need an oscar winning script on comic movies to find it enjoyable.
Look at what Marvel is doing. They slowly built up this universe that is expanding into a multiuniverse. Yes, Ironman was a great character and got people hooked but that only lasts for so long. You have to build up these villains. The way they all connect and how they plan so far ahead and leave easter eggs is amazing. They really did a great job.
Now, going back to Superman, with the constant saturation or superheroes today you need more tham their superpowers to keep people interested. Personally, I have not been a fan of the Spiderman movies. I see that happening with Superman. I has just been beaten down our throats and unless the story is top notch then it isn't going to be that appealing.
Just my two cents.
There's something about all of Snyder's films that feel claustrophobic, like even the biggest set pieces are confined to a warehouse or something. But the Smallville battle scene was really well done and perfectly conveyed how God-like the Kryptonians really are.
Did you not like the new Star Trek movies?
Quote:
...Now he's going to drive another franchise into the ground?
Did you not like the new Star Trek movies?
I didn't like the Wrath of Khan one. The first one was good.
I don't know if he sucks, but you can make a case that he's overrated. The last Star Wars movie was utterly forgettable. But he's got plenty of hits in his resume.
I'd kill to have Christopher Nolan direct 3 Superman movies.
Thats what these new Star Wars felt like.
I like Abrams, i almost think its becoming cliche to hate him. Felicity, Alias, Lost, and Fringe to start his TV career, which led to Mission Impossible 3, Star Trek and Super 8.
Not many out there have a resume like that and I won't hammer him for star wars since the politics at Disney are through the roof and I doubt he was able to deploy his full vision.
I wish he'd go back to smaller projects, these big budget mega IP movies have almost no upside.
Star Wars just decided they will make 3 movies and call it a trilogy. Abrams was put in charge, but after completely overseeing the first (a decent movie) he gives up writing and directing to someone else. He may have produced, but he had nothing to do with the 2nd movie and he hadn't already mapped out 3 movies. So, what we got were 3 disjointed movies with the 3rd existing primarily to undo the 2nd and ended up sucking even more. No plan, and that is only for 3 movies.
Now, you have DC, which had loosely related movies for Superman and Batman and with them together. They clearly were trying to do what Marvel did, but did so on the fly. Instead of mapping out a clear path, they made a movie and then tried to make another movie loosely tied to the first, etc. To muddy the waters further, they vastly expanded their universe on TV. They still clearly have no plan, in that they have a new, stand alone reboot of Batman and seem to be doing the same with Superman.
As some pointed out, at this point, fans will just stop caring. It's no longer telling a story and becoming just making an action movie on it's own with the same characters over and over.
Thats what these new Star Wars felt like.
I think the same thing happens in video games. Even if you bring in guys like Abrams and Coates, the marketing and PR guys are going to get a pass at the script and it's going to end up very different.
As some pointed out, at this point, fans will just stop caring. It's no longer telling a story and becoming just making an action movie on it's own with the same characters over and over.
That sounds like what happened with the X-Men movies and their loose continuity.
Don’t be so close minded, he has a history with Ryan coogler, and has written both black panther and captain America comics. The script might actually be good.
If we're being honest with ourselves, there hasn't been a worthwhile live action Superman film in 40 years - the potential to do something fresh and something great with this character still exists.
And I don't blame Henry Cavill for those movies, he's a good actor and he did what he could with what he was given. I think it's fair to say the same for Affleck's Batman.
Like Lost, or Super 8, or the SW trilogy... he doesn't finish the story.
Well, in the case of Super 8, Star Trek and SW, he basically boosts the plot from elsewhere, and then doesn't see it through to conclusion.
Super 8 = ET, Star Trek sequel is Wrath of Khan (soooo freakin lazy doing that) and SW 7 = original SW (I guess it's called A New Hope now).
Star Wars just decided they will make 3 movies and call it a trilogy. Abrams was put in charge, but after completely overseeing the first (a decent movie) he gives up writing and directing to someone else. He may have produced, but he had nothing to do with the 2nd movie and he hadn't already mapped out 3 movies. So, what we got were 3 disjointed movies with the 3rd existing primarily to undo the 2nd and ended up sucking even more. No plan, and that is only for 3 movies.
Now, you have DC, which had loosely related movies for Superman and Batman and with them together. They clearly were trying to do what Marvel did, but did so on the fly. Instead of mapping out a clear path, they made a movie and then tried to make another movie loosely tied to the first, etc. To muddy the waters further, they vastly expanded their universe on TV. They still clearly have no plan, in that they have a new, stand alone reboot of Batman and seem to be doing the same with Superman.
As some pointed out, at this point, fans will just stop caring. It's no longer telling a story and becoming just making an action movie on it's own with the same characters over and over.
Marvel hoped it would have more films after Iron Man, but that film was a huge roll of the dice. Remember that at that time, the "hot" Marvel characters were the characters that had been sold off: X-Men, Fantastic Four and Spider-Man. The rest were thought to be "minor" characters that nobody was interested in. They left the door open to more films but they didn't have their plan yet at that point. The success of Iron Man told them they could plan for "Phase 1." Their continuing success let them REALLY plan. And having been in their offices about 8 years ago, and seen their whiteboard with future plans, I can tell you that the plan is very fluid. They are developing a number of films at any given time and they don't always move forward with the next one on their list. Depends on how things are going.
Early on, DC gave huge deference to Christopher Nolan and his vision of Batman, which didn't lend itself to true superheroes like Superman or Green Lantern. After the success of "Avengers," DC was looking for "their Joss Whedon" to oversee the franchise. They thought they'd found that in Zach Snyder. Umm... not as far as I'm concerned. Maybe the Snyder cut will vindicate that decision. As far as I'm concerned, wrong choice. But then again, Joss Whedon had his own problems.
All along, DC was thriving in TV while Marvel wasn't. The DC and Marvel guys used to tease each other about that. Now Marvel seems to have traction with "WandaVision." Star Wars too, with "The Mandalorian."
I love superhero stuff but it's a little like loving triple cheeseburgers. You want one now and then but you don't want them to be the only thing on the menu. I'm sort of suped-out. I'm not the only one.
Gotta go now, there are some really good films on Netflix I'd like to watch. None of them in English.
I'm eager to see how the Snyder cut of JL turns out and hoping it can sort of put their cinematic universe back on track. Plus DC has the Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline that they can try to do on the big screen. Merge all the various versions of Superman, Batman, WW, etc. Then have a big reset ala the New 52.
Quote:
in Marvel, Star Wars, and DC. It is amazing how well Marvel has hit out of the park and how terribly the other 2 have failed. Marvel mapped out at least a decade worth of movies before they started. I'm sure a lot changed along the way, but they had a start point, and end point, and idea of what happened in the middle and even stories that chronologically precede the first movie (Iron Man) they made. There are plenty of those easter eggs and post credit scenes that referenced movies and stories that were years away. That is planning.
Star Wars just decided they will make 3 movies and call it a trilogy. Abrams was put in charge, but after completely overseeing the first (a decent movie) he gives up writing and directing to someone else. He may have produced, but he had nothing to do with the 2nd movie and he hadn't already mapped out 3 movies. So, what we got were 3 disjointed movies with the 3rd existing primarily to undo the 2nd and ended up sucking even more. No plan, and that is only for 3 movies.
Now, you have DC, which had loosely related movies for Superman and Batman and with them together. They clearly were trying to do what Marvel did, but did so on the fly. Instead of mapping out a clear path, they made a movie and then tried to make another movie loosely tied to the first, etc. To muddy the waters further, they vastly expanded their universe on TV. They still clearly have no plan, in that they have a new, stand alone reboot of Batman and seem to be doing the same with Superman.
As some pointed out, at this point, fans will just stop caring. It's no longer telling a story and becoming just making an action movie on it's own with the same characters over and over.
I generally agree, but that's not exactly what happened.
Marvel hoped it would have more films after Iron Man, but that film was a huge roll of the dice. Remember that at that time, the "hot" Marvel characters were the characters that had been sold off: X-Men, Fantastic Four and Spider-Man. The rest were thought to be "minor" characters that nobody was interested in. They left the door open to more films but they didn't have their plan yet at that point. The success of Iron Man told them they could plan for "Phase 1." Their continuing success let them REALLY plan. And having been in their offices about 8 years ago, and seen their whiteboard with future plans, I can tell you that the plan is very fluid. They are developing a number of films at any given time and they don't always move forward with the next one on their list. Depends on how things are going.
Early on, DC gave huge deference to Christopher Nolan and his vision of Batman, which didn't lend itself to true superheroes like Superman or Green Lantern. After the success of "Avengers," DC was looking for "their Joss Whedon" to oversee the franchise. They thought they'd found that in Zach Snyder. Umm... not as far as I'm concerned. Maybe the Snyder cut will vindicate that decision. As far as I'm concerned, wrong choice. But then again, Joss Whedon had his own problems.
All along, DC was thriving in TV while Marvel wasn't. The DC and Marvel guys used to tease each other about that. Now Marvel seems to have traction with "WandaVision." Star Wars too, with "The Mandalorian."
I love superhero stuff but it's a little like loving triple cheeseburgers. You want one now and then but you don't want them to be the only thing on the menu. I'm sort of suped-out. I'm not the only one.
Gotta go now, there are some really good films on Netflix I'd like to watch. None of them in English.
Was DC(are they) really thriving on TV? I know there shows may be popular with teens, but I tried to watch some of their shows with my daughter, and they are so terrible.
Would be great if they could scrap all that, and start fresh from HBO MAX, or elsewhere.