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“Leonard Williams has played well since going through the unusual journey of Jets to Giants. He impacts the game,” Tannenbaum said. “He gets doubled a lot … sometimes for defensive linemen it’s hard to quantify what someone’s production is beyond the sacks. He’s a great example of it. I see him as a young, ascending player with pass rush ability who draws a double team.” “They have a lot of holes on this team, we all know that. To say we’re going to fortify the defensive line, I think that’s a great place to start,” Tannenbaum said. “While Tom Brady got the headlines, when you look at Tampa Bay, they had a really deep defensive line. To keep both to me is not out of the question.” “You want to send the right message to the locker room that, hey, Tomlinson was drafted there, he’s been a good player, let’s face it, he’s not an elite player, but he’s a good, solid player and it send the right message that hey look, when you do the right things you’re going to be rewarded.’’ |
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Tannenbaum compared Jones’ development to that of New York Jets quarterback Sam Darnold, who may or may not be with the Jets for 2021. Tannenbaum said Jones is “clearly ahead” of Darnold, although “compelling” arguments can be made on either side of the “are the Giants right to stick with Jones” debate. “I think his ceiling has shown to be higher than Sam’s. They both have the same problem with turnovers and questionable decision-making, but his athleticism shows up,” Tannenbaum said. “He’s a great athlete and that shows up, that translates. You see a lot of good things and if you believe in the axiom that the tape sets the floor and the character sets the ceiling, boy you want to bet on this guy.” Tannenbaum compared Jones’ development to that of New York Jets quarterback Sam Darnold, who may or may not be with the Jets for 2021. Tannenbaum said Jones is “clearly ahead” of Darnold, although “compelling” arguments can be made on either side of the “are the Giants right to stick with Jones” debate. “I think his ceiling has shown to be higher than Sam’s. They both have the same problem with turnovers and questionable decision-making, but his athleticism shows up,” Tannenbaum said. “He’s a great athlete and that shows up, that translates. You see a lot of good things and if you believe in the axiom that the tape sets the floor and the character sets the ceiling, boy you want to bet on this guy.” “At some point greatness is gonna show up. Let’s go! Take the team over and show that you’re a great quarterback,” Tannenbaum said. “There’s always going to be excuses … I think he’s flashed, but at some point we need to see it multiple weeks in a row.” |
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“I really like and respect Dave a ton. It’s a tough seat to sit in, it just is. There’s no getting around it,” Tannenbaum said “I think he has the right personality for the job. In that market Dave’s disposition actually serves him well. He really doesn’t care what other people think. Some of us say it, but he actually means it and I think that’s really important.” Tannenbaum said there is “some legitimacy” to arguments against some of Gettleman’s major decisions, but indicated 2021 can wipe some of that away. |
Sorry he is right about DG - I despise the guy but how can you argue with his last statement?
Secondly, I'd like to know how he feels how Giants have the money to keep both LW and DT. Roughly suppose that is $33m - $34m to sign both. DO they have it?
PFF seemed to suggest the GMEN could sign Golladay, DT, and Ngakoue. If the GMEN have that much money then sure they can sign LW and DT. I don't see how they have that though. Do they? Unless massive cuts and many restructures? ANd at what point is is it worth it for DT's?
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seem more genuine. And his comments on Gettleman are more "forced" trying to give a pass to a former peer.
Sorry he is right about DG - I despise the guy but how can you argue with his last statement?
Secondly, I'd like to know how he feels how Giants have the money to keep both LW and DT. Roughly suppose that is $33m - $34m to sign both. DO they have it?
PFF seemed to suggest the GMEN could sign Golladay, DT, and Ngakoue. If the GMEN have that much money then sure they can sign LW and DT. I don't see how they have that though. Do they? Unless massive cuts and many restructures? ANd at what point is is it worth it for DT's?
Honestly? Only the league/Abrams/DG know, imv
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In comment 15162933 Jimmy Googs said:
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seem more genuine. And his comments on Gettleman are more "forced" trying to give a pass to a former peer.
Sorry he is right about DG - I despise the guy but how can you argue with his last statement?
Secondly, I'd like to know how he feels how Giants have the money to keep both LW and DT. Roughly suppose that is $33m - $34m to sign both. DO they have it?
PFF seemed to suggest the GMEN could sign Golladay, DT, and Ngakoue. If the GMEN have that much money then sure they can sign LW and DT. I don't see how they have that though. Do they? Unless massive cuts and many restructures? ANd at what point is is it worth it for DT's?
Honestly? Only the league/Abrams/DG know, imv
So, --- honestly -- GMEN might not have the money, right? As a result, despite what he says -- one may have to go, right?
Agree about LW. I often forget about how young he is. Sign him if you can.
Is Mr. T saying that because DT was drafted by the Giants and DT has been a good, but not elite player (his words) that the team owes him a contract? That doesn’t make any sense to me. Pay for performance. Elite players get elite contracts. I will say, I think the Giants should try to keep LW and DT but I guess I’m just not big on the idea of rewarding a guy just because you drafted him. In fact, I think that’s actually a bad message.
On Jones, the “athleticism” I actually don’t see it. Mahomes, L-Jax, Kyler, AR, Russ and even Dak appear to me as QBs that use their “athleticism” to make plays and win games. I’ve seen all of Jones’ snaps in the NFL and he doesn’t seem to me to have much in common with the athleticism of the leagues’ elite QBs. I’m not saying Jones hasn’t made some plays with his legs, especially running the ball, but when teams game plan against Jones I don’t think they’re worried about his athleticism in anywhere near the way they worry about the elite athletic QBs. I do think Jones would beat Darnold in a sprint (as long as he didn’t trip). Sorry, DJ, that was a bit of a cheap shot. But anyway, to me, Jones’ athleticism is way over sold. Is he better than Darnold? I mean, isn’t that the proverbial tallest midget contest?
Mr. T saying that Getty doesn’t care about what people say sounds a lot like, “everyone says Getty sucks but Dave doesn’t care”. Here again,I don’t read that as some sort of endorsement for the lousy record Getty’s put together in three seasons.
I remember watching MT on Hard Knocks and thinking, this guys not a very good GM. (And yeah, fully admit wtf do I know and it’s just TV). Idk, it’s interesting to see what a professional GM thinks about the Giants. Thanks to the poster. But I’m not really pumped up with confidence reading what Mr T has to say about our team.
Well, he did come to us with a reputation of being smart and quick-thinking in addition to his hard work ethic. Hopefully, as you opine, that ULTIMATELY translates into better decision-making. Fingers crossed.
Please don't take offense. When you say "who knows" - so maybe then we don't have enough money, right?
And you can figure out all on your own when / if a GM is worried? You can't.
IMo you're trying awfully hard here to not want to talk about a subject you just want to wait on. That's cool. But I'm sure there are subjects you love to speculate on-- as I'm doing here. I'm not as much speculating as "asking." ANd if the answer is what you're saying is "who knows" then it's possible we don't.
So, my question was a simple one-- it's possible we don't have $33m - $34m, right? It's a yes or no question. As a result, in terms of speculation -- IFI IF IF that were arise -- why not speculate which one to keep? Speculation is done on here all the time. Even when we speculate on scores/ records/ how we did on the draft etc. If you aren't interested in this-- fine. Move on. Don't take what I said the wrong way.
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“You want to send the right message to the locker room that, hey, Tomlinson was drafted there, he’s been a good player, let’s face it, he’s not an elite player, but he’s a good, solid player and it send the right message that hey look, when you do the right things you’re going to be rewarded.’’
Agree about LW. I often forget about how young he is. Sign him if you can.
Is Mr. T saying that because DT was drafted by the Giants and DT has been a good, but not elite player (his words) that the team owes him a contract? That doesn’t make any sense to me. Pay for performance. Elite players get elite contracts. I will say, I think the Giants should try to keep LW and DT but I guess I’m just not big on the idea of rewarding a guy just because you drafted him. In fact, I think that’s actually a bad message.
On Jones, the “athleticism” I actually don’t see it. Mahomes, L-Jax, Kyler, AR, Russ and even Dak appear to me as QBs that use their “athleticism” to make plays and win games. I’ve seen all of Jones’ snaps in the NFL and he doesn’t seem to me to have much in common with the athleticism of the leagues’ elite QBs. I’m not saying Jones hasn’t made some plays with his legs, especially running the ball, but when teams game plan against Jones I don’t think they’re worried about his athleticism in anywhere near the way they worry about the elite athletic QBs. I do think Jones would beat Darnold in a sprint (as long as he didn’t trip). Sorry, DJ, that was a bit of a cheap shot. But anyway, to me, Jones’ athleticism is way over sold. Is he better than Darnold? I mean, isn’t that the proverbial tallest midget contest?
Mr. T saying that Getty doesn’t care about what people say sounds a lot like, “everyone says Getty sucks but Dave doesn’t care”. Here again,I don’t read that as some sort of endorsement for the lousy record Getty’s put together in three seasons.
I remember watching MT on Hard Knocks and thinking, this guys not a very good GM. (And yeah, fully admit wtf do I know and it’s just TV). Idk, it’s interesting to see what a professional GM thinks about the Giants. Thanks to the poster. But I’m not really pumped up with confidence reading what Mr T has to say about our team.
Re Tomlinson, what I culled from that statement, was that if you’re homegrown and produce as hoped (even if not at an elite level) you will be rewarded by the team with a new contract..Nothing deeper than that, imo.
As to DG not giving a shit what others think, I believe he was referencing what the media says or thinks. To ME, that’s a good thing. I believe he cares what his peers think as most do, imv
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Abrams/DG certainly know or at the very least have a decent idea, what it would take to get these contracts done and HOW they will have to do it. Nothing I’ve read (fwiw) would indicate to me that they’re all that worried about who to sign and how to move the money around.
Please don't take offense. When you say "who knows" - so maybe then we don't have enough money, right?
And you can figure out all on your own when / if a GM is worried? You can't.
IMo you're trying awfully hard here to not want to talk about a subject you just want to wait on. That's cool. But I'm sure there are subjects you love to speculate on-- as I'm doing here. I'm not as much speculating as "asking." ANd if the answer is what you're saying is "who knows" then it's possible we don't.
So, my question was a simple one-- it's possible we don't have $33m - $34m, right? It's a yes or no question. As a result, in terms of speculation -- IFI IF IF that were arise -- why not speculate which one to keep? Speculation is done on here all the time. Even when we speculate on scores/ records/ how we did on the draft etc. If you aren't interested in this-- fine. Move on. Don't take what I said the wrong way.
By “who knows,” I’m referring to all the different opinions out there vis a vis our cap health. Only the Giants would have a better read than any of us on this and that I would assume they plan on moving money around to whatever benefits them. From what is out there, it would APPEAR that 2022 and ‘23 is where the “embarrassment of cap riches” lie. So I do not know HOW they plan on making things work, but I will presume that THEY DO.
He has clearly dialed that part of his disposition down in the last year, probably from advice of the owners or self-reflection. Or maybe just because the team isn't winning so continuing the bravado would be a bit foolhardy.
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In comment 15162974 Big Blue '56 said:
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Abrams/DG certainly know or at the very least have a decent idea, what it would take to get these contracts done and HOW they will have to do it. Nothing I’ve read (fwiw) would indicate to me that they’re all that worried about who to sign and how to move the money around.
Please don't take offense. When you say "who knows" - so maybe then we don't have enough money, right?
And you can figure out all on your own when / if a GM is worried? You can't.
IMo you're trying awfully hard here to not want to talk about a subject you just want to wait on. That's cool. But I'm sure there are subjects you love to speculate on-- as I'm doing here. I'm not as much speculating as "asking." ANd if the answer is what you're saying is "who knows" then it's possible we don't.
So, my question was a simple one-- it's possible we don't have $33m - $34m, right? It's a yes or no question. As a result, in terms of speculation -- IFI IF IF that were arise -- why not speculate which one to keep? Speculation is done on here all the time. Even when we speculate on scores/ records/ how we did on the draft etc. If you aren't interested in this-- fine. Move on. Don't take what I said the wrong way.
By “who knows,” I’m referring to all the different opinions out there vis a vis our cap health. Only the Giants would have a better read than any of us on this and that I would assume they plan on moving money around to whatever benefits them. From what is out there, it would APPEAR that 2022 and ‘23 is where the “embarrassment of cap riches” lie. So I do not know HOW they plan on making things work, but I will presume that THEY DO.
So pertaining to this thread - it is possible that they will not do what Tannemnbaum is suggesting to keep both. That was sort of my implied 1st point. And as a result it leads to the question "which one?"
If they lose out LW -- then they a rusher in some manner. But Tannenbaum's comments are irrelevant if GMEN can't afford and possibly if they focus more on 2022 / 2023.
You take the character Mike. I'll take the talent and skill.
Weighing Jones against Darnold isn’t illustrative. Jones is ahead of a guy playing his way out of the league? Awesome. He has physical talent, but I will take issue with BB’s take. The weakest part of Jones’ games is the mental part. He seems smart, but the game does not seem intuitive to him at all. His processing of what he is seeing has to improve.
And who cares if DG cares what people think about him? What matters is whether or not he is building a solid roster. No comment on that.
Those analyses are all pretty silly.
Weighing Jones against Darnold isn’t illustrative. Jones is ahead of a guy playing his way out of the league? Awesome. He has physical talent, but I will take issue with BB’s take. The weakest part of Jones’ games is the mental part. He seems smart, but the game does not seem intuitive to him at all. His processing of what he is seeing has to improve.
And who cares if DG cares what people think about him? What matters is whether or not he is building a solid roster. No comment on that.
Those analyses are all pretty silly.
Just his opinions. Silly or not he has GM experience. No way Tomlinson gets a big contract. I just don’t know what a win-win contract would be
But he plays a little stiff.
And if anyone says he has pocket pocket presence, they must have him confused with somebody else.
One thing is clear, however. Gettleman reputation is tied to how Daniel Jones performs this upcoming season.
I think this is a pretty insightful take. In fairness, young QB’s are generally more forgivable than Vet GMs.
He has clearly dialed that part of his disposition down in the last year, probably from advice of the owners or self-reflection. Or maybe just because the team isn't winning so continuing the bravado would be a bit foolhardy.
You realize addressing the media is part of his job right?
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about defending his choices/positions that he most certainly does care what others think.
He has clearly dialed that part of his disposition down in the last year, probably from advice of the owners or self-reflection. Or maybe just because the team isn't winning so continuing the bravado would be a bit foolhardy.
You realize addressing the media is part of his job right?
Of course it is, but that isn't what I am saying although I think you know that. Let me offer up an example of DG discussing his pick of Daniel Jones after the 2019 Draft since you want to act obtuse.
"I know for a fact that two teams would've taken him in front of 17," he recently told reporters. "I know that for a fact. It's tough, it really is. It wasn't easy for me to pass up Josh Allen. For me, you know, in my background, that was very, very difficult. But I think that much of Daniel Jones."
What GM have you ever heard speak like this...why did he even need to say anything other than Daniel Jones was the top guy on our board?
Scuzzlebutt?
Williams is in the driver’s seat because he may be irreplaceable, but you still have to set a limit somewhere. $20 million is about as high as I would go and I would work my way up to that best and final offer.
I went into Over-the-Cap Calculator. I don't know if it takes into account draft picks - but right now it has cap of $180m yet we hear it will go to $185m.
Right now if 4 players you mention are cut- - roughly it is $32.7M. Okay possibly that barely fits. Thus what's happened is that the giants just sacrificed 4 players for 2 that were already on the roster.
And did it for DL positions. And they had better draft the 4 positions they cut in rds 1-4. It's very tight here.
Williams is in the driver’s seat because he may be irreplaceable, but you still have to set a limit somewhere. $20 million is about as high as I would go and I would work my way up to that best and final offer.
What about Ngakoue for less than LW?
In addition, signing bonuses paid up front, which can be as much as the entire first year salary, get spread over the life of the contract. So for example a 5 year $100 mil contract could be structured with annual salaries of 2, 18, 19, 20 and 21 with a 20 mil signing bonus. 1/5 of $20 mil is charged to the cap in each of the 5 years so the 2021 cap hit is only 6 mil!
You can adjust the numbers up or down as needed, but this illustrates that for every dollar of cap space this year you can spend one third to one half of the average annual value the players signs for.
So to sign LW and DT to $30 mil worth of contracts it could be done with only $9-11 mil of 2021 cap space. And the same formulas can be used to add any other FAs at whatever positions or $ value levels you prioritize.
The NFL cap system typically experiences mega inflation, with today’s cap space much more valuable than next years or the year after. So within reason it is ok to kick the can down the road within reason.
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In comment 15163000 Jimmy Googs said:
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about defending his choices/positions that he most certainly does care what others think.
He has clearly dialed that part of his disposition down in the last year, probably from advice of the owners or self-reflection. Or maybe just because the team isn't winning so continuing the bravado would be a bit foolhardy.
You realize addressing the media is part of his job right?
Of course it is, but that isn't what I am saying although I think you know that. Let me offer up an example of DG discussing his pick of Daniel Jones after the 2019 Draft since you want to act obtuse.
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When asked why New York didn't wait until its second first-round pick, No. 17 overall, to take Jones and thus secure one of the top-ranked defensive prospects at No. 6, Gettleman suggested he wasn't the only one after the Duke signal-caller.
"I know for a fact that two teams would've taken him in front of 17," he recently told reporters. "I know that for a fact. It's tough, it really is. It wasn't easy for me to pass up Josh Allen. For me, you know, in my background, that was very, very difficult. But I think that much of Daniel Jones."
What GM have you ever heard speak like this...why did he even need to say anything other than Daniel Jones was the top guy on our board?
Scuzzlebutt?
He said it because all of the talk was whether he needed to pick him at 6 vs 17. Who gives a shit? I Also believe he was right as confirmed by Cutcliffe.
Remember, the two contract’s AAV has nothing to do with the first year cap hit. The first year cap hit could be half that or maybe even less.
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In comment 15163070 Scuzzlebutt said:
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In comment 15163000 Jimmy Googs said:
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about defending his choices/positions that he most certainly does care what others think.
He has clearly dialed that part of his disposition down in the last year, probably from advice of the owners or self-reflection. Or maybe just because the team isn't winning so continuing the bravado would be a bit foolhardy.
You realize addressing the media is part of his job right?
Of course it is, but that isn't what I am saying although I think you know that. Let me offer up an example of DG discussing his pick of Daniel Jones after the 2019 Draft since you want to act obtuse.
Quote:
When asked why New York didn't wait until its second first-round pick, No. 17 overall, to take Jones and thus secure one of the top-ranked defensive prospects at No. 6, Gettleman suggested he wasn't the only one after the Duke signal-caller.
"I know for a fact that two teams would've taken him in front of 17," he recently told reporters. "I know that for a fact. It's tough, it really is. It wasn't easy for me to pass up Josh Allen. For me, you know, in my background, that was very, very difficult. But I think that much of Daniel Jones."
What GM have you ever heard speak like this...why did he even need to say anything other than Daniel Jones was the top guy on our board?
Scuzzlebutt?
He said it because all of the talk was whether he needed to pick him at 6 vs 17. Who gives a shit? I Also believe he was right as confirmed by Cutcliffe.
Really? That's what you're giving me after taking such a silly point of view.
Moving on, as this won't go well for one of us...
In addition, signing bonuses paid up front, which can be as much as the entire first year salary, get spread over the life of the contract. So for example a 5 year $100 mil contract could be structured with annual salaries of 2, 18, 19, 20 and 21 with a 20 mil signing bonus. 1/5 of $20 mil is charged to the cap in each of the 5 years so the 2021 cap hit is only 6 mil!
You can adjust the numbers up or down as needed, but this illustrates that for every dollar of cap space this year you can spend one third to one half of the average annual value the players signs for.
So to sign LW and DT to $30 mil worth of contracts it could be done with only $9-11 mil of 2021 cap space. And the same formulas can be used to add any other FAs at whatever positions or $ value levels you prioritize.
The NFL cap system typically experiences mega inflation, with today’s cap space much more valuable than next years or the year after. So within reason it is ok to kick the can down the road within reason.
Thanks!!
If they're really pushing for Tomlinson,that being Judge and his crew, that would make me wonder.