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Former NYG OL Coach Pat Flaherty is rejoining the Giants

Anakim : 2/28/2021 7:06 pm
Dan Graziano
@DanGrazianoESPN
Per source, former Giants offensive line coach Pat Flaherty will return to the organization this year, joining Joe Judge's staff in an advisory role, helping out with the offensive linemen among other duties. Flaherty was on Tom Coughlin's Giants staff from 2004-15.
Wow  
Ira : 2/28/2021 7:09 pm : link
!!!
Wilkerson  
Mike in NY : 2/28/2021 7:11 pm : link
I think he is looking at opportunities elsewhere as he won’t likely rise above Assistant OL Coach here.
i like this  
GiantsFan84 : 2/28/2021 7:11 pm : link
he was a fine coach. the whole coaching staff caught a raw deal at the end of the reese era as they were given crap to work with
I like the hire  
GoDeep13 : 2/28/2021 7:18 pm : link
Just seems we’ll have a lot of Chefs in the kitchen when it comes to O-Line. Unless sale will be our run game coordinator as well as OL coach.
I love the Sale hire.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/28/2021 7:22 pm : link
This is an interesting hire.
This is interesting..  
Sean : 2/28/2021 7:25 pm : link
Since this is exactly what happened last year before Colombo had a meltdown. Seems Judge values having an advisor type person helping out with the OL.
Everyone  
Steve in Greenwich : 2/28/2021 7:38 pm : link
Automatically assumed when reports came out that the Giants had tried to retain Coach Guegs and couldn’t reach a deal that it was for the offensive line coach. I always felt they wanted to retain him in an advisory role like they originally intended to hire him for prior to Colombo’s fall out. Sounds like that’s the role Flaherty is signing on for. Obviously it seems like Judge has high value in a senior position as offensive line coach.
I like it  
Lines of Scrimmage : 2/28/2021 8:07 pm : link
Sale has only college experience and really is a little inexperienced as a OL coach. Flats can assist with his transition to the pro game. In case Sale bombs which I don’t expect you have a back up.

Am I remembering things wrong?  
Bill in UT : 2/28/2021 8:16 pm : link
Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?
RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
Straw Hat : 2/28/2021 8:22 pm : link
In comment 15163745 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?


Did you like the line in 2007?
RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
Johnny5 : 2/28/2021 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15163745 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?

Heck no. It got bad towards the end because we tried to keep the OL intact far too long, and did not keep drafting good OL.
Fuck yeah!!!  
MtDizzle : 2/28/2021 8:23 pm : link
We should have never let him go in the first place.
RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
eric2425ny : 2/28/2021 8:24 pm : link
In comment 15163745 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?


He was the offensive line coach from 2004-2015. He did a pretty good job helping them win 2 SB’s.
Judge seems to like  
Payasdaddy : 2/28/2021 8:53 pm : link
Coaches giving input to coaches
And as long as they are open to it, another set of eyes can be very helpful.
Nice hire  
Saquads26 : 2/28/2021 9:04 pm : link
!
RE: RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
robbieballs2003 : 2/28/2021 9:10 pm : link
In comment 15163749 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15163745 Bill in UT said:


Quote:


Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?


Heck no. It got bad towards the end because we tried to keep the OL intact far too long, and did not keep drafting good OL.


That's not really true. We tried upgrading it. It just never worked out. Beatty was a second round pick. Flowers was a first round pick. Pugh was a first round pick. We drafted the other C whose name I cannot recall right now in the second. Baas was a highly paid FA. Schwartz was paid a lot. Reese tried to restock the OL but EVERY player missed. Not one player was developed. So, Flaherty gets credit for the great OL we had in 2007 and 2008 but he also has to take the credit for everything after.
Richburg was who I was thinking about  
robbieballs2003 : 2/28/2021 9:12 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/28/2021 9:16 pm : link
In comment 15163749 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15163745 Bill in UT said:


Quote:


Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?


Heck no. It got bad towards the end because we tried to keep the OL intact far too long, and did not keep drafting good OL.


Yeah that's some selective memory there. They poured a ton of resources into the OL.

I'm not saying Flaherty was to blame, but the common refrain that Reese didnt address the OL is false.
RE: RE: RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
eric2425ny : 2/28/2021 9:22 pm : link
In comment 15163790 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15163749 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


In comment 15163745 Bill in UT said:


Quote:


Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?


Heck no. It got bad towards the end because we tried to keep the OL intact far too long, and did not keep drafting good OL.



Yeah that's some selective memory there. They poured a ton of resources into the OL.

I'm not saying Flaherty was to blame, but the common refrain that Reese didnt address the OL is false.


Reese didn’t neglect the offensive line. He and his staff were clearly just really bad at evaluating offensive line talent. Which is almost worse than just neglecting the line. If they neglected it and drafted good players at other positions we probably would have won more games.
RE: RE: RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
Johnny5 : 2/28/2021 9:22 pm : link
In comment 15163790 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15163749 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


In comment 15163745 Bill in UT said:


Quote:


Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?


Heck no. It got bad towards the end because we tried to keep the OL intact far too long, and did not keep drafting good OL.



Yeah that's some selective memory there. They poured a ton of resources into the OL.

I'm not saying Flaherty was to blame, but the common refrain that Reese didnt address the OL is false.

No selective memory. It's exactly as I stated. We tried to hang onto guys too long, and we drafted for need on the OL and that did NOT pan out. And now here we are.
I’m ok with this move  
Jay on the Island : 2/28/2021 9:34 pm : link
As long as it’s an advisory or consulting role. Sale should be the primary OL coach who calls the shots not Flaherty.

Flaherty was not impressive here for the most part and didn’t do much in 1 year in Jax. He was hired by Miami and then fired before the season began because Flores wanted to go in a different direction.
ESU  
cjac : 2/28/2021 10:19 pm : link
Go Warriors
RE: ESU  
robbieballs2003 : 2/28/2021 10:21 pm : link
In comment 15163847 cjac said:
Quote:
Go Warriors

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
BelieveJJ : 2/28/2021 10:39 pm : link
In comment 15163745 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?


In 2007-2008 and continuing into 2009 at least, the OL wasamong the top units in the league. That's the Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie line, comprised of one 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick grabbed as an expensive FA, a 5th rounder and 2 UDFAs. Flaherty molded them into one of the league's best lines.

Reese never drafted for an adequete pipeline of replacements.
Lake George Giant:, you couldn't be more wrong!  
BelieveJJ : 2/28/2021 11:06 pm : link
Quote:
I'm not saying Flaherty was to blame, but the common refrain that Reese didnt address the OL is false.


You can do some research on it, but Reese ABSOFFFUFFFINGlutely neglected drafting OL in the higher rounds compared with other successful franchises - until after the OL was a total shitshow.

He failed miserably in building a pipeline of OL talent to replace, or even improve upon, guys like Diehl and O'Hara, etc. He seemed to think they were made of iron.
If its OK with  
Gfan in PA : 2/28/2021 11:32 pm : link
Richie Seubert, its OK with me!

"Former Giants left guard Rich Seubert, who tweeted “best news I’ve heard all day.”
RE: If its OK with  
Bill in UT : 3/1/2021 12:24 am : link
In comment 15163868 Gfan in PA said:
Quote:
Richie Seubert, its OK with me!

"Former Giants left guard Rich Seubert, who tweeted “best news I’ve heard all day.”


yeah, but we don't know what kind of day he'd had up til then :)
Two eras to Flaherty’s Giants tenure. First 6 years, he developed  
Ivan15 : 3/1/2021 7:46 am : link
A very good line but Diehl was a Day 1 starter before Flaherty, Snee was a Day 1 starter no matter who was coaching him, McKenzie (round 3) and O’Hara (undrafted) were free agents from other teams. Flaherty developed them but I think only Seubert was a truly raw talent.

Second 6 years, among draft picks, only Beatty developed under Flaherty. Other draft picks didn’t develop. Undrafted players didn’t develop. Free agents from other teams didn’t work out. Giants changed offensive coordinators to a guy with a scheme that should have made it easier to develop o-line. The last straw was not being able to get anything out of the first round tackle pick.

You can blame Reese for not finding the talent but Flaherty has to take some of the blame too. Maybe he just lucked into the o-line of the first 6 years. Maybe the game has passed him by. In any case, there is no harm in his new role, as he poses no threat to Sale and he may turn out to be great at game prep and objective analysis.
Crazy thought. Gettleman’s moving away from Director of Pro Personnel  
Ivan15 : 3/1/2021 7:55 am : link
And then leaving may have a greater effect on bringing in good free agents than anything Reese did or didn’t do.
Yeah what could go wrong  
HomerJones45 : 3/1/2021 8:08 am : link
With the position coach having an “advisor”. Wait for the inevitable explosion when everyone wants to be in charge or there is a difference of opinion between the position coach and the advisor.

Big year for Judge. No coming in 6-10 again.
Since he left the NYG, Flaherty has had a few  
chick310 : 3/1/2021 8:10 am : link
Asst Coaching stops at other NFL teams, and was last reported with Penn State as analyst.

Have no idea if this is a good idea or not, hopefully it is. But difficult not to get an air of desperation type feeling with any news regarding the NYG Offensive Line.

Goes without saying  
Biteymax22 : 3/1/2021 8:59 am : link
That this is likely the job Dave D was originally hired to do but I'd really like to know what exactly it is....

I wonder if as an "advisor" if he'll have a role in the scouting and assessment of OL prospects, both in college and NFL FA's. In other words is it possible he'd almost be a "position specialist" helping with the scouting department?
RE: RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/1/2021 9:30 am : link
In comment 15163859 BelieveJJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15163745 Bill in UT said:


Quote:


Wasn't the OL horrible when he was here?



In 2007-2008 and continuing into 2009 at least, the OL wasamong the top units in the league. That's the Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie line, comprised of one 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick grabbed as an expensive FA, a 5th rounder and 2 UDFAs. Flaherty molded them into one of the league's best lines.

Reese never drafted for an adequete pipeline of replacements.


He tried to draft but it was not enough and then he the Giants had two bad breaks. Beatty was at least solid and then the injuries hit him and Pugh was injured almost from the get go. So it was a a problem on two folds. Holding on to that good line and trying to hold them together with duct tape (as their performance dived) and overly priced for performance and then not drafting enough (both numbers and quality).
It didn't help anyone that the injuries led Snee to break down  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/1/2021 9:31 am : link
He retired early.
RE: It didn't help anyone that the injuries led Snee to break down  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/1/2021 9:37 am : link
In comment 15163988 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
He retired early.


This was the big problem. While a great Giant they should have cut ties a year or two sooner. All those players from that good line stayed till they fell apart one by one and they were at top of the pay scale and not performing at previous levels. I actually blamed TC partially for this.....too much loyalty.
RE: Since he left the NYG, Flaherty has had a few  
Daniel in MI : 3/1/2021 9:52 am : link
In comment 15163916 chick310 said:
Quote:
But difficult not to get an air of desperation type feeling with any news regarding the NYG Offensive Line.


Agreed, I for one am certainly desperate for them to get their line squared away...
So we have an Oline coach an assistant Oline coach  
UberAlias : 3/1/2021 10:37 am : link
And an Oline consultant and a HC who it sounds like has some very specific ideas about technique and how to run. It's certainly an interesting arrangement --hopefully everyone is on the same page.
In an advisory role  
DavidinBMNY : 3/1/2021 10:48 am : link
That's fine. He hasn't really been successful as an OL coach for a while. He got canned pretty quickly from one of his other recent gigs.

From a sentitmental perspective any move further entrenching the Diehl's, O'Hara's and Suebert's of the world into and a tie to TC as well is helpful.
you can't blame him for every failed pick  
Platos : 3/1/2021 11:02 am : link
and FA.

those lines were better than the ones we've put out the last 5 years.

i like the hire.
RE: RE: RE: Am I remembering things wrong?  
BelieveJJ : 3/1/2021 11:28 am : link
In comment 15163985 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:


He tried to draft but it was not enough and then he the Giants had two bad breaks. Beatty was at least solid and then the injuries hit him and Pugh was injured almost from the get go. So it was a a problem on two folds. Holding on to that good line and trying to hold them together with duct tape (as their performance dived) and overly priced for performance and then not drafting enough (both numbers and quality).


I don't think we really disagree LOS. But I examined Reese's first 6 years or so as GM, and Beatty, a late 2nd round pick, who had some ? about his toughness and love for or devotion to the game was the ONLY pick higher than a 4th round pick (for Brewer?) in that time span.

It's not simply "bad luck" when you aren't drafting OL with higher level picks to start out. And Reese had a historically low % of high draft picks (3rd round or higher) spent on OL than any other quality club over his initial 6 or 7 years as GM.
Believe JJ  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/1/2021 11:36 am : link
Yes Reese should have done better and I am glad he is gone. When it comes to the OL I also fault TC here. He was too loyal to his guys.

Giants had a lot of money invested in the OL and were not getting elite performance. Really this was a problem on both the lines but more so in the OL. Every year I like to see 2-4 OL added via draft/Ufa. I think it is bad team building signing a entire OL to second and third contracts which the Giants unfortunately did.
Fix your calendar  
NYDCBlue : 3/1/2021 11:38 am : link
Today is MARCH first.....

Not April 1st.

Besides, aren't fools days jokes a banable offense? :)
It's clear that Judge wants his offensive line coached in a  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/1/2021 12:00 pm : link
very specific way -- and that you're not going to be on staff if you don't want to do it the way he wants it. Let's hope he gets his way this time.

I don't think that Guggs did such a great job after he took over last season -- at least it was not evident that he did.
RE: It didn't help anyone that the injuries led Snee to break down  
FStubbs : 3/1/2021 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15163988 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
He retired early.


The massive injuries destroyed a good deal of Reese's drafts, but he also failed to anticipate Snee and Diehl breaking down before their time.

2 first round picks (including a top 10) and a 2nd round pick absolutely addressed the offensive line; those picks were just bad picks.
RE: RE: It didn't help anyone that the injuries led Snee to break down  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/1/2021 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15164155 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15163988 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


He retired early.

It was too late. After winning the SB in 2011 with a patchwork group on the OL and having Eli overcome an big beating in San Fran what did they do:

Wilson, Randle, Hosley, Robinson, Mosley, McCants and Kuhn

Should have drafted two OL in the first 3 rounds and still added more later. They got too cute and added a scat back, WR where they already had two elite ones and a measurables TE.



The massive injuries destroyed a good deal of Reese's drafts, but he also failed to anticipate Snee and Diehl breaking down before their time.

2 first round picks (including a top 10) and a 2nd round pick absolutely addressed the offensive line; those picks were just bad picks.
My recollection is that Flaherty was fired because...  
Milton : 3/1/2021 1:56 pm : link
He clashed with Flowers. I think it was more about a personality clash than a teaching thing and they sided with their investment in Flowers.
Most of that era of Giants drafts  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/1/2021 2:46 pm : link
they were chasing to patch holes created by injury. They drafted great WRs and lost them to injury. Drafted a good safety and lost him to injury (unwisely)spent on a RB early and lost him to injury. There was never really much stability. Like trying to plug holes in a dam with your fingers every year. They always had a big need for offense or defensive help.

Hindsight is 2020, but we need to remember that the franchise was constantly chasing a window of contention.

I don't think anyone, TC, Gilbride, or the front office did a good job of recognizing that the OL was withering away until Snee retired. Which is strange because his decline was not quiet.
IIRC Matt Ruhle was the assistant line coach under Flats  
Simms11 : 3/1/2021 4:21 pm : link
as well. Anyway, he had some real good lines when he was here. I think he’ll really help Sales. I’m excited to see how the line develops further.
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