The trend with this team at the defensive tackle position

and that we can grab another DT in the draft to fill the void, whereas a guy like Williams is much harder to replace based on his skill set. So,it probably doesn’t bode well for Tomlinson, however, this might just be a year where we could keep him around, at least for another year or two in a cap-friendly deal. All teams are dealing with cap hits this year and there might not be as many suitors for him, much like what Golden last year.

to help you tell the future here. Different guys in charge with different value systems.

If they do not wind up re-signing Tomlinson, my question would be why they keep using #2 picks on Defensive Tackles?

They clearly value the position on draft day, but then forget why. Only to remember again and sign up a free agent.

Can't imagine why this team doesn't make the playoffs more often...

In comment 15164291 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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to help you tell the future here. Different guys in charge with different value systems.

+1 ... the pattern was certainly true under previous regimes ... let’s hope it’s different now.

It's one of the many reasons that this team has done so poorly in recent years.

Sooner or later you swing and miss on a replacement, like the GIANTS did with Marvin Austin. Then you have to pony up extra bucks to get a serviceable veteran free agent, or go with garbage at the position.

If you've got a good young player, and he wants to stay, make it happen at a reasonable number. Otherwise you upset the team chemistry and create yet another hole that has to be filled.

If you keep the guy, then you can spend that 2nd round pick on another position.

What I'm getting to is this - they need to figure out a way to keep both Williams and Tomlinson, even if it means moving on from a declining older player, like one of the OLs. Replace the declining older player, not the young guy.

not an enormous task using the draft wisely. Tomlinson was a Reese pick, while Dexter Lawrence a pick of the current regime. I can tell you when Dexter was drafted they viewed him as a multiple DL and high end NT prospect. It would be very difficult to keep LW, DT, and then pay Dexter too, especially when we see their investment in the secondary, Barkley, presumably Jones all coming due soon enough.

LW is a different story, but the pricetag is retain him is really unattractive.

2007 DT third round. Had the "career play" with the sack of Brady on 2nd down at the end of SB XLII.

in Jacksonville. Canty was signed as they thought he could also apply pressure and he had tremendous height......disrupt QB.

I don't evaluate the college players like some on BBI but every year a couple players really impress me. Skip Holtz had a very good team at ECU and watching them Linval was dominant and thought he be a big player on Sundays. I was sad to see him leave but I think the Giants valued DT's that could impact the pass rush.

The giants do not re sign players before they reach free agency. Once they are free agents tough to sign. They need to re sign players sooner. The player may sign early as a hedge against injury.

In comment 15164291 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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to help you tell the future here. Different guys in charge with different value systems.

Exactly. Not only that, but different defenses too which have different positional values.

In comment 15164320 Trainmaster said:

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2007 DT third round. Had the "career play" with the sack of Brady on 2nd down at the end of SB XLII.

Good pick for that play alone.

is, there should be no reason they can't re-sign Tomlinson.

I don't want to hear about the cap. Football is about QB + OL + DL. Tomlinson is a homegrown talent, a team captain and a solid grunt player who is reliable and never complains.

It makes sense to re-sign the guy. Restructure Solder & Zeitler, free some $$$ up and get it done. This is the trenches and Tomlinson is just hitting his prime. He also does not strike me as the type of guy who is going to loaf after getting paid.

In comment 15164317 JonC said:

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not an enormous task using the draft wisely. Tomlinson was a Reese pick, while Dexter Lawrence a pick of the current regime. I can tell you when Dexter was drafted they viewed him as a multiple DL and high end NT prospect. It would be very difficult to keep LW, DT, and then pay Dexter too, especially when we see their investment in the secondary, Barkley, presumably Jones all coming due soon enough. LW is a different story, but the pricetag is retain him is really unattractive.

i agree with this 1000%. my gripe is that why didn't they trade tomlinson at the deadline when multiple teams were interested in him if they are not going to re-sign him

and a good point.

I think it's different this year with Williams though.
Gettleman will feel under the gun to get him signed, because it's really the 1st time, they've ever given up draft capital (3rd and 5th rounder) to get him or really a DT.

Austin from unc a 2nd rounder also?

which Dalvin has, you can't draft the relationship the DT line is building. They play for each other and it shows. Teams preach chemistry, and when you have it, you need to protect it because there is a lot of youth here. I hope the front office finds a way to keep this group intact. You let guys like BJ Hill walk, sorry BJ. Think about that '07 group, man they had fun, they played for each other especially when the game was on the line..

In comment 15164425 MtDizzle said:

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Austin from unc a 2nd rounder also?

Yes

if you hit on a draft pick you're better off trying to keep the player rather than use a high draft pick again on the same position and hope you hit again. even if you have to slightly overpay (because of market forces) it's better to retain the player. this is one of the reasons we're treading water.

In comment 15164365 Hilary said:

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The giants do not re sign players before they reach free agency. Once they are free agents tough to sign. They need to re sign players sooner. The player may sign early as a hedge against injury.

Exactly! This is the way to keep home grown talent. Otherwise they are in the pool with all the other FA. If the Giants didn’t have Tomlinson on the roster last year, how many people would be calling for the Giants to sign a NT this offseason? At least a 10-15M one? Some may suggest K short on a cheap deal.

Back to your point though. If the Giants want to keep Peppers beyond this year then now is the time to extend him. Don’t wait for FA next year.

to me. Retain your best players rather than hope for a capable replacement in the draft. Cut the lesser players.

Big dex will hands down get that bag

fans devalue them. However without a strong DL you can't stop the run, so teams never get off the field. You also can't generate a pass rush because the QB just steps up (and they just run the ball), so even though its the edge guys getting the stats its the DL that gives them the opportunity. I am all over having a dominant DL.

They need to cut a few players that have failed to help the past year. Then they need to restructure Zeitler, Shepard and extend Peppers.

... to suggest more than coincidence. I think Jerry tried (subject to value aligning with need) to alternate drafting 1-technique and 3-technique DTs. Joseph and Hankins were widebodies (though both could apply some pressure), interlaced with Alford, Austin, and Bromley, who projected as one-gap penetrators. You can add Barry Cofield to the first group, as Reese was running the later rounds by 2006.

Unfortunately, the latter group were all busts or injury washouts (or both), so the plan never took off. Chris Canty and Rocky Bernard were signed to fill the hole. In a sense, so was Harrison, as he bumped Hankins to the hole left by Austin and Bromley washing out.

Ok, sure - Linval Joseph. I get it.

Now look at wide receiver. Cruz and Beckham were re-signed before they hit free agency. How did those deals work out? Hakeem Nicks and Steve Smith were both in line for big extensions; Mario Manningham would have been paid nicely too. All got hurt, and did nothing thereafter.

The Giants didn’t collapse after mid-2012 because of poor contract management. They collapsed because of lousy drafting and lousy luck.

seemingly strategy that, to my knowledge, no other team in the NFL implements.

I hope it ends this year as I feel it imperative that the Giants keep this DL intact if they expect this defense to continue to get better.

Williams is not

In comment 15164750 Sy'56 said:

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Williams is not

Agree

at times this past season, another guy who is super young and his best years ahead of him. I'd wager on Giants signing Williams with an eye on having Lawrence here long term, and letting Tomlinson walk. Unfortunately, having a lot of good DTs isn't an amazing problem to have, it's just a good problem. We need to prioritize the other positions on this team like EDGE before we pay our 3rd best interior lineman.

In comment 15164760 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 15164750 Sy'56 said: Quote: Williams is not Agree

I agree that LW can't be replaced.
DT could PROBABLY be replaced.
I would just hate to see that DL regress.

In comment 15164871 Dnew15 said:

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In comment 15164760 ryanmkeane said: Quote: In comment 15164750 Sy'56 said: Quote: Williams is not Agree I agree that LW can't be replaced. DT could PROBABLY be replaced. I would just hate to see that DL regress.

Yup, it is possible. This is what every team fears, economics hurting their current strength.

I think NYG should feel good about their DL, with or without Tomlinson.

In comment 15164416 GiantsFan84 said:

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In comment 15164317 JonC said: Quote: not an enormous task using the draft wisely. Tomlinson was a Reese pick, while Dexter Lawrence a pick of the current regime. I can tell you when Dexter was drafted they viewed him as a multiple DL and high end NT prospect. It would be very difficult to keep LW, DT, and then pay Dexter too, especially when we see their investment in the secondary, Barkley, presumably Jones all coming due soon enough. LW is a different story, but the pricetag is retain him is really unattractive. i agree with this 1000%. my gripe is that why didn't they trade tomlinson at the deadline when multiple teams were interested in him if they are not going to re-sign him

Well, it's either the rumors are nonsense or DG just can't pull the trigger, as it's not the first time it's surfaced. Just don't know what is fact(s). If it's the latter, the repeated indecisiveness sure does suck.

DT's usage really varied from week-to-week. I can see a scenario in which LW/Dex/BJ Hill/RJ (they had to have a reason to continue to carry him across 2 HC for a reason - right?) + a FA/draft body (maybe) should result in steady production...right?

... I don't think the pattern of free agent signings would ever have emerged. The sample is fairly small, and each instance suggests that Plan A was homegrown talent.

Alford was drafted to succeed Fred Robbins, but he blew out his knee, so Reese backfilled with Canty and Bernard.

Joseph was drafted to replace Cofield (who was cap-controlled for an extra year because of a quirk with the CBA), and developed as hoped, so the Giants let Barry walk after a year.

Austin was intended to replace Canty, but he flopped, so a rapidly-fading Cullen Jenkins became the stopgap, followed by a massive reach with Jay Bromley.

Hankins projected as Joseph with extra wiggle. He showed glimpses, but never met expectations and his 2015 was ruined by injuries. So the Giants signed Harrison, put him next to Hankins (not a true penetrator, but better than Bromley), and let JH walk a year later.

The point I'm trying to make is that replacing draftees with FAs was never the plan. The plan was to replace draftees with new draftees, unless the incumbents were difference-makers AND could be re-signed at a reasonable price. Since Linval Joseph is the only one who was more than a JAG after his rookie contract, it's hard to know whether Reese's alleged devaluation of the DT position was a significant factor.