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CB Caleb Farley at #11?

TC : 3/2/2021 12:31 pm
Virginia Tech's Caleb Farley is usually rated as the 1st or 2nd best CB coming into the draft. I was really hoping to see an additional offensive weapon added in the 1st round, as the offense seems to be the well beind the defense at present.

But CB's are also invaluable, premium players in today's NFL. And although it is common for them to take a season in the NFL to approach their full potential, if Farley is there at #11, should the Giants grab him?
I'd be for it  
GiantsLaw : 3/2/2021 12:33 pm : link
premium position, premium player.
No Problem With Farley At #11  
Trainmaster : 3/2/2021 12:34 pm : link
I think there is a very good chance that a defensive player will be BPA when the Giants pick at #11.

Also, the defensive players may also have a lower floor than some of the offensive players that might be available at #11 overall.
We could do  
GoDeep13 : 3/2/2021 12:34 pm : link
Much worse than Farley at #11. Good player. Top tier skill set. And the fact that he’s raw may actually work to our advantage with the emphasis on teaching fundamental we’ve taken on under Judge.
Farley or Surtain at #11 would be excellent.  
Red Dog : 3/2/2021 12:38 pm : link
Fills a BIG need. Then get a big WR in round 2.
No problem picking Farley or Surtain at #11  
JonC : 3/2/2021 12:40 pm : link
like both better than the WRs, fills a big premium hole.

Pick the best players, let the talent come to you.
Farley  
broadbandz : 3/2/2021 12:42 pm : link
is another eli apple. no thanks.
If he is BPA.....I am all for it.  
George from PA : 3/2/2021 12:43 pm : link
Fits a need.
Farley  
Mike in NY : 3/2/2021 12:43 pm : link
CB is definitely a need, but I am not sure I would take Farley unless he was last name on the board (assuming Pitts, Chase, Smith, Surtain, and Sewell are gone and nobody like Trevor Lawrence falls) and we can't swing a trade down.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer players who played this year unless they were Top 5 locks prior to opting out. Jayron Holsey had a monster year as a Sophomore then regressed as a Junior and never amounted to much in the NFL. CB is one position that reps matter and you need to see how a player will perform when teams think they have spotted a weakness.
RE: Farley  
Straw Hat : 3/2/2021 12:44 pm : link
In comment 15164838 broadbandz said:
Quote:
is another eli apple. no thanks.


Can you elaborate on that? I watched his highlights and i dont see anything that resembles eli apple.
RE: Farley  
short lease : 3/2/2021 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15164838 broadbandz said:
Quote:
is another eli apple. no thanks.



I am a little interested on some elaboration also (sincerely).

Is he immature? Emotionally unstable with a domineering Mother?

What is your connection to him?


Thanks.
If he is BPA draft him  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/2/2021 12:53 pm : link
A very good CB gives potential to have a very good defense (with LW and DT). If the offense can limit turnovers, run the ball they would have a very good shot winning the division even without significant increase in offensive scoring imo. I think this may be the way they go.
Nope. He's a Hokie. Hard pass.  
Pete in CO : 3/2/2021 12:56 pm : link
Just kidding. I'd be OK if he's there and has proven himself to have a higher ceiling than Surtain II. Lotsa "if's"...
I'm interested in  
Dnew15 : 3/2/2021 12:56 pm : link
what BBI thinks about Farley vs Surtain and how each fit into Graham's scheme and which would be a better fit, thus a better pick at #11?

I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?
RE: RE: Farley  
BigBlueShock : 3/2/2021 12:59 pm : link
In comment 15164849 short lease said:
Quote:
In comment 15164838 broadbandz said:


Quote:


is another eli apple. no thanks.




I am a little interested on some elaboration also (sincerely).

Is he immature? Emotionally unstable with a domineering Mother?

What is your connection to him?


Thanks.

There is no connection. It’s just an incredibly lazy opinion. Nothing more than that. Eli Apple was a bust who happened to play the same position so obviously any other CB ever taken in the 1st round is sure to bust as well

This is literally how a lot of Giants think. It’s embarrassing.
RE: I'm interested in  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/2/2021 1:04 pm : link
In comment 15164856 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
what BBI thinks about Farley vs Surtain and how each fit into Graham's scheme and which would be a better fit, thus a better pick at #11?

I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?


Saban and Belichick share many common defensive beliefs which by extension Graham follows. Surtain has performed responsibilities that Graham would want.
I would be fine with it  
Chip : 3/2/2021 1:04 pm : link
especially if we sign a Free agent WR. If not I would prefer a WR. I would prefer Rousseau if we sign a WR but would be happy with either.
RE: RE: I'm interested in  
Dnew15 : 3/2/2021 1:09 pm : link
In comment 15164867 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
In comment 15164856 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


what BBI thinks about Farley vs Surtain and how each fit into Graham's scheme and which would be a better fit, thus a better pick at #11?

I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?



Saban and Belichick share many common defensive beliefs which by extension Graham follows. Surtain has performed responsibilities that Graham would want.


I love that Surtain comes from NFL blood lines, played at Alabama where he faced the best WRs in the nation, from what I understand he played a ton of man against those guys and won more often than not, I love that JJ/Graham will have the inside track on Surtain b/c of their connections to Alabama and the staff there, I love that Saban/Belichick and by extension Graham all have similar defensive beliefs...am I answering my own question here?

Would anyone prefer Farley over Surtain?
Plus 10  
Grizz99 : 3/2/2021 1:26 pm : link
[Quote]This is literally how a lot of Giants think. It’s embarrassing.[quote/].
I  
AcidTest : 3/2/2021 1:27 pm : link
would prefer not to draft players on the first or second day who opted out, and my guess is that Gettleman and the Giants will take the same approach. Gettleman needs players who have the greatest chance of contributing right now. We also don't have a full complement of draft picks. I would nonetheless be fine with Farley because his athleticism, size, and deep speed are tantalizing. I do agree that the Giants would likely prefer Surtain between the two, which is fine.
RE: RE: Farley  
DCGMan : 3/2/2021 1:27 pm : link
In comment 15164844 Straw Hat said:
Quote:
In comment 15164838 broadbandz said:


Quote:


is another eli apple. no thanks.



Can you elaborate on that? I watched his highlights and i dont see anything that resembles eli apple.


He's a highly respected kid from my VT football contacts.

He may end up a bust production-wise like Eli, but it won't stem from immaturity. I worry about Caleb being injury prone.
RE: I'm interested in  
Toth029 : 3/2/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15164856 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
what BBI thinks about Farley vs Surtain and how each fit into Graham's scheme and which would be a better fit, thus a better pick at #11?

I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?

From what a few have said in regards to the Giants, I'm intrigued by this as well. While Surtain has the pedigree, it sounds from my perspective that Farley has the higher upside. He's better in a man scheme and Surtain is good in both, just not great. So if that's the case, it depends what scheme Graham runs. It will be telling come April what that is because in Miami, he ran more man. In New York, he did run more zone because of the OLB he was given and the inexperience at the second corner spot.
Just a tad concerned about Farley's injury history  
Rick in Dallas : 3/2/2021 1:29 pm : link
ACL surgery in 2017
Back surgery in 2019 missing last several games of the season.
If he checks out medically I would rate him as the number 2 CB behind Surtain but a close second.
Don't sleep on Jaycee Horn who I expect to climb the prospect ratings before the actual draft.
RE: I'm interested in  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/2/2021 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15164856 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
what BBI thinks about Farley vs Surtain and how each fit into Graham's scheme and which would be a better fit, thus a better pick at #11?

I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?


I just started a thread about this last week.

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=606299

Seems like most BBIers prefer Surtain due to the Alabama/Saban connection on top of him playing at a high level in 2020 vs. Farley sitting out the year.

Farley is a very intriguing prospect. He has fantastic physical tools and performed at a very high level at VT. He's one of the 5 most likely Giants picks imo.
RE: I  
ghost718 : 3/2/2021 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15164890 AcidTest said:
Quote:
would prefer not to draft players on the first or second day who opted out, and my guess is that Gettleman and the Giants will take the same approach.


That's the thing,some of these guys who opted out are probably not going to fulfill peoples expectations.The challenge is figuring out which,but at least they're all in one pile.
No  
uconngiant : 3/2/2021 1:57 pm : link
He has some health issues and his hips are not good from things I have read and heard
RE: I'd be for it  
81_Great_Dane : 3/2/2021 2:13 pm : link
In comment 15164818 GiantsLaw said:
Quote:
premium position, premium player.
This. Not my hope for what the Giants get at #11, but it would be a very sensible pick.

Honestly, if the Giants want to address a bunch of needs, they need to turn six picks (with two 6th-rounders) into 9 or 10 picks. And the only way to do that is to trade down. Multiple times. If they can find a partner, they could probably get an additional 2 and a 3 by trading back to around #20 overall. If that opportunity is there, they should seriously consider it. The 2nd round is loaded and they need picks. They could trade down in the 2nd as well and pick up yet more picks.

I'm not saying that's easy to do, but they would be better off having eight picks with two 2nds and two 3rds than six picks with one each in the first tree rounds. They need about four prospects on each side of the ball. Five, even.
RE: Just a tad concerned about Farley's injury history  
Mike in NY : 3/2/2021 2:18 pm : link
In comment 15164894 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
ACL surgery in 2017
Back surgery in 2019 missing last several games of the season.
If he checks out medically I would rate him as the number 2 CB behind Surtain but a close second.
Don't sleep on Jaycee Horn who I expect to climb the prospect ratings before the actual draft.


My issue with Horn is that he gets sloppy really quickly with his technique and that causes him to get grabby. That definitely will not fly at the next level. If anybody has the potential to be the next Eli Apple it is him because that was Apple's constant struggle. He appears to be better mentally than Apple, but it is awfully risky at 11 no matter what he runs.
Nope - WR or OL  
averagejoe : 3/2/2021 2:39 pm : link
with pick 11. If no WR falls take Slater if he is there. Build the core with young players. Have to score points to compete.
asuming 3qbs are picked  
Chip : 3/2/2021 2:49 pm : link
I am fine of whoevers is left Sewell, Waddle, Chase, Pitts, Smith, Surtain, Farley, and Rousseau. I am fine with any of those picks. Everyone should pick there 8 mine are in no particular order.
.  
Greg from LI : 3/2/2021 2:59 pm : link
I'm calling bullshit on Farley having the higher upside.  
mittenedman : 3/2/2021 3:01 pm : link
He may have better track speed than Surtain, but Surtain is a big time football player. That is not to discredit Farley but Surtain looked like a man among boys vs. the SEC. He's solid everywhere. He's a bigger CB for sure, and he plays with an off technique but he's masterful at it. Plays man, zone, support the run, blitz. Communicates. Plays thru injury. Has a short memory etc. Sure he doesn't have World Class track speed but he is an All Pro-type football player and for me, it would be an easy decision over Farley.
Hoping we  
TommyWiseau : 3/2/2021 3:33 pm : link
Could find one of those 4th or 5th round CB gems that many other teams around the league seem to find.
RE: Hoping we  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/2/2021 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15165058 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
Could find one of those 4th or 5th round CB gems that many other teams around the league seem to find.


No reason why they can't take a corner at 11 and one in the 5th or 6th that has the potential. Competition is a good thing and you always find ways to get good players on the field. Bradberry is on a three year deal and will be 30 at the end. Good to have a pipeline.
We're in a good position at 11. Every mock has some of the top  
Ira : 3/2/2021 3:45 pm : link
players we may want going in the top ten, but there are always one or more of the top players there at 11.
"I am absolutely for it  
santacruzom : 3/2/2021 3:51 pm : link
I always love to acquire more Hokie Treasure on the team, and we had a wonderful experience with the last CB we drafted from them."

Gerg from IL.
RE: I'm calling bullshit on Farley having the higher upside.  
Big Blue Hokie : 3/2/2021 3:52 pm : link
In comment 15165011 mittenedman said:
Quote:
He may have better track speed than Surtain, but Surtain is a big time football player. That is not to discredit Farley but Surtain looked like a man among boys vs. the SEC. He's solid everywhere. He's a bigger CB for sure, and he plays with an off technique but he's masterful at it. Plays man, zone, support the run, blitz. Communicates. Plays thru injury. Has a short memory etc. Sure he doesn't have World Class track speed but he is an All Pro-type football player and for me, it would be an easy decision over Farley.


As a VT Alum , I agree with this👆🏻. While Farely is a great kid with incredible talent, I still take Surtain everyday over him.
RE: Nope - WR or OL  
UConn4523 : 3/2/2021 3:55 pm : link
In comment 15164978 averagejoe said:
Quote:
with pick 11. If no WR falls take Slater if he is there. Build the core with young players. Have to score points to compete.


We should not pidgeonhole our options to one of 2 or 3 players.
its not a comparison to Apple...  
ryanmkeane : 3/2/2021 4:02 pm : link
but it gives me pause when someone talks about a CB prospect and the first thing they say is that he's got great size for the position. How about his ball skills, quickness, and is a football player/gamer? That's what I want in a CB. I don't want a guy who looks good in pads.
for example  
ryanmkeane : 3/2/2021 4:03 pm : link
Bradberry isn't flashy, doesn't look like the most athletic guy ever, he's just a flat out really good cover corner and tackler, and finisher. Surtain II strikes me as that guy, not Farley.
Surtain and Farley  
santacruzom : 3/2/2021 4:13 pm : link
are virtually the same size, and I'm sure that "great size" is mentioned as a positive attribute in both of their scouting reports routinely.
RE: its not a comparison to Apple...  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/2/2021 4:15 pm : link
In comment 15165115 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
but it gives me pause when someone talks about a CB prospect and the first thing they say is that he's got great size for the position. How about his ball skills, quickness, and is a football player/gamer? That's what I want in a CB. I don't want a guy who looks good in pads.


- Farley has great ball skills (6 INTs in 23 games vs. 4 INTs in 40 games for Surtain)
- Farley held opponents to a lower QB rating on throws to his man in 2019 than Surtain did in 2020
- Farley's listed size is the same or bigger than Surtain
- Farley isn't just a straight line athlete, he has quickness and is considered far more "twitchy" than Surtain

As colin mentioned on the other thread I linked, the need to paint Surtain vs. Farley as college performance vs. athleticism isn't accurate.

Farley was a very good college CB who dominated ACC competition in 2019, he also happens to have elite physical tools in terms of size/length/speed.

I'm a Surtain guy, but it's a toss up and I could totally see why someone would prefer Farley.
osi  
ryanmkeane : 3/2/2021 4:17 pm : link
thanks for the write up, i'll admit that i don't know much about Farley. I was just saying that before you mentioned those stats (which are really good) everyone kind of immediately speaks to Farley's NFL body and not his performance...but maybe that's the wrong way to look at it
RE: RE: its not a comparison to Apple...  
Mike in NY : 3/2/2021 4:22 pm : link
In comment 15165136 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
In comment 15165115 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


but it gives me pause when someone talks about a CB prospect and the first thing they say is that he's got great size for the position. How about his ball skills, quickness, and is a football player/gamer? That's what I want in a CB. I don't want a guy who looks good in pads.



- Farley has great ball skills (6 INTs in 23 games vs. 4 INTs in 40 games for Surtain)
- Farley held opponents to a lower QB rating on throws to his man in 2019 than Surtain did in 2020
- Farley's listed size is the same or bigger than Surtain
- Farley isn't just a straight line athlete, he has quickness and is considered far more "twitchy" than Surtain

As colin mentioned on the other thread I linked, the need to paint Surtain vs. Farley as college performance vs. athleticism isn't accurate.

Farley was a very good college CB who dominated ACC competition in 2019, he also happens to have elite physical tools in terms of size/length/speed.

I'm a Surtain guy, but it's a toss up and I could totally see why someone would prefer Farley.


Outside of Clemson, what ACC team has NFL caliber WR's? Surtain faced much tougher competition in the SEC.
the SEC is way better than the ACC  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/2/2021 4:26 pm : link
no argument there. But just pointing out that Farley did perform at a very high level in college.
does he play physical?  
ryanmkeane : 3/2/2021 4:36 pm : link
...when I watch Surtain, he's incredibly physical at point of attack and his tackling is on point.
RE: does he play physical?  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/2/2021 4:39 pm : link
In comment 15165152 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
...when I watch Surtain, he's incredibly physical at point of attack and his tackling is on point.


Surtain is definitely considered the more physical player. Farley's not the most willing tackler whereas Surtain is a great tackler. That's probably one of the clear advantages Surtain has on Farley. It's one of the reasons I slightly lean Surtain in the debate.
There's little doubt that Farley has the  
Section331 : 3/2/2021 5:02 pm : link
higher ceiling, but for me, Surtain's floor is too high to overlook. He is so fundamentally sound, and as Osi referenced, a terrific tackler. You can't overstate how important that is in today's game, as the Shanahan-style offenses in vogue are always trying to test the edges.

I'll cop to not having seen a lot of Farley, but my understanding was that VT played a lot of zone. He certainly has the physical traits to play it well, but I'm curious to know how much man he actually played.

And, for better or worse, Surtain almost fits the Giant mold too perfectly - he has the bloodlines, a very high floor player, great locker room guy, and the Judge-Bama link is hard to ignore. If he's there at 11, I think he's the pick.
RE: RE: its not a comparison to Apple...  
GoDeep13 : 3/2/2021 5:25 pm : link
In comment 15165136 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
In comment 15165115 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


but it gives me pause when someone talks about a CB prospect and the first thing they say is that he's got great size for the position. How about his ball skills, quickness, and is a football player/gamer? That's what I want in a CB. I don't want a guy who looks good in pads.



- Farley has great ball skills (6 INTs in 23 games vs. 4 INTs in 40 games for Surtain)
- Farley held opponents to a lower QB rating on throws to his man in 2019 than Surtain did in 2020
- Farley's listed size is the same or bigger than Surtain
- Farley isn't just a straight line athlete, he has quickness and is considered far more "twitchy" than Surtain

As colin mentioned on the other thread I linked, the need to paint Surtain vs. Farley as college performance vs. athleticism isn't accurate.

Farley was a very good college CB who dominated ACC competition in 2019, he also happens to have elite physical tools in terms of size/length/speed.

I'm a Surtain guy, but it's a toss up and I could totally see why someone would prefer Farley.
Good write up. Covers just about everything. Add to this that Farley plays multiple coverages very well and is effective in everything. Press man, cover 3, 5 yards off in Cover 2, or man up on an island in cover 0.

I’m not playing Surtain in Cover 0 or even Cover 1. If Surtain misses with his hands early he gets panicky and starts to grab because he doesn’t trust his speed. he also gives up inside routes rather easily. He not good at defending slants, ins, and digs. Anything along the sideline Surtain will be on top off, but he’s slow to react inside.

Farley’s problem is experience and aggressiveness. Farley wants to jump routes. He’ll get baited on double moves. But if the route is within 15 yards Farley will get to it. If it’s far hash, he has a good chance of a Pick 6. That’s how fast Farley closes on passes.

Either would be great picks. I comp Surtain too Aquib Talib and Farley too Antonio Cromartie.
Farley instead of who?  
BillT : 3/2/2021 5:29 pm : link
Waddle. No. Smith. No Chase. No.
RE: Farley instead of who?  
GoDeep13 : 3/2/2021 5:41 pm : link
In comment 15165239 BillT said:
Quote:
Waddle. No. Smith. No Chase. No.
1000% taking Farley over Waddle personally.
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