Virginia Tech's Caleb Farley is usually rated as the 1st or 2nd best CB coming into the draft. I was really hoping to see an additional offensive weapon added in the 1st round, as the offense seems to be the well beind the defense at present.
But CB's are also invaluable, premium players in today's NFL. And although it is common for them to take a season in the NFL to approach their full potential, if Farley is there at #11, should the Giants grab him?
Also, the defensive players may also have a lower floor than some of the offensive players that might be available at #11 overall.
Pick the best players, let the talent come to you.
Call me old fashioned, but I prefer players who played this year unless they were Top 5 locks prior to opting out. Jayron Holsey had a monster year as a Sophomore then regressed as a Junior and never amounted to much in the NFL. CB is one position that reps matter and you need to see how a player will perform when teams think they have spotted a weakness.
Can you elaborate on that? I watched his highlights and i dont see anything that resembles eli apple.
I am a little interested on some elaboration also (sincerely).
Is he immature? Emotionally unstable with a domineering Mother?
What is your connection to him?
Thanks.
I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?
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is another eli apple. no thanks.
I am a little interested on some elaboration also (sincerely).
Is he immature? Emotionally unstable with a domineering Mother?
What is your connection to him?
Thanks.
There is no connection. It’s just an incredibly lazy opinion. Nothing more than that. Eli Apple was a bust who happened to play the same position so obviously any other CB ever taken in the 1st round is sure to bust as well
This is literally how a lot of Giants think. It’s embarrassing.
I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?
Saban and Belichick share many common defensive beliefs which by extension Graham follows. Surtain has performed responsibilities that Graham would want.
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what BBI thinks about Farley vs Surtain and how each fit into Graham's scheme and which would be a better fit, thus a better pick at #11?
I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?
Saban and Belichick share many common defensive beliefs which by extension Graham follows. Surtain has performed responsibilities that Graham would want.
I love that Surtain comes from NFL blood lines, played at Alabama where he faced the best WRs in the nation, from what I understand he played a ton of man against those guys and won more often than not, I love that JJ/Graham will have the inside track on Surtain b/c of their connections to Alabama and the staff there, I love that Saban/Belichick and by extension Graham all have similar defensive beliefs...am I answering my own question here?
Would anyone prefer Farley over Surtain?
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is another eli apple. no thanks.
Can you elaborate on that? I watched his highlights and i dont see anything that resembles eli apple.
He's a highly respected kid from my VT football contacts.
He may end up a bust production-wise like Eli, but it won't stem from immaturity. I worry about Caleb being injury prone.
I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?
From what a few have said in regards to the Giants, I'm intrigued by this as well. While Surtain has the pedigree, it sounds from my perspective that Farley has the higher upside. He's better in a man scheme and Surtain is good in both, just not great. So if that's the case, it depends what scheme Graham runs. It will be telling come April what that is because in Miami, he ran more man. In New York, he did run more zone because of the OLB he was given and the inexperience at the second corner spot.
Back surgery in 2019 missing last several games of the season.
If he checks out medically I would rate him as the number 2 CB behind Surtain but a close second.
Don't sleep on Jaycee Horn who I expect to climb the prospect ratings before the actual draft.
I'm no scout - but a lot of my BBI brethren are really good - what say you?
I just started a thread about this last week.
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=606299
Seems like most BBIers prefer Surtain due to the Alabama/Saban connection on top of him playing at a high level in 2020 vs. Farley sitting out the year.
Farley is a very intriguing prospect. He has fantastic physical tools and performed at a very high level at VT. He's one of the 5 most likely Giants picks imo.
That's the thing,some of these guys who opted out are probably not going to fulfill peoples expectations.The challenge is figuring out which,but at least they're all in one pile.
Honestly, if the Giants want to address a bunch of needs, they need to turn six picks (with two 6th-rounders) into 9 or 10 picks. And the only way to do that is to trade down. Multiple times. If they can find a partner, they could probably get an additional 2 and a 3 by trading back to around #20 overall. If that opportunity is there, they should seriously consider it. The 2nd round is loaded and they need picks. They could trade down in the 2nd as well and pick up yet more picks.
I'm not saying that's easy to do, but they would be better off having eight picks with two 2nds and two 3rds than six picks with one each in the first tree rounds. They need about four prospects on each side of the ball. Five, even.
Back surgery in 2019 missing last several games of the season.
If he checks out medically I would rate him as the number 2 CB behind Surtain but a close second.
Don't sleep on Jaycee Horn who I expect to climb the prospect ratings before the actual draft.
My issue with Horn is that he gets sloppy really quickly with his technique and that causes him to get grabby. That definitely will not fly at the next level. If anybody has the potential to be the next Eli Apple it is him because that was Apple's constant struggle. He appears to be better mentally than Apple, but it is awfully risky at 11 no matter what he runs.
No reason why they can't take a corner at 11 and one in the 5th or 6th that has the potential. Competition is a good thing and you always find ways to get good players on the field. Bradberry is on a three year deal and will be 30 at the end. Good to have a pipeline.
Gerg from IL.
As a VT Alum , I agree with this👆🏻. While Farely is a great kid with incredible talent, I still take Surtain everyday over him.
We should not pidgeonhole our options to one of 2 or 3 players.
- Farley has great ball skills (6 INTs in 23 games vs. 4 INTs in 40 games for Surtain)
- Farley held opponents to a lower QB rating on throws to his man in 2019 than Surtain did in 2020
- Farley's listed size is the same or bigger than Surtain
- Farley isn't just a straight line athlete, he has quickness and is considered far more "twitchy" than Surtain
As colin mentioned on the other thread I linked, the need to paint Surtain vs. Farley as college performance vs. athleticism isn't accurate.
Farley was a very good college CB who dominated ACC competition in 2019, he also happens to have elite physical tools in terms of size/length/speed.
I'm a Surtain guy, but it's a toss up and I could totally see why someone would prefer Farley.
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but it gives me pause when someone talks about a CB prospect and the first thing they say is that he's got great size for the position. How about his ball skills, quickness, and is a football player/gamer? That's what I want in a CB. I don't want a guy who looks good in pads.
- Farley has great ball skills (6 INTs in 23 games vs. 4 INTs in 40 games for Surtain)
- Farley held opponents to a lower QB rating on throws to his man in 2019 than Surtain did in 2020
- Farley's listed size is the same or bigger than Surtain
- Farley isn't just a straight line athlete, he has quickness and is considered far more "twitchy" than Surtain
As colin mentioned on the other thread I linked, the need to paint Surtain vs. Farley as college performance vs. athleticism isn't accurate.
Farley was a very good college CB who dominated ACC competition in 2019, he also happens to have elite physical tools in terms of size/length/speed.
I'm a Surtain guy, but it's a toss up and I could totally see why someone would prefer Farley.
Outside of Clemson, what ACC team has NFL caliber WR's? Surtain faced much tougher competition in the SEC.
Surtain is definitely considered the more physical player. Farley's not the most willing tackler whereas Surtain is a great tackler. That's probably one of the clear advantages Surtain has on Farley. It's one of the reasons I slightly lean Surtain in the debate.
I'll cop to not having seen a lot of Farley, but my understanding was that VT played a lot of zone. He certainly has the physical traits to play it well, but I'm curious to know how much man he actually played.
And, for better or worse, Surtain almost fits the Giant mold too perfectly - he has the bloodlines, a very high floor player, great locker room guy, and the Judge-Bama link is hard to ignore. If he's there at 11, I think he's the pick.
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but it gives me pause when someone talks about a CB prospect and the first thing they say is that he's got great size for the position. How about his ball skills, quickness, and is a football player/gamer? That's what I want in a CB. I don't want a guy who looks good in pads.
- Farley has great ball skills (6 INTs in 23 games vs. 4 INTs in 40 games for Surtain)
- Farley held opponents to a lower QB rating on throws to his man in 2019 than Surtain did in 2020
- Farley's listed size is the same or bigger than Surtain
- Farley isn't just a straight line athlete, he has quickness and is considered far more "twitchy" than Surtain
As colin mentioned on the other thread I linked, the need to paint Surtain vs. Farley as college performance vs. athleticism isn't accurate.
Farley was a very good college CB who dominated ACC competition in 2019, he also happens to have elite physical tools in terms of size/length/speed.
I'm a Surtain guy, but it's a toss up and I could totally see why someone would prefer Farley.
I’m not playing Surtain in Cover 0 or even Cover 1. If Surtain misses with his hands early he gets panicky and starts to grab because he doesn’t trust his speed. he also gives up inside routes rather easily. He not good at defending slants, ins, and digs. Anything along the sideline Surtain will be on top off, but he’s slow to react inside.
Farley’s problem is experience and aggressiveness. Farley wants to jump routes. He’ll get baited on double moves. But if the route is within 15 yards Farley will get to it. If it’s far hash, he has a good chance of a Pick 6. That’s how fast Farley closes on passes.
Either would be great picks. I comp Surtain too Aquib Talib and Farley too Antonio Cromartie.