Assuming no strike, how do you think that season goes? A reminder, we get smoked Week 1 in Chicago & then lose a close game @ the Meadowlands to Dallas in Week 2. Then the strike happens, we drop to 0-5, & the season is all but DOA when the strike ends.
No strike...you think that team recovers from the 0-2 start & makes a playoff push or was it just one of those seasons where all the breaks go against us & you just sorta shrug & move on?
Another potential "Lost Ring" in 1987, just like 2008. Maybe 1989 and 2002 too.
Shame on him
No line depth
Doomed at 0-5 before they woke up. In another year it wouldn't have happened quite that way.
It was a very depressing time.
Shame on him
George Young is just as to blame, if not more so. He hated the use of replacement players and didn't take it seriously. The Giants had the worst scab players as a result.
I remember feeling so defeated as the strike began. I didn’t think we had a chance at 0-2 honestly. Plus, we had some tough games during the strike scab affairs. Skins and Niners would have been trouble scabs or no scabs. The other game was the bills ok we likely win that. The game that was never played was Miami I believe. No cake walk there either.
Strike or no strike I don’t know if the 87 giants were ever meant to have a good year.
I remember feeling so defeated as the strike began. I didn’t think we had a chance at 0-2 honestly. Plus, we had some tough games during the strike scab affairs. Skins and Niners would have been trouble scabs or no scabs. The other game was the bills ok we likely win that. The game that was never played was Miami I believe. No cake walk there either.
Strike or no strike I don’t know if the 87 giants were ever meant to have a good year.
The shame of it was all the great players...Simms, LT, Bavaro etc...still in their physical primes
I believe Harry Carson has said that too.
I remember this. I think Parcells said something like -
"People were writing books etc, .... and doing everything EXCEPT thinking about playing football"
But, who is to say they couldn't get the heads out of their asses when reality set in towards the 2nd half of the season and make a strong playoff run?
We finished 9-7 in 2011 and marched through the play-offs for the SB Victory. The 1987 team certainly had enough talent (if they focused) to do the same?
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Apparently according to Parcells himself, the team was still high on the buzz of winning the SB and didn't come into the season ready to play even aside from the strike
I remember this. I think Parcells said something like -
"People were writing books etc, .... and doing everything EXCEPT thinking about playing football"
But, who is to say they couldn't get the heads out of their asses when reality set in towards the 2nd half of the season and make a strong playoff run?
We finished 9-7 in 2011 and marched through the play-offs for the SB Victory. The 1987 team certainly had enough talent (if they focused) to do the same?
Agreed. Parcells and (agree with Greg), Young, fucked up.
Bad year even with the rebound...
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In comment 15165344 jnoble said:
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Apparently according to Parcells himself, the team was still high on the buzz of winning the SB and didn't come into the season ready to play even aside from the strike
I remember this. I think Parcells said something like -
"People were writing books etc, .... and doing everything EXCEPT thinking about playing football"
But, who is to say they couldn't get the heads out of their asses when reality set in towards the 2nd half of the season and make a strong playoff run?
We finished 9-7 in 2011 and marched through the play-offs for the SB Victory. The 1987 team certainly had enough talent (if they focused) to do the same?
Agreed. Parcells and (agree with Greg), Young, fucked up.
It was mainly Young but I feel way different about it, both at the time and now. I was perfectly fine with the way they handled it. Those games were a joke and a laughing stock and I was kind of proud the Giants treated them as such. There are many players from that era that are dead now from CTE and instead of negotiating a fair deal the owners pull that shit? What an awful time that was.
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In comment 15165502 short lease said:
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In comment 15165344 jnoble said:
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Apparently according to Parcells himself, the team was still high on the buzz of winning the SB and didn't come into the season ready to play even aside from the strike
I remember this. I think Parcells said something like -
"People were writing books etc, .... and doing everything EXCEPT thinking about playing football"
But, who is to say they couldn't get the heads out of their asses when reality set in towards the 2nd half of the season and make a strong playoff run?
We finished 9-7 in 2011 and marched through the play-offs for the SB Victory. The 1987 team certainly had enough talent (if they focused) to do the same?
Agreed. Parcells and (agree with Greg), Young, fucked up.
It was mainly Young but I feel way different about it, both at the time and now. I was perfectly fine with the way they handled it. Those games were a joke and a laughing stock and I was kind of proud the Giants treated them as such. There are many players from that era that are dead now from CTE and instead of negotiating a fair deal the owners pull that shit? What an awful time that was.
Understood, but we were already 0-2 pre-strikes d since the games were going to COUNT, we needed to win all or at least 2 of them to have any chance to repeat as champs. And of course the games/players were a joke (on a professional level), but I would have preferred to attack that as Jack Kent Cooke and Gibbs did
I remember 0-2, then the replacement games. And then... nothing.
We talk about losing to the Cowboys in Week 2, but what about Week 8? Then we lost to the Cardinals in Week 14?
Win those two games are they finish 8-7. The Vikings got into the playoffs at 8-7. I don't know what the tiebreaker rules were in 1987, but maybe we could have snuck in?
Bad year even with the rebound...
OL struggles carried over to 88. That 88 team didn’t run the ball as well as years prior or after. 88 was the transitional year. 89 we were back to being a dominant team in the trenches.
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they got pushed around by the rest of the division and the ball started to "bounce" the other guys way.
Bad year even with the rebound...
OL struggles carried over to 88. That 88 team didn’t run the ball as well as years prior or after. 88 was the transitional year. 89 we were back to being a dominant team in the trenches.
You are right, it did. 1988 was such an odd year with the highs and lows. That loss to Jets in last game of year was just ridiculous.
My son and I streamed a video of the first game that 1988 year the other night...a MNF matchup against the Super Bowl champ Redskins. It was also an odd game as the Giants, without drug suspended LT and injured Leonard Marshall, were outclassed in the first half but kept it reasonably close. Then in second half the Giants got big plays from all three units (O, D and STs) to overtake Washington and upset them. Carl Banks and Pepper Johnson were huge contributors in the win.
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In comment 15165548 Jimmy Googs said:
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they got pushed around by the rest of the division and the ball started to "bounce" the other guys way.
Bad year even with the rebound...
OL struggles carried over to 88. That 88 team didn’t run the ball as well as years prior or after. 88 was the transitional year. 89 we were back to being a dominant team in the trenches.
You are right, it did. 1988 was such an odd year with the highs and lows. That loss to Jets in last game of year was just ridiculous.
My son and I streamed a video of the first game that 1988 year the other night...a MNF matchup against the Super Bowl champ Redskins. It was also an odd game as the Giants, without drug suspended LT and injured Leonard Marshall, were outclassed in the first half but kept it reasonably close. Then in second half the Giants got big plays from all three units (O, D and STs) to overtake Washington and upset them. Carl Banks and Pepper Johnson were huge contributors in the win.
Remember 88 like it was yesterday. I went to that Jets NYG game, it was a Jets home game so tickets were easier to come by for a teenager like me. Pure misery. But the team was sort of back after the 87 debacle. Ended badly though.
No line depth
It was ultimately the lack of long snapping depth that did them in.
(I'm mostly kidding.)
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In comment 15165528 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 15165502 short lease said:
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In comment 15165344 jnoble said:
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Apparently according to Parcells himself, the team was still high on the buzz of winning the SB and didn't come into the season ready to play even aside from the strike
I remember this. I think Parcells said something like -
"People were writing books etc, .... and doing everything EXCEPT thinking about playing football"
But, who is to say they couldn't get the heads out of their asses when reality set in towards the 2nd half of the season and make a strong playoff run?
We finished 9-7 in 2011 and marched through the play-offs for the SB Victory. The 1987 team certainly had enough talent (if they focused) to do the same?
Agreed. Parcells and (agree with Greg), Young, fucked up.
It was mainly Young but I feel way different about it, both at the time and now. I was perfectly fine with the way they handled it. Those games were a joke and a laughing stock and I was kind of proud the Giants treated them as such. There are many players from that era that are dead now from CTE and instead of negotiating a fair deal the owners pull that shit? What an awful time that was.
Understood, but we were already 0-2 pre-strikes d since the games were going to COUNT, we needed to win all or at least 2 of them to have any chance to repeat as champs. And of course the games/players were a joke (on a professional level), but I would have preferred to attack that as Jack Kent Cooke and Gibbs did
Very fair point and I'm sure most would agree with you. I just feel differently. Those games were a disgrace to the league and made a mockery of the game.
I remember 0-2, then the replacement games. And then... nothing.
We talk about losing to the Cowboys in Week 2, but what about Week 8? Then we lost to the Cardinals in Week 14?
Win those two games are they finish 8-7. The Vikings got into the playoffs at 8-7. I don't know what the tiebreaker rules were in 1987, but maybe we could have snuck in?
Following up on my own post. I found an article after the second loss to Washington, that said to make the playoffs, the Giants would have to finish the regular season 4-0, and the Vikings would have to finish 0-4. It was didn't happen, but it wasn't far off. We went 3-1, and the Vikings went 1-3. However, we would have also had to make up a 68-point differential. We cut it in half, but certainly not enough.
So had we beaten the Cowboys the second time and the Cardinals the second time? Who knows? Would have been close.
That said, we should have beaten the Redskins in RFK that year. Had a 16-0 halftime lead but fell apart in the second half. Had a chance late, but got stopped at the 2.
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they got pushed around by the rest of the division and the ball started to "bounce" the other guys way.
Bad year even with the rebound...
OL struggles carried over to 88. That 88 team didn’t run the ball as well as years prior or after. 88 was the transitional year. 89 we were back to being a dominant team in the trenches.
Very true about 88. I remember reading some stat that half of Joe Morris' runs where either for no gain or a loss....which is pretty incredible.
That 88 team did start to play well down the stretch after really underachieving (with a fifth place schedule mind you) but then blew it to the Jets which was sorta how the season kinda went from the start.............
Simms actually only missed a few games, but you could see the Giants had that look of a team with a hangover and not hungry......showed short bursts of potential but always reverted back to making mistakes.
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In comment 15165548 Jimmy Googs said:
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they got pushed around by the rest of the division and the ball started to "bounce" the other guys way.
Bad year even with the rebound...
OL struggles carried over to 88. That 88 team didn’t run the ball as well as years prior or after. 88 was the transitional year. 89 we were back to being a dominant team in the trenches.
You are right, it did. 1988 was such an odd year with the highs and lows. That loss to Jets in last game of year was just ridiculous.
My son and I streamed a video of the first game that 1988 year the other night...a MNF matchup against the Super Bowl champ Redskins. It was also an odd game as the Giants, without drug suspended LT and injured Leonard Marshall, were outclassed in the first half but kept it reasonably close. Then in second half the Giants got big plays from all three units (O, D and STs) to overtake Washington and upset them. Carl Banks and Pepper Johnson were huge contributors in the win.
I remember a quote from this season, not sure who said it, but in the opener versus the Skins the Giants "had receivers open all night" but Simms just wasn't getting the time to throw.
The OL line from 87 thru 88 was a big issue, and started to round back into shape in 89 with draft picks and attitude..........
That was a huge blow to the OL and Nelson, IIRC, was really starting to come into his own and be the best of the bunch.
They never seemed, at least from an offensive standpoint, to never recover from that.
I believe after that Dallas loss, the team would have played angry and would have gotten on a roll, beating the 9ers and Skins - the season would have had aa winning attitude by midseason, different outcome.
That strike sucked.
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Apparently according to Parcells himself, the team was still high on the buzz of winning the SB and didn't come into the season ready to play even aside from the strike
I believe Harry Carson has said that too.
It sure seemed that way on that Monday night opener vs. Chicago.
I was absolutely furious during and after that game. That Cowboys loss sucked too. Ugh what a horrible season that was... lol
That was a huge blow to the OL and Nelson, IIRC, was really starting to come into his own and be the best of the bunch.
They never seemed, at least from an offensive standpoint, to never recover from that.
excellent point
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is Karl Nelson. In the 87 preseason, he was pulled because he was diagnosed with cancer. I even think he went to camp and maybe played a preseason game or two?
That was a huge blow to the OL and Nelson, IIRC, was really starting to come into his own and be the best of the bunch.
They never seemed, at least from an offensive standpoint, to never recover from that.
excellent point
That was a huge blow to the OL and Nelson, IIRC, was really starting to come into his own and be the best of the bunch.
They never seemed, at least from an offensive standpoint, to never recover from that.
Correct, good call.
I mentioned the 1988 Opening game versus Washington above. Nelson actually came back to play that season after dealing with the cancer but he wasn't the same at all. Charles Mann threw him around on that opening night like he was in high school.
I was absolutely furious during and after that game. That Cowboys loss sucked too. Ugh what a horrible season that was... lol
Yep. That was such a huge letdown - opening up as Super Bowl champs for the first time, against a team that had knocked them out in 1985, and they were just awful in that game.
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It sure seemed that way on that Monday night opener vs. Chicago.
I was absolutely furious during and after that game. That Cowboys loss sucked too. Ugh what a horrible season that was... lol
Yep. That was such a huge letdown - opening up as Super Bowl champs for the first time, against a team that had knocked them out in 1985, and they were just awful in that game.
I think there was a story about Toast Patterson being hungover still at game time.
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It sure seemed that way on that Monday night opener vs. Chicago.
I was absolutely furious during and after that game. That Cowboys loss sucked too. Ugh what a horrible season that was... lol
Yep. That was such a huge letdown - opening up as Super Bowl champs for the first time, against a team that had knocked them out in 1985, and they were just awful in that game.
And what many don’t seem to recall, is that Our opening drive was sweet, Simms marched us down the field for a 7-0 lead..
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In comment 15165826 Johnny5 said:
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It sure seemed that way on that Monday night opener vs. Chicago.
I was absolutely furious during and after that game. That Cowboys loss sucked too. Ugh what a horrible season that was... lol
Yep. That was such a huge letdown - opening up as Super Bowl champs for the first time, against a team that had knocked them out in 1985, and they were just awful in that game.
And what many don’t seem to recall, is that Our opening drive was sweet, Simms marched us down the field for a 7-0 lead..
not really. the first TD was on a blocked punt that was recovered in the end zone by Tom Flynn. The second was a Kinard INT return. The last TD was a Simms pass to Stacey Robinson.
New York Giants at Chicago Bears - September 14th, 1987 box score - ( New Window )
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is Karl Nelson. In the 87 preseason, he was pulled because he was diagnosed with cancer. I even think he went to camp and maybe played a preseason game or two?
That was a huge blow to the OL and Nelson, IIRC, was really starting to come into his own and be the best of the bunch.
They never seemed, at least from an offensive standpoint, to never recover from that.
Correct, good call.
I mentioned the 1988 Opening game versus Washington above. Nelson actually came back to play that season after dealing with the cancer but he wasn't the same at all. Charles Mann threw him around on that opening night like he was in high school.
Nelson and Godrey were the best blockers on the OL, pound for pound. Nelson was a big loss.
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In comment 15165928 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15165826 Johnny5 said:
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It sure seemed that way on that Monday night opener vs. Chicago.
I was absolutely furious during and after that game. That Cowboys loss sucked too. Ugh what a horrible season that was... lol
Yep. That was such a huge letdown - opening up as Super Bowl champs for the first time, against a team that had knocked them out in 1985, and they were just awful in that game.
And what many don’t seem to recall, is that Our opening drive was sweet, Simms marched us down the field for a 7-0 lead..
not really. the first TD was on a blocked punt that was recovered in the end zone by Tom Flynn. The second was a Kinard INT return. The last TD was a Simms pass to Stacey Robinson. New York Giants at Chicago Bears - September 14th, 1987 box score - ( New Window )
I’m old
From Litsky, NY Times:
This time, the crowd of 73,426 at Giants Stadium saw flashes of the Giants who won Super Bowl XXI in January. With 1 minute 52 seconds left in the game, the Giants stopped the Cowboys a foot and a half from the goal line. Then the Giants put on a 2-minute drive, the kind that created magic so often last year.
This drive seemed about to end magically, too. It reached the Cowboys' 29-yard line, and with 11 seconds left Raul Allegre tried to kick a 46-yard field goal that would have won it for the Giants. Instead, the ball hooked left and sailed 3 feet wide, and the Giants were beaten.
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In comment 15165945 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 15165928 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15165826 Johnny5 said:
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It sure seemed that way on that Monday night opener vs. Chicago.
I was absolutely furious during and after that game. That Cowboys loss sucked too. Ugh what a horrible season that was... lol
Yep. That was such a huge letdown - opening up as Super Bowl champs for the first time, against a team that had knocked them out in 1985, and they were just awful in that game.
And what many don’t seem to recall, is that Our opening drive was sweet, Simms marched us down the field for a 7-0 lead..
not really. the first TD was on a blocked punt that was recovered in the end zone by Tom Flynn. The second was a Kinard INT return. The last TD was a Simms pass to Stacey Robinson. New York Giants at Chicago Bears - September 14th, 1987 box score - ( New Window )
I’m old
LOL
From Litsky, NY Times:
Quote:
This time, the crowd of 73,426 at Giants Stadium saw flashes of the Giants who won Super Bowl XXI in January. With 1 minute 52 seconds left in the game, the Giants stopped the Cowboys a foot and a half from the goal line. Then the Giants put on a 2-minute drive, the kind that created magic so often last year.
This drive seemed about to end magically, too. It reached the Cowboys' 29-yard line, and with 11 seconds left Raul Allegre tried to kick a 46-yard field goal that would have won it for the Giants. Instead, the ball hooked left and sailed 3 feet wide, and the Giants were beaten.
Yup as I alluded to. If you can ever watch that final clip, maybe you tube, you will see parcells starts to celebrate only to realize it was no good. That snap shot captured 1987 in a nutshell. It was an embarrassing moment during a brutal season.