NFL.com Hanzus on QB scenarios- NYG: Jones, Bridgewater

and his sizeable cap number?

and honestly just plain lazy. Jones is FAR better a QB than Bridgewater.

In comment 15165961 Jay on the Island said:

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and his sizeable cap number?

Exactly. Articles like this are the definition of throwing shit against a wall for clickbait when all it really does is highlight the ignorance of the shit flinger.

not worth the cost of acquisition or the competition circus it could create for no reason, imo. If you're going that route, it's got to be QB with a big future.

In comment 15165961 Jay on the Island said:

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and his sizeable cap number?

They wouldn't.

I just don't understand the continued love for Teddy Bridgewater. Can we be honest with ourselves? He's not very good! Never was!

and always has been

But what it shows is how instant news tries to BS these people....

I guess it's better then

Bridgewater trade value is zero.

If you're going to do that why not just sign Brissett in FA?

Regarding Jones, Duggan seems to think 2021 is make or break also.

missed time in both his rookie and 2nd seasons, the Giants need to consider the backup qb role a little more seriously.

as to 2021 being “make or break” for Gettleman.

In comment 15165995 Go Terps said:

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If you're going to do that why not just sign Brissett in FA? Regarding Jones, Duggan seems to think 2021 is make or break also.

If 2021 isn't make or break for Jones, I don't know what to say. If we get another 11/10 TD/TNT rate, what's it going to take?

In comment 15166010 Producer said:

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In comment 15165995 Go Terps said: Quote: If you're going to do that why not just sign Brissett in FA? Regarding Jones, Duggan seems to think 2021 is make or break also. If 2021 isn't make or break for Jones, I don't know what to say. If we get another 11/10 TD/TNT rate, what's it going to take?

30 TD passes and an AY/A of at least 7.5. Those are reasonable, fair targets in year 3. He gets there and I'm fine sticking with him.

In comment 15166013 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15166010 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15165995 Go Terps said: Quote: If you're going to do that why not just sign Brissett in FA? Regarding Jones, Duggan seems to think 2021 is make or break also. If 2021 isn't make or break for Jones, I don't know what to say. If we get another 11/10 TD/TNT rate, what's it going to take? 30 TD passes and an AY/A of at least 7.5. Those are reasonable, fair targets in year 3. He gets there and I'm fine sticking with him.

I'd take 24/8 and 7.2. Or top 10 in any 5 key metrics including Rate. Something. We have to end these excuses and see quantifiable production.

In comment 15166013 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15166010 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15165995 Go Terps said: Quote: If you're going to do that why not just sign Brissett in FA? Regarding Jones, Duggan seems to think 2021 is make or break also. If 2021 isn't make or break for Jones, I don't know what to say. If we get another 11/10 TD/TNT rate, what's it going to take? 30 TD passes and an AY/A of at least 7.5. Those are reasonable, fair targets in year 3. He gets there and I'm fine sticking with him.

And I would be ok with Bridgewater added as a backup. I don't think he's anybody's answer to an elite QB but if Jones gets hurt he gives you a chance to sneak into the playoffs.

his rookie contract being up. They may not pick up his fifth year option but I don't see them dropping him sooner. In his first two years his passer rating ranks 42nd out of 209 QBs since the merger who had 200+ pass attempts. That makes the top 20%. Even just going back to 2000 it still ranks in the top 29%. Its better than Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Mathew Stafford and Josh Allen had.

I wonder if that was a driving force in keeping DG since Jones was clearly coming back. If it doesn’t work, Abrams/Judge will pick a new QB.

2021 is a huge year.

In comment 15166108 Sean said:

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I wonder if that was a driving force in keeping DG since Jones was clearly coming back. If it doesn’t work, Abrams/Judge will pick a new QB. 2021 is a huge year.

If it doesn't work, I can't see Abrams being the guy because he can work excel. We'd want fresh blood.

In comment 15166132 FStubbs said:

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In comment 15166108 Sean said: Quote: I wonder if that was a driving force in keeping DG since Jones was clearly coming back. If it doesn’t work, Abrams/Judge will pick a new QB. 2021 is a huge year. If it doesn't work, I can't see Abrams being the guy because he can work excel. We'd want fresh blood.

You'd hope so...

They are not trading for Bridgewater

In comment 15166197 section125 said:

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They are not trading for Bridgewater

Oof. Not trying to improve at backup...why? Can't threaten the scholarship player?

the Giants do not think this way.

In comment 15166013 Go Terps said:

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30 TD passes and an AY/A of at least 7.5. Those are reasonable, fair targets in year 3. He gets there and I'm fine sticking with him.

Hahahahahahaha...

30 TD and AY/of at least 7.5?

In Eli' BEST year of his career, (2011, a year his WR corps was amon the league's best) he achieved 29 and 8.1!

So you think it's reasonable to set Aaron Rodgers level of play as "acceptable"?

AND... That clearly is not the type of team Joe Judge is trying to build. Or haven't you noticed that?

In comment 15166430 BelieveJJ said:

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In comment 15166013 Go Terps said: Quote: 30 TD passes and an AY/A of at least 7.5. Those are reasonable, fair targets in year 3. He gets there and I'm fine sticking with him. Hahahahahahaha... 30 TD and AY/of at least 7.5? In Eli' BEST year of his career, (2011, a year his WR corps was amon the league's best) he achieved 29 and 8.1! So you think it's reasonable to set Aaron Rodgers level of play as "acceptable"? AND... That clearly is not the type of team Joe Judge is trying to build. Or haven't you noticed that?

First, Eli is irrelevant to anything related to Jones. Anyone that brings up Eli in any context regarding Jones brings into question the validity of what they are saying.

Second, the benchmarks I laid out for Jones are not exceptional numbers. 30 passing TDs was achieved by ten QBs in 2020 including rookie Justin Herbert, who had a great rookie year despite facing many of the excuses used for Jones's poor performance in his second. 7.5 AY/A was achieved by 17 quarterbacks in 2020, again including Herbert.

I'm not looking for Aaron Rodgers numbers. Rodgers threw 48 TDs and had a 9.6 AY/A...elite numbers from an elite player. We know Jones isn't in Rodgers universe and never will be.

But we did draft him 6th overall. And while I know the standards around here have for some become absolutely pathetic, I don't think it's so god damned unreasonable to ask that our supposed franchise QB that we invested such a high pick in at least be a little above average.

this article, knowing full well it would stir up the usual suspects.

1 thing they've done is taken all the excuses off the table.

They now have an OC that knows what he's doing, a DC that knows what he's doing, a reasonably sound coaching staff, a reasonably sound roster and they aren't breaking in a rookie QB or a bunch of rookie OL. They are distancing themselves from the starting point of a rebuild.

This team needs to compete. Jones, Gettleman - even Judge, who was saying it wasn't about W's last year. I know what he was saying. It is now.

the excuses have been removed.

*Year 3.

*2nd year in Garrett's offense.

*Reasonably stabilized OL.

*And now - the company mantra to get him some weapons which I'm assuming includes a #1 WR.

--------

This will be the context he is judged this year. It's time to put it all together. I think he's going to shock a lot of people.

In comment 15166438 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15166430 BelieveJJ said: Quote: In comment 15166013 Go Terps said: Quote: 30 TD passes and an AY/A of at least 7.5. Those are reasonable, fair targets in year 3. He gets there and I'm fine sticking with him. Hahahahahahaha... 30 TD and AY/of at least 7.5? In Eli' BEST year of his career, (2011, a year his WR corps was amon the league's best) he achieved 29 and 8.1! So you think it's reasonable to set Aaron Rodgers level of play as "acceptable"? AND... That clearly is not the type of team Joe Judge is trying to build. Or haven't you noticed that? First, Eli is irrelevant to anything related to Jones. Anyone that brings up Eli in any context regarding Jones brings into question the validity of what they are saying. Second, the benchmarks I laid out for Jones are not exceptional numbers. 30 passing TDs was achieved by ten QBs in 2020 including rookie Justin Herbert, who had a great rookie year despite facing many of the excuses used for Jones's poor performance in his second. 7.5 AY/A was achieved by 17 quarterbacks in 2020, again including Herbert. I'm not looking for Aaron Rodgers numbers. Rodgers threw 48 TDs and had a 9.6 AY/A...elite numbers from an elite player. We know Jones isn't in Rodgers universe and never will be. But we did draft him 6th overall. And while I know the standards around here have for some become absolutely pathetic, I don't think it's so god damned unreasonable to ask that our supposed franchise QB that we invested such a high pick in at least be a little above average.

Amen. Go in peace.

did Herbert have that are similar to Jones??

The Chargers OL is middle of the pack. He has two WR's who would instantly be the #1 WR here. He did not have a TE with the highest drop % in the league. In fact, he had one of the lowest.

The fixation on Herbert has been a continual thing with you, now you are making shit up about there being the same conditions existing for both QB's??

In comment 15166526 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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did Herbert have that are similar to Jones?? The Chargers OL is middle of the pack. He has two WR's who would instantly be the #1 WR here. He did not have a TE with the highest drop % in the league. In fact, he had one of the lowest. The fixation on Herbert has been a continual thing with you, now you are making shit up about there being the same conditions existing for both QB's??

Typical Terps - Eli is irrelevant and Jones has no excuses. Need 30 TDs this season.

Honey, if they don't get him 2 WRs and a TE that can catch the ball and a line that can protect him, ain't nobody gonna get 30 TDs. Note even Aaron Rodgers. And Rodgers bitched about his team with all the top of the line WRs he had....

...coaches aren't looking at #s.

Growth and production. That's it.

I agree that 2021 is a big year for Jones if he's going to stick around. But, suggesting that there are statistical #s calling the shots is just wrong.

just sitting in the General Manager's office...

In comment 15166441 BigBlueCane said:

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this article, knowing full well it would stir up the usual suspects.

Sorry I wasted your time with this article. All those who posted on this thread should probably apoligize as well.

In comment 15166747 FranknWeezer said:

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In comment 15166441 BigBlueCane said: Quote: this article, knowing full well it would stir up the usual suspects. Sorry I wasted your time with this article. All those who posted on this thread should probably apoligize as well.

There is something to be said about the box-office draw of the "usual suspects" on this site...

In comment 15166526 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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did Herbert have that are similar to Jones?? The Chargers OL is middle of the pack. He has two WR's who would instantly be the #1 WR here. He did not have a TE with the highest drop % in the league. In fact, he had one of the lowest. The fixation on Herbert has been a continual thing with you, now you are making shit up about there being the same conditions existing for both QB's??

The following have been used as excuses for Jones:

1. Having to learn a new system
2. Not having a preseason due to COVID
3. Losing his running back due to injury
4. Crappy offensive line - the Chargers offensive line was horrendous in 2020. I know PFF is a favorite whipping boy, but they had LAC as the worst OL in the league - hardly middle of the pack. Google "Chargers offensive line" and you'll find numerous mentions of how poor they were.

I won't link those though. Instead I'll link a NextGen Stats tweet about Herbert after a game in December:

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Justin Herbert generated a career-high +23.7 Total EPA on dropbacks, almost half of which came under pressure (+11.0 EPA, most in a game by any QB this season). Herbert Under Pressure ➤ 6/10, 131 yards, TD

We could have drafted this guy but we didn't - ( New Window )

In comment 15166552 Brown_Hornet said:

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...coaches aren't looking at #s. Growth and production. That's it. I agree that 2021 is a big year for Jones if he's going to stick around. But, suggesting that there are statistical #s calling the shots is just wrong.

Well I agree that there's not some magic number that if Jones doesn't hit he's going to get kicked to the kerb, but growth and production is going to correlate to better numbers.

Jones can be positively terrible in 2021 and still be better than he was in 2020.

2021 is year 3 for Jones. Amongst his peers in their 3rd seasons:

- Mahomes had an MVP and a SB title under his belt
- Watson had two playoff appearances
- Jackson had an MVP and 3 playoff appearances
- Allen was an MVP candidate and had 2 playoff appearances
- Mayfield won a road playoff game against a divisional rival
- Kyler Murray went to a Pro Bowl and led his offense to 25 PPG
- Justin Herbert threw 30 TDs

Enough fucking around already. Time for Jones to show something real.

.

It seems very clear that DG was given a final chance, why nobody knows. He’s made some good moves and some bad moves. Jones makes sense as being attached to DG. Look at the Jets with Darnold situation. This is his 4th season and there’s strong talk of them going Wilson at 2. Next year would be Jones 4th season. Not saying Jones must go 10-6 this year, but he can’t have 11 TD, 10 INT and 11 Fumbles. Improvements need to happen. They need to get him an offensive weapon or 2 to help that happen but also need to fix some OL holes to make it happen. Can’t be willing to pay him a 2nd contract if he doesn’t show vast improvement. Once the off season (free agency and draft is done) can make a real prediction of what happens. I think this
Scenario 1 they draft an OL like Slater rd 1, a WR or TE rd 2 and sign Corey Davis or someone else tall and maybe a solid slot WR like Samuel, he shows improvement where needed to earn the 4th year.
Scenario 2 they draft Waddle and sign an OL or other needs he shows improvement but maybe not enough if the OL isn’t helped.
They draft a CB and don’t sign the right WR he may not show enough and is gone before year 4.

In comment 15166785 Scooter185 said:

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In comment 15166552 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: ...coaches aren't looking at #s. Growth and production. That's it. I agree that 2021 is a big year for Jones if he's going to stick around. But, suggesting that there are statistical #s calling the shots is just wrong. Well I agree that there's not some magic number that if Jones doesn't hit he's going to get kicked to the kerb, but growth and production is going to correlate to better numbers.

Typically it would, but there are plenty of mental gymnastics that go on around here when posters defend bad positions. Sometimes at an olympic-type level...

there is a 0.0 chance of that trade happening and probably not much better odds that 2021 is a "make or break year" for Jones.

Since 1994 when pro football reference had data on plays Jones leads all Giants quarterbacks in 3rd/4th down conversion percentage on passing plays. In the 2019-2020 season he ranks 17th among 50 quarterbacks with 50+ passing attempts on 3rd/4th down conversions. He converted 115 of 264 attempts. If he converted 7 more attempts he would have been 5th.

Is a downgrade from Daniel Jones.

In comment 15167222 JoeyBigBlue said:

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Is a downgrade from Daniel Jones.

But is he an upgrade from Colt?

In comment 15167222 JoeyBigBlue said:

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Is a downgrade from Daniel Jones.

Only in cost. Bridgewater is a better quarterback.

In comment 15167274 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15167222 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: Is a downgrade from Daniel Jones. Only in cost. Bridgewater is a better quarterback.

I understand you aren’t a Daniel Jones fan, but Bridgewater is not better than Jones. Bridgewater started red hot last season and fell apart once teams started to figure him out. Jones has a better arm (much better deep ball) and more mobility.