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Solder and Zeittler? Affect on FA and Draft

Rafflee : 3/4/2021 7:09 am
Z is worthy as a Keep, with a possible extension/restructure for Cap Fit. I don't see keeping Both guys. Solder is expensive and "sight unseen". Together, they occupy a spot that may be more useful for another OL Draft Pick.

I'd like to see an OL Draft in the top 3 picks...an On Field/close to on-field ready player. The Giants need to bet on young OL players...and they need to add talent to increase their odds.

I also think they need to add At Least ONE professional receiver via FA....I'd like to see Samuel...maybe PLUS a "professional receiver" in FA. That allows them to draft a WR in the first 2 rounds, without the expectation/necessity of making a first year wideout the "#1". Samuel and " A Marvin Jones Type" ?

The first cuts yesterday, especially the Tate Cut, are aimed at the FA capacity---they cut Tate now becausde 6 million in cap NOW is better than 8 million in cap in June.

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I have a feeling that  
section125 : 3/4/2021 7:13 am : link
they keep Zeitler one more year but cut Solder. Zeitler has not been as good as expected, but still a professional RG.
The Giants have to see where Nate's head is at.  
mittenedman : 3/4/2021 7:17 am : link
If his head/heart/body are in the game still, I'd give him another chance on a restructured contract.

We all feel for him on a personal level, which is why it may not be the greatest idea to employ him as an NFL OT. There are plenty of ways to support him financially without putting him on the field.



Zeitler needs an small extension, restructure and hopefully a slight p  
George from PA : 3/4/2021 7:19 am : link
Solder is tougher....out right cut...makes sense...as contract the next 2 years is a massive overpay.

If he willing to take a hugh paycut/restructure....maybe some incentives if he wins RT job...but at best, probably swing tackle.

Tate can be cut now....and placed as a June cut
I was for the Solder signing at the time for  
Big Blue '56 : 3/4/2021 7:20 am : link
reasons stated by many. He needs to go, imo..KZ is not “old” by OL standards, but I’m mixed on retention, though I still feel he’s a good player.
How I would handle  
TommyWiseau : 3/4/2021 7:29 am : link
free agency:

Cut:
Solder
Toilolo
Beal

Extend:
Zeitler for two more years lowering his 2021 cap number.

Restructure:
Bradberry moving some money into 2022 and 2023.

Resign:
Williams (top priority)
Attempt to resign Tomlinson but for a reasonable deal. If it doesn't happen it doesn't happen

Free Agent Acquisitions:
Kenny Golladay
Haason Reddick or Carl Lawson
Malcolm Brown or Marlon Mack
Xavier Rhodes on a 1 or 2 year deal
Daryl Williams

We would bring in a RT to compete with Peart, a true #1 WR (who does have some injury concerns), an young and hopefully improving edge rusher. Competent backup RB who can carry the load until Barkley comes back and a good #2 CB who can play opposite Bradberry with hopefully Holmes improving covering the slot. This would allow us to go BPA in the draft.
Tomlinson is young and rather solid  
Big Blue '56 : 3/4/2021 7:35 am : link
for what he’s asked to do. He’s not getting anywhere near LW money, but he’s also not signing for a “reasonable” price, imv
RE: Tomlinson is young and rather solid  
TommyWiseau : 3/4/2021 7:38 am : link
In comment 15166476 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
for what he’s asked to do. He’s not getting anywhere near LW money, but he’s also not signing for a “reasonable” price, imv


many around here said Tuck wasn't signing for a reasonable price after his 2008 season... and he did just that.
RE: The Giants have to see where Nate's head is at.  
Victor in CT : 3/4/2021 7:43 am : link
In comment 15166462 mittenedman said:
[quote] If his head/heart/body are in the game still, I'd give him another chance on a restructured contract.

We all feel for him on a personal level, which is why it may not be the greatest idea to employ him as an NFL OT. There are plenty of ways to support him financially without putting him on the field.


Personal issues aside, Solder was horrid for 2 years and has a year of rust on him now. Cut the loss. I'd keep Zeitler, maybe add a year and stretch out his pay, save a few bucks. He's a pro, can't have all kids.
RE: RE: Tomlinson is young and rather solid  
Big Blue '56 : 3/4/2021 7:44 am : link
In comment 15166478 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
In comment 15166476 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


for what he’s asked to do. He’s not getting anywhere near LW money, but he’s also not signing for a “reasonable” price, imv



many around here said Tuck wasn't signing for a reasonable price after his 2008 season... and he did just that.


Listen, that would be GREAT..I’m thinking Tuck was the outlier..I’d love Tomlinson back
Zeitler  
Chip : 3/4/2021 7:44 am : link
you either extend which would be my preference or you let him go. You can't pay him the contract amount with a declining cap.
Tommy, you crushed it.  
mittenedman : 3/4/2021 7:45 am : link
Really opens up BPA in draft.
Although I think they were firing  
mittenedman : 3/4/2021 7:45 am : link
a warning shot to Beal.
Tommy....lives in a world of limitless cap  
George from PA : 3/4/2021 7:48 am : link
.
I'd be surprised if Zeitler is let go  
JonC : 3/4/2021 8:07 am : link
Perhaps they work on a short extension with some new money to bring his cap number down, as the OL needs the veteran help it has. Solder is a paycut candidate, would be surprised if it doesn't happen and would expect him to be cut if it were the case.

I know we all want to see the Giants make significant and strategic additions during UFA, but retaining LW and adding some veteran depth is going to eat much of the cap space they open up. Maybe they let Tomlinson go and sign an Edge or a second tier WR.
RE: I have a feeling that  
Jimmy Googs : 3/4/2021 8:12 am : link
In comment 15166460 section125 said:
Quote:
they keep Zeitler one more year but cut Solder. Zeitler has not been as good as expected, but still a professional RG.


Yeah, this feels right. Especially since starting Right Tackle is still an unknown at this point so they probably want a "known" on that side.

The hitch may be though his salary impairs what they need to compete for the Def Tackles and a free agent WR...
Tommy lives in a world of  
Chip : 3/4/2021 8:12 am : link
back loading contracts which I agree with for this season. The problem being is ownership spending after a year of no fans in the seats. The other issue being a family that makes its living from football after a year of no fans in the seats.
Not sure what the team has planned for Solder  
Beer Man : 3/4/2021 8:27 am : link
A report earlier in the week said the team was going to ask him renegotiate. So they are at least considering retaining his services for one more season.
As others have said already  
rasbutant : 3/4/2021 8:32 am : link
Extend Zeitler, either to move money around or to actually keep him another couple years at a lower per year cost.

They can add a voidable year to the contract to lower the hit this year and push that CAP hit to 2022. This isn't ideal because i don't believe he is worth 12.5M. But if you don't want to lose him this year and you don't want to invest beyond this season, and he isn't willing to take a straight salary cut. Then this is a way to make CAP space this year and push it down the road.
RE: Tommy....lives in a world of limitless cap  
TommyWiseau : 3/4/2021 8:37 am : link
In comment 15166493 George from PA said:
Quote:
.


go look at the Cowboys contracts then the Giants contracts and tell me which team is doing a better job at managing the cap. The cowboys seemingly sign everyone to monster contracts with all of BBI yelling from the rafters "they will be in cap hell soon!!!!!" which in reality never comes to fruition.
Cowboys aren't winning championships  
JonC : 3/4/2021 8:40 am : link
Giants are probably a year or two away from starting to borrow from the future in order to be ready for an open window.
RE: Cowboys aren't winning championships  
TommyWiseau : 3/4/2021 8:41 am : link
In comment 15166546 JonC said:
Quote:
Giants are probably a year or two away from starting to borrow from the future in order to be ready for an open window.


Neither are the Giants.
My last point stands  
JonC : 3/4/2021 8:43 am : link
.
Cowboys aren't really a winning model to follow  
JonC : 3/4/2021 8:44 am : link
that's just fan cap envy.
Never said they were a  
TommyWiseau : 3/4/2021 8:45 am : link
winning model to follow. I said they manage the cap better then the Giants
ANd the division  
TommyWiseau : 3/4/2021 8:46 am : link
is completely wide open. Not one team is leagues better then the other. We can win the division this year if things fall right and Jones, who NEEDS the help for his development, actually gets the help and shows he can be a starting QB in this league
RE: How I would handle  
bw in dc : 3/4/2021 8:51 am : link
In comment 15166473 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
free agency:

Cut:
Solder
Toilolo
Beal

Extend:
Zeitler for two more years lowering his 2021 cap number.

Restructure:
Bradberry moving some money into 2022 and 2023.

Resign:
Williams (top priority)
Attempt to resign Tomlinson but for a reasonable deal. If it doesn't happen it doesn't happen

Free Agent Acquisitions:
Kenny Golladay
Haason Reddick or Carl Lawson
Malcolm Brown or Marlon Mack
Xavier Rhodes on a 1 or 2 year deal
Daryl Williams

We would bring in a RT to compete with Peart, a true #1 WR (who does have some injury concerns), an young and hopefully improving edge rusher. Competent backup RB who can carry the load until Barkley comes back and a good #2 CB who can play opposite Bradberry with hopefully Holmes improving covering the slot. This would allow us to go BPA in the draft.


There are some interesting ideas here - D.Williams (RT solution), Riddick or Lawson.

But signing LW, Tomlinson and Golladay???

Two guys in that trio want top dollar for their positions and the other isn’t going to be cheap ($14Mish).

There are better, cheaper ideas available to add quantity and quality.

Give me Schuster, keep Tomlinson, let LW hit the market, add Thuney,
Ok, but to what end? They're an ordinary franchise, at best.  
JonC : 3/4/2021 8:53 am : link
Yeah we're not bridging the gap on this train of thought. The Giants are far from winning a championship, shitty division or not. Failing to see the roster for what it was and trying to go for it in 2018 is why the Giants are where are they are right now. It is not much different in 2021. Now is not the time to borrow much from the future.

There has to be a plan, improvement from the draft that is demonstrated on the football field, and a cap balance/patience.
what about the saints  
totowa_gman : 3/4/2021 8:59 am : link
Trey Hendrickson? He had a nice year last year and i dont see his name popup.
Solid thoughts Raf  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/4/2021 8:59 am : link
We have a new OL coach so he may have different thoughts on players on the roster. I think they keep Zeitler but at a reduced price. More cuts are coming from other teams which will impact market. Whether they keep Zeitler should not change drafting another OL in the first three picks if value meets need. We need more competition and depth.
...  
christian : 3/4/2021 9:19 am : link
“Backloading” contracts is a pipe dream and doesn’t happen. Any significant signing is going to include substantial guarantees in the first 3 years. And backloading new guaranteed money is extremely risky for a team, anyway.

Any marquee free agent the Giants sign will have significant guarantees in years 1-3, and a signing bonus spread across the life of the contract.

The Cowboys haven’t been scared to restructure their big deals and convert salary into restructure bonuses, for immediate relief.

The Giants don’t have those big long term deals to ride. Their best bet is getting either Martinez or Bradberry to extend their deals. But that would go against their presumed preference to sign shorter deals and reach UFA again.
christian  
JonC : 3/4/2021 9:34 am : link
excellent post, thanks.
RE: Ok, but to what end? They're an ordinary franchise, at best.  
TommyWiseau : 3/4/2021 9:57 am : link
In comment 15166563 JonC said:
Quote:
Yeah we're not bridging the gap on this train of thought. The Giants are far from winning a championship, shitty division or not. Failing to see the roster for what it was and trying to go for it in 2018 is why the Giants are where are they are right now. It is not much different in 2021. Now is not the time to borrow much from the future.

There has to be a plan, improvement from the draft that is demonstrated on the football field, and a cap balance/patience.


It is much different. in 2018 you had a QB that 31 teams in the NFL knew was toast, them adding pieces to make a run with Eli was stupid. We have a young QB who needs talent around him and a coach who knows how to actually coach.. unline 2018
RE: Ok, but to what end? They're an ordinary franchise, at best.  
section125 : 3/4/2021 9:58 am : link
In comment 15166563 JonC said:
Quote:
Yeah we're not bridging the gap on this train of thought. The Giants are far from winning a championship, shitty division or not. Failing to see the roster for what it was and trying to go for it in 2018 is why the Giants are where are they are right now. It is not much different in 2021. Now is not the time to borrow much from the future.

There has to be a plan, improvement from the draft that is demonstrated on the football field, and a cap balance/patience.


Please stop being coherent. It will be disruptive to BBI.
RE: RE: Ok, but to what end? They're an ordinary franchise, at best.  
JonC : 3/4/2021 10:00 am : link
In comment 15166619 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
In comment 15166563 JonC said:


Quote:


Yeah we're not bridging the gap on this train of thought. The Giants are far from winning a championship, shitty division or not. Failing to see the roster for what it was and trying to go for it in 2018 is why the Giants are where are they are right now. It is not much different in 2021. Now is not the time to borrow much from the future.

There has to be a plan, improvement from the draft that is demonstrated on the football field, and a cap balance/patience.



It is much different. in 2018 you had a QB that 31 teams in the NFL knew was toast, them adding pieces to make a run with Eli was stupid. We have a young QB who needs talent around him and a coach who knows how to actually coach.. unline 2018


You're unlikely to get the boost needed on offense from UFA. Just look at the list of availables, consider the UFA cost, and the answer's clear. Now is not the time to borrow extensively from the future, it makes little sense.
zeitler is the easiest cut on the roster  
GiantsFan84 : 3/4/2021 10:07 am : link
an older player who will not be part of the solution when this team is ready to compete (and they are not ready to compete this year). a player who has a salary not in-line with his performance. there is zero reason to pay him this year.

and to talk about extending him? that's crazy talk. he was bad two years ago and ok this year. he's only going to get worse with age.

play hernandez and lemiuex or sign someone good and younger for the money they are paying zeitler. it's a no brainer.

only option with zeitler to me would be a straight pay cut
RE: I have a feeling that  
Ivan15 : 3/4/2021 10:12 am : link
In comment 15166460 section125 said:
Quote:
they keep Zeitler one more year but cut Solder. Zeitler has not been as good as expected, but still a professional RG.


Yes, Zeitler should stay until they have an adequate replacement on the roster. Solder won’t be missed, unfortunately.
FA spending will (at least should) be about  
bc4life : 3/4/2021 10:12 am : link
Signing Williams or Tomlinson at an acceptable price.

The rest should be some bargain shopping - I'd be looking for TE (Manhertz form Panthers), maybe a CB, possibly an RB.

Team is getting better but they need more talent. Big spending in FA might help improve team but not a smart way to build
You can't  
Dnew15 : 3/4/2021 10:16 am : link
pay a "professional" RG $14.5 mil. - top 5 at his position in the NFL.

He's got to go.

Use that money to sign Thuney or D. Williams. Which for the same price will give them versatility and more than just "professionalism".
We keep pushing this mystical  
mittenedman : 3/4/2021 10:34 am : link
deserving to be competitive down the road. When is it OK to start winning again? I see this team as the 2004 Giants - they need some major pieces to get them over the hump.

The Giants need a 2005-like offseason, signing impact free agents. Now is the time to be aggressive and start making a run.
RE: RE: RE: Ok, but to what end? They're an ordinary franchise, at best.  
bw in dc : 3/4/2021 10:49 am : link
In comment 15166623 JonC said:
Quote:

You're unlikely to get the boost needed on offense from UFA. Just look at the list of availables, consider the UFA cost, and the answer's clear. Now is not the time to borrow extensively from the future, it makes little sense.


Here is the push-back on this - Daniel Jones.

The clock is ticking on his expiration date and we need to see if he's got the goods to be the QB. So we just need more infantry for him, which is going to involve more cap investments...
JonC - I think you're ignoring  
mittenedman : 3/4/2021 10:53 am : link
the statement the Giants made RE: getting Jones weapons. They will be aggressive.

It would be surprising if they didn't get a bonafide #1 WR in here somehow.
RE: JonC - I think you're ignoring  
GiantsFan84 : 3/4/2021 10:56 am : link
In comment 15166682 mittenedman said:
Quote:
the statement the Giants made RE: getting Jones weapons. They will be aggressive.

It would be surprising if they didn't get a bonafide #1 WR in here somehow.


yea in the draft. they are going to have shep and slayton who will play. that leaves room for 1 more WR in base packages
RE: JonC - I think you're ignoring  
JonC : 3/4/2021 11:05 am : link
In comment 15166682 mittenedman said:
Quote:
the statement the Giants made RE: getting Jones weapons. They will be aggressive.

It would be surprising if they didn't get a bonafide #1 WR in here somehow.


I'm not ignoring, but I do think that player isn't available. The WRs that could be are warts city, and that's where we shouldn't volunteer spending big UFA dollars. It's the crux of the debate.

Who is that player? Golladay? Nope. Robinson? Not really. Godwin? He's getting tagged, I wager. Corey Davis? Headcase. Rinse and repeat.
I'm with you JonC  
Dnew15 : 3/4/2021 11:10 am : link
winning the #1 WR prize this year is going to be darn near impossible.

1st - I don't think the "big 3" will all make it to the open market

2nd - other teams with more cap space are also going to be shopping for that limited crop of players
I could see signing Marvin Jones  
JonC : 3/4/2021 11:15 am : link
or a WR in his caliber range, then adding a premium draft pick to round out the top of the unit. But, I don't see the path or player available for adding a #1 via UFA.
Ugh...  
Dnew15 : 3/4/2021 11:18 am : link
I have no use for Marvin Jones.

I also have serious concerns about the Waddle/Smith (what's the difference between those guys and Shepard/SLayton) and Pitts (1st rd TE bust at an outrageous rate).

I know that the priority of this offseason seems to be getting DJ some offensive weapons - but when I look at the options - I feel like they're trying to shove a square peg into a round hole.
RE: I'm with you JonC  
bw in dc : 3/4/2021 11:20 am : link
In comment 15166701 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
winning the #1 WR prize this year is going to be darn near impossible.

1st - I don't think the "big 3" will all make it to the open market

2nd - other teams with more cap space are also going to be shopping for that limited crop of players


But the offensive challenges could be solved with other material investments outside of acquiring a true #1 WR, and I'm just spit-balling here, with:

-- A Thuney or a Trent Williams to bolster the OL
-- A Schuster, Samuels, Bourne, Watkins, etc combo to upgrade WR.

It's just as important in 2021 in finding out what we have in Daniel Jones as it is to winning.

Because of his uninspiring play, we are in a very tough spot...
Ok, I'm gonna take a stab at this....  
Dinger : 3/4/2021 11:45 am : link
Solder - can we 'restructure' him by giving him a 2 year deal for $4 mm/year and cut him next year? Does that get rid of 'dead cap' hit in June? Keep him as a swing or RT and ease Peart in again this season? If we were to cut him we'll need a tackle and are you going to pay BIG money for a good tackle diverting money from a LW deal or are you looking for what we had in Fleming which is what we will probably have in Solder. Zeitler they should look to resign to a longer deal as I think we need him more as we are less 'set' at guard. Something is up with Hernandez and Lemieux needs time at least. Either way they still need to pick up a OL in the top 3 or 4 rounds. Though it was improved the OL still has a way to go.
Not a true #1 WR out there  
Payasdaddy : 3/4/2021 11:46 am : link
A bunch of good 2s who may be paid as ones
I do think we need to bring in the proverbial”professional “ wr along with draft a WR in first two rds
Heck I am down with another wr in mid rds too
If there is real depth in the draft at war, use it
To help out jones though, we need a vet also. Someone to hit the ground running
Who knows how quickly a rookie adapts
Would be fine with waddle, Wyatt Davis wr and TE in first 4 rds
Fill in defense with a couple mid tier FA moves
Martinez was a meh move when I first read it, turned out much better than I expected
Bradbury surpassed expectations too.
RE: I'd be surprised if Zeitler is let go  
sb from NYT Forum : 3/4/2021 12:10 pm : link
In comment 15166508 JonC said:
Quote:
Perhaps they work on a short extension with some new money to bring his cap number down, as the OL needs the veteran help it has. Solder is a paycut candidate, would be surprised if it doesn't happen and would expect him to be cut if it were the case.

I know we all want to see the Giants make significant and strategic additions during UFA, but retaining LW and adding some veteran depth is going to eat much of the cap space they open up. Maybe they let Tomlinson go and sign an Edge or a second tier WR.


I agree, but I would not be surprised if Solder believes he can get a better deal in FA than he will from the Giants when they request a pay cut. In other words, Solder will refuse the Giants pay cut offer so that the Giants will be forced to cut him, and then he'll sign somewhere else.

I can see the Giants extending Zeitler to 2022 so that they are not stuck with only one OG (Lemieux) if they decide not to offer Hernandez a 2nd contract.
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