Can the Giants compete in 2021?

In comment 15167042 Dankbeerman said:

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9 wins. Once you win more then you lose you can think about playoffs. Once you get to the playoffs you can think about championships.

The Giants were 8-8 in 2006 and won the Super Bowl in 2007. The Niners were 4-12 in 2018 and went to the Super Bowl in 2019. The Rams were 4-12 in 1998 and won the Super Bowl in 1999.

I expect the offense to be better. Our skill position group was arguably the worst in the NFL last year. We will be adding a legitimate #1 stud RB and are likely to add a #1 WR through FA/the draft. The skill position group could see the biggest leap because Engram/Slayton/Shepard are much better supporting pieces than primary pieces to an offense. The OL was still inconsistent and simply bad last year, but there were longer stretches of solid play than we've seen in years. Hopefully they improve, but it's been almost a decade of ineptitude for the OL so I'm not optimistic. Daniel Jones will have a make or break season, hopefully he delivers.

The defense, on the other hand was strong, but it felt like the team heavily relied on a bit of smoke and mirrors to create a strong pass rush as well as career years from Williams and Bradberry. I trust Judge/Graham a ton when it comes to their vision on the defensive side, but I don't think this team replicates last year's defensive performance unless we bring back Wiliams + add atleast 1 impact EDGE or CB to the team.

This is the NFL, all it takes is for a handful of players to exceed expectations including your QB, and you can go from 6 wins to 9+ wins. It's still way too early to say what kind of team the Giants will be next year, but Judge does seem like he has them going in the right direction.

GD

They should compete. But this is the year Jones becomes a primary factor. No more plausible deniability.

He's got to turn the corner from being brought down by his surroundings, and bring up his surroundings.

There's a recent first round QB, who's 8 games over .500, 64% completion rate, nearly 2:1 TDs:Int. -- and he's days away from not having a job.

You've got to be a lot better than that to be a consistent winner, who's not a mark.

They can do that. Two big obstacles are Washington’s D and Dallas O. Another corner on D will help with that matchup. Better OL play, Barkley and a WR threat will help on O.

Two wildcards for me are Jones and Judge. Can Judge elevate expectations and follow through? If you listened to him last year it was more about the process. Next step is raising expectations.

A slightly improved Jones may win a division anything more will require a huge step up.

Imo things are looking up. I have concerns with Jones but I see it coming together elsewhere.

2020 was a rebuilding year with the new staff. Aside from the new staff, this is also a rebuilding roster. I think 2021 is where we become a potential playoff team ( I really think we need to make the playoffs). 2022 we move ahead a bit from that, maybe a strong playoff team. 2023 we should be talked about as a sleeper superbowl pick.

So to me, 2023 - 2025 should be our window. I think the coaching staff aligns with that certainly. I believe DJ aligns with that but obviously if that is a mistake then I'm wrong about our window.

Not sure if our front office can manage the roster in alignment with that though, specifically replacing key players that don't last into that window with sufficient replacements.

In comment 15167128 D HOS said:

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2020 was a rebuilding year with the new staff. Aside from the new staff, this is also a rebuilding roster. I think 2021 is where we become a potential playoff team ( I really think we need to make the playoffs). 2022 we move ahead a bit from that, maybe a strong playoff team. 2023 we should be talked about as a sleeper superbowl pick. So to me, 2023 - 2025 should be our window. I think the coaching staff aligns with that certainly. I believe DJ aligns with that but obviously if that is a mistake then I'm wrong about our window. Not sure if our front office can manage the roster in alignment with that though, specifically replacing key players that don't last into that window with sufficient replacements.

Right now, our front office has its hands full in determining whether the franchise tag they gave out a year ago was to a Defensive Tackle or a Defensive End.

I ma sure they will move onto this whole "window thing" right after that is over...

One of those was without their QB

-2nd year for the staff and first real offseason
- Year 3, DJ should improve. Not learning a new offense on Zoom calls this year will help
- Saquon, who offense was built around, is back
- Young Ol like Gates, Thomas, Lemieux will improve
- likely won’t be playing street FA’s like Sheard and UDFA’s like Lalos at EDGE rusher with return of Carter/Ximines
- full year of McKinney, Holmes getting some seasoning
- hopefully adding some weapons and not relying on a washed up Tate, CJ Board and whatever else they had last year

As for losing guys like Zeitler and possibly Dalvin due to the cap, this is something almost every NFL is dealing with.

In comment 15166913 djm said:

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In comment 15166908 Go Terps said: Quote: The QB and OC aren't particularly good; that alone is enough to undermine a roster that's strong elsewhere...let alone one as weak as the Giants'. I expect anywhere from 5-11 to 8-8. So a regression from 2020? Why a regression? The OL SHOULD improve. Jones SHOULD improve. The D should be as good or even better. Shouldn't poke the bear, but I can't resist.

Why "SHOULD" the OL improve?
Why "SHOULD" Jones improve?

Improvement year over year is not a guarantee. In again vets it is almost certainly going to be the opposite, their play will degrade from year to year. You guys don't always respond to coaching, or to NFL training for whatever reason. It is not a guarantee that they improves. Exhibit A is Hernandez. He had a decent rookie season, but has gotten worse every year thereafter.
Until a player proves it on the field, you simply cannot rely on year over year individual player improvement. It's an unknown variable. There are no "SHOULD"s. Should's don't count. If they did, then hey, I SHOULD have won that $660M powerball! Please pay me!

In comment 15167016 ryanmkeane said:

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a lot of our young talent who a lot of fans wanted to give up on magically started playing better under Judge. I think Shurmur was way way worse than we even thought during his tenure. Another solid draft and good value signings and we should win 9-11 games and the division. That’s my expectation.

What "young talent who a lot of fans wanted to give up on magically started playing better under Judge"? Please name them! And naming rookies or players in their first year with the Giants don't count, because you saud young talent that fans wanted to give up on. That would mean they had to be here for a while for us to give up on them.

What young talent brought in in 2018 or 2029 played significantly better?

Jones?
Barkley?
Carter?
Ximines?
Hernandez?
Baker?
Love?
Connelly?
D.Slayton?
Ballentine?
Asafo-Adjei?
C.Slayton?
Hill?
Lauletta?
McIntosh?

About the only one you can argue for magic improvment is Gates. But nobody was giving up on him. He showed flashes. The only questions were could he make the switch to center successfully? That is never a given.
You can argue D.Lawrence. Nobody was giving up on him, and his play was fine, but about the same in both years.

So please, enlighten me and enumerate the "young talent who a lot of fans wanted to give up on magically started playing better under Judge".

.

In comment 15167293 .McL. said:

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In comment 15166913 djm said: Quote: In comment 15166908 Go Terps said: Quote: The QB and OC aren't particularly good; that alone is enough to undermine a roster that's strong elsewhere...let alone one as weak as the Giants'. I expect anywhere from 5-11 to 8-8. So a regression from 2020? Why a regression? The OL SHOULD improve. Jones SHOULD improve. The D should be as good or even better. Shouldn't poke the bear, but I can't resist. Why "SHOULD" the OL improve? Why "SHOULD" Jones improve? Improvement year over year is not a guarantee. In *aging* vets it is almost certainly going to be the opposite, their play will degrade from year to year. *Young* guys don't always respond to coaching, or to NFL training for whatever reason. It is not a guarantee that they improves. Exhibit A is Hernandez. He had a decent rookie season, but has gotten worse every year thereafter. Until a player proves it on the field, you simply cannot rely on year over year individual player improvement. It's an unknown variable. There are no "SHOULD"s. Should's don't count. If they did, then hey, I SHOULD have won that $660M powerball! Please pay me!

bah, typos... Sorry...
Fixed above

In comment 15167297 .McL. said:

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In comment 15167016 ryanmkeane said: Quote: a lot of our young talent who a lot of fans wanted to give up on magically started playing better under Judge. I think Shurmur was way way worse than we even thought during his tenure. Another solid draft and good value signings and we should win 9-11 games and the division. That’s my expectation. What "young talent who a lot of fans wanted to give up on magically started playing better under Judge"? Please name them! And naming rookies or players in their first year with the Giants don't count, because you saud young talent that fans wanted to give up on. That would mean they had to be here for a while for us to give up on them. What young talent brought in in 2018 or 2029 played significantly better? Jones? Barkley? Carter? Ximines? Hernandez? Baker? Love? Connelly? D.Slayton? Ballentine? Asafo-Adjei? C.Slayton? Hill? Lauletta? McIntosh? About the only one you can argue for magic improvment is Gates. But nobody was giving up on him. He showed flashes. The only questions were could he make the switch to center successfully? That is never a given. You can argue D.Lawrence. Nobody was giving up on him, and his play was fine, but about the same in both years. So please, enlighten me and enumerate the "young talent who a lot of fans wanted to give up on magically started playing better under Judge".

Let's keep playing this game and extend it to 2017 new arrivals... Which of these players "magically started playing better"
Engram?
Tomlinson?
Webb?
Gallman?
Moss?
Bisnowaty?

Tomlinson has been consistently good but not great, he didn't really improve. Also, nobody gave up on him. Most would like to have him back if possible.
Gallman finally got playing time because Barkley was hurt, it's really hard to say if he improved, or just got more time. I don't think anybody was giving up on him or looking to run him off the team.
Engram... LOL

Gates is the only young player on offense I think played demonstrably better YoY.

Peppers also played better on the other side of the ball.

The big jump in play was from the new veterans.

In comment 15167311 christian said:

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Gates is the only young player on offense I think played demonstrably better YoY. Peppers also played better on the other side of the ball. The big jump in play was from the new veterans.

agreed
ANd I don't think enybody ever gave up on Gate. I think there was some frustration with Peppers, but I don't think most gave up on him after only 1 season.

that we SHOULD EXPECT IMPROVEMENT...