So at 11, Waddle and Parsons are there, who ya takin’?

there are plenty of receivers they can draft later on who will be good. i keep saying this, but i think terry from FSU is VASTLY underrated. guy is big, fast, good after the catch, and has good hands

probably more than the average BBIer. He is truly a demon with the ball in his hands.

But I'd take Parsons over him. He's simply the best defensive player in this draft and it's not really that close imo.

My pick would be Parsons.

for me with almost no hesitation.

as well.

I think he can do a lot of things this defense (or any defense really) needs to become a really, really good unit.

Is the exact player the dc wants and joe judge loves linebackers.

agreed about Terry. FSU QBs have been so awful. I think that is a big factor on why he is overlooked some

is that all the teams will need to do a thorough job of making sure the character concerns aren't real or are atleast overblown.

It does need to be pointed out that his pass coverage has some question marks around it too, which isn't ideal in the modern NFL.

He's the rarer player.
Giants DL keeping blockers off him, playing next to Martinez? Good fit. Parsons can be a game wrecker.

Then hope Terrace Marshall is there for our 2nd round pick.

God I can only hope these are our first 2 picks

They both are impressive prospects but I would choose Waddle over Parsons. Yeah, his ankle needs to check out but he seems special to me.
Also, Parsons has more question marks than Waddle in terms of maturity and off the field. I feel Waddle is more cleaner prospect than Parsons. Also, Daniel Jeremiah, Gil Brandt, Dane Brugler which I respect as draft experts all have Waddle ahead of Parsons so I know I’m not the only one who thinks Waddle is favored. However, I like Parsons too, as long as Judge and Getty and coach Chaos vetted Parsons.

The Giants staff should know both players well.

This team has zero playmakers on offense. We have to eventually find out what Jones is, and we can’t do that without giving him a weapon.

Parsons is a quality player, and even though the red flags about his personality are likely embellished, they still scare me.

Waddle is the safer prospect and probably then prospect with the higher ceiling as well.

Even if they sign a WR in free agency, I would still take Smith, Waddle, or Pitts (in that order) at #11.

So Parsons in this scenario. Ideally, I’d rather Rousseau or one of the CB’s.

we still don't know if Jones can be the guy.

But you committed to Jones, so support him. You can't go into the season just hoping for the best on offense.

I’m giving the rest of the draft for #12 and getting them both. Go to bed early and focus on free agency (what’s left).

Bring the 80s identity back

In comment 15167686 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

But you committed to Jones, so support him. You can't go into the season just hoping for the best on offense.

Devil’s advocate given I know squat about these guys at the moment, but assuming MP’s character concerns aren’t deemed deal-breaking and we take him, aren’t there supposed to be a lot of WRs in this class that could help?

in ways on than #11. Free Agency, and rounds 2+, along with Barkley returning.

I'm all for giving Jones everything he needs to succeed, but not at the expense of picking a better player that could take the defense from very good to excellent (which would also help the offense).

In comment 15167690 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 15167686 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: But you committed to Jones, so support him. You can't go into the season just hoping for the best on offense. Devil’s advocate given I know squat about these guys at the moment, but assuming MP’s character concerns aren’t deemed deal-breaking and we take him, aren’t there supposed to be a lot of WRs in this class that could help?

Supposedly. But I don't know how I'd feel if we were relying on a 2nd round WR to carry so much of that responsibility on his back.

it's a tighter call. But I'm not convinced he is a #1. Everyone looks like a #1 at Alabama when the talent is so deep and widespread.

So of the choices, it's MP.

In comment 15167693 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

in ways on than #11. Free Agency, and rounds 2+, along with Barkley returning. I'm all for giving Jones everything he needs to succeed, but not at the expense of picking a better player that could take the defense from very good to excellent (which would also help the offense).

As it stands now, I don't know how you can forsee significant help on offense coming in free agency with their cap concerns. They might get worse on OL in the short term, with this Zeitler stuff.

It'd be unwise to not plan for barkley being affected by his serious injury, even if he says he's ready. He'll probably be on a pitch count even in training camp. We just don't know, but that goes back to "hoping for the best" as a plan for the season ahead. I hope he'll be fine, but there needs to be a multi-faceted approach to fixing the offense.

Tell me who we get in Free Agency and then you can answer this question in a more proper fashion. The real answer is what is the need by the time we get to the draft?

In comment 15167689 Danny Dimes said:

Quote:

Bring the 80s identity back

I’d go Waddle and pray JG knows how to use him. I like Parsons but some of the analysis I’ve heard say he might be a 3 down player in this system. That his best spot would inside beside Blake but not onthe field on the 3rd down.

with either one of them, but id go parsons, and draft a nice receiver on day 2.

In comment 15167699 Bruner4329 said:

Quote:

Tell me who we get in Free Agency and then you can answer this question in a more proper fashion. The real answer is what is the need by the time we get to the draft?

It APPEARS that any difference-making WRs in FA will be tagged or have possible health concerns. Or, too damn expensive..

who can play inside/outside/return.

I think he's excellent at all 3.

My dream would be to sign Robinson and have Waddle inside with Robinson/Slayton outside. Barkley in the backfield.

I want Waddle vs your slot corner.

I think we win more games with Waddle.

your intriguing sentiment aligns with mine. I would love to see Parsons on the opposite side of Martinez, it's about time we have a LB corp that comes close to what we had back in the 80's, sign me up!

In comment 15167698 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 15167693 UConn4523 said: Quote: in ways on than #11. Free Agency, and rounds 2+, along with Barkley returning. I'm all for giving Jones everything he needs to succeed, but not at the expense of picking a better player that could take the defense from very good to excellent (which would also help the offense). As it stands now, I don't know how you can forsee significant help on offense coming in free agency with their cap concerns. They might get worse on OL in the short term, with this Zeitler stuff. It'd be unwise to not plan for barkley being affected by his serious injury, even if he says he's ready. He'll probably be on a pitch count even in training camp. We just don't know, but that goes back to "hoping for the best" as a plan for the season ahead. I hope he'll be fine, but there needs to be a multi-faceted approach to fixing the offense.

FA comes before the draft so we will know soon enough. But I'm all for making a strength even better, especially if I have Parsons rated a decent chunk ahead of Waddle.

Jones needs to play better flat out, regardless of who is here. Is the addition of Waddle going to make him into an adequate starter? Doubtful - it will be a combination of things (OL taking the next step, Barkley getting back to normal, Engram cutting down the drops, Shepard not missing 1/4 of the season, etc.).

Waddle's injury is aa concern, and despite a world of talent, a number of reviewers feel that Parsons is raw and lacks instincts, and that the Penn system was made to order for him. I don't want a 1st round prospect who's going take a couple years to become productive.

WR is a bigger need than LB, but if better player at OL, DL or DB is there at #11, I can live with it.

in Free Agency, I would probably pull the trigger on Waddle here.

Parsons would be great and the choice if a free agent WR or TE comes onto roster earlier, but don't see how they are helping Daniel Jones by going into round two with nothing new for him.

For me it's someone other than the two. Is Farley still available? Is Slater still available? Is Rousseau still available? Is Surtain still available? These are all prospects I would probably favor over either of Waddle and Parsons. Of course, my mind could change a few times between now and draft day.

Quote:

" Jaylen Waddle is a phenomenal player, a phenomenal competitor. He's one of those guys that's Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan. They can make plays when nobody else can make that same play. And he's one of those kind of guys "

I'll take Waddle. I like Micah alot though.

FA money would go to the offense.

If they draft Waddle/SMith/Chase I don't want to hear - well we had a rookie WR #1 and he needs another year to develop to see what we have in Jones....

Cut: Solder & Zeitler

I think my move would be to sign Thuney or D. Williams to sure up the OL. Sign Corey Davis (and maybe even M. Jones too). Sign a cheap vet at DT/CB

Resign LW - let DT walk.

Draft Parsons in rd one - CB in rd 2...

In comment 15167703 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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who can play inside/outside/return. I think he's excellent at all 3. My dream would be to sign Robinson and have Waddle inside with Robinson/Slayton outside. Barkley in the backfield. I want Waddle vs your slot corner. I think we win more games with Waddle.

I'm ok with that plan too - but I would cut Shepard and use that money to sign a Reddick.

He seems like he would be a plug and play day 1 starter at WR in the offense regardless of who the Giants pick up in FA. The injury is a concern, but there is no doubt he is a polished prospect.

There are a lot of young LBs on the team who need to develop and no guarantee Parsons will fit in Graham's scheme. He also opted out of 2020, so that raises some questions on his conditioning and development as a player. I am sure he is athletically gifted, but Judge is going to look for players with team first attitude and I don't know if Parsons will beat Waddle in that department.

With how much I’m not a fan of drafting Waddle. That said, The more I’ve watched on Parsons, I’m not impressed with his diagnosis skills or his ability to cover, or his work on the Edge. Parsons is most effective when blitzing up the middle and beating slow footed Guards or Centers. I don’t know that you can highly draft a guy who’s strength is just that. So I’d hope dearly for a trade down, but if not, Waddle.

Waddle is projected by some to be a sub 4.3 guy. Plays anywhere, inside, outside, ST. Compared to an off the ball LB! Waddle all day.

is the choice over Parsons.

would bring the D up another notch. I’d be fine with him if they fully investigate the allegations against him.and feel that there’s no issue there.

Dont like Waddle or Parsons. I would rather have Kadaruius Toney than Waddle but if Slater is there he is the guy for me.

Parsons hands down. Take the WR in round 2

But Parsons would be the easy pick if the choice is between them.

then he won't be selected until after 15, Parsons likely doesn't make to 11.

My non-QB rankings for the Giants right now is...
Calvin Johnson, do'h i did it again, I mean Kyle Pitts
Chase
Sewell
Smith
Surtain
Farley
Parsons
Rousseau (though he scares the crap out of me, big bust potential)
Waddle

1. Strengthen a strength
2. WR is a deep position in this draft
3. I don't think WR is the need many say it is. Between Barkley, Shepard, Engram, and Slayton this team has plenty of weapons with speed and YAC ability. It's on the quarterback and offensive coordinator to get these guys the ball in positions to create that YAC.

I can't say this with enough emphasis: there isn't a wide receiver in FA or the draft that is going to solve the Giants' offensive issues in 2021. The solution has to come from within.

we might have one of the worst starting WR units in football.

In comment 15167758 ryanmkeane said:

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we might have one of the worst starting WR units in football.

In fairness, a healthy SB will mitigate that problem to a degree

In comment 15167758 ryanmkeane said:

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we might have one of the worst starting WR units in football.

We also have one of the worst starting quarterbacks in football. We also run an offense that doesn't do a good job getting the ball to our receivers in dangerous positions. Waddle, Smith, Golladay, or anyone else isn't changing that.

that's how I feel too. I do think Jones has/had a lackluster cast/OL (especially with the Barkley injury) but ultimately he's going to overcome it or he isn't. There's no Calvin Johnson in this draft and if there is its a later pick that slips or just puts it together in the NFL (like a Metcalf). Unless I'm getting early OBJ production out of Waddle I don't see the reason to lock in on him/WR since its far more likely he's just mediocre.

regardless of what we think of Garrett. IMO he's gone after this year either by firing or to be a HC. Just my gut feeling and based on that i'm not really putting him in the equation long term so the whole system fit isn't as much of a factor for me.

will certainly change how the Offense functions.

Waddle isn't my favorite choice at WR but would probably go with him at #11 over Parsons.

In comment 15167765 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

regardless of what we think of Garrett. IMO he's gone after this year either by firing or to be a HC. Just my gut feeling and based on that i'm not really putting him in the equation long term so the whole system fit isn't as much of a factor for me.

Yep

or if Pitts fell and we took him and Garrett couldn't make it work by week 8, i'd fire him. I don't see the Giants operating that way but maybe Judge would impact that.

Happy as hell that we get one of them. I take Parsons who I think can be every bit the rusher Khalil Mack has been if asked. Him and Peppers would make us multiple on any play.

Waddle has too high of a bust or injury potential. Parsons is a day 1 impact player.

but I'd be shocked if Parsons was available at 11. He's probably the best defensive prospect in the whole draft. When is the last time that type of player slipped?

In comment 15167755 Go Terps said:

Quote:

1. Strengthen a strength 2. WR is a deep position in this draft 3. I don't think WR is the need many say it is. Between Barkley, Shepard, Engram, and Slayton this team has plenty of weapons with speed and YAC ability. It's on the quarterback and offensive coordinator to get these guys the ball in positions to create that YAC. I can't say this with enough emphasis: there isn't a wide receiver in FA or the draft that is going to solve the Giants' offensive issues in 2021. The solution has to come from within.

Slayton is a 2/3 type of WR, Shep is a #3 pure slot guy, and Engram is an enigma with talent but poor performance.

I agree there isn't 1 player than is just going to solve the passing game. But a WR capable of being the primary receiver on an NFL team can absolutely HELP make the offense run better.

Jones needs to step up, the OL needs to figure it out, Barkley needs to stay healthy, the other receiving options mentioned above need to be better. It will take a group effort for this offense to become a good unit. But a WR who defenses actually have to worry about would 100% make a difference.

I chose Parsons over Waddle for the purposes of this thread because I'm not sure if Waddle can be that #1 high volume target kind of player, at least in his first couple of yeas. I see him as more of an all-around weapon and deep threat who makes plays all over the field including in the return game (he looks like a special PR).

If this question is Devonta Smith vs. Parsons, it becomes a much tougher decision for me because I truly believe that Smith can be a legit #1 WR despite the size. And our offense is desperately missing that kind of player.

In comment 15167792 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

but I'd be shocked if Parsons was available at 11. He's probably the best defensive prospect in the whole draft. When is the last time that type of player slipped?

Same thoughts, the talent at ER just isn't there, I think Parsons goes top 9, maybe as high as 7 to Detroit who's defense is just miserable.

So assuming he's there, Parsons.

Years have been players with a bad attitude which can’t be hidden for very long. If two players are close to equal, I would pick the guy who is “all in”.

highlight tape, all his plays are out of the slot. Do we need another slot guy (breakaway speed not withstanding). His broken ankle scares me too and he’s only 5-10 185. Can’t put him outside.

Fanspeak draft
R1 Micah Parsons LB
R2 Trevon Moehrig S
R3 Quincy Roche ED
R4 Benjamin St Juste CB
R6 Sadarius Hutcherson OG
R6 Warren Jackson WR

BPA went defense. Giants go from 9th in defense to top 5!

In comment 15167868 gogiants said:

Quote:

Fanspeak draft R1 Micah Parsons LB R2 Trevon Moehrig S R3 Quincy Roche ED R4 Benjamin St Juste CB R6 Sadarius Hutcherson OG R6 Warren Jackson WR BPA went defense. Giants go from 9th in defense to top 5!

Safety will not be drafted that high, if at all. And I doubt they wait until the third day for a WR.

He's the one.

Parsons.

I like Waddle if healthy but Parsons is a beast and go line up at any linebacker spot along with rush end something the Giant's need big time

.

Doesn't that SCREAM you do just about anything you can to fix it ?

Sure a top-tier edge makes your defense formidable, but I think a guy like Pitt's Patrick Jones in the 2nd round get's you there.

Injuries do scare you and I get that; however, Parson may not be a true 3 down player??? I dunno, but we need so much help that I just want the BPA.

that an OC or DC has to worry about

without bashing the starting QB.

Simply amazing.

It's predictable.

Parsons would be my pick. Clearly, they need a number 1 but I think there will be other wr options in the draft. and I think a less discussed part of improving the passing game will be to develop a dominant running game. I liked thread the other day that talked about RBs. And, I think they need to try and get TEs who are very good blockers and can catch when needed

He was the guy at Bama, Julio Jones, CAlvin Ridley, Amari Cooper, thats the legacy. When everyone was healthy Waddle was the guy you had to gameplan for. You don't do that at Bama and just be a guy. He's fast on the field. Personally I think he can play inside and outside.

I also think the Giants are going to make a big play on offense this year. They know they have to show results and with Barkley coming back DG's going to load up DJ to win now.

I still think they make a big play at WR in FA AND they draft Waddle. I would cut Shep personally and put that cash towards Robinson. Robinson/Slayton/Waddle/Engram/Barkley. Big moves this year.

In comment 15168191 Jim in Forest Hills said:

Quote:

He was the guy at Bama, Julio Jones, CAlvin Ridley, Amari Cooper, thats the legacy. When everyone was healthy Waddle was the guy you had to gameplan for. You don't do that at Bama and just be a guy. He's fast on the field. Personally I think he can play inside and outside. I also think the Giants are going to make a big play on offense this year. They know they have to show results and with Barkley coming back DG's going to load up DJ to win now. I still think they make a big play at WR in FA AND they draft Waddle. I would cut Shep personally and put that cash towards Robinson. Robinson/Slayton/Waddle/Engram/Barkley. Big moves this year.

Jim, I think the concern has been with his ankle. I don’t know how bad his fracture was or whether it seriously involved encumbering structures. What I do know, is if it was a clean break and nothing more, he should be 100% good to go, imo

In comment 15167755 Go Terps said:

Quote:

3. I don't think WR is the need many say it is. Between Barkley, Shepard, Engram, and Slayton this team has plenty of weapons with speed and YAC ability. It's on the quarterback and offensive coordinator to get these guys the ball in positions to create that YAC.

I agree to an extent on this. Our offensive skill players aren't as bad as many claim. But we definitely need to upgrade the OL; and at least another WR. A WR, in my judgment, who is a big target type.

It is critical that we find out what we have in Jones in 2021. His inconsistent play has us in a bind as he enters the third year of his contract. So we are basically compelled to make more investments for him.

However, I differ from you on Garrett. I think he's is much less of a problem than Jones. The guy took a 4th round pick from Mississippi State, thrust into the starting lineup when Romo went down in the preseason, and his offense really didn't miss a beat. That was very impressive...

In comment 15168216 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15167755 Go Terps said: Quote: 3. I don't think WR is the need many say it is. Between Barkley, Shepard, Engram, and Slayton this team has plenty of weapons with speed and YAC ability. It's on the quarterback and offensive coordinator to get these guys the ball in positions to create that YAC. I agree to an extent on this. Our offensive skill players aren't as bad as many claim. But we definitely need to upgrade the OL; and at least another WR. A WR, in my judgment, who is a big target type. It is critical that we find out what we have in Jones in 2021. His inconsistent play has us in a bind as he enters the third year of his contract. So we are basically compelled to make more investments for him. However, I differ from you on Garrett. I think he's is much less of a problem than Jones. The guy took a 4th round pick from Mississippi State, thrust into the starting lineup when Romo went down in the preseason, and his offense really didn't miss a beat. That was very impressive...

He also had Zeke and the best OL in football at the time

In comment 15168226 Big Blue '56 said:

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He also had Zeke and the best OL in football at the time

Okay, but he was still able to deliver 23TD/3INT at a very impressive 8 YPA, and 8.6 AY/A. Completing 68% of his passes. That is a very impressive debut for a rookie.

he's just so explosive -- we haven't had an explosive player like him on defense in a long time

I want to give Danny some skill players -- but I can't pass on the idea of a Parsons on defense

Defense wins Championships!!!

In comment 15168236 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15168226 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: He also had Zeke and the best OL in football at the time Okay, but he was still able to deliver 23TD/3INT at a very impressive 8 YPA, and 8.6 AY/A. Completing 68% of his passes. That is a very impressive debut for a rookie.

How would anyone know how much of that is actually garrett's doing though. Maybe Dak is just a good QB and Garrett just prepared him well. It doesn't mean Jason Garrett is a QB factory.

In comment 15168333 gidiefor said:

Quote:

he's just so explosive -- we haven't had an explosive player like him on defense in a long time

One of my favorite quotes was said about a linebacker on the then Houston Oilers (I forget the name of the coach and linebacker)...
"All that speed just means he gets to the wrong place a lot faster." That's my fear with Parsons. He's my least favorite prospect of all the prospects being mentioned on BBI. Of course, I will trust Gettleman's judgment. He is much more informed than I am.

In comment 15168402 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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How would anyone know how much of that is actually garrett's doing though. Maybe Dak is just a good QB and Garrett just prepared him well. It doesn't mean Jason Garrett is a QB factory.

Fair enough. Wasn't suggesting Garrett was a QB guru but that he was able to pretty seamlessly adapt the Cowboys' offense with Dak.

In comment 15167754 rasbutant said:

Quote:

then he won't be selected until after 15, Parsons likely doesn't make to 11. My non-QB rankings for the Giants right now is... Calvin Johnson, do'h i did it again, I mean Kyle Pitts Chase Sewell Smith Surtain Farley Parsons Rousseau (though he scares the crap out of me, big bust potential) Waddle

Not all that different from me up at the top...
1a. Pitts
1b. Sewell
3. Chase
4. Farley
5a. Rousseau
5b. Slater
7. Surtain
8. Waddle (injury concerns of history)
9. Toney
10. Paye
p.s.--Devonta Smith didn't make it because of his size, but after more research I could change my mind. As for Parsons, more research could change my mind but questions about his instincts and Football IQ are a real turnoff. There are also character concerns that I will leave up to Gettleman to evaluate, but even that one confirmed incident demonstrates poor judgment, poise, and leadership.

Pass blocking is key to QB production and our unit is still mediocre.

But this notion that we need to give Jones’ playmakers to see what we have is just completely wrong. It’s possible to assess a QB’s performance independent of other factors. That’s called scouting. And we’ve seen plenty of QBs play well - and be recognized for it - with mediocre pass receiving targets. The current Super Bowl champion QB is one of them.