Addressing the WR Position

We definitely have a horrific receiving corps and therefore upgrading is a must.

1 - WR
2 - OG (Zeitler cut)
3 - TE (our TE's stink too)

I can see us go offense early.

If we can get one of the top 3 WR in the draft it will elevate the entire unit. No need to drop $20m on a top FA as well. I’d draft another WR with the 3rd or 4th round or a good TE.

and then have the luxury of not having to have force a WR at #11 if they don't like the way the draft falls. Plus getting a middle of the road WR in FA will keep the other teams guessing as to what the Giants will do at #11. If they get no WR in FA, everyone knows that they will be heavily leaning towards a WR and someone may jump them. We've all seen that happen to the Giants! :(

a mid tier FA, use a day one or two pick on a WR, and hope that Sills can at least become a reliable big possession WR. That's about all we can do. People need to accept that we won't be fixing this position group entirely this year.

In comment 15168608 BillT said:

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If we can get one of the top 3 WR in the draft it will elevate the entire unit. No need to drop $20m on a top FA as well. I’d draft another WR with the 3rd or 4th round or a good TE.

I would bet $1,000 at 3-1 odds they sign one in FA. You don't drop Tate and not replace him in FA. You can't draft hungry.

The Tate contract splash should be an indication of their willingness to spend. 15 mill per year + is my guess at what they're willing to throw at the position. Hopefully, they pick an ascending talent.

Baltimore, Indy, Miami, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland all scored 400+ points last year. What big WRs do they have?

The Giants scored only 280 points. It wasn't because their receivers sucked.

I have to think he’s priority number 1 for the Giants.

In comment 15168621 Go Terps said:

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Baltimore, Indy, Miami, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland all scored 400+ points last year. What big WRs do they have? The Giants scored only 280 points. It wasn't because their receivers sucked.

Ravens: Marquis Brown
Colts: TY Hilton
Dolphins: DeVante Parker
Raiders: Henry Riggs
Steelers: JuJu
Browns: Jarvis Landry

Giants: ....

In comment 15168625 Ben in Tampa said:

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In comment 15168621 Go Terps said: Quote: Baltimore, Indy, Miami, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland all scored 400+ points last year. What big WRs do they have? The Giants scored only 280 points. It wasn't because their receivers sucked. Ravens: Marquis Brown Colts: TY Hilton Dolphins: DeVante Parker Raiders: Henry Riggs Steelers: JuJu Browns: Jarvis Landry Giants: ....

Yea another stupid terps comment.

Youre fogetting the other weapons those offenses have.

Bmore-andrews
Pitt-claypool
Vegas-waller
Browns-2 sick RBS


The giants were withour saqoun...not really a fair comparison. Weapons will definitely help jones and the offense

In comment 15168621 Go Terps said:

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Baltimore, Indy, Miami, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland all scored 400+ points last year. What big WRs do they have? The Giants scored only 280 points. It wasn't because their receivers sucked.

Ok...let's compare Olines now. On your list of 6 teams, the Giants Oline would finish 7th last season. That kind of matters when you have limited offensive weapons.

In comment 15168621 Go Terps said:

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Baltimore, Indy, Miami, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland all scored 400+ points last year. What big WRs do they have? The Giants scored only 280 points. It wasn't because their receivers sucked.

If you actually watched the Giants play, you saw that receiver was a weak spot. Do you base your opinions on watching games or just post game interleague comparisons?

What does the BAL offense have in common with Las Vegas that makes extrapolating from both of those teams reasonable?

Is it possible, we have to invest our resources in a "Giants" way rather than some general "league-like" way? Maybe we are capable of building a winner like we have each decade.

some receiving targets and maybe an OL.

Go BPA in draft with some bias in an early round to another WR.

WR is becoming as easy to plug as the RB position. Fix the position via the draft. Golladay and the rest would be terrible acquisitions at their price points.

In comment 15168644 WillVAB said:

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WR is becoming as easy to plug as the RB position. Fix the position via the draft. Golladay and the rest would be terrible acquisitions at their price points.

If it's as easy to plug as RB, why did the Giants have awful WRs last year?

In comment 15168645 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 15168644 WillVAB said: Quote: WR is becoming as easy to plug as the RB position. Fix the position via the draft. Golladay and the rest would be terrible acquisitions at their price points. If it's as easy to plug as RB, why did the Giants have awful WRs last year?

Because they made no effort to address it in the draft last year. There will be plenty of options in the draft this year every round.

expectations and vastly overpaid. I also think the top tier guys will either be franchised or tendered.

WR's are built on speed/agility which comes with younger players so I say sign a 2nd tier Fa (Jamison Crowder/Juju) and fix this via draft.

Use the money to resign the DT's and get a pass rusher

In FA sign TE Hunter Henry. Dump Evan Engram. Trade for anything you can get.

In rd 1 of draft get Slater but in rd 2 take BPA available WR. Then in rd 3 an OT.


Now GMEN have just improved their TE, a 2nd rf pick WR is an improvement to Tate- in fact the 2d rd WR is arguably teh best WR.

Now you have Barkley back so you've improved at RB.

And now with Slater and bpa OT you have improved your OL.

Maybe....sonewhat.??...a little bit??

We we're just starting to exploit Berkeley as a receiver. As both a receiver and a running back, he improves the unit. The offensive line gets better just from a preseason and continuity, and that helps the wide receiving unit.
Maybe Darius Slayton is not a true number one, but he'll get the better and I think significantly so. Dramatic under 4.4 forty speed, good height, and apparently the intangibles too: intelligent, determined, High work ethic. In a sophomore year and probably playing hurt, there's no reason to believe that we've seen his upside.
Having said all that I'm reminded a buffalo situation at this time last year. They had a quarterback that was all over the place and, infact,
Had the worst accuracy in the league and throws over 20 yards. I think they gave up their number 1 in a draft rich in WR's and signed a very expensive free agent. In a move that I thought was Folly at the time.
Bingo, the quarterback pulls it all together and they go deep in the playoffs.
So who knows? It simply emphasizes the fact that we barely know enough to qualify as Observers;, certainly not as prognosticators and, most certainly, not as decision makers LOL.

WR position is worst in league. What’s the over under on number of plays before Barkley is out for the year again? We have a lot of needs.

I don’t expect to compete with any of them for big name FA. The giants will be bargain bin shopping. Which is probably best anyways.

In comment 15168621 Go Terps said:

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Baltimore, Indy, Miami, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland all scored 400+ points last year. What big WRs do they have? The Giants scored only 280 points. It wasn't because their receivers sucked.

Those Rosters have both etsablished targets and multiple young talents. For Instance, Pittsburg had Juju, Johnson, Ebron, Claypool...are you saying that the Giants have/had that sort of talent???? Indy???.... TY and a cast of emerging talents...Plus more than 125 Catches from Talented Backs.... those two teams did have HOF level qb's, albeit at the end of their string.

The Giants were with Shep, Slayton, Tate, and Engram---Shep and Tate played 24 games combined--- do we really need to march thru their results and careers to define this as a low talent and NO DEPTH mix?...CJ Board?...Austin Mack? I'm rooting for these Guys, but the 4,5,6 receivers need to offer something beyond Bomb Squadders.

You don't like Jones?...fine....whatever... maybe you're right, but what does that have to do with evaluating the receiver talent!!!????? Slayton needs to take a Step...Tate is gone, and Shep is a Professional, teetering on brittle physical condition. Engram is useable, with very little else in addition.

They need some talent.....they need another half second for whomever would be your QB.... and they need Jones to take a step up.

But I agree with you in that you barely know enough to be ab “observer”
Your words right?

Points for his position. Unfortunately, he has evolved - into a TROLL.

of grabbing Marvin Jones in Free Agency, the other Lions WR. I know he’s turning 30, but he still seems to be very effective. 76 rec for 978 yds and 9 TDs last year. Those are very good stats and I’d venture to say that he’s every bit as good as Davis, but a bit older. I think he’d be a good stopgap on a two year deal. Could get him on a decent contract too. He’s also got nice size being 6’2”. Then go out and draft your dynamic guy in Waddle or Toney to round out your receiving corps. Jones, Slayton, Waddle, Shepard, Pettis, Mack.

he said he wanted a team that
1) was a contender
2) would pay him big-time

In comment 15168731 Simms11 said:

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of grabbing Marvin Jones in Free Agency, the other Lions WR. I know he’s turning 30, but he still seems to be very effective. 76 rec for 978 yds and 9 TDs last year. Those are very good stats and I’d venture to say that he’s every bit as good as Davis, but a bit older. I think he’d be a good stopgap on a two year deal. Could get him on a decent contract too. He’s also got nice size being 6’2”. Then go out and draft your dynamic guy in Waddle or Toney to round out your receiving corps. Jones, Slayton, Waddle, Shepard, Pettis, Mack.

Not exactly sure what happened in 2020 with Marvin Jones' season.

In the months leading up to around Thanksgiving, he was having a pretty poor season. But then in December the lightbulb seemed to go off and so did his productivity when he had some very big games.

Warning light?

bottomline to me is this:

they need to add 1 veteran starter
they need to add 1 draft pick in the first 3 rounds

doing both of the above gives them a 50/50 chance of adding an impact receiver which imo is the top need on the roster. I mentioned this in the Dunleavy thread but I'd feel confident making argument that of last year's final 4 teams their non-QB MVP's were Evans, Hill/Kelce, Diggs, and Adams. The NYG need to add the closest thing to players like that they can find this offseason.

In comment 15168621 Go Terps said:

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Baltimore, Indy, Miami, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland all scored 400+ points last year. What big WRs do they have? The Giants scored only 280 points. It wasn't because their receivers sucked.

Dude, just stop. Throw the stat garbage out the fucking window

Use the sensibility test, is it appropriate to make a final evaluation 2 years as a body of work as a starting QB in this league ?

Just by asking the question it sounds absurd.

Points scored is stat garbage? All this time I thought scoring points was important.

I just don't get the broader point. Even if you think Jones and Garrett are the bigger disasters, assuming they're not going anywhere, do you just give up?

Assuming the answer is no, it's not unreasonable to have a discussion about how to be improve the offense.

they would need to pivot suddenly to sign a UFA WR. The lack of tags is also a bit surprising, so far.

Fully expect a WR early in the draft, eg Waddle at #11, if he's there is a wise wager.

just a reminder cap space isn't free at the moment.

In comment 15168827 Jon in NYC said:

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I just don't get the broader point. Even if you think Jones and Garrett are the bigger disasters, assuming they're not going anywhere, do you just give up? Assuming the answer is no, it's not unreasonable to have a discussion about how to be improve the offense.

It's not unreasonable at all. It's definitely a problem in need of a solution. I just don't think different wife receivers is the solution.

The Giants have spent exorbitantly on the offense:

Jones - first round
Barkley - first round
Thomas - first round
Engram - first round
Shepard - second round + big contract
Hernandez - second round
Zeitler - big contract
Solder - big contract
Peart - 3rd round

Those are huge resource expenditures. The solution has to come from that list. If the players on that list need an overpay at WR and/or a draft pick to keep them from failing then there is a problem with that list, and we have to start thinking about replacing those players.

.

I just don't see much value in however many points the Raiders scored this year.

to my point from a post above, the final 4 teams non-QB mvps were:
Evans
Hill and/or Kelce
Diggs
Adams

expand a wider view of top contenders and Seattle has dk, NO had thomas, pitt has 3 very good wrs, etc. And if you want to glean anything from the Raiders perhaps it's that their best player is one of the biggest mismatch players in the game, and even with a mediocre (at best) QB like Carr they were able to score a lot of points?

there's no 1 player that's more glaringly missing from this roster than that player, including pass rusher.

In comment 15168834 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15168827 Jon in NYC said: Quote: I just don't get the broader point. Even if you think Jones and Garrett are the bigger disasters, assuming they're not going anywhere, do you just give up? Assuming the answer is no, it's not unreasonable to have a discussion about how to be improve the offense. It's not unreasonable at all. It's definitely a problem in need of a solution. I just don't think different wife receivers is the solution. The Giants have spent exorbitantly on the offense: Jones - first round Barkley - first round Thomas - first round Engram - first round Shepard - second round + big contract Hernandez - second round Zeitler - big contract Solder - big contract Peart - 3rd round Those are huge resource expenditures. The solution has to come from that list. If the players on that list need an overpay at WR and/or a draft pick to keep them from failing then there is a problem with that list, and we have to start thinking about replacing those players.

Heard and understood, but your list mostly illustrates the problem which is none of the money or resources has been spent on a true no. 1 WR who can win on the outside.

To your earlier point, there's a discussion about whether or not you need that guy to have a potent offense. Not necessarily disagreeing about that. But with the current roster and Daniel Jones as our QB he definitely would improve his play if he had a big 6'4 guy to win some 50/50 balls and/or a speedster to take the top off a defense.

I watched him abuse the Tampa CB all night and Jones was unable to get him the ball. It could be Tyreek Hill out there; doesn't matter if the quarterback can't get him the ball.

The Giants have invested a lot in the offense, and need better returns from those players. From an investment stand point the Giants should have the cornerstones covered — top 6 picks at LT, RB, QB, first round TE, and two highly paid vets on the line. They have a pretty well paid slot WR, and outside WR who’s average 15+ YPC the last 2 years.

I think the most economical approach would be:

- cut Zeitler and Solder and use that money forward a younger interior lineman
- sign a swing tackle
- sign a mid tier veteran WR to a shorter deal
- draft a blocking tight end

Without re-signing Williams and/or Tomlinson and without negatively affecting o-line depth.

The line sucked last year so making them thinner at the expense of signing WRs is going to put us in the same position as last year.

There are so many roster holes you can't fix them all in one year. Concentrate on improving lines, worry about skill free agents next year. Improved o-line play should naturally improve running and passing game no matter how mediocre our WR talent is

In comment 15168820 Go Terps said:

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Points scored is stat garbage? All this time I thought scoring points was important.

loved how you pivoted and chose to reply to that mention but fail to address my overall comment.

cause I'm right

Yes of course points scored is a crucial statistic but its a very general stat needs to be applied to all facets of the offense and can't be attributed to just one player.

Then why are we acting like signing a wide receiver is going to solve our problems?

In comment 15168859 Go Terps said:

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Then why are we acting like signing a wide receiver is going to solve our problems?

lol why can't you address my original comment ?

and I don't think anyone is saying that, once again its only part of upgrading the team.

In comment 15168889 Rory said:

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In comment 15168859 Go Terps said: Quote: Then why are we acting like signing a wide receiver is going to solve our problems? lol why can't you address my original comment ? and I don't think anyone is saying that, once again its only part of upgrading the team.

What, about assessing Jones in year 2? It's absolutely appropriate. How many quarterbacks in the past ten years have started as poorly as he has and become a top level quarterback?

Shit by now Mahomes and Jackson had won MVP.

In comment 15168849 christian said:

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The Giants have invested a lot in the offense, and need better returns from those players. From an investment stand point the Giants should have the cornerstones covered — top 6 picks at LT, RB, QB, first round TE, and two highly paid vets on the line. They have a pretty well paid slot WR, and outside WR who’s average 15+ YPC the last 2 years. I think the most economical approach would be: - cut Zeitler and Solder and use that money forward a younger interior lineman - sign a swing tackle - sign a mid tier veteran WR to a shorter deal - draft a blocking tight end

I know I'm in the tiniest minority here

and Mara/DG will need to have a long discussion with NS to see if he still has the desire but man I really like Solder as the starting RT.

Brings vet experience, healthy from taking the year off and will be playing to redeem his value (chip on shoulder)

I truly feel like he could be a different player in this offensive line.

Especially if they find a premiere guard to play next to him.

In comment 15168898 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15168889 Rory said: Quote: In comment 15168859 Go Terps said: Quote: Then why are we acting like signing a wide receiver is going to solve our problems? lol why can't you address my original comment ? and I don't think anyone is saying that, once again its only part of upgrading the team. What, about assessing Jones in year 2? It's absolutely appropriate. How many quarterbacks in the past ten years have started as poorly as he has and become a top level quarterback? Shit by now Mahomes and Jackson had won MVP.

not a fair comparison...

Mahomes came into rosters already built for them to win, including o-line. Jones did not

I think you need to lay off this beaten drum...

And Jones, well...

In comment 15168820 Go Terps said:

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Points scored is stat garbage? All this time I thought scoring points was important.

dude, the Giants scored over 340 pts in DJ's rookie year, with a bad OL and no legit #1 WR. DJ did some GOOD things that no rookie QB had ever done.

Is it so hard to believe that under normal circumstances (2020 was the complete opposite of normal for about 15 different reasons), that DJ and the Giant O could take a step forward from his rookie year, especially with a legit #1 target (who isnt among league leaders in dropped and intercepted passes) and achieve your magic # of 400 pts?

We're talking about 3.5 more pts a game from his rookie year.

Do you really think a better more experienced OL, Barkley and better receiver corps. couldn't translate to 3.5 more pts from his rookie yr?

In comment 15168906 Go Terps said:

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And Jones, well...

Jones is well... in his 2nd year. In baseball we call that sophomore slump.

Should the Mets cut Pete Alonso for his sophomore slump ?

Seriously you and others need to let this replace Jones go shit

Oh yea, the Giants best players that the offense was completely built around was out for the whole effin season.

I'm done

and at the same time totally dismiss the absolute horrendous unprecedented circumstances (it's a list of about 15 things that obviously would affect performance) that he dealt with in his 2nd yr, they can't be taken seriously.