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The '85 Bears.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/7/2021 5:11 pm
Who has seen that 30 for 30 on them? I just watched it for the first time & man...what an unlikable team from top to bottom. Obviously Ditka & Ryan...both total SOBs.

Then you got Dent, McMichael, & Otis Wilson saying that they should have won 3 Super Bowls in a row? GTFO. You didn't because Ryan left, McMahon was a walking MASH unit, & other NFC teams (Giants, WFT, & 49ers) were just flat out better, evidenced by all 3 of those teams beating Chicago in the playoffs between '86-'90. Also, the Bears played in a division that was a complete joke during the '80s, with the Vikes being the only non LOL team.

Also, Payton crying in a broom closet after Super Bowl XX because he didn't get a TD? Dude, you just won the Super Bowl, a game you thought you'd never even get to. Completely lame.

All that said, I enjoyed it, especially the Friday Night Lights like music at the end & how all of them-even if they have CTE like McMahon-would do it all again in a heartbeat.

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Matt M.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/7/2021 6:55 pm : link
Fair enough. The Fridge thing was a bit over the top, but whatever. I just think Payton should have handled it better.
RE: No team  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/7/2021 6:58 pm : link
In comment 15169045 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
has lived longer off 1 championship than the 1985 Bears. They were so dominant that year, but they went ahead and lost 3 home playoff games after 1985 (twice to the Redskins in a row & in NFC Championship to the Niners). They missed the playoffs in 1989 and then the Giants beat the crap out of them in 1990 before they helped jump start the Dallas dynasty by losing at home (again) in the playoffs to them in the Wild Card in 1991.


I vaguely remember the '86 playoff lose to the Skins. It wasn't even that close.
Allegedly the NFC had a lot of injuries in '85 ...  
FStubbs : 3/7/2021 7:01 pm : link
... I read an article that said that 1985 had an usually high number of injuries that hit all the contenders in the NFC except the Bears, meaning they were playing against a weakened NFC. They did go 14-2 the following year so they clearly still had a really good team, but not good enough.
RE: RE: RE: The '85 Bears certainly had a great D  
giantstock : 3/7/2021 7:07 pm : link
In comment 15169049 Matt M. said:
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In comment 15169043 giantstock said:


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In comment 15169014 Matt M. said:


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that was intimidating that year. But, I felt we played right with them in that playoff game. They had a shot until Carpenter fumbled in similar fashion to how Rice fumbled on the opening drive of the 86 divisional round against us. That fumble took the wind out of the sails for us. But, we would have been right in the game if he held the ball.



Didn't the Giants also have a muffed punt that somehow screwed them?

Not a muffed punt, which is a PR not fielding it cleanly. Sean Landeta just completely whiffed trying to punt the ball deep in Giants territory. It handed the Bears a TD.


Thank you!!

Their D was incredible but they are out of their minds thinking they could've won 3 in a row with that offense.

And when it came to their coaching - I'm reminded of one of the Hannibal Lectre movies that he's being interviewed by Will and he blurts out "You think you're smarter than me, don't you?"

He replies, "No Dr, but the reason why I caught you is that I have one advantage over you."

He asked "what's that?"
He says "You're insane."
Ditka and Ryan were insane. Their crash-and-burn style was inevitable.
RE: RE: The '85 Bears certainly had a great D  
PatersonPlank : 3/7/2021 7:18 pm : link
In comment 15169043 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15169014 Matt M. said:


Quote:


that was intimidating that year. But, I felt we played right with them in that playoff game. They had a shot until Carpenter fumbled in similar fashion to how Rice fumbled on the opening drive of the 86 divisional round against us. That fumble took the wind out of the sails for us. But, we would have been right in the game if he held the ball.



Didn't the Giants also have a muffed punt that somehow screwed them?


Wouldn't have mattered. The Giants couldn't move the ball at all anyway
The thing with the 85 Bears was their defense was designed to get  
PatersonPlank : 3/7/2021 7:22 pm : link
maximum pressure at the LOS, Fill the lanes on the run and blitz the hell out of the QB on the pass. It was a 46 defense and in a sense it was gimicky, but no one had figured it out that year. The Dolphins picked them apart because they had the recipe (without realizing it). If you could stop the pass rush you could pick them apart through the air, especially with a guy like Marino. The Bears won because the QB had no time, and the 6 LB's pushed through the running lanes. They bet you couldn't run, and that they would get you before you could pass.
I lived in Chicago in ‘85.  
Giant John : 3/7/2021 7:29 pm : link
Keep in mind always a Giants fan. But there are millions that disagree with you.
They were really good  
Pete in MD : 3/7/2021 7:37 pm : link
at music videos too.
They had everything in D.  
KWALL2 : 3/7/2021 7:38 pm : link
Nothing on O.

Payton was almost finished. They had nothing else on offense including at QB. If they did, they had the D to win several. But there were also some great teams in the NFC at that time.
The best story..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/7/2021 7:41 pm : link
is that they filmed "The Super Bowl Shuffle" video in the bye week prior to the Super Bowl
RE: I lived in Chicago in ‘85.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/7/2021 7:41 pm : link
In comment 15169094 Giant John said:
Quote:
Keep in mind always a Giants fan. But there are millions that disagree with you.


Brother in law is a huge Bears fan. Great fan base. But they came across-to me at least-as completely unlikable/delusional.
RE: The best story..  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/7/2021 7:42 pm : link
In comment 15169106 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is that they filmed "The Super Bowl Shuffle" video in the bye week prior to the Super Bowl


FMIC, I think it was filmed DURING the regular season.
1986 Bears had the best point differential in the NFL  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/7/2021 7:45 pm : link
ahead of the Giants. McMahon was out after the dirty body slam versus the Packers. Ditka started Flutie over Tomszak in the playoff game and Doug was awful. The players wanted Tomczak to start despite the fact he was horrendous that season. They didn’t even need good QB play... just not completely terrible.
RE: RE: RE: The '85 Bears certainly had a great D  
giantstock : 3/7/2021 7:49 pm : link
In comment 15169048 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 15169043 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15169014 Matt M. said:


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that was intimidating that year. But, I felt we played right with them in that playoff game. They had a shot until Carpenter fumbled in similar fashion to how Rice fumbled on the opening drive of the 86 divisional round against us. That fumble took the wind out of the sails for us. But, we would have been right in the game if he held the ball.



Didn't the Giants also have a muffed punt that somehow screwed them?



Landeta whiffed on a punt in his own end when there was a gust of wind and the Bears returned it for an easy TD. Though I've talked to Byron Hunt in the past who was on the field on that play and he said he didn't remember a wind gust, he thinks Landeta just blew it.


Thanks I think he whiffed too!
RE: RE: The best story..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/7/2021 7:49 pm : link
In comment 15169109 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15169106 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


is that they filmed "The Super Bowl Shuffle" video in the bye week prior to the Super Bowl



FMIC, I think it was filmed DURING the regular season.


You might be right. Wiki says they recorded the song a day after they lost their only game of teh year to the Dolphins and released it December 3.

It doesn't say if teh video was recorded then. Fridge said in an interview several years back that they filmed the video right before the Super Bowl, but he did have a penchant for exaggerating.
RE: 1986 Bears had the best point differential in the NFL  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/7/2021 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15169114 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
ahead of the Giants. McMahon was out after the dirty body slam versus the Packers. Ditka started Flutie over Tomszak in the playoff game and Doug was awful. The players wanted Tomczak to start despite the fact he was horrendous that season. They didn’t even need good QB play... just not completely terrible.


They also played in a trash division.
RE: 1986 Bears had the best point differential in the NFL  
Greg from LI : 3/7/2021 8:35 pm : link
In comment 15169114 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
ahead of the Giants. McMahon was out after the dirty body slam versus the Packers. Ditka started Flutie over Tomszak in the playoff game and Doug was awful. The players wanted Tomczak to start despite the fact he was horrendous that season. They didn’t even need good QB play... just not completely terrible.


They played one of the weakest schedules you will ever see and eked out a bunch of very close wins against very bad teams, and absolutely hemorrhaged turnovers. I dont give a shit who they started at QB - Tomczak, Flutie, McMahon - they were never beating the Giants in the Meadowlands in January 1987.
They eked out wins and still had the league’s best point differential?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/7/2021 8:50 pm : link
Quite the feat considering their QB play. My point was that they weren’t exactly a one year wonder. Getting through the NFC playoffs wasn’t easy in that era.
I get  
djm : 3/7/2021 9:08 pm : link
That what made Payton great was that insane competitiveness of his, but that super bowl crap always bothered me too. And I always felt that ditka and Payton’s teammates could never do the heavy eye roll thing when this topic was brought up because of both how beloved Payton was in Chicago but also because of Payton himself. And once he died it became even tougher so all these years the bears players and coaches (notably ditka) just “let it go” with the mea culpa.

Greatest team I ever saw to be sure, but one and done. They were the sports comet or meteor. Shone too bright it wasn’t going to last. Fuck them. Niners, Giants and skins had true staying power.
RE: They eked out wins and still had the league’s best point differential?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/7/2021 9:18 pm : link
In comment 15169175 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
Quite the feat considering their QB play. My point was that they weren’t exactly a one year wonder. Getting through the NFC playoffs wasn’t easy in that era.


They had 2 playoff wins post '85-Eagles in '88 & Saints in '90-before getting blown out the following weekend.
They were OKAY.  
short lease : 3/7/2021 9:35 pm : link

But, they could not even REPEAT.

The Giants stopped the 49'ers from a 3-peat (IIRC)?
My memory of that Giants/Bears playoff game...  
BillKo : 3/7/2021 9:40 pm : link
.......the Giants got down to the goal line near the end of the half after a swing pass to George Adams and someone (Bobby Johnson??) dropped a perfect fade from Simms near the corner.........maybe second down. Then on a third down incompletion, Eric Suebert missed a short FG, Ditka was shown pumping his fist, and we went in down 7-0 at the half.

The Bears were just too tough a defensive opponent, particularly in that weather.

I don't remember a Rob Carpenter fumble that Matt M. mentioned.....
Carpenter fumbled..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/7/2021 9:44 pm : link
right past midfield. At that point in the game, it was the first time we passed the 50. I think we only did it 2 other times the rest of the game.
RE: RE: They eked out wins and still had the league’s best point differential?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/7/2021 9:44 pm : link
In comment 15169199 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15169175 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


Quite the feat considering their QB play. My point was that they weren’t exactly a one year wonder. Getting through the NFC playoffs wasn’t easy in that era.



They had 2 playoff wins post '85-Eagles in '88 & Saints in '90-before getting blown out the following weekend.


They lost in the postseason to the eventual Super Bowl Champions in...

1987
1988
1990

That’s part of the reason I’ve always had so much respect for Joe Montana. Winning in the NFC during the 80s was a real achievement. Joe lost 3 playoff games to Parcells/Giants. The Rams, Vikings, and Eagles never won anything and even they were pretty good.
RE: RE: RE: I don't like the idea of Payton crying in the closet  
BillKo : 3/7/2021 9:46 pm : link
In comment 15169060 Matt M. said:
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In comment 15169057 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


In comment 15168992 Matt M. said:


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But it was highly disrespectful to make it a priority to get Perry a TD and not Payton



While I can't stand him, I think Ditka told the truth when he said Payton getting a TD didn't even cross his mind.

He didn't HAVE to get Payton a TD. But, ensuring Perry got one was a slap in the face to Payton. Are you saying Ditka said getting PERRY a TD didn't cross his mind? That is different than saying getting Payton one didn't.


That game was over in the third quarter (probably sooner).....they should have made it a priority to get Payton a TD - not Perry.

I think it was on a Football Life that Ditka said it never crossed him mind the importance of getting Payton a TD.....with everything going on in the game. Sorta like he lost track of everything (yeah, ok lol).

Hell, even Bill Parcells gave OJ Anderson a chance to score.........maybe he learned from Ditka's error.

Ironically..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/7/2021 9:55 pm : link
part of the Bears downfall or inability to win more with that stacked defense might be the 46 defense itself.

The 46 was a really effective defense in the 80's because it took away the running games that the better teams used back then. Today's spread offenses would render it ineffective.

Gilbride was talking about the 46 in the early 2000's either at the Combine or at a college day and he talked about how the Bears had the personnel to run a standard defense and still be dominant. He didn't believe their scheme was the result of the success, but it was that they had so many good, impact defenders.

But teams like the Niners and the introduction of multiple WR sets were good systems to offset the strengths of the 46.

I thought it was a really interesting point that probably never got explored too much because of the lore of that Bears team.
Again - look at the schedule the '86 Bears played  
Greg from LI : 3/7/2021 10:18 pm : link
And then tell me how impressive their point differential was. Their schedule was total shit. One of the worst divisions you'll ever see and a weak OOC. The Giants had three regular season wins more impressive than anything the Bears did - Washington x 2 and SF.

The Giants won at Minnesota while the Bears got smoked in the Metrodome. The Bears were taken to OT at home by an Eagle team that the Giants crushed at home, 35-3.

That point differential you're so impressed by is mostly the product of two games - Cincinnati (44-7) and Tampa (48-14), and Tampa was a HORRENDOUS team.
I guess no one remembers  
Gmanfandan : 3/7/2021 10:36 pm : link
Opening Monday night in 1987? Giants win in SB'86 Bears win SB in '85 -

This would be the playoff game that didn't happen in '86 thanks to the Redskins beating the Bears in '86

Well we got humiliated 34-19 and it was no where near that close. That Bears team was excellent for years - that they didn't win more probably had to do with the handling of egos.

As for Walter Payton - the man was a genuine hero, and an amazing human being off the field. I get that he could have handled the post game of his only super bowl better - but there's a reason it's the Walter Payton award.
RE: Ironically..  
Producer : 3/7/2021 10:37 pm : link
In comment 15169218 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
part of the Bears downfall or inability to win more with that stacked defense might be the 46 defense itself.

The 46 was a really effective defense in the 80's because it took away the running games that the better teams used back then. Today's spread offenses would render it ineffective.

Gilbride was talking about the 46 in the early 2000's either at the Combine or at a college day and he talked about how the Bears had the personnel to run a standard defense and still be dominant. He didn't believe their scheme was the result of the success, but it was that they had so many good, impact defenders.

But teams like the Niners and the introduction of multiple WR sets were good systems to offset the strengths of the 46.

I thought it was a really interesting point that probably never got explored too much because of the lore of that Bears team.


yep it was a gimmick defense that worked because of the players. Top to bottom that defense was loaded, with Duerson being the guy that made the 46 so effective.
RE: No team  
sb from NYT Forum : 3/8/2021 12:11 am : link
In comment 15169045 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
has lived longer off 1 championship than the 1985 Bears. They were so dominant that year, but they went ahead and lost 3 home playoff games after 1985 (twice to the Redskins in a row & in NFC Championship to the Niners). They missed the playoffs in 1989 and then the Giants beat the crap out of them in 1990 before they helped jump start the Dallas dynasty by losing at home (again) in the playoffs to them in the Wild Card in 1991.


+1
RE: I guess no one remembers  
Greg from LI : 3/8/2021 1:13 am : link
In comment 15169231 Gmanfandan said:
Quote:
Opening Monday night in 1987? Giants win in SB'86 Bears win SB in '85 -

This would be the playoff game that didn't happen in '86 thanks to the Redskins beating the Bears in '86

Well we got humiliated 34-19 and it was no where near that close. That Bears team was excellent for years - that they didn't win more probably had to do with the handling of egos.

As for Walter Payton - the man was a genuine hero, and an amazing human being off the field. I get that he could have handled the post game of his only super bowl better - but there's a reason it's the Walter Payton award.


A game in 1987 has fuck-all to do with the 1986 playoffs. The team that beat the dynasty-era 49ers and the 1987 champ Redskins by a combined score of 66-3 would have lost at home to the Bears?? My ass they would have.
RE: Carpenter fumbled..  
Matt M. : 3/8/2021 2:36 am : link
In comment 15169213 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
right past midfield. At that point in the game, it was the first time we passed the 50. I think we only did it 2 other times the rest of the game.
Yes, but it was a terrible unforced error. If he holds that they likely score, making it either tied or less than a TD spread. The other terrible unforced error was obviously the whiffed punt.

If we score there, there is some momentum shift and who knows how the game progresses? I think we still lose, but I also think we would have been right in it. I also believe that game play,ed a big part in their 1986 success.
RE: I don't like the idea of Payton crying in the closet  
Big Blue '56 : 3/8/2021 7:17 am : link
In comment 15168992 Matt M. said:
Quote:
But it was highly disrespectful to make it a priority to get Perry a TD and not Payton


This
RE: RE: The '85 Bears certainly had a great D  
Victor in CT : 3/8/2021 7:27 am : link
In comment 15169043 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15169014 Matt M. said:


Quote:


that was intimidating that year. But, I felt we played right with them in that playoff game. They had a shot until Carpenter fumbled in similar fashion to how Rice fumbled on the opening drive of the 86 divisional round against us. That fumble took the wind out of the sails for us. But, we would have been right in the game if he held the ball.



Didn't the Giants also have a muffed punt that somehow screwed them?


Yes. Landeta whiffed in one. Also, PK Shubert hit a dead solid straight FG into the upright, claimed he didn't know he was on the hash mark, Bobby Johnson dropped a perfect TD pass.
RE: RE: I guess no one remembers  
Victor in CT : 3/8/2021 7:29 am : link
In comment 15169259 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15169231 Gmanfandan said:


Quote:


Opening Monday night in 1987? Giants win in SB'86 Bears win SB in '85 -

This would be the playoff game that didn't happen in '86 thanks to the Redskins beating the Bears in '86

Well we got humiliated 34-19 and it was no where near that close. That Bears team was excellent for years - that they didn't win more probably had to do with the handling of egos.

As for Walter Payton - the man was a genuine hero, and an amazing human being off the field. I get that he could have handled the post game of his only super bowl better - but there's a reason it's the Walter Payton award.



A game in 1987 has fuck-all to do with the 1986 playoffs. The team that beat the dynasty-era 49ers and the 1987 champ Redskins by a combined score of 66-3 would have lost at home to the Bears?? My ass they would have.


Well put
I flew to the game. We were kind of celebs dressed in  
Big Blue '56 : 3/8/2021 7:34 am : link
Giants gear and hard hats as there were very few of us there. A bunch of fans wanted their pictures taken with us.

In any event, we were only down 7-0 into the 4th, courtesy of the Landeta whiff and Shaun Gayle scooping it up and running it in for a TD..

While of course always rooting against them, I did enjoy  
chick310 : 3/8/2021 8:18 am : link
watching their linebackers play such an aggressive physical game. Otis Wilson and Wilbur Marshall could really bring the hammer down on the QB. Lots of big hits as the OL and RBs could never block them all.

Dan Marino beat their Defense because he decent enough receivers, but moreso the quickest release in football.
RE: RE: I guess no one remembers  
Gmanfandan : 3/8/2021 8:35 am : link
In comment 15169259 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15169231 Gmanfandan said:


Quote:


Opening Monday night in 1987? Giants win in SB'86 Bears win SB in '85 -

This would be the playoff game that didn't happen in '86 thanks to the Redskins beating the Bears in '86

Well we got humiliated 34-19 and it was no where near that close. That Bears team was excellent for years - that they didn't win more probably had to do with the handling of egos.

As for Walter Payton - the man was a genuine hero, and an amazing human being off the field. I get that he could have handled the post game of his only super bowl better - but there's a reason it's the Walter Payton award.



A game in 1987 has fuck-all to do with the 1986 playoffs. The team that beat the dynasty-era 49ers and the 1987 champ Redskins by a combined score of 66-3 would have lost at home to the Bears?? My ass they would have.

I didn't say the Bears would have beat us in '86 -That's not my point - the point is they weren't an over rated one year mirage. They were a damn good football team for years.
RE: RE: RE: I guess no one remembers  
Big Blue '56 : 3/8/2021 9:24 am : link
In comment 15169309 Gmanfandan said:
Quote:
In comment 15169259 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 15169231 Gmanfandan said:


Quote:


Opening Monday night in 1987? Giants win in SB'86 Bears win SB in '85 -

This would be the playoff game that didn't happen in '86 thanks to the Redskins beating the Bears in '86

Well we got humiliated 34-19 and it was no where near that close. That Bears team was excellent for years - that they didn't win more probably had to do with the handling of egos.

As for Walter Payton - the man was a genuine hero, and an amazing human being off the field. I get that he could have handled the post game of his only super bowl better - but there's a reason it's the Walter Payton award.



A game in 1987 has fuck-all to do with the 1986 playoffs. The team that beat the dynasty-era 49ers and the 1987 champ Redskins by a combined score of 66-3 would have lost at home to the Bears?? My ass they would have.


I didn't say the Bears would have beat us in '86 -That's not my point - the point is they weren't an over rated one year mirage. They were a damn good football team for years.


Damn good, largely because of the D and Buddy Ryan
Good teams eventually figured out how to beat the 46 defense  
Dr. D : 3/8/2021 9:56 am : link
just look at Buddy Ryan's lack of playoff success in Philly. He never won a playoff game (0-3) as HC.

Ryan wasn't a great HC and always seemed to overlook, even alienate his offense because he was so egotistical about his D (was even quoted saying something like "my D is so good, we don't need an O").

But he never adjusted and got smoked 21-7 by Jim Everett and the Rams at home in Philly in '89 playoffs (at least we took them to OT). Then they got smoked again, 20-6 in '90 playoffs to Mark Rypien and the Skins.

Another beautiful thing (for a Giant fan who suffered living in Philly at the time, like meself) was how Buddy and the eagles got matched up against the Bears 4 out of his 5 seasons as HC.

It was obvious Buddy hated Ditka and always claimed the Bears won bc of "his D". But Buddy and the eagles went 0-4 against the Bears, including the infamous "fog bowl" in the '88 playoffs. Ha ha!
Why were the '85 Bears one-year-wonders?  
truebluelarry : 3/8/2021 10:53 am : link
COACHING.

They were a physically talented team of bullies who beat up (and padded stats) against weaker competition. The NFC Central was pitiably weak, with only the Vikings being competitive.

Ask yourself, who did those Bears teams lose to in big spots? In 1985 their lone lass was Miami and Don Shula. As mentioned above, what could have been if the Dolphins hadn't lost the AFC CG to New England and gotten a rematch with Chicago in the Super Bowl?

Who did the Bears lose to on their home field in the post season following their title? Washington and Joe Gibbs in 1986 & 1987, followed by San Francisco and Bill Walsh in 1988.

For good measure, the tandem of Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick put Chicago in their place in the 1990 post season at Giants Stadium The Bears were stupefied by the Giants change-up to a 4-3 defense. They were never able to make a counter adjustment and never found the end zone.

Ditka is not in the HOF as a coach, he's in as a player (deservedly so) and the myth of Buddy Ryan being some kind of genius makes me nauseous. He was a one-hit-wonder who caught lightning in a bottle. Even Ditka himself compared Ryan's intelligence to a "half empty beer can."
RE: Why were the '85 Bears one-year-wonders?  
Victor in CT : 3/8/2021 11:11 am : link
In comment 15169467 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
COACHING.

They were a physically talented team of bullies who beat up (and padded stats) against weaker competition. The NFC Central was pitiably weak, with only the Vikings being competitive.

Ask yourself, who did those Bears teams lose to in big spots? In 1985 their lone lass was Miami and Don Shula. As mentioned above, what could have been if the Dolphins hadn't lost the AFC CG to New England and gotten a rematch with Chicago in the Super Bowl?

Who did the Bears lose to on their home field in the post season following their title? Washington and Joe Gibbs in 1986 & 1987, followed by San Francisco and Bill Walsh in 1988.

For good measure, the tandem of Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick put Chicago in their place in the 1990 post season at Giants Stadium The Bears were stupefied by the Giants change-up to a 4-3 defense. They were never able to make a counter adjustment and never found the end zone.

Ditka is not in the HOF as a coach, he's in as a player (deservedly so) and the myth of Buddy Ryan being some kind of genius makes me nauseous. He was a one-hit-wonder who caught lightning in a bottle. Even Ditka himself compared Ryan's intelligence to a "half empty beer can."


well done Larry
RE: RE: RE: The '85 Bears certainly had a great D  
NDMedics : 3/8/2021 11:51 am : link
In comment 15169048 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 15169043 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15169014 Matt M. said:


Quote:


that was intimidating that year. But, I felt we played right with them in that playoff game. They had a shot until Carpenter fumbled in similar fashion to how Rice fumbled on the opening drive of the 86 divisional round against us. That fumble took the wind out of the sails for us. But, we would have been right in the game if he held the ball.



Didn't the Giants also have a muffed punt that somehow screwed them?



Landeta whiffed on a punt in his own end when there was a gust of wind and the Bears returned it for an easy TD. Though I've talked to Byron Hunt in the past who was on the field on that play and he said he didn't remember a wind gust, he thinks Landeta just blew it.


I was sitting in that end zone about 12 rows up, it was brutally cold but there was no wind during that punt. Landetta just plain whiffed it.
RE: Why were the '85 Bears one-year-wonders?  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/8/2021 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15169467 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
COACHING.

They were a physically talented team of bullies who beat up (and padded stats) against weaker competition. The NFC Central was pitiably weak, with only the Vikings being competitive.

Ask yourself, who did those Bears teams lose to in big spots? In 1985 their lone lass was Miami and Don Shula. As mentioned above, what could have been if the Dolphins hadn't lost the AFC CG to New England and gotten a rematch with Chicago in the Super Bowl?

Who did the Bears lose to on their home field in the post season following their title? Washington and Joe Gibbs in 1986 & 1987, followed by San Francisco and Bill Walsh in 1988.

For good measure, the tandem of Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick put Chicago in their place in the 1990 post season at Giants Stadium The Bears were stupefied by the Giants change-up to a 4-3 defense. They were never able to make a counter adjustment and never found the end zone.

Ditka is not in the HOF as a coach, he's in as a player (deservedly so) and the myth of Buddy Ryan being some kind of genius makes me nauseous. He was a one-hit-wonder who caught lightning in a bottle. Even Ditka himself compared Ryan's intelligence to a "half empty beer can."



That's one thing Gilbride alluded to when he talked about the 46 defense actually contributing to their downfall. He also said that the eagles D was insanely talented when Ryan coached there too and they couldn't handle the WC/spread offenses because they were tied to the 46.
And that's the reason the 46 is long gone from the NFL  
Greg from LI : 3/8/2021 12:37 pm : link
It was a gimmick that only worked if you had the kind of talent the Bears and Eagles had. There was nothing particularly creative about it.
RE: Again - look at the schedule the '86 Bears played  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/8/2021 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15169226 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
And then tell me how impressive their point differential was. Their schedule was total shit. One of the worst divisions you'll ever see and a weak OOC. The Giants had three regular season wins more impressive than anything the Bears did - Washington x 2 and SF.

The Giants won at Minnesota while the Bears got smoked in the Metrodome. The Bears were taken to OT at home by an Eagle team that the Giants crushed at home, 35-3.

That point differential you're so impressed by is mostly the product of two games - Cincinnati (44-7) and Tampa (48-14), and Tampa was a HORRENDOUS team.


You seem to be hung up on comparing the 1986 Bears and Giants. That wasn’t my point. I just used the PD to show that the Bears were hardly a one year wonder, not that they were better or worse than the Giants that season.

The Bears won 10+ games in 7 of 8 seasons from 1984 to 1991. They’re not a one year wonder because they won just one Super Bowl. WINNING SUPER BOWLS IN THAT ERA (AND CONFERENCE) WAS REALLY DIFFICULT. The Bears lost 3 playoff games to the eventual champions. Joe Montana lost 3 playoff games to the Giants. The John Robinson Rams had good teams, but got smoked twice in the conference championship game by the 85 Bears and Joe Montana. The Giants had to beat the greatest QB ever twice to win Super Bowls. I haven’t even mentioned Joe Gibbs. The Bears weren’t overrated. The conference was just insanely competitive.
And, again, their win totals were padded by playing in a weak division  
Greg from LI : 3/8/2021 12:43 pm : link
In the mid-late '80s, the Lions, Packers, and especially the Bucs all stunk to high heaven. Even the Vikings, though a decent team, were mostly only decent. The Bears never had to contend with a great team in their division like the Joe Gibbs Redskins.
RE: And, again, their win totals were padded by playing in a weak division  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/8/2021 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15169631 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In the mid-late '80s, the Lions, Packers, and especially the Bucs all stunk to high heaven. Even the Vikings, though a decent team, were mostly only decent. The Bears never had to contend with a great team in their division like the Joe Gibbs Redskins.


In '86, the Giants had the 12-4 Redskins in the division. 3 teams in the Central had 5 wins or less.
What's interesting...  
bw in dc : 3/8/2021 12:46 pm : link
is that on many defensive metrics, the '86 Bears D was better than the '85 team.
For what it’s worth,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/8/2021 1:13 pm : link
Footballoutsiders.com has the Bears as a top 5 team overall each season from 1984 through 1988. They have the Bears as the best overall team in 1985 and 1986. The Giants are 4th overall in 1986 and number 1 in 1990.

FO.com’s DVOA numbers are opponent adjusted.
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