I'm not sure what the issue is with Laf. He is completely invisible most days.
Somebody ran the stats on Twitter: In the 38 NHL seasons for a 2nd overall in his 2nd season, Kakko is 37th. Lafreniere is 26/31 for #1's in their rookie year.
I'm not sure what the issue is with Laf. He is completely invisible most days.
Somebody ran the stats on Twitter: In the 38 NHL seasons for a 2nd overall in his 2nd season, Kakko is 37th. Lafreniere is 26/31 for #1's in their rookie year.
It's really frustrating.
I wouldn't worry about Kakko or Lafreniere.
they'd be a freshman and sophomore in college if they went to NCAA instead of the NHL.
Cole Caufield is probably going go win Hobey Baker (or he should win it) and just signed his ELC and he is nowhere near as talented as either Kakko or Lafreniere, but if they both went to NCAA they'd be skating circles around the competition.
If they'd spent the past two years in the NCAA (Kakko) or at least this year (Lafreniere) instead of the NHL would you feel differently about them?
Probably not. I'm still very high on them, the list of elite players still in juniors is quite long. Malkin was still in the KHL at their ages, IIRC.
I have some concern about the Rangers ability to develop elite talent at an appropriate pace. Laf was a very highly touted #1 overall, it's disappointing he didn't come out firing. MacKinnon was less touted and put up 60 points his rookie year.
Kakko looked dominant in the World Championship preceding the draft. I don't see a lot of flashes from either of them.
It's less about them and their potential, and more about my concern about the Rangers forward development and general frustration we never have a guy coming out hot immediately up-front, lol.
Has played quite well. Sure his offensive game isnt where we wanted it to be, but his defensive game is certainly a revelation! His main problem is similar to what I have said was RJ Barrett's at the beginning of the season (sorry for the basketball injection) and that is being too timid to become a part of the offense. Hegets the puck in certain instances where I start saying, "oh yea....here we go" where he could make one move and be on goal. But then he'll either pass it or pull the puck out. Its very annoying too because not only does he pass up the opportunity to score, but many times it fucks up the flow for the rest of the shift. Kakko still looks fine.
Laf is as Brett said, invisible except for digging the puck out of corners, lol, he does that well!
Probably not. I'm still very high on them, the list of elite players still in juniors is quite long. Malkin was still in the KHL at their ages, IIRC.
I have some concern about the Rangers ability to develop elite talent at an appropriate pace. Laf was a very highly touted #1 overall, it's disappointing he didn't come out firing. MacKinnon was less touted and put up 60 points his rookie year.
Kakko looked dominant in the World Championship preceding the draft. I don't see a lot of flashes from either of them.
It's less about them and their potential, and more about my concern about the Rangers forward development and general frustration we never have a guy coming out hot immediately up-front, lol.
I think those preconceptions are a killer. Playing against boys vs playing against men who are pissed off every day sends out different energies. Its like you said, how many players who werent very talented but successful pros and vice versa? There is a huge difference between playing guys who you are better than but still are boys and playing against men that you are more talented than but are nasty bastards who dont have your future.
You referenced Trots aka Trotz and the Islanders. Poor comparison as the Islanders were a veteran team ready to win. Quinville aka Quenneville, who inherited a largely veteran team that was rudderless. Mike Sullivan took over a veteran team with Crosby and Malkin who have been through the rigors of quite a few Cup runs. These are poor comparisons on so many levels. Again, the Rangers are the youngest team in the league in fact they have teenagers on their roster for the love of God. Who in the hell realistically thinks a teenager is going to walk onto NHL ice and light it up from the first shift? It doesn't just automatically happen because your name is called early in the draft. And discount that fact that European players have an adjustment period when it comes to skating on North American rinks and playing against grown men.
The coach has to balance running veterans out there so as to give the team the best chance to win all the while trying to balance that with providing the kids with some valuable ice time. He is also responsible for protecting the kids which is a near impossible juggling act.
Brett pointing to Nathan McKinnon as an example of a draft pick that excelled. Sure, you can cherry pick all you want but if you're going to do that why don't you tell us how many NHL players can skate like McKinnon? There aren't many, I'll tell you that. And if you can skate like the wind it'll certainly go a long way in putting you in quite a few advantageous positions on the ice.
Just look at the last D pairing and the bottom 2 lines and tell me the Rangers have the kind of depth that can put a team over the top or compete in a 7 game series with the likes of the Caps, Islanders, Bruins and Pens? Let's be serious here. This cake is a little more than half baked.
the focus is too much on points by the fans for the young players.
Look at Laine, for example.
As an 18-year old rookie Laine put up 36 G, 28 A, 64 points.
In WIN that season was admired, in NY, MTL, or BOS he'd be on his way to the Hockey Hall of Fame.
However the stats are sort of hollow. He plays a 125 foot game (at best) and now at 22 with a coach who holds him defensively responsible he can't get on the ice, has been a healthy scratch, and is rumored to be on the trading block again.
Need to find a balance. Players need to understand the game, the defensive responsibilities and be enabled to develop creatively on the offensive side.
I'd look more for Kakko and Lafreniere to be fundamentally sound in their teens, more offense would be great, but to me it will come and in a more open system they'd probably score more, but these years are helping them more for the long run.
Not saying don't be a little disappointed, a player like Tkachuk (either one of them, but use Brady for now but it fits Matthew too) comes in and puts up back to back 45 point seasons rookie and 2nd year (though both played 1 year in the NCAA/juniors) with a gritty and defensively sound game, but that is the exception IMO.
I point to MacKinnon because he was less hyped than Lafraniere and had a fantastic rookie year. I'm not expecting that level of production, but I'm also not expecting this low level of production. My more specific point is that the Rangers have two highly touted picks that they lucked into that are performing among the worst relative to the guys picked at their draft slots at the same point in their careers. It's dismal production relative to those guys. I expected more.
I point to MacKinnon because he was less hyped than Lafraniere and had a fantastic rookie year. I'm not expecting that level of production, but I'm also not expecting this low level of production. My more specific point is that the Rangers have two highly touted picks that they lucked into that are performing among the worst relative to the guys picked at their draft slots at the same point in their careers. It's dismal production relative to those guys. I expected more.
but there's a lot of variables that go into it - linemates is a huge one, are they the person driving play or the benefeciary of it - I know you know what i mean, system, their skill that made them a highly regarded prospect - like for Hughes you knew the transition would take a little - he's 5' 9" (generously) and 150 pounds - that's not an NHL body but he skates like the wind - but there would be an adjustment as he learns to skate like the wind against men who are all good skaters too - for example - I think both Kakko (who looks great to me) and Lafreniere (and most everyone not named McDavid or Matthews) will have an adjustment period.
For me if they score or not while they adjust is not a huge deal. Of course you'd like to see it - especially for their confidence but I only need to watch the Canadiens to see how Kakko and Lafreniere will look in a year or two because i see it with Suzuki and Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi was sent to the AHL in his second year. after playing in the NHL his entire rookie year - he came back to the habs for the bubble and looked like a different player. I don't think it was anything the AHL did other than give him some confidence.
I don't think it was necessarily necessary, but hard to argue with the results. He's not lighting up the score sheet (.5 ppg), but he looks like a legit 1C or 2C and he's 20 years old all season.
Many people would have told you this outcome was unlikely a year ago.
Anyway, I know fans want immediate results or at least flashy play, but patience is probably best.
I seriously doubt either of these guys will be busts or even disappoint.
Kakko looked gassed and slow to me a lot last year. It made sense after playing so much hockey. Kakko looks good to me now, I'm frustrated he isn't scoring more with Panarin (I know he just scored, lol).
And this is a weird year, Lafreniere went nine months or so without playing competitive hockey.
I'm frustrated I don't see more bursts of elite skill as well. I see it from Chytil a lot. I don't see that from Lafreniere. I think coaching is probably a bit to blame. Lafreniere looks to be held back quite a bit. He's playing a really conservative game.
Barkov took 3-4 years to get going. I'm not concerned, just annoyed. I feel like our window is probably a year further away than hoped.
Kakko looked gassed and slow to me a lot last year. It made sense after playing so much hockey. Kakko looks good to me now, I'm frustrated he isn't scoring more with Panarin (I know he just scored, lol).
And this is a weird year, Lafreniere went nine months or so without playing competitive hockey.
I'm frustrated I don't see more bursts of elite skill as well. I see it from Chytil a lot. I don't see that from Lafreniere. I think coaching is probably a bit to blame. Lafreniere looks to be held back quite a bit. He's playing a really conservative game.
Barkov took 3-4 years to get going. I'm not concerned, just annoyed. I feel like our window is probably a year further away than hoped.
the last game i looked at the box score Lafreniere played 4th line minutes.
You know at #1 overall it wouldn't happen, but he's probably better off in the juniors or NCAA.
That's why I blame quite a bit of this on coaching. The Rangers home-grown forwards always take a bit to get going. A game like the other day in WAS should have resulted in Laf being set lose with extra minutes.
He's a much better skater than he has shown thus far in the NHL. He's not the relentless forechecker I saw in the WJC's, for example.
Somebody ran the stats on Twitter: In the 38 NHL seasons for a 2nd overall in his 2nd season, Kakko is 37th. Lafreniere is 26/31 for #1's in their rookie year.
It's really frustrating.
Somebody ran the stats on Twitter: In the 38 NHL seasons for a 2nd overall in his 2nd season, Kakko is 37th. Lafreniere is 26/31 for #1's in their rookie year.
It's really frustrating.
I wouldn't worry about Kakko or Lafreniere.
they'd be a freshman and sophomore in college if they went to NCAA instead of the NHL.
Cole Caufield is probably going go win Hobey Baker (or he should win it) and just signed his ELC and he is nowhere near as talented as either Kakko or Lafreniere, but if they both went to NCAA they'd be skating circles around the competition.
If they'd spent the past two years in the NCAA (Kakko) or at least this year (Lafreniere) instead of the NHL would you feel differently about them?
I have some concern about the Rangers ability to develop elite talent at an appropriate pace. Laf was a very highly touted #1 overall, it's disappointing he didn't come out firing. MacKinnon was less touted and put up 60 points his rookie year.
Kakko looked dominant in the World Championship preceding the draft. I don't see a lot of flashes from either of them.
It's less about them and their potential, and more about my concern about the Rangers forward development and general frustration we never have a guy coming out hot immediately up-front, lol.
Laf is as Brett said, invisible except for digging the puck out of corners, lol, he does that well!
I have some concern about the Rangers ability to develop elite talent at an appropriate pace. Laf was a very highly touted #1 overall, it's disappointing he didn't come out firing. MacKinnon was less touted and put up 60 points his rookie year.
Kakko looked dominant in the World Championship preceding the draft. I don't see a lot of flashes from either of them.
It's less about them and their potential, and more about my concern about the Rangers forward development and general frustration we never have a guy coming out hot immediately up-front, lol.
I think those preconceptions are a killer. Playing against boys vs playing against men who are pissed off every day sends out different energies. Its like you said, how many players who werent very talented but successful pros and vice versa? There is a huge difference between playing guys who you are better than but still are boys and playing against men that you are more talented than but are nasty bastards who dont have your future.
I’m more concerned about Gorton’s whiffs on Lias and possibly Kratsov. Also about some of the contracts he dished out and his buyout decisions
And hiring Quinn. Guy is not an NHL Caliber coach
Considering what he did in StL and Col, Id say he has done pretty alright
The coach has to balance running veterans out there so as to give the team the best chance to win all the while trying to balance that with providing the kids with some valuable ice time. He is also responsible for protecting the kids which is a near impossible juggling act.
Brett pointing to Nathan McKinnon as an example of a draft pick that excelled. Sure, you can cherry pick all you want but if you're going to do that why don't you tell us how many NHL players can skate like McKinnon? There aren't many, I'll tell you that. And if you can skate like the wind it'll certainly go a long way in putting you in quite a few advantageous positions on the ice.
Just look at the last D pairing and the bottom 2 lines and tell me the Rangers have the kind of depth that can put a team over the top or compete in a 7 game series with the likes of the Caps, Islanders, Bruins and Pens? Let's be serious here. This cake is a little more than half baked.
Look at Laine, for example.
As an 18-year old rookie Laine put up 36 G, 28 A, 64 points.
In WIN that season was admired, in NY, MTL, or BOS he'd be on his way to the Hockey Hall of Fame.
However the stats are sort of hollow. He plays a 125 foot game (at best) and now at 22 with a coach who holds him defensively responsible he can't get on the ice, has been a healthy scratch, and is rumored to be on the trading block again.
Need to find a balance. Players need to understand the game, the defensive responsibilities and be enabled to develop creatively on the offensive side.
I'd look more for Kakko and Lafreniere to be fundamentally sound in their teens, more offense would be great, but to me it will come and in a more open system they'd probably score more, but these years are helping them more for the long run.
Not saying don't be a little disappointed, a player like Tkachuk (either one of them, but use Brady for now but it fits Matthew too) comes in and puts up back to back 45 point seasons rookie and 2nd year (though both played 1 year in the NCAA/juniors) with a gritty and defensively sound game, but that is the exception IMO.
but there's a lot of variables that go into it - linemates is a huge one, are they the person driving play or the benefeciary of it - I know you know what i mean, system, their skill that made them a highly regarded prospect - like for Hughes you knew the transition would take a little - he's 5' 9" (generously) and 150 pounds - that's not an NHL body but he skates like the wind - but there would be an adjustment as he learns to skate like the wind against men who are all good skaters too - for example - I think both Kakko (who looks great to me) and Lafreniere (and most everyone not named McDavid or Matthews) will have an adjustment period.
For me if they score or not while they adjust is not a huge deal. Of course you'd like to see it - especially for their confidence but I only need to watch the Canadiens to see how Kakko and Lafreniere will look in a year or two because i see it with Suzuki and Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi was sent to the AHL in his second year. after playing in the NHL his entire rookie year - he came back to the habs for the bubble and looked like a different player. I don't think it was anything the AHL did other than give him some confidence.
I don't think it was necessarily necessary, but hard to argue with the results. He's not lighting up the score sheet (.5 ppg), but he looks like a legit 1C or 2C and he's 20 years old all season.
Many people would have told you this outcome was unlikely a year ago.
Anyway, I know fans want immediate results or at least flashy play, but patience is probably best.
I seriously doubt either of these guys will be busts or even disappoint.
Kakko looked gassed and slow to me a lot last year. It made sense after playing so much hockey. Kakko looks good to me now, I'm frustrated he isn't scoring more with Panarin (I know he just scored, lol).
And this is a weird year, Lafreniere went nine months or so without playing competitive hockey.
I'm frustrated I don't see more bursts of elite skill as well. I see it from Chytil a lot. I don't see that from Lafreniere. I think coaching is probably a bit to blame. Lafreniere looks to be held back quite a bit. He's playing a really conservative game.
Barkov took 3-4 years to get going. I'm not concerned, just annoyed. I feel like our window is probably a year further away than hoped.
Kakko looked gassed and slow to me a lot last year. It made sense after playing so much hockey. Kakko looks good to me now, I'm frustrated he isn't scoring more with Panarin (I know he just scored, lol).
And this is a weird year, Lafreniere went nine months or so without playing competitive hockey.
I'm frustrated I don't see more bursts of elite skill as well. I see it from Chytil a lot. I don't see that from Lafreniere. I think coaching is probably a bit to blame. Lafreniere looks to be held back quite a bit. He's playing a really conservative game.
Barkov took 3-4 years to get going. I'm not concerned, just annoyed. I feel like our window is probably a year further away than hoped.
the last game i looked at the box score Lafreniere played 4th line minutes.
You know at #1 overall it wouldn't happen, but he's probably better off in the juniors or NCAA.
He's a much better skater than he has shown thus far in the NHL. He's not the relentless forechecker I saw in the WJC's, for example.