"In response to an article that implied the Mets and Lindor’s camp were looking for avenues to bridge a gap in negotiations, Cohen replied: “I don’t see a lot of brainstorming going on over here.”
Metsmerized
@Metsmerized
·
4m
Per @jackramseymmo
, There is still an expectation that Francisco Lindor will sign by Opening Day, but a source says that the deal will not be for 12 years and $385 million
Metsmerized
@Metsmerized
·
4m
Per @jackramseymmo
, There is still an expectation that Francisco Lindor will sign by Opening Day, but a source says that the deal will not be for 12 years and $385 million
100% wasn't trying to knock him at all. I just meant he's not (or hasn't been) one to break any news unlike say, Michael Mayer who has in fact broken some stories despite "only" being a blogger.
Not going to argue the value of Francisco Lindor but this new narrative "he obviously doesn't want to be here" is absurd and based on fans prepping to be butthurt. He believes he's worth more than 325 million (rightly or wrongly). That's it
don't need a checkmark to be an informed sports "writer" on twitter. Guys like Michael Mayer and Resnick have repeatedly broken news. I have no idea who they have as sources but they do. Even Joe D, he had the Callaway story from a legitimate writer before it even broke. I just tend to doubt "who again?" on MAJOR stories that other big-time team-connected sources don't have. I want to believe Cohen is bull-shitting when he essentially claims they aren't looking for ways to get this done.
don't need a checkmark to be an informed sports "writer" on twitter. Guys like Michael Mayer and Resnick have repeatedly broken news. I have no idea who they have as sources but they do. Even Joe D, he had the Callaway story from a legitimate writer before it even broke. I just tend to doubt "who again?" on MAJOR stories that other big-time team-connected sources don't have. I want to believe Cohen is bull-shitting when he essentially claims they aren't looking for ways to get this done.
As much as I blame both sides in these cases - Do we think everyone is (in reality) dug in or is it posture.
Does 10/325 final offer - really mean FINAL (Cohen tweeting - he hopes Lindor signs) and does Francisco saying Will not negotiate after 4/1 REALLY mean talks are dead dead?
I hope we find out soon and that there is some movement since I would like both sides happy with the end result. 10/340 or some such... or last two years team option at 32m or whatever
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
i'd bet a lot of money a deal gets done in the next 24 hours
that's just how these things go when it makes too much sense to both sides. JDG and LW are 2 recent examples where some of the most plugged in writers on both sides were saying "no momentum" hours before official announcements.
Both sides know the deadline, both sides want a deal, a deal will get done.
If it doesn't one side screwed up big time, and in this case I don't think it would be the NYM (assuming the $325m offer is true).
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
He would have been absolutely foolish not to. In Tatis' situation his deal is quite player friendly. They could have simply held him on a team-friendly rookie deal.
Lindor is a much more accomplished player and has been consistently excellent year in and year out. If Tatis is worth that, what agent wouldn't argue that a four-time all star in his early prime, who hit the cover off the ball in the ALCS and the World Series, isn't worth significantly more? His agent is doing what he should.
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Yeah Eric... not exactly a fair take. Tatis was NOWHERE near FA. The Padres did him an incredible "solid" in giving him the deal that they did. He didn't take 24 million as an unselfish move, his agent explained to him the most money a 1st year arbitration-eligible player has ever made was 11.9 million... and he was 2 years away from even achieving THAT possibility.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
10s
deGrom, Stroman, Peterson, Walker and deGrom is the rotation order, with TBA after that, possibly an opener.
The strategy of an opener works in AL, but I fail to see it in NL because you then limit how long your first reliever can go with the P spot due up unless you are intending for him to bat (which defeats one of the uses of an opener - that no pitcher is around long enough to bat allowing you to have a quasi-DH spot)
"Not only is he a superstar on the field, but he pays attention, he works hard, he cares about his teammates and not only doe he have the quantifiable numbers of a superstar, he has the X-factor," Alonso said on Lindor. "What he brings to a clubhouse is tremendous and can't be measured, along with his superstar talent. ... He's worth every penny of what he decides ... so yeah, pay him $400 million."
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Yeah Eric... not exactly a fair take. Tatis was NOWHERE near FA. The Padres did him an incredible "solid" in giving him the deal that they did. He didn't take 24 million as an unselfish move, his agent explained to him the most money a 1st year arbitration-eligible player has ever made was 11.9 million... and he was 2 years away from even achieving THAT possibility.
Exactly my point - its apples to oranges to compare 2 totally different deals. Tatis' deal was a complete unicorn. My point re AAV was that you can deceptively cite it just as easily as deceptively looking at just the grand total. Tatis' deal should have very little to do with Lindor's deal because Lindor is not 22 years old and he's also not 4+ years from FA.
Separate from that the whole public debate on this negotiation is silly and mostly a waste of time. Everyone knows what the appropriate deal is based on the comps and we all know the NYM made that offer. I'd be incredibly surprised if Lindor passes on it and I think it would be exceedingly risky of him to do so. So for those reasons I'd be very surprised if he does in fact pass on it, but if he does it's his right. It's just as possible his doing so would do the Mets a favor as otherwise.
Every debate on any issue here could be boiled down
To a waste of time. I'm not sure where you're going with that. It's a discussion board. We're all here because we're choosing to kill time talking about it.
And I dont think you'd find a player agent anywhere who wouldn't use a recently signed contract at the same position as the framework for another deal. We see it all the time in the NFL. We can say tatis is a different scenario, but its not entirely. SD got to that number somehow, under no leverage stress since Tatis was years from free agency.
"punishing" lindor 's value for being 4 years younger is easily countered by the just the facts that he's been top of the league great, consistently. There are no questions about his ability, no concerns of regression. He's proven in the regular season and the playoffs. Youth is certainly not the leading metric for contract valuation. There's more risk in the younger player because there's more unknown.
TTH I wasn't talking about the debate here specifically
but overall by the fanbase and writers everywhere (twitter, interviews, etc). Broadly speaking some topics are absorbed and discussed more smartly than others, and this one has been on the wrong end of the spectrum. I saw a comment (not here) that related the cost of Cohen's SEC fine to why he'd be "cheap" if he didn't get Lindor signed. Of course discussion is the point of any message board but this topic seems so overwrought ("same old mets!") when the NYM to this point have done exactly the right things and shown no reason to believe they won't do what it takes to keep Lindor now or in the future should he continue to hold out (and should they want him).
As far as Tatis, it was a first of it's kind deal and the 2 situations were very different from each other, period. The comparable deals from players recently at UFA or within 1 year of approaching it are those that as in the article below have been correctly utilized as comparisons ad nauseam since January - Betts, Harper, Arenado, Machado. Britton's projection in this article below from almost 3 months ago was 11 years 330m. Which turns out to be right in line with where the Mets are right now. Also relatively predictable since January was that this would come down to the deadline and that there would be all sorts of rumors until the moment something actually happens.
at Lindor’s camp. $325M is already higher price than their analytics has for his projected production and they don’t want to go higher or meet in the middle.
It doesn’t sound good at the moment, but part of me thinks this is a lot of noise and we’re going to see an agreement for 10yrs/$335M tomorrow.
just read that. Lindor should cave, it would be to his own benefit. I'm not sure he'll get a better deal. Cohen is not a dumb business man, he knew he had the best offer when he first bought the Mets, but backed out when Jeffy made an unreasonable demand. It's a similar situation. The Wilpons lost about $250 million by backing out of the sale the first go-around. Hard to believe lindor will get anything better.
Cohen is insanely wealthy
It's not "my" money
etc...
If what's above is accurate, that's more than a fair offer. I am fine letting Lindor play for his contract this year. As a Met fan I pray neither of these happens, but if he gets hurt or has even a mediocre year, he has absolutely f'd himself.
just read that. Lindor should cave, it would be to his own benefit. I'm not sure he'll get a better deal. Cohen is not a dumb business man, he knew he had the best offer when he first bought the Mets, but backed out when Jeffy made an unreasonable demand. It's a similar situation. The Wilpons lost about $250 million by backing out of the sale the first go-around. Hard to believe lindor will get anything better.
If there’s one thing we know about Cohen, he’s not going to go through with a deal if he thinks it’s bad, even if he emotionally wants something. He was willing to walk away from the Mets when the Wilpons were screwing around.
about not saying when a shit load of money is "enough" money for someone else.
But when you reject a non-deferred $325M offer while making $21M the current year not even being counted in the $325M (which would make your career earnings over $50M) because you want $60M more. You deserve to rot in hell.
and you really don't want to be where you currently are, the talk about culture is bullshit the talk about it not being just about money is bullshit, it's only about money.
doesn't sign, F him. Move on to the next guy. More than fair contract offer.
It seems that this is where we are - and it's the Lindor camp that has a take it or leave it offer on the table where Cohen has moved twice and thought (at dinner) they had a deal.
Far as I'm concerned let him play out his contract - Time to buckle up the horses and GET TO IT starting tomorrow.
Extension or not I'm psyched for tomorrow and how the Mets will handle this season!
Cohen is smarter than any agent when it comes to understanding time value of money (and the fans, press who keep bringing up Bonilla like idiots every year)... All the players seem to want is bragging rights on biggest $$ contract..
At this point maybe he just goes to Lindor with a higher value with significantly deferrals, but at a lower NPV than the current dea and Lindor can just regret it in 15 years.. haha
Makes me sad it won't be a full stadium for the home opener, would be nice for the faithful to let him know how they feel..especially if he has a rough debut..
Technically the deal is 347 million over 11 years with no deferrals In Mets money since its tacked on starting next year.
I still stand that he knew he would sign the entire time and they are just making the Mets sweat until the last second to get as much as they can.
If he doesn't sign that deal before the game tomorrow then so be it, but he would be a complete fool IMO.
I still say this is posturing.
Well - I hope you're right - but it seems more likely that either Lindor is getting some bad advice or he is not comfortable committing to the the Mets for 10 years.
Maybe it is both sides - but it sure doesn't seem that way at this point.
One has to wonder if he just doesn't want to play here, and his mind is made up on that.
I say that because I don't see any coherent reason to reject that deal. Even if he had an MVP season I'm not sure he'd get more than that on the open market, especially with other SS options in free agency next winter.
He is turning down a decade+ commitment of almost $350M. I can't see any reasonable explanation for that.
if he has a career year, great for mets. And guess what? there still may not be a better offer elsewhere.
if he has a middling season...whoops.
Cohen has proven he is willing to spend money. And even better is in the process of proving he's not just going to roll over to bid against himself.
That's really important...he can't let players view him as a pushover just because he is the richest owner...
I've always said, I didn't want the Mets to throw money around just for the sake, I just want them to be willing to spend. He is definitely willing to spend..
I'd rather lose Lindor than Conforto or Thor anyway.. #1 I have 0 emotional connection with Lindor #2 there will likely be other superstar SSs on the market..
I think something like 7yrs/$165M gets it done.
Quote:
Martino says Boras has floated 200 million for Conforto.
I think something like 7yrs/$165M gets it done.
I'd be stunned. Springer was 3 years older and coming off "COVID 2020". Conforto is going to get close to 200. The OF market is in a word.. laughable.
"In response to an article that implied the Mets and Lindor’s camp were looking for avenues to bridge a gap in negotiations, Cohen replied: “I don’t see a lot of brainstorming going on over here.”
He's intentionally trolling his own fanbase at this point. Great.
Jack Ramsey
@jackramseymmo
·
18m
Source to me just now: “I think (Lindor) signs”
He's intentionally trolling his own fanbase at this point. Great.
Telling the fans they aren't looking for ways to appease Lindor is one strange thing to opt to do.
Jack Ramsey
@jackramseymmo
·
18m
Source to me just now: “I think (Lindor) signs”
He's a nice guy but he's "just" a blogger for MMO. No knock on him but he's not a reporter.
Metsmerized
@Metsmerized
·
4m
Per @jackramseymmo
, There is still an expectation that Francisco Lindor will sign by Opening Day, but a source says that the deal will not be for 12 years and $385 million
Metsmerized
@Metsmerized
·
4m
Per @jackramseymmo
, There is still an expectation that Francisco Lindor will sign by Opening Day, but a source says that the deal will not be for 12 years and $385 million
100% wasn't trying to knock him at all. I just meant he's not (or hasn't been) one to break any news unlike say, Michael Mayer who has in fact broken some stories despite "only" being a blogger.
Sometimes people like me see tweets on twitter and share them.
Your background helped people put it in context.
IOW it's not like this is coming from Rosenthal or baseball's version of Schefter.
10 for 325 is 32.5 per season
12 for 385 is 32 per season
So while people are going nuts over "385!" it's not exactly a crazy upper end to ask for. I'd offer 11 for 357.5 and completely split the difference.
As much as I blame both sides in these cases - Do we think everyone is (in reality) dug in or is it posture.
Does 10/325 final offer - really mean FINAL (Cohen tweeting - he hopes Lindor signs) and does Francisco saying Will not negotiate after 4/1 REALLY mean talks are dead dead?
I hope we find out soon and that there is some movement since I would like both sides happy with the end result. 10/340 or some such... or last two years team option at 32m or whatever
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
Both sides know the deadline, both sides want a deal, a deal will get done.
If it doesn't one side screwed up big time, and in this case I don't think it would be the NYM (assuming the $325m offer is true).
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Quote:
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
He would have been absolutely foolish not to. In Tatis' situation his deal is quite player friendly. They could have simply held him on a team-friendly rookie deal.
Lindor is a much more accomplished player and has been consistently excellent year in and year out. If Tatis is worth that, what agent wouldn't argue that a four-time all star in his early prime, who hit the cover off the ball in the ALCS and the World Series, isn't worth significantly more? His agent is doing what he should.
Brujan, Gorman, Abrams, Dominguez, Celestin, Green, Gore, Lacy, Meyer, Mize
Quote:
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Yeah Eric... not exactly a fair take. Tatis was NOWHERE near FA. The Padres did him an incredible "solid" in giving him the deal that they did. He didn't take 24 million as an unselfish move, his agent explained to him the most money a 1st year arbitration-eligible player has ever made was 11.9 million... and he was 2 years away from even achieving THAT possibility.
@NYPost_Mets
·
10s
deGrom, Stroman, Peterson, Walker and deGrom is the rotation order, with TBA after that, possibly an opener.
Stupid of Lindor to turn down this offer (if a deal doesn't ultimately get done). $30 mil for a 39 year old Lindor? No thanks.
Stupid of Lindor to turn down this offer (if a deal doesn't ultimately get done). $30 mil for a 39 year old Lindor? No thanks.
Yup - I dont care who or how they save face at this point - just get'r done and let's Play Ball
@NYPost_Mets
·
10s
deGrom, Stroman, Peterson, Walker and deGrom is the rotation order, with TBA after that, possibly an opener.
The strategy of an opener works in AL, but I fail to see it in NL because you then limit how long your first reliever can go with the P spot due up unless you are intending for him to bat (which defeats one of the uses of an opener - that no pitcher is around long enough to bat allowing you to have a quasi-DH spot)
Quote:
In comment 15203051 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Yeah Eric... not exactly a fair take. Tatis was NOWHERE near FA. The Padres did him an incredible "solid" in giving him the deal that they did. He didn't take 24 million as an unselfish move, his agent explained to him the most money a 1st year arbitration-eligible player has ever made was 11.9 million... and he was 2 years away from even achieving THAT possibility.
Exactly my point - its apples to oranges to compare 2 totally different deals. Tatis' deal was a complete unicorn. My point re AAV was that you can deceptively cite it just as easily as deceptively looking at just the grand total. Tatis' deal should have very little to do with Lindor's deal because Lindor is not 22 years old and he's also not 4+ years from FA.
Separate from that the whole public debate on this negotiation is silly and mostly a waste of time. Everyone knows what the appropriate deal is based on the comps and we all know the NYM made that offer. I'd be incredibly surprised if Lindor passes on it and I think it would be exceedingly risky of him to do so. So for those reasons I'd be very surprised if he does in fact pass on it, but if he does it's his right. It's just as possible his doing so would do the Mets a favor as otherwise.
And I dont think you'd find a player agent anywhere who wouldn't use a recently signed contract at the same position as the framework for another deal. We see it all the time in the NFL. We can say tatis is a different scenario, but its not entirely. SD got to that number somehow, under no leverage stress since Tatis was years from free agency.
"punishing" lindor 's value for being 4 years younger is easily countered by the just the facts that he's been top of the league great, consistently. There are no questions about his ability, no concerns of regression. He's proven in the regular season and the playoffs. Youth is certainly not the leading metric for contract valuation. There's more risk in the younger player because there's more unknown.
As far as Tatis, it was a first of it's kind deal and the 2 situations were very different from each other, period. The comparable deals from players recently at UFA or within 1 year of approaching it are those that as in the article below have been correctly utilized as comparisons ad nauseam since January - Betts, Harper, Arenado, Machado. Britton's projection in this article below from almost 3 months ago was 11 years 330m. Which turns out to be right in line with where the Mets are right now. Also relatively predictable since January was that this would come down to the deadline and that there would be all sorts of rumors until the moment something actually happens.
Lindor may be willing to roll the dice but it seems like a lot more risk on his end, especially with the CBA looming. One way or another there will be a press conference with a highly paid SS and Steve Cohen over the next 10 months.
Francisco Lindor is open to an extension with the Mets. What might it cost? - ( New Window )
Would be a shame to lose him if all he wants is something like 8/200
It doesn’t sound good at the moment, but part of me thinks this is a lot of noise and we’re going to see an agreement for 10yrs/$335M tomorrow.
@MBrownstein89
·
12m
Some interesting details on the Mets' original contract & follow-up one to Lindor. #Mets #LGM
It's not "my" money
etc...
If what's above is accurate, that's more than a fair offer. I am fine letting Lindor play for his contract this year. As a Met fan I pray neither of these happens, but if he gets hurt or has even a mediocre year, he has absolutely f'd himself.
If there’s one thing we know about Cohen, he’s not going to go through with a deal if he thinks it’s bad, even if he emotionally wants something. He was willing to walk away from the Mets when the Wilpons were screwing around.
But when you reject a non-deferred $325M offer while making $21M the current year not even being counted in the $325M (which would make your career earnings over $50M) because you want $60M more. You deserve to rot in hell.
and you really don't want to be where you currently are, the talk about culture is bullshit the talk about it not being just about money is bullshit, it's only about money.
It seems that this is where we are - and it's the Lindor camp that has a take it or leave it offer on the table where Cohen has moved twice and thought (at dinner) they had a deal.
Far as I'm concerned let him play out his contract - Time to buckle up the horses and GET TO IT starting tomorrow.
Extension or not I'm psyched for tomorrow and how the Mets will handle this season!
LFGM!
At this point maybe he just goes to Lindor with a higher value with significantly deferrals, but at a lower NPV than the current dea and Lindor can just regret it in 15 years.. haha
Makes me sad it won't be a full stadium for the home opener, would be nice for the faithful to let him know how they feel..especially if he has a rough debut..
I still stand that he knew he would sign the entire time and they are just making the Mets sweat until the last second to get as much as they can.
If he doesnt sign that deal before the game tomorrow then so be it, but he would be a complete fool IMO.
I still say this is posturing.
I still stand that he knew he would sign the entire time and they are just making the Mets sweat until the last second to get as much as they can.
If he doesn't sign that deal before the game tomorrow then so be it, but he would be a complete fool IMO.
I still say this is posturing.
Well - I hope you're right - but it seems more likely that either Lindor is getting some bad advice or he is not comfortable committing to the the Mets for 10 years.
Maybe it is both sides - but it sure doesn't seem that way at this point.
I say that because I don't see any coherent reason to reject that deal. Even if he had an MVP season I'm not sure he'd get more than that on the open market, especially with other SS options in free agency next winter.
He is turning down a decade+ commitment of almost $350M. I can't see any reasonable explanation for that.
That's when my love come tumbling down
I'm gonna wait 'til the midnight hour
When there's no one else around…
Midnight hour coming and is going.
if he has a middling season...whoops.
Cohen has proven he is willing to spend money. And even better is in the process of proving he's not just going to roll over to bid against himself.
if he has a middling season...whoops.
Cohen has proven he is willing to spend money. And even better is in the process of proving he's not just going to roll over to bid against himself.
That's really important...he can't let players view him as a pushover just because he is the richest owner...
I've always said, I didn't want the Mets to throw money around just for the sake, I just want them to be willing to spend. He is definitely willing to spend..
I'd rather lose Lindor than Conforto or Thor anyway.. #1 I have 0 emotional connection with Lindor #2 there will likely be other superstar SSs on the market..
Well my last post didn't age well...