And asked people what the Mets should extend Lindor for, you knew an extension would be coming soon. Good for him and good for the team for removing a potential distraction
Ive said it all along, it will be announced Tuesday/Wednesday so Lindor can have his own media day/be the headline, etc with no games going.
From your mouth to Gods ear - and my credit card waiting to get an OFFICIAL Lindor in blue with the 41 patch on it as soon as its announced. (not yet available far as I can tell)
While no deal was struck at the Palm Beach dinner Saturday night, the Mets and Lindor clarified their positions and there’s still some hope something could get done in the 3 days before Opening Day
“Some hope” isn’t as optimistic as I would have hoped..
Help me understand the Lux Tax loophole where the Deal gets done this week, but isn't signed / announced until after the Season actually starts.
Explain it like I'm a 5 year old...heh-heh.
Long story short if his extension is signed for the 2022 and beyond seasons then his 30-35 (whatever it might be) lux tax number will be that number for the entirety of his contract. Backloading contracts etc has no impact on the luxury tax. If Lindor’s new deal is tacked onto his 2021 and begins in 2022 then his 2021 cost is 22 and his 2022 and beyond cost is his 30+ number
Help me understand the Lux Tax loophole where the Deal gets done this week, but isn't signed / announced until after the Season actually starts.
Explain it like I'm a 5 year old...heh-heh.
Long story short if his extension is signed for the 2022 and beyond seasons then his 30-35 (whatever it might be) lux tax number will be that number for the entirety of his contract. Backloading contracts etc has no impact on the luxury tax. If Lindor’s new deal is tacked onto his 2021 and begins in 2022 then his 2021 cost is 22 and his 2022 and beyond cost is his 30+ number
OK. I wonder if Lindor is willing to play this year for 22 Mill ? Next year's FA Shortstop crop is going to set new salary benchmarks.
RE: I have been fine with no Realmuto, Springer and Bauer
Feel the same way. Also heard MLB is going to try to clamp down on pitchers and foreign substances on balls. Would be interesting if Bauer gets busted and has a "down" year. It'll be cool (and I wouldn't doubt) if Walker has a comparable year; for a fraction of the $.
RE: RE: I have been fine with no Realmuto, Springer and Bauer
Feel the same way. Also heard MLB is going to try to clamp down on pitchers and foreign substances on balls. Would be interesting if Bauer gets busted and has a "down" year. It'll be cool (and I wouldn't doubt) if Walker has a comparable year; for a fraction of the $.
I watched a little of Bauer's game the other night....he is a mouthy bastid out on the mound. Shouting and waving his arms, and gesturing wildly at batters.
Steven Cohen
@StevenACohen2
·
42s
Replying to
@nybaseballpod
and
@TheAmazinCiti
Well , we have a deadline Mar 31 ,today is the 29th. It either will or won’t in the next two days.
SNY
@SNYtv
·
8m
The Mets have offered more than $300 million in extension talks with Francisco Lindor, but the two sides are not on the verge of a deal
SNY
@SNYtv
·
8m
The Mets have offered more than $300 million in extension talks with Francisco Lindor, but the two sides are not on the verge of a deal
Yah, I read that. Sounds pretty grim on getting a deal done. Was hoping I could wait until at least September to say "wait til next year" LOL
Might just be an issue with structure vs total value
news, I know I've advocated trading him, and I still would in the right trade, but outside of David Wright, Pete Alonso might be the best human being to ever wear a Mets uniform.
Quote:
joon
@joonlee
Mets first baseman Pete Alonso is joining the sports - NFT craze by auctioning off his own NFT, with proceeds supporting minor leaguers affected by the pandemic
“To be able to raise funds and help out guys that need it ... I'm very thankful."
and Dom both seem like really, really good people. Lindor recently donated 1 million towards a new building at his former school. They overall seem to have a very strong group of people on the roster. I'm sure they have their share of dickheads (not that I care) but it seems on the surface to be a very strong overall group of humans.
for each of of Lindor, Conforto and Noah or at least 2/3. Seems like Lindor is likely to happen but any buzz on the other two?
Per Heyman "no traction" with Conforto and Syndergaard they only discussed if he's open to negotiating not actual talks.
Syndergaard is super tough to expect anything before he proves himself or Mets see what they have. Mets of course would love to get him for a discount but he's not going to give up the chance at a huge payday that would come if he comes back strong this year...
Conforto worries me. I know the Mets don't really have a choice after they made the Lindor deal, but if you're Conforto you see all the attention and the $325M deal being offered to the shiny new toy, when Conforto is the one who has busted his butt through thick and thin..
Hopefully they give him his 8-10 year deal at $27-28M per and he's happy to lock it down, but I wouldn't expect a hometown discount at this point...
Mets offer is 10 year 325 million - Not sure why that number doesn't get it done but it should land on Lindor not Cohen if true and he wont sign.
If that's the number my guess is maybe it's now about opt outs, deferred money, and those details, I'd be surprised if Lindor was holding out for more $$$.
Mets offer is 10 year 325 million - Not sure why that number doesn't get it done but it should land on Lindor not Cohen if true and he wont sign.
If that's the number my guess is maybe it's now about opt outs, deferred money, and those details, I'd be surprised if Lindor was holding out for more $$$.
Unless the leak is coming from the Cohen camp and he's trying to save face knowing there wont be a deal
if it's not, it's easy for either side to publicly refute.
if it's not and Cohen was just leaking it, wouldn't it look worse for him, not better?
Since it would be the 5th largest contract in MLB history - Lindor would look a little like the villain if he doesn't sign it. I get the devils in the details but c'mon.
And I would probably change my jersey choice to Black official with the 41 patch
Well, there ARE clues lol
But I do know for 100% fact who leaked the “over $300mm” number last week...
There is absolutely no reason to sweat this. None whatsoever.
10 years for 325 million is a outstanding offer.
I am in the side of letting him play the year out and seeing what is out there in free Agency.
Is any willing to pony up 12 years really?
Not sure what he could do during the season to make me want to pay more? Plus we want to keep conforto/Syndergaard. Other teams would have to bud that high plus give up draft compensation. Plus there are alternatives at the position. His value is never going to be higher than now. And if he has an MVP season, god bless him, you can throw a little more money at him.
Tough spot..makes you wish they got Conforto extended before the Lindor trade.
Honestly I'd prefer they lock up Conforto and Thor, give Lindor the 1 year audition on the big stage... then go next offseason and lock up Lindor or if that falls through then there are a few other superstar shortstops on the market as well...
For the life of me I will never understand baseball fans who are pro billionaire owner over the player? Who cares what the player gets a little more money? There is no salary cap and this owner has pieces of art he’s paid more for.
But sure be happy that Sandy didn’t “overpay” while the players does well on another team.
If you're not going to pay Lindor, who would you pay?
He doesn't have anything to prove to anyone. This is on the Mets. You traded for him, you bite the bullet. Getting sticker shock now makes you look like complete clowns.
and when you have to extend players of the caliber of Lindor, conforto and Thor all around the same time then it does matter what you pay the guys. Fans also dont want to be told the team cant sign someone in 2031 because they are paying a 39 year old lindor 35 million (maybe this is a holdover from the wilpon era, but still). So i dont think its that fans are pro cohen, they just dont want to overpay and it hurt in other areas. What if at 10/300 for Lindor they will happily then go and sign thor to a 5/140 (just making this up), but at 10/375 they are only able to offer thor 4/90 because they need money for conforto. I mean that is not completely unrealistic.
Now in this case its more about the years for Lindor so that makes it a bit less of an issue now since the AAV is actually a bit lower. No team is going to have an infinite salary no matter how many pieces of art work the owner has, so it does matter that the team gets a solid deal on a player. I dont want Cohen to "win" the deal, i want the Mets to get a fair deal for both them and Lindor.
both sides are just negotiating through the media in the final couple days before the season. They are in the same ballpark on AAV, i highly doubt either side walks away over a 2 years and 60 mill difference. If your Lindor you are making a MASSIVE bet on yourself. Im sure they will land with either something like 11 or 12 years at 350.
For the life of me I will never understand baseball fans who are pro billionaire owner over the player? Who cares what the player gets a little more money? There is no salary cap and this owner has pieces of art he’s paid more for.
But sure be happy that Sandy didn’t “overpay” while the players does well on another team.
it's not picking owners over players, but even the owners with the deepest pockets a) set a budget and b) have the luxury tax which is an additive tax and continues to get worse the longer you exceed it
knowing this fact, most fans just want good players signed and don't really care if player x gets eleventy billion dollars as long as player y can still be signed.
if you're suggesting fans shouldn't care about the luxury tax and should hold owners feet to the fire to exceed it regularly, well that's just not realistic. Billionaire, millionaire, whatever, almost no one owns a sports team to lose money even if it's not their primary source of income.
I think it's got to be public negotiating, but the only reason a player of that stature was available to you is because his last teams'offer topped out at 200m. So you're trading for the guy on the understanding that he wants a truckload of money. They weren't going in blind to the nature of the beast they were hunting.
And trading for him means you don't have much leverage here to play with. You're a new ownership group. Your fans are hypersensitive to money issues, specifically not spending money. There would be no situation where letting him walk and taking the compensatory picks makes doesn't bring out the pitchforks and torches and make you appear to be deaf-eared to the team and fanbase you inherited.
I get your points and to be clear I was directing it at mostly at fans reactions elsewhere and people like Evan Roberts saying Lindor is risking alienating the fan base.
But I’m sorry the only effect paying Lindor another 5 mill a year is on Cohens wallet. You should always want to get a good deal but you also want a good team with good players. And while I’m excited about Cohen and thrilled the Wilpons are gone, his only big move this offseason was the Lindor trade. They passed or lost on every big free agent and haven’t locked up Noah or Conforto.
Lastly, deGrom might be on the best contract in the sport. Maybe use those savings to beef up the team around him?
I get your points and to be clear I was directing it at mostly at fans reactions elsewhere and people like Evan Roberts saying Lindor is risking alienating the fan base.
But I’m sorry the only effect paying Lindor another 5 mill a year is on Cohens wallet. You should always want to get a good deal but you also want a good team with good players. And while I’m excited about Cohen and thrilled the Wilpons are gone, his only big move this offseason was the Lindor trade. They passed or lost on every big free agent and haven’t locked up Noah or Conforto.
Lastly, deGrom might be on the best contract in the sport. Maybe use those savings to beef up the team around him?
This is not necessarily correct.
Quote:
But I’m sorry the only effect paying Lindor another 5 mill a year is on Cohens wallet.
Unless you are advocating for the Mets to have a limitless payroll, the effect of this can be not being able to sign Conforto and/or Syndergaard and remaining under the luxury tax.
As I indicated before, the luxury tax is not something I advocate exceeding other than for a 1 year anomaly, because exceeding it every year has compounding penalties including draft picks, IFA, and fees.
Having a billionaire owner does mean a limitless payroll nor should it and the Mets have to find a way to pay everyone and remain under the LT (most years).
its not like they offered him some BS 8/240 kind of deal. I think there is a good chance that Lindor's agent knows the mets made the trade so the pressure is on them and that cohen is worth billions so the agent is doing what they are supposed to and trying to get their client the most money. Aside from the tax (that 5 mill can make a big difference) cohen probably doesnt want to set the precedent that you can ask for whatever you want and the Mets will cave. This is a negotiation, if the agent floated 12/375 right away and Cohen was like "im good with that deal" do we really think that the agent wouldnt say "oh well i talked to my client and we actually think 12/400 is more fair.
But to say "what's the diff" between "billionaire owner" giving 30 mil a year or 35 mill (I know those aren't the numbers) The same could be said of "the player" Is 30 million a year just not enough to get by on in the city of NY? That's about 65 THOUSAND dollars per at bat - or if he hits 300 - call it 200 hits - $162k per hit.
And for those saying its the market rate - no - it isn't - it MAY be in the future - but it isn't - Tatis by comparison got a 14 year deal at $340 but is 5 years younger AND 8% of his earnings go to a "MLB futures company" over and above agent/manager etc.
So, yeah 5 million a year may be pocket change for Uncle Stevie but I'm not crying pauper at 32 million dollars a year to play a game.
The tatis deal isn't a reflection of market rate either
For a variety of reasons. I don't think SD had to pay Tatis for some time yet. They just chose to. And I'm sure he was happy to get $300m rather than just play to his rookie deal.
is precisely because fans will generally default to "He gets X millions to play a game, when is enough enough?".
Cohen is going to be making quite a lot of money by having Lindor in his uniform selling merchandise and tickets and inflating the franchise's value even more.
Gary Myers
@GaryMyersNY
·
48m
I remember Mickey Mantle signing for $100,000 for 1963 season. Francisco Lindor just turned down $200,617.28 per game from Mets. When is enough enough? He was offered 10-year $325M deal. Wants 12-year $385M to age 39 season. Not a good look for Mr. Smile, especially in pandemic.
Being honest, it's a little unsettling, maybe it requires some getting used to, but it seems weird seeing the owner commenting publicly on active negotiations.
Being honest, it's a little unsettling, maybe it requires some getting used to, but it seems weird seeing the owner commenting publicly on active negotiations.
It's low-class and something players may take notice of going forward. Crowd-sourcing his next contract? This latest tweet? Serves no purpose.. at all.
"In response to an article that implied the Mets and Lindor’s camp were looking for avenues to bridge a gap in negotiations, Cohen replied: “I don’t see a lot of brainstorming going on over here.”
Metsmerized
@Metsmerized
·
4m
Per @jackramseymmo
, There is still an expectation that Francisco Lindor will sign by Opening Day, but a source says that the deal will not be for 12 years and $385 million
Metsmerized
@Metsmerized
·
4m
Per @jackramseymmo
, There is still an expectation that Francisco Lindor will sign by Opening Day, but a source says that the deal will not be for 12 years and $385 million
100% wasn't trying to knock him at all. I just meant he's not (or hasn't been) one to break any news unlike say, Michael Mayer who has in fact broken some stories despite "only" being a blogger.
Not going to argue the value of Francisco Lindor but this new narrative "he obviously doesn't want to be here" is absurd and based on fans prepping to be butthurt. He believes he's worth more than 325 million (rightly or wrongly). That's it
don't need a checkmark to be an informed sports "writer" on twitter. Guys like Michael Mayer and Resnick have repeatedly broken news. I have no idea who they have as sources but they do. Even Joe D, he had the Callaway story from a legitimate writer before it even broke. I just tend to doubt "who again?" on MAJOR stories that other big-time team-connected sources don't have. I want to believe Cohen is bull-shitting when he essentially claims they aren't looking for ways to get this done.
don't need a checkmark to be an informed sports "writer" on twitter. Guys like Michael Mayer and Resnick have repeatedly broken news. I have no idea who they have as sources but they do. Even Joe D, he had the Callaway story from a legitimate writer before it even broke. I just tend to doubt "who again?" on MAJOR stories that other big-time team-connected sources don't have. I want to believe Cohen is bull-shitting when he essentially claims they aren't looking for ways to get this done.
As much as I blame both sides in these cases - Do we think everyone is (in reality) dug in or is it posture.
Does 10/325 final offer - really mean FINAL (Cohen tweeting - he hopes Lindor signs) and does Francisco saying Will not negotiate after 4/1 REALLY mean talks are dead dead?
I hope we find out soon and that there is some movement since I would like both sides happy with the end result. 10/340 or some such... or last two years team option at 32m or whatever
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
i'd bet a lot of money a deal gets done in the next 24 hours
that's just how these things go when it makes too much sense to both sides. JDG and LW are 2 recent examples where some of the most plugged in writers on both sides were saying "no momentum" hours before official announcements.
Both sides know the deadline, both sides want a deal, a deal will get done.
If it doesn't one side screwed up big time, and in this case I don't think it would be the NYM (assuming the $325m offer is true).
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
He would have been absolutely foolish not to. In Tatis' situation his deal is quite player friendly. They could have simply held him on a team-friendly rookie deal.
Lindor is a much more accomplished player and has been consistently excellent year in and year out. If Tatis is worth that, what agent wouldn't argue that a four-time all star in his early prime, who hit the cover off the ball in the ALCS and the World Series, isn't worth significantly more? His agent is doing what he should.
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Yeah Eric... not exactly a fair take. Tatis was NOWHERE near FA. The Padres did him an incredible "solid" in giving him the deal that they did. He didn't take 24 million as an unselfish move, his agent explained to him the most money a 1st year arbitration-eligible player has ever made was 11.9 million... and he was 2 years away from even achieving THAT possibility.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
·
10s
deGrom, Stroman, Peterson, Walker and deGrom is the rotation order, with TBA after that, possibly an opener.
The strategy of an opener works in AL, but I fail to see it in NL because you then limit how long your first reliever can go with the P spot due up unless you are intending for him to bat (which defeats one of the uses of an opener - that no pitcher is around long enough to bat allowing you to have a quasi-DH spot)
"Not only is he a superstar on the field, but he pays attention, he works hard, he cares about his teammates and not only doe he have the quantifiable numbers of a superstar, he has the X-factor," Alonso said on Lindor. "What he brings to a clubhouse is tremendous and can't be measured, along with his superstar talent. ... He's worth every penny of what he decides ... so yeah, pay him $400 million."
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Yeah Eric... not exactly a fair take. Tatis was NOWHERE near FA. The Padres did him an incredible "solid" in giving him the deal that they did. He didn't take 24 million as an unselfish move, his agent explained to him the most money a 1st year arbitration-eligible player has ever made was 11.9 million... and he was 2 years away from even achieving THAT possibility.
Exactly my point - its apples to oranges to compare 2 totally different deals. Tatis' deal was a complete unicorn. My point re AAV was that you can deceptively cite it just as easily as deceptively looking at just the grand total. Tatis' deal should have very little to do with Lindor's deal because Lindor is not 22 years old and he's also not 4+ years from FA.
Separate from that the whole public debate on this negotiation is silly and mostly a waste of time. Everyone knows what the appropriate deal is based on the comps and we all know the NYM made that offer. I'd be incredibly surprised if Lindor passes on it and I think it would be exceedingly risky of him to do so. So for those reasons I'd be very surprised if he does in fact pass on it, but if he does it's his right. It's just as possible his doing so would do the Mets a favor as otherwise.
Every debate on any issue here could be boiled down
To a waste of time. I'm not sure where you're going with that. It's a discussion board. We're all here because we're choosing to kill time talking about it.
And I dont think you'd find a player agent anywhere who wouldn't use a recently signed contract at the same position as the framework for another deal. We see it all the time in the NFL. We can say tatis is a different scenario, but its not entirely. SD got to that number somehow, under no leverage stress since Tatis was years from free agency.
"punishing" lindor 's value for being 4 years younger is easily countered by the just the facts that he's been top of the league great, consistently. There are no questions about his ability, no concerns of regression. He's proven in the regular season and the playoffs. Youth is certainly not the leading metric for contract valuation. There's more risk in the younger player because there's more unknown.
TTH I wasn't talking about the debate here specifically
but overall by the fanbase and writers everywhere (twitter, interviews, etc). Broadly speaking some topics are absorbed and discussed more smartly than others, and this one has been on the wrong end of the spectrum. I saw a comment (not here) that related the cost of Cohen's SEC fine to why he'd be "cheap" if he didn't get Lindor signed. Of course discussion is the point of any message board but this topic seems so overwrought ("same old mets!") when the NYM to this point have done exactly the right things and shown no reason to believe they won't do what it takes to keep Lindor now or in the future should he continue to hold out (and should they want him).
As far as Tatis, it was a first of it's kind deal and the 2 situations were very different from each other, period. The comparable deals from players recently at UFA or within 1 year of approaching it are those that as in the article below have been correctly utilized as comparisons ad nauseam since January - Betts, Harper, Arenado, Machado. Britton's projection in this article below from almost 3 months ago was 11 years 330m. Which turns out to be right in line with where the Mets are right now. Also relatively predictable since January was that this would come down to the deadline and that there would be all sorts of rumors until the moment something actually happens.
at Lindor’s camp. $325M is already higher price than their analytics has for his projected production and they don’t want to go higher or meet in the middle.
It doesn’t sound good at the moment, but part of me thinks this is a lot of noise and we’re going to see an agreement for 10yrs/$335M tomorrow.
just read that. Lindor should cave, it would be to his own benefit. I'm not sure he'll get a better deal. Cohen is not a dumb business man, he knew he had the best offer when he first bought the Mets, but backed out when Jeffy made an unreasonable demand. It's a similar situation. The Wilpons lost about $250 million by backing out of the sale the first go-around. Hard to believe lindor will get anything better.
Cohen is insanely wealthy
It's not "my" money
etc...
If what's above is accurate, that's more than a fair offer. I am fine letting Lindor play for his contract this year. As a Met fan I pray neither of these happens, but if he gets hurt or has even a mediocre year, he has absolutely f'd himself.
just read that. Lindor should cave, it would be to his own benefit. I'm not sure he'll get a better deal. Cohen is not a dumb business man, he knew he had the best offer when he first bought the Mets, but backed out when Jeffy made an unreasonable demand. It's a similar situation. The Wilpons lost about $250 million by backing out of the sale the first go-around. Hard to believe lindor will get anything better.
If there’s one thing we know about Cohen, he’s not going to go through with a deal if he thinks it’s bad, even if he emotionally wants something. He was willing to walk away from the Mets when the Wilpons were screwing around.
about not saying when a shit load of money is "enough" money for someone else.
But when you reject a non-deferred $325M offer while making $21M the current year not even being counted in the $325M (which would make your career earnings over $50M) because you want $60M more. You deserve to rot in hell.
and you really don't want to be where you currently are, the talk about culture is bullshit the talk about it not being just about money is bullshit, it's only about money.
doesn't sign, F him. Move on to the next guy. More than fair contract offer.
It seems that this is where we are - and it's the Lindor camp that has a take it or leave it offer on the table where Cohen has moved twice and thought (at dinner) they had a deal.
Far as I'm concerned let him play out his contract - Time to buckle up the horses and GET TO IT starting tomorrow.
Extension or not I'm psyched for tomorrow and how the Mets will handle this season!
Cohen is smarter than any agent when it comes to understanding time value of money (and the fans, press who keep bringing up Bonilla like idiots every year)... All the players seem to want is bragging rights on biggest $$ contract..
At this point maybe he just goes to Lindor with a higher value with significantly deferrals, but at a lower NPV than the current dea and Lindor can just regret it in 15 years.. haha
Makes me sad it won't be a full stadium for the home opener, would be nice for the faithful to let him know how they feel..especially if he has a rough debut..
Technically the deal is 347 million over 11 years with no deferrals In Mets money since its tacked on starting next year.
I still stand that he knew he would sign the entire time and they are just making the Mets sweat until the last second to get as much as they can.
If he doesn't sign that deal before the game tomorrow then so be it, but he would be a complete fool IMO.
I still say this is posturing.
Well - I hope you're right - but it seems more likely that either Lindor is getting some bad advice or he is not comfortable committing to the the Mets for 10 years.
Maybe it is both sides - but it sure doesn't seem that way at this point.
One has to wonder if he just doesn't want to play here, and his mind is made up on that.
I say that because I don't see any coherent reason to reject that deal. Even if he had an MVP season I'm not sure he'd get more than that on the open market, especially with other SS options in free agency next winter.
He is turning down a decade+ commitment of almost $350M. I can't see any reasonable explanation for that.
if he has a career year, great for mets. And guess what? there still may not be a better offer elsewhere.
if he has a middling season...whoops.
Cohen has proven he is willing to spend money. And even better is in the process of proving he's not just going to roll over to bid against himself.
That's really important...he can't let players view him as a pushover just because he is the richest owner...
I've always said, I didn't want the Mets to throw money around just for the sake, I just want them to be willing to spend. He is definitely willing to spend..
I'd rather lose Lindor than Conforto or Thor anyway.. #1 I have 0 emotional connection with Lindor #2 there will likely be other superstar SSs on the market..
Not holding my breath though.
I’ll take the latter all day long.
From your mouth to Gods ear - and my credit card waiting to get an OFFICIAL Lindor in blue with the 41 patch on it as soon as its announced. (not yet available far as I can tell)
While no deal was struck at the Palm Beach dinner Saturday night, the Mets and Lindor clarified their positions and there’s still some hope something could get done in the 3 days before Opening Day
“Some hope” isn’t as optimistic as I would have hoped..
Help me understand the Lux Tax loophole where the Deal gets done this week, but isn't signed / announced until after the Season actually starts.
Explain it like I'm a 5 year old...heh-heh.
Help me understand the Lux Tax loophole where the Deal gets done this week, but isn't signed / announced until after the Season actually starts.
Explain it like I'm a 5 year old...heh-heh.
Long story short if his extension is signed for the 2022 and beyond seasons then his 30-35 (whatever it might be) lux tax number will be that number for the entirety of his contract. Backloading contracts etc has no impact on the luxury tax. If Lindor’s new deal is tacked onto his 2021 and begins in 2022 then his 2021 cost is 22 and his 2022 and beyond cost is his 30+ number
Quote:
DMM --
Help me understand the Lux Tax loophole where the Deal gets done this week, but isn't signed / announced until after the Season actually starts.
Explain it like I'm a 5 year old...heh-heh.
Long story short if his extension is signed for the 2022 and beyond seasons then his 30-35 (whatever it might be) lux tax number will be that number for the entirety of his contract. Backloading contracts etc has no impact on the luxury tax. If Lindor’s new deal is tacked onto his 2021 and begins in 2022 then his 2021 cost is 22 and his 2022 and beyond cost is his 30+ number
OK. I wonder if Lindor is willing to play this year for 22 Mill ? Next year's FA Shortstop crop is going to set new salary benchmarks.
I’ll take the latter all day long.
Feel the same way. Also heard MLB is going to try to clamp down on pitchers and foreign substances on balls. Would be interesting if Bauer gets busted and has a "down" year. It'll be cool (and I wouldn't doubt) if Walker has a comparable year; for a fraction of the $.
Quote:
as long as we lock up Lindor, Conforto and Thor.
I’ll take the latter all day long.
Feel the same way. Also heard MLB is going to try to clamp down on pitchers and foreign substances on balls. Would be interesting if Bauer gets busted and has a "down" year. It'll be cool (and I wouldn't doubt) if Walker has a comparable year; for a fraction of the $.
I watched a little of Bauer's game the other night....he is a mouthy bastid out on the mound. Shouting and waving his arms, and gesturing wildly at batters.
That act would get old, IMO.
It's very, very odd. He's been terrible and has an option left. Montgomery is nothing special but that was a strange move.
@StevenACohen2
·
42s
Replying to
@nybaseballpod
and
@TheAmazinCiti
Well , we have a deadline Mar 31 ,today is the 29th. It either will or won’t in the next two days.
Per Heyman "no traction" with Conforto and Syndergaard they only discussed if he's open to negotiating not actual talks.
@SNYtv
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8m
The Mets have offered more than $300 million in extension talks with Francisco Lindor, but the two sides are not on the verge of a deal
@SNYtv
·
8m
The Mets have offered more than $300 million in extension talks with Francisco Lindor, but the two sides are not on the verge of a deal
Yah, I read that. Sounds pretty grim on getting a deal done. Was hoping I could wait until at least September to say "wait til next year" LOL
I can't find a situation in my head where cohen doesn't look bad for making this deal and then not paying the expected contract.
Failing to sign Lindor would be a disaster, crowd source "fun" on twitter or not.
@joonlee
Mets first baseman Pete Alonso is joining the sports - NFT craze by auctioning off his own NFT, with proceeds supporting minor leaguers affected by the pandemic
“To be able to raise funds and help out guys that need it ... I'm very thankful."
Unless of course they cut in mid-interview with breaking news that Lindor signed the extension!
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
3m
Mets hire external law firm to investigate “workplace culture.”
(Plus an update on where Mickey Callaway investigation stands).
Quote:
for each of of Lindor, Conforto and Noah or at least 2/3. Seems like Lindor is likely to happen but any buzz on the other two?
Per Heyman "no traction" with Conforto and Syndergaard they only discussed if he's open to negotiating not actual talks.
Syndergaard is super tough to expect anything before he proves himself or Mets see what they have. Mets of course would love to get him for a discount but he's not going to give up the chance at a huge payday that would come if he comes back strong this year...
Conforto worries me. I know the Mets don't really have a choice after they made the Lindor deal, but if you're Conforto you see all the attention and the $325M deal being offered to the shiny new toy, when Conforto is the one who has busted his butt through thick and thin..
Hopefully they give him his 8-10 year deal at $27-28M per and he's happy to lock it down, but I wouldn't expect a hometown discount at this point...
Now Heyman and Martino confirming
If that's the number my guess is maybe it's now about opt outs, deferred money, and those details, I'd be surprised if Lindor was holding out for more $$$.
Quote:
Mets offer is 10 year 325 million - Not sure why that number doesn't get it done but it should land on Lindor not Cohen if true and he wont sign.
If that's the number my guess is maybe it's now about opt outs, deferred money, and those details, I'd be surprised if Lindor was holding out for more $$$.
Unless the leak is coming from the Cohen camp and he's trying to save face knowing there wont be a deal
if it's not, it's easy for either side to publicly refute.
if it's not and Cohen was just leaking it, wouldn't it look worse for him, not better?
if it's not, it's easy for either side to publicly refute.
if it's not and Cohen was just leaking it, wouldn't it look worse for him, not better?
Since it would be the 5th largest contract in MLB history - Lindor would look a little like the villain if he doesn't sign it. I get the devils in the details but c'mon.
And I would probably change my jersey choice to Black official with the 41 patch
But I do know for 100% fact who leaked the “over $300mm” number last week...
There is absolutely no reason to sweat this. None whatsoever.
Sounds far apart to me. And I wouldn't blame Steve and Sandy a bit for not getting it done.
Time to sweat this one out.
I am in the side of letting him play the year out and seeing what is out there in free Agency.
Is any willing to pony up 12 years really?
Not like we can’t outbid teams in the offseason if he’s an FA.
@timbhealey
Source: Lindor has made the Mets a counteroffer, $385 million over 12 years.
That is a slightly lower average annual value but a longer term and significantly higher total financial commitment.
Lindor already has told the Mets no their “best and final” offer of $325M/10 years.
Tough spot..makes you wish they got Conforto extended before the Lindor trade.
Honestly I'd prefer they lock up Conforto and Thor, give Lindor the 1 year audition on the big stage... then go next offseason and lock up Lindor or if that falls through then there are a few other superstar shortstops on the market as well...
But sure be happy that Sandy didn’t “overpay” while the players does well on another team.
Now in this case its more about the years for Lindor so that makes it a bit less of an issue now since the AAV is actually a bit lower. No team is going to have an infinite salary no matter how many pieces of art work the owner has, so it does matter that the team gets a solid deal on a player. I dont want Cohen to "win" the deal, i want the Mets to get a fair deal for both them and Lindor.
But sure be happy that Sandy didn’t “overpay” while the players does well on another team.
it's not picking owners over players, but even the owners with the deepest pockets a) set a budget and b) have the luxury tax which is an additive tax and continues to get worse the longer you exceed it
knowing this fact, most fans just want good players signed and don't really care if player x gets eleventy billion dollars as long as player y can still be signed.
if you're suggesting fans shouldn't care about the luxury tax and should hold owners feet to the fire to exceed it regularly, well that's just not realistic. Billionaire, millionaire, whatever, almost no one owns a sports team to lose money even if it's not their primary source of income.
And trading for him means you don't have much leverage here to play with. You're a new ownership group. Your fans are hypersensitive to money issues, specifically not spending money. There would be no situation where letting him walk and taking the compensatory picks makes doesn't bring out the pitchforks and torches and make you appear to be deaf-eared to the team and fanbase you inherited.
But I’m sorry the only effect paying Lindor another 5 mill a year is on Cohens wallet. You should always want to get a good deal but you also want a good team with good players. And while I’m excited about Cohen and thrilled the Wilpons are gone, his only big move this offseason was the Lindor trade. They passed or lost on every big free agent and haven’t locked up Noah or Conforto.
Lastly, deGrom might be on the best contract in the sport. Maybe use those savings to beef up the team around him?
But I’m sorry the only effect paying Lindor another 5 mill a year is on Cohens wallet. You should always want to get a good deal but you also want a good team with good players. And while I’m excited about Cohen and thrilled the Wilpons are gone, his only big move this offseason was the Lindor trade. They passed or lost on every big free agent and haven’t locked up Noah or Conforto.
Lastly, deGrom might be on the best contract in the sport. Maybe use those savings to beef up the team around him?
This is not necessarily correct.
Unless you are advocating for the Mets to have a limitless payroll, the effect of this can be not being able to sign Conforto and/or Syndergaard and remaining under the luxury tax.
As I indicated before, the luxury tax is not something I advocate exceeding other than for a 1 year anomaly, because exceeding it every year has compounding penalties including draft picks, IFA, and fees.
Having a billionaire owner does mean a limitless payroll nor should it and the Mets have to find a way to pay everyone and remain under the LT (most years).
Having a billionaire owner does mean a....
should be
Having a billionaire owner does *not* mean a....
Also who cares what Evan Roberts says, lol.
And for those saying its the market rate - no - it isn't - it MAY be in the future - but it isn't - Tatis by comparison got a 14 year deal at $340 but is 5 years younger AND 8% of his earnings go to a "MLB futures company" over and above agent/manager etc.
So, yeah 5 million a year may be pocket change for Uncle Stevie but I'm not crying pauper at 32 million dollars a year to play a game.
Cohen is going to be making quite a lot of money by having Lindor in his uniform selling merchandise and tickets and inflating the franchise's value even more.
@GaryMyersNY
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48m
I remember Mickey Mantle signing for $100,000 for 1963 season. Francisco Lindor just turned down $200,617.28 per game from Mets. When is enough enough? He was offered 10-year $325M deal. Wants 12-year $385M to age 39 season. Not a good look for Mr. Smile, especially in pandemic.
Being honest, it's a little unsettling, maybe it requires some getting used to, but it seems weird seeing the owner commenting publicly on active negotiations.
I mean why would Cohen troll the fans like this
Being honest, it's a little unsettling, maybe it requires some getting used to, but it seems weird seeing the owner commenting publicly on active negotiations.
It's low-class and something players may take notice of going forward. Crowd-sourcing his next contract? This latest tweet? Serves no purpose.. at all.
I think something like 7yrs/$165M gets it done.
Quote:
Martino says Boras has floated 200 million for Conforto.
I think something like 7yrs/$165M gets it done.
I'd be stunned. Springer was 3 years older and coming off "COVID 2020". Conforto is going to get close to 200. The OF market is in a word.. laughable.
"In response to an article that implied the Mets and Lindor’s camp were looking for avenues to bridge a gap in negotiations, Cohen replied: “I don’t see a lot of brainstorming going on over here.”
He's intentionally trolling his own fanbase at this point. Great.
Jack Ramsey
@jackramseymmo
·
18m
Source to me just now: “I think (Lindor) signs”
He's intentionally trolling his own fanbase at this point. Great.
Telling the fans they aren't looking for ways to appease Lindor is one strange thing to opt to do.
Jack Ramsey
@jackramseymmo
·
18m
Source to me just now: “I think (Lindor) signs”
He's a nice guy but he's "just" a blogger for MMO. No knock on him but he's not a reporter.
Metsmerized
@Metsmerized
·
4m
Per @jackramseymmo
, There is still an expectation that Francisco Lindor will sign by Opening Day, but a source says that the deal will not be for 12 years and $385 million
Metsmerized
@Metsmerized
·
4m
Per @jackramseymmo
, There is still an expectation that Francisco Lindor will sign by Opening Day, but a source says that the deal will not be for 12 years and $385 million
100% wasn't trying to knock him at all. I just meant he's not (or hasn't been) one to break any news unlike say, Michael Mayer who has in fact broken some stories despite "only" being a blogger.
Sometimes people like me see tweets on twitter and share them.
Your background helped people put it in context.
IOW it's not like this is coming from Rosenthal or baseball's version of Schefter.
10 for 325 is 32.5 per season
12 for 385 is 32 per season
So while people are going nuts over "385!" it's not exactly a crazy upper end to ask for. I'd offer 11 for 357.5 and completely split the difference.
As much as I blame both sides in these cases - Do we think everyone is (in reality) dug in or is it posture.
Does 10/325 final offer - really mean FINAL (Cohen tweeting - he hopes Lindor signs) and does Francisco saying Will not negotiate after 4/1 REALLY mean talks are dead dead?
I hope we find out soon and that there is some movement since I would like both sides happy with the end result. 10/340 or some such... or last two years team option at 32m or whatever
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
Both sides know the deadline, both sides want a deal, a deal will get done.
If it doesn't one side screwed up big time, and in this case I don't think it would be the NYM (assuming the $325m offer is true).
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Quote:
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
He would have been absolutely foolish not to. In Tatis' situation his deal is quite player friendly. They could have simply held him on a team-friendly rookie deal.
Lindor is a much more accomplished player and has been consistently excellent year in and year out. If Tatis is worth that, what agent wouldn't argue that a four-time all star in his early prime, who hit the cover off the ball in the ALCS and the World Series, isn't worth significantly more? His agent is doing what he should.
Brujan, Gorman, Abrams, Dominguez, Celestin, Green, Gore, Lacy, Meyer, Mize
Quote:
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Yeah Eric... not exactly a fair take. Tatis was NOWHERE near FA. The Padres did him an incredible "solid" in giving him the deal that they did. He didn't take 24 million as an unselfish move, his agent explained to him the most money a 1st year arbitration-eligible player has ever made was 11.9 million... and he was 2 years away from even achieving THAT possibility.
@NYPost_Mets
·
10s
deGrom, Stroman, Peterson, Walker and deGrom is the rotation order, with TBA after that, possibly an opener.
Stupid of Lindor to turn down this offer (if a deal doesn't ultimately get done). $30 mil for a 39 year old Lindor? No thanks.
Stupid of Lindor to turn down this offer (if a deal doesn't ultimately get done). $30 mil for a 39 year old Lindor? No thanks.
Yup - I dont care who or how they save face at this point - just get'r done and let's Play Ball
@NYPost_Mets
·
10s
deGrom, Stroman, Peterson, Walker and deGrom is the rotation order, with TBA after that, possibly an opener.
The strategy of an opener works in AL, but I fail to see it in NL because you then limit how long your first reliever can go with the P spot due up unless you are intending for him to bat (which defeats one of the uses of an opener - that no pitcher is around long enough to bat allowing you to have a quasi-DH spot)
Quote:
In comment 15203051 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's like getting mad at a dog for barking and sniffing butts.
It should surprise no one that Lindor was going for maximum dollars. He wouldn't go for 200m in cleveland, then watched a child with 143 career games get 300m.
That child also accepted a $24m AAV even though he may shortly be the best player in the sport. Every situation is different.
Yeah Eric... not exactly a fair take. Tatis was NOWHERE near FA. The Padres did him an incredible "solid" in giving him the deal that they did. He didn't take 24 million as an unselfish move, his agent explained to him the most money a 1st year arbitration-eligible player has ever made was 11.9 million... and he was 2 years away from even achieving THAT possibility.
Exactly my point - its apples to oranges to compare 2 totally different deals. Tatis' deal was a complete unicorn. My point re AAV was that you can deceptively cite it just as easily as deceptively looking at just the grand total. Tatis' deal should have very little to do with Lindor's deal because Lindor is not 22 years old and he's also not 4+ years from FA.
Separate from that the whole public debate on this negotiation is silly and mostly a waste of time. Everyone knows what the appropriate deal is based on the comps and we all know the NYM made that offer. I'd be incredibly surprised if Lindor passes on it and I think it would be exceedingly risky of him to do so. So for those reasons I'd be very surprised if he does in fact pass on it, but if he does it's his right. It's just as possible his doing so would do the Mets a favor as otherwise.
And I dont think you'd find a player agent anywhere who wouldn't use a recently signed contract at the same position as the framework for another deal. We see it all the time in the NFL. We can say tatis is a different scenario, but its not entirely. SD got to that number somehow, under no leverage stress since Tatis was years from free agency.
"punishing" lindor 's value for being 4 years younger is easily countered by the just the facts that he's been top of the league great, consistently. There are no questions about his ability, no concerns of regression. He's proven in the regular season and the playoffs. Youth is certainly not the leading metric for contract valuation. There's more risk in the younger player because there's more unknown.
As far as Tatis, it was a first of it's kind deal and the 2 situations were very different from each other, period. The comparable deals from players recently at UFA or within 1 year of approaching it are those that as in the article below have been correctly utilized as comparisons ad nauseam since January - Betts, Harper, Arenado, Machado. Britton's projection in this article below from almost 3 months ago was 11 years 330m. Which turns out to be right in line with where the Mets are right now. Also relatively predictable since January was that this would come down to the deadline and that there would be all sorts of rumors until the moment something actually happens.
Lindor may be willing to roll the dice but it seems like a lot more risk on his end, especially with the CBA looming. One way or another there will be a press conference with a highly paid SS and Steve Cohen over the next 10 months.
Francisco Lindor is open to an extension with the Mets. What might it cost? - ( New Window )
Would be a shame to lose him if all he wants is something like 8/200
It doesn’t sound good at the moment, but part of me thinks this is a lot of noise and we’re going to see an agreement for 10yrs/$335M tomorrow.
@MBrownstein89
·
12m
Some interesting details on the Mets' original contract & follow-up one to Lindor. #Mets #LGM
It's not "my" money
etc...
If what's above is accurate, that's more than a fair offer. I am fine letting Lindor play for his contract this year. As a Met fan I pray neither of these happens, but if he gets hurt or has even a mediocre year, he has absolutely f'd himself.
If there’s one thing we know about Cohen, he’s not going to go through with a deal if he thinks it’s bad, even if he emotionally wants something. He was willing to walk away from the Mets when the Wilpons were screwing around.
But when you reject a non-deferred $325M offer while making $21M the current year not even being counted in the $325M (which would make your career earnings over $50M) because you want $60M more. You deserve to rot in hell.
and you really don't want to be where you currently are, the talk about culture is bullshit the talk about it not being just about money is bullshit, it's only about money.
It seems that this is where we are - and it's the Lindor camp that has a take it or leave it offer on the table where Cohen has moved twice and thought (at dinner) they had a deal.
Far as I'm concerned let him play out his contract - Time to buckle up the horses and GET TO IT starting tomorrow.
Extension or not I'm psyched for tomorrow and how the Mets will handle this season!
LFGM!
At this point maybe he just goes to Lindor with a higher value with significantly deferrals, but at a lower NPV than the current dea and Lindor can just regret it in 15 years.. haha
Makes me sad it won't be a full stadium for the home opener, would be nice for the faithful to let him know how they feel..especially if he has a rough debut..
I still stand that he knew he would sign the entire time and they are just making the Mets sweat until the last second to get as much as they can.
If he doesnt sign that deal before the game tomorrow then so be it, but he would be a complete fool IMO.
I still say this is posturing.
I still stand that he knew he would sign the entire time and they are just making the Mets sweat until the last second to get as much as they can.
If he doesn't sign that deal before the game tomorrow then so be it, but he would be a complete fool IMO.
I still say this is posturing.
Well - I hope you're right - but it seems more likely that either Lindor is getting some bad advice or he is not comfortable committing to the the Mets for 10 years.
Maybe it is both sides - but it sure doesn't seem that way at this point.
I say that because I don't see any coherent reason to reject that deal. Even if he had an MVP season I'm not sure he'd get more than that on the open market, especially with other SS options in free agency next winter.
He is turning down a decade+ commitment of almost $350M. I can't see any reasonable explanation for that.
That's when my love come tumbling down
I'm gonna wait 'til the midnight hour
When there's no one else around…
Midnight hour coming and is going.
if he has a middling season...whoops.
Cohen has proven he is willing to spend money. And even better is in the process of proving he's not just going to roll over to bid against himself.
if he has a middling season...whoops.
Cohen has proven he is willing to spend money. And even better is in the process of proving he's not just going to roll over to bid against himself.
That's really important...he can't let players view him as a pushover just because he is the richest owner...
I've always said, I didn't want the Mets to throw money around just for the sake, I just want them to be willing to spend. He is definitely willing to spend..
I'd rather lose Lindor than Conforto or Thor anyway.. #1 I have 0 emotional connection with Lindor #2 there will likely be other superstar SSs on the market..
Well my last post didn't age well...