We know he is a good kid and hard worker so with that I think we can all agree his rehab is going as well as it can from a work ethic standpoint. He is a specimen and seems to have good healing "abilities". But can he commit to being a willing blocker in pass pro at times it seems like he does not want the contact and at that point the rusher has already won. Like being mentioned with Pitts and EE the want to factor of blocking can he will he improve in that regard. Next his understanding of the situation at hand not all plays will be a homerun ball. Take the hole and glow with the play and the game. Hopefully him seeing Freeman and Gallman having success being patient and taking the good yards to keep the "pitch count" on our side. Last be not least is he over the injury bug ... I know this one has no crystal ball just hopes and prayers I guess.
The main issue I see out of the ones I listed is his WILLINGNESS to block better in pass pro and his desire to pass on the grimy yards and setup the next down for a better chance at success. I hope Judge can fix that in him like TC fixed fumbling and ball security with Tiki ...
What say you all? If he can't be fixed what RBs in the later rounds or future drafts you want to take a chance on?
It's not about me. So what were the Giants doing for the last several year that makes you so confident they have planned this out well?
1. Ownership made a key personnel decision (building around a forked quarterback) based on PR
2. Front office soured on the quarterback class (a class which contained future MVP Lamar Jackson and MVP candidate Josh Allen)
3. Front office identified Barkley as the best player in the draft (he wasn't even close)
As for my view being revisionist, I'd go back and find more posts I made saying these things before we drafted Barkley, but then I'd just be accused of wanting to be right instead of just being a good fan.
All Colin did was describe the incompetence.
Your disappointment now manifests itself in shitty reading comprehension.
Yay us.
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In comment 15206877 Britt in VA said:
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was faked.
No, I think the GM search by Accorsi was fake...
Right, we should have gone outside the box, like John Dorsey. Remind me, who did we miss out on at GM due to this egregious nepotism?
I'm not a Dorsey guy. But I doubt he could have done worse than what Gettleman has done thus far.
So don't act like we got Bill Polian or Ozzie Newsome. We are 15-33 under this DG's "leadership"...
I'm good with Daniel Jones over that choice, even with hindsight, thanks.
I do recall thinking we should inquire about trading for Rosen when it was clear he was on the market - that is true. I honestly don't recall the specifics of the idea.
Hey, I haven't seen the Giants play in a while, can anybody remind me of what their record is? Thanks.
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In comment 15206877 Britt in VA said:
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was faked.
No, I think the GM search by Accorsi was fake...
Right, we should have gone outside the box, like John Dorsey. Remind me, who did we miss out on at GM due to this egregious nepotism?
Remind me first, what is it that we gained by having Gettleman in place the last several years?
The organization was in rubble by the end of 2017.
Any different pick at #2 overall does not change or shift the needle on 15-33 significantly.
We'd still be right here, wondering and waiting for things to pan out.
Hey, I haven't seen the Giants play in a while, can anybody remind me of what their record is? Thanks.
Sure, it's still 15-33 under DG.
Do you really think we chose THE BEST GM candidate in the 2018 search? Do you really think cronyism wasn't at work?
The organization was in rubble by the end of 2017.
Any different pick at #2 overall does not change or shift the needle on 15-33 significantly.
We'd still be right here, wondering and waiting for things to pan out.
And people say I'm negative.
Imagine having this degree of fatalism, where this three year disaster is due to a series of unfortunate events that could not possibly have been avoided.
Shit, 15-33 was probably our ceiling.
The organization was in rubble by the end of 2017.
Any different pick at #2 overall does not change or shift the needle on 15-33 significantly.
We'd still be right here, wondering and waiting for things to pan out.
It was tied to one move, the move to hire Gettleman.
But let's wonder and wait...
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Hey, I haven't seen the Giants play in a while, can anybody remind me of what their record is? Thanks.
Sure, it's still 15-33 under DG.
Do you really think we chose THE BEST GM candidate in the 2018 search? Do you really think cronyism wasn't at work?
Well, here's a thorough list. Tell me who we should have taken.
2018 NFL General Manager Candidate Study - ( New Window )
And obviously the process has been slower than one would have hoped, but I think if you look hard enough you can see the outlines of a plan. They got their QB in 2019, they addressed the OL in 2020 and so far in 2021 they have filled two major holes at WR and at CB. Will it work? Who knows, only time will tell.
And yeah you play the hand you're dealt. People can howl at the moon until the cows come home about 2018. It was the hand we were dealt and people have to do all kinds of mental gymnastics to bitch about taking the best player in the draft. And anybody who says Barkley wasn't the best pure player in that draft is just full of you know what. He was and there wasn't a team in the league who would have taken Quentin Nelson over Barkley.
What's cool about this year is while we may have gotten a bad hand at #2 in 2018, we may be looking at a real nice hand at #11 this year. In fact if 5 QBs expected to go in the top ten the Giants could be looking at being able to get a top 5 prospect at a position of need with the 11th pick, In fact it is entirely possible they'll get a look at more than one top 5 type guy there on the 29th. (Which of course will set off a new round of WTF were they thinking by the guys who would have wanted someone other than the guy they do ultimately take or who simply bitch about whatever the Giants do simply for the sake of it.)
And to boot this year there appears to be some real quality depth in the draft on the second day at WR, CB and the OL in a year the Giants are probably looking to upgrade at WR, CB or the OL with their 2nd and 3rd round picks.
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In comment 15206877 Britt in VA said:
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was faked.
No, I think the GM search by Accorsi was fake...
Right, we should have gone outside the box, like John Dorsey. Remind me, who did we miss out on at GM due to this egregious nepotism?
That's a really hard question to answer because we don't know how comprehensive the list that preceded the search was (we know there were four finalists that interviewed, but it's likely that there was a more exhaustive list that got narrowed down to those four), how much of a priority Mara (and Tisch) placed on having their GM in place before other teams began their offseason work, etc., and we definitely aren't privy to some of the unlikely candidates that might have been on their radar (did anyone genuinely see Joe Judge as a legitimate HC option 15 months ago?). Asking fans to name an alternative isn't really fair - Mara and/or Accorsi are in a much better position to identify GM candidates than fans are.
What we do know is that this franchise has historically had a tendency to go with people that they're familiar with. And we also know that Mara (and Tisch) were leaning on Accorsi to help guide the GM search. Those two factors definitely make it seem like DG at a minimum was probably in pole position when the search began.
What we don't know is whether any other candidate ever really stood a chance and DG just bested them all through the search process, or if it was DG's job to lose and the rest was window dressing.
It doesn't really matter now - I would argue that regardless of what level of cronyism may or may not have been in play at the time when DG was hired, it certainly appears that the front office is now thinking a bit more outside the box than they have in the past. I credit much of that to Judge, but not necessarily because of his direct influence (though that may be a big part of it); rather, I think Mara is seeing the benefit that can come with bringing in some fresh perspective and looks to be embracing that more now.
Whether DG should get any credit for that, or whether it's a result of pulling some power away from DG, we'll probably never know. And as long as the product on the field improves, it doesn't really matter anyway.
Pretty much.
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to any one move.
The organization was in rubble by the end of 2017.
Any different pick at #2 overall does not change or shift the needle on 15-33 significantly.
We'd still be right here, wondering and waiting for things to pan out.
It was tied to one move, the move to hire Gettleman.
But let's wonder and wait...
You guys playing the field and saying they have lost all credibility is what I disagree with.
The NFL is a tough business and they are running a massive corporation, not trying to organically put the best possible team on the field at all costs. I see PR being poo poo'd here. Fans have the luxury of poo pooing that stuff. Corporations do not. PR matters. Just one example of missing the boat.
There are 2 outcomes - either it works, or it fails. Playing the field and saying it wouldn't work doesn't make you a genius. It failed. But it was reasonable to give Eli a chance. It was reasonable to give Barkley a chance because guys like Gil Brandt - and many others - were calling him the best collegiate prospect ever.
And now they appear to have absolutely nailed the Judge hire, and things are looking very promising. So I'm supposed to walk badmouthing Giants management?
I just don't think the odds of pulling the card you need for an inside straight is the way to build a championship team.
I think hoping the unproven QB with an OL filled with rookies and unproven players will all of a sudden be good enough to be a playoff team and signing free agents at full retail price with injury histories and expecting them to stay healthy is the equivalent of that.
I'll be thrilled if I'm wrong. The reason threads like this exist is because all of us no matter which side we're on of these BBI debates are starving for a Giants team on the field to get excited about.
I do believe Joe Judge if given the time and proper support can build a championship team and that's a good start.
And I don’t agree that Barkley was a generational HB talent. It looked that way in 2018 but, leaving aside the injuries entirely, I doubt Saquon is a top 5 HB in the league today. He does not deliver what a top HB needs to deliver. He is a better version of Reggie Bush, which isn’t bad, but is not franchise player material.
You guys playing the field and saying they have lost all credibility is what I disagree with.
The NFL is a tough business and they are running a massive corporation, not trying to organically put the best possible team on the field at all costs. I see PR being poo poo'd here. Fans have the luxury of poo pooing that stuff. Corporations do not. PR matters. Just one example of missing the boat.
There are 2 outcomes - either it works, or it fails. Playing the field and saying it wouldn't work doesn't make you a genius. It failed. But it was reasonable to give Eli a chance. It was reasonable to give Barkley a chance because guys like Gil Brandt - and many others - were calling him the best collegiate prospect ever.
And now they appear to have absolutely nailed the Judge hire, and things are looking very promising. So I'm supposed to walk badmouthing Giants management?
Nobody said you have to badmouth Giants management, or us for that matter but you seem to...
Owning an NFL team team is a money printing press. There is ZERO chance of business failure and ZERO competition.
Owning an NFL team team is a money printing press. There is ZERO chance of business failure and ZERO competition.
I never said failure. Im talking about optimization which is something all major corporations obsess over.
Owning an NFL team team is a money printing press. There is ZERO chance of business failure and ZERO competition.
Exactly. Owning an NFL team isn't like owning an airline.
Your costs are basically fixed by the CBA and, outside of a situation like this pandemic, you are pretty much guaranteed a profit and increase in your franchise value every year.
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In comment 15206932 Britt in VA said:
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Hey, I haven't seen the Giants play in a while, can anybody remind me of what their record is? Thanks.
Sure, it's still 15-33 under DG.
Do you really think we chose THE BEST GM candidate in the 2018 search? Do you really think cronyism wasn't at work?
Well, here's a thorough list. Tell me who we should have taken. 2018 NFL General Manager Candidate Study - ( New Window )
The Gettleman hire was not an attempt to get the best candidate. It was two fold:
1) Find someone baptized in the "Giants Way.
2) And for Accorsi wanted to hire DG because he felt guilty about not recommending him over Reese. Which Accorsi said last summer in a podcast that was linked her at BBI.
So I would have hired someone completely unfamiliar with the "Giants Way", someone much younger, someone who understands modern football, and someone who doesn't act like a complete jackass when he stands up to represent the team.
That quote you found was an absolute masterpiece...
Just so, so stupid.
Jimmy Clownshoes in the house!!
Run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer... how much as Gettleman tried with that last one?
Come on FatMan in Charlotte...stop being a chucklehead and have some fun for a change.
Let's play a game...guess which hand I have the Rebuilding Plan in. Come on, guess...
I doubt it. FMIC, Britt, and the like aren't idiots. They know he's been a disaster. They just don't want to about it to themselves.
You can really feel it with Jones; they don't believe in him anymore than I do.
1) Find someone baptized in the "Giants Way.
2) And for Accorsi wanted to hire DG because he felt guilty about not recommending him over Reese. Which Accorsi said last summer in a podcast that was linked her at BBI.
So I would have hired someone completely unfamiliar with the "Giants Way", someone much younger, someone who understands modern football, and someone who doesn't act like a complete jackass when he stands up to represent the team.
Simply put, I think Mara hired Gettleman because he felt it would be the best path to winning with Eli in his twilight years.
Why do I have to say anything unequivocally? He's done some good, and some not so good, and some bad.
Do you like the pieces we have on defense right now? I do. Do you think this year's free agency has been good? I do. Do you think the past two drafts have been decent? I do.
I believe this team will compete soon. Guess I'm an idiot.
If you believe Gettleman has been a mixed bag, but things are trending upward, that’s a fair opinion.
I unequivocally disagree with him on Jones.
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The Gettleman hire was not an attempt to get the best candidate. It was two fold:
1) Find someone baptized in the "Giants Way.
2) And for Accorsi wanted to hire DG because he felt guilty about not recommending him over Reese. Which Accorsi said last summer in a podcast that was linked her at BBI.
So I would have hired someone completely unfamiliar with the "Giants Way", someone much younger, someone who understands modern football, and someone who doesn't act like a complete jackass when he stands up to represent the team.
Simply put, I think Mara hired Gettleman because he felt it would be the best path to winning with Eli in his twilight years.
Gettleman would have been fired long ago if it wasn't Mara driving the decisions on Eli or DJ. Not surprisingly, DG appears to have miraculously gotten better at his job since Judge and Garrett have been advising the brain trust.
That is why this draft is so important. It is the first significant re-test of the state of play in the Judge era. Hoping the parallel is that we have just completed the painful 1983 season and, in an anti-Orwellian sense, we have arrived back to the future and it is 1984 again...
But no one does that. The guys on this thread are some of DGs most vocal critics and even we admit that he has gotten some things right and brought in some good free agents as of late.
I am certain we would all like him retired ASAP because he has been what we would describe as a failure overall, while not being a failure on each step.
As to the buffoon stuff, and the gifs....whatever.
I dislike Gettleman because every year he’s been in charge the Giants have lost 10+ games. I guarantee I’ll like him and say nice things about him if the Giants win 10+ games.
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The Gettleman hire was not an attempt to get the best candidate. It was two fold:
1) Find someone baptized in the "Giants Way".
2) And for Accorsi wanted to hire DG because he felt guilty about not recommending him over Reese. Which Accorsi said last summer in a podcast that was linked her at BBI.
So I would have hired someone completely unfamiliar with the "Giants Way", someone much younger, someone who understands modern football, and someone who doesn't act like a complete jackass when he stands up to represent the team.
Simply put, I think Mara hired Gettleman because he felt it would be the best path to winning with Eli in his twilight years.
Yes, you are correct. I should have made that more clear. That was sort of rolled up in the "Giants Way" piece.
A lot of his supporters now have distanced themselves or just attack his critics and say they really don’t care if he goes. Or they prop up Judge in lieu of stating the front office is getting better. Whatever...