We know he is a good kid and hard worker so with that I think we can all agree his rehab is going as well as it can from a work ethic standpoint. He is a specimen and seems to have good healing "abilities". But can he commit to being a willing blocker in pass pro at times it seems like he does not want the contact and at that point the rusher has already won. Like being mentioned with Pitts and EE the want to factor of blocking can he will he improve in that regard. Next his understanding of the situation at hand not all plays will be a homerun ball. Take the hole and glow with the play and the game. Hopefully him seeing Freeman and Gallman having success being patient and taking the good yards to keep the "pitch count" on our side. Last be not least is he over the injury bug ... I know this one has no crystal ball just hopes and prayers I guess.
The main issue I see out of the ones I listed is his WILLINGNESS to block better in pass pro and his desire to pass on the grimy yards and setup the next down for a better chance at success. I hope Judge can fix that in him like TC fixed fumbling and ball security with Tiki ...
What say you all? If he can't be fixed what RBs in the later rounds or future drafts you want to take a chance on?
I dislike Gettleman because every year he’s been in charge the Giants have lost 10+ games. I guarantee I’ll like him and say nice things about him if the Giants win 10+ games.
I'll add one thing - he's also a real jerk. If he was a good guy or just a normal person I wouldn't be taking as many shots at him as I do. But to be this bad at his job and be an asshole to boot...fuck that guy.
I think back to all the threads here claiming there's no such thing as a 3 year re-build, teams re-tool on the fly, Manning has plenty left in the tank -- those have aged fabulously.
If we had a crystal ball during that 2018 offseason and knew:
- The Giants would lose 10+ games all three years
- They'd be on their 2nd coach
- Their no. 2 overall RB would be coming off an ACL tear and two consecutive injury plagued seasons
- Their no. 6 overall QB would be coming off an 11TD, 5-9 season
Would that sound successful?
I still believe that MOST teams are able to re-tool on the fly. I didn't make up the phrase "from worst to first".
THIS team could not. It was in bad shape. Far worse than I knew at the time.
So I can easily say now: I WAS WRONG!
But at the end of the day, who gives a shit? There's an equal chance all of these threads could look just as fabulous in three years I suppose.
The 2018 and 2019 draft classes were horrific, as were the free agency decisions those two years.
2018 and 2019 were, essentially, completely thrown away. We finally have a competent adult in the room influencing decisions, and that's great. But there are still two big pieces from those lost years on the roster, and their presence should not continue to impact decision making but it does.
The rebuild has yet to begin.
I think there’s a hell of a big line between mocking, and making fun.
But let’s call it mocking. He’s a public figure, with no real world connection to BBI, and getting made fun of on a fan website has literally zero impact on his life. Is this is a sensibility offending action to you?
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Not that I haven't participated in it, but I don't see the good in it, and am trying to keep from participating in it. Just me though.
I think there’s a hell of a big line between mocking, and making fun.
But let’s call it mocking. He’s a public figure, with no real world connection to BBI, and getting made fun of on a fan website has literally zero impact on his life. Is this is a sensibility offending action to you?
I don't see the big deal if I don't care for making fun of or mocking someone. I'm sure there are things in your life that you are more sensitive (right or wrong) that I am not.
I just don't see the good in it.
I don't want to hear any complaining about "victory laps" or "chest beating" when this shit gets turned around and all of these threads started getting brought up.
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In comment 15208237 crick n NC said:
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Not that I haven't participated in it, but I don't see the good in it, and am trying to keep from participating in it. Just me though.
I think there’s a hell of a big line between mocking, and making fun.
But let’s call it mocking. He’s a public figure, with no real world connection to BBI, and getting made fun of on a fan website has literally zero impact on his life. Is this is a sensibility offending action to you?
I don't see the big deal if I don't care for making fun of or mocking someone. I'm sure there are things in your life that you are more sensitive (right or wrong) that I am not.
I just don't see the good in it.
I believe that practiced behavior becomes the norm. Just because someone isn't around I don't thInk it's good to participate in making fun of or mocking in a way that they may not like. It seems dishonest to me, and I don't want to get into the practice where perhaps I make it a norm to make fun of or mock whether they are present or not.
I don't want to hear any complaining about "victory laps" or "chest beating" when this shit gets turned around and all of these threads started getting brought up.
You seem to definitively know how a lot of people feel. For a guy who guesses wrong a lot, you might want to dial that down.
I’ll be perfectly happy for you to bring up anything I’ve ever posted on this site. If/when a Gettleman constructed team wins more games than it loses I will be thrilled. I’ll be surprised, and I’ll be thrilled.
It won’t change that it took at a minimum four years, which is a bummer.
And for a guy who doesn’t care about right or wrong or how, I hope your victory lap and chest beating are especially unsatisfying for you.
I hope that's equally unsatisfying for you and your buddies.
And even if they do, it wouldn't make picking Barkley second any less foolish. That will be a bad decision forever.
I hope that's equally unsatisfying for you and your buddies.
That's the sad truth
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I want the Giants to be good again. I don't care how they get there. You guys only seem to care if they do it YOUR WAY. Any other way is no good.
I don't want to hear any complaining about "victory laps" or "chest beating" when this shit gets turned around and all of these threads started getting brought up.
You seem to definitively know how a lot of people feel. For a guy who guesses wrong a lot, you might want to dial that down.
I’ll be perfectly happy for you to bring up anything I’ve ever posted on this site. If/when a Gettleman constructed team wins more games than it loses I will be thrilled. I’ll be surprised, and I’ll be thrilled.
It won’t change that it took at a minimum four years, which is a bummer.
And for a guy who doesn’t care about right or wrong or how, I hope your victory lap and chest beating are especially unsatisfying for you.
A +.500 record is too low a bar. 2016 burned me, I thought we had a contender built. I'm also bearish on the ceiling of the core this team has, so I'm extra cautious. We need a couple seasons of competitive football before anointing the turnaround a success. People are so starved for non-shitty football that we're lowering the bar. There's too many teams that have a good season and then flounder (2017 Jacksonville, 2016 Giants, I'm sure we can go on).
The Ravens and Steelers are the models to shoot for. Maybe even the Rams and Saints. Competitive football teams every year like the 2005-2012 Giants. I'd even throw the recent Colts in there - I think they've done a great job of building a team despite struggles at the QB position.
I will be thrilled if this team goes 10-7 next year - and will give the DG and the Giants credit - but I'll also be a little cautious that we have the problem solved.
I hope that's equally unsatisfying for you and your buddies.
When the Giants win, I promise you Britt, your chest beating and victory lap will be the last thing on my or anyone else’s mind.
I don't want to hear any complaining about "victory laps" or "chest beating" when this shit gets turned around and all of these threads started getting brought up.
This is the irony ironies.
And for a guy who doesn’t care about right or wrong or how, I hope your victory lap and chest beating are especially unsatisfying for you.
A +.500 record is too low a bar. 2016 burned me, I thought we had a contender built. I'm also bearish on the ceiling of the core this team has, so I'm extra cautious. We need a couple seasons of competitive football before anointing the turnaround a success. People are so starved for non-shitty football that we're lowering the bar. There's too many teams that have a good season and then flounder (2017 Jacksonville, 2016 Giants, I'm sure we can go on).
I will be thrilled if this team goes 10-7 next year - and will give the DG and the Giants credit - but I'll also be a little cautious that we have the problem solved.
2016 Giants went on a crazy spending spree and an aging QB that barely beat teams on their way to 11-5. Macadoo seemed to make every right call when and when not to go for it. Jacksonville scored an inordinate amount of defensive TDs which is highly variable year to year. Luck does play into football.
I’m not saying he sucks and I’m never saying that I don’t love Barks as a Giant. Of course I want the Giants to win and be a great team. But even if we accept taking a RB at the 2, and I do not, but even if we do, has Barkley been a good 2nd over all pick or is he a disappointment?
Doesn't it always?
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In comment 15208285 christian said:
And for a guy who doesn’t care about right or wrong or how, I hope your victory lap and chest beating are especially unsatisfying for you.
A +.500 record is too low a bar. 2016 burned me, I thought we had a contender built. I'm also bearish on the ceiling of the core this team has, so I'm extra cautious. We need a couple seasons of competitive football before anointing the turnaround a success. People are so starved for non-shitty football that we're lowering the bar. There's too many teams that have a good season and then flounder (2017 Jacksonville, 2016 Giants, I'm sure we can go on).
I will be thrilled if this team goes 10-7 next year - and will give the DG and the Giants credit - but I'll also be a little cautious that we have the problem solved.
2016 Giants went on a crazy spending spree and an aging QB that barely beat teams on their way to 11-5. Macadoo seemed to make every right call when and when not to go for it. Jacksonville scored an inordinate amount of defensive TDs which is highly variable year to year. Luck does play into football.
Yeah, this is so true. I think this entire board was completely wrong about 2017, lol. I thought we had a contender but it was a mirage.
He's ineffectual. A talented open field runner, but the manner in which he's been used does little to actually help score more points and win games. His inability or unwillingness to block is also a huge problem given the quality of the quarterback in the pocket and the OL in general.
The Giants should either change the way they use him (more split wide, less in the backfield) or trade him.
The reason things devolve to criticizing Gettleman is that an honest assessment of Barkley naturally leads to the question of why he was picked where he was picked.
Not fond of it, but you have done it and you have to restrain yourself from doing it more often. And have to pass along to us that you think there is no good in it.
This is where the Church Lady would say, “Well, isn’t that special”...
I don't want to hear any complaining about "victory laps" or "chest beating" when this shit gets turned around and all of these threads started getting brought up.
What in the world would you go and take a victory lap for when the Giants turn this around? How foolish do you want to look?
Obviously the Giants will get better at some point, make the playoffs and possibly even go further. We all want it to happen and it will eventually.
But suggesting that would have had anything to do with some master rebuilding plan that was hatched by this GM in any of the last three years is comical at best. Or that the same posters that defended DG, then distanced themselves, and now say they don’t care if he gets fired or not as long as Judge is involved would have the nerve to create a post that says “See! I told you the Giants would win again and that this GM knows what he is doing!”.
Please do that actually...anybody taking a victory lap in any fashion will look moronic. Look forward to it...
I’m not saying he sucks and I’m never saying that I don’t love Barks as a Giant. Of course I want the Giants to win and be a great team. But even if we accept taking a RB at the 2, and I do not, but even if we do, has Barkley been a good 2nd over all pick or is he a disappointment?
No, he hasn’t been a good pick but mostly because of the injuries. But if he recovers well and produces again for us that will help.
He though will never be a good #2 overall pick for what this team was and had to do in 2018...
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Not that I haven't participated in it, but I don't see the good in it, and am trying to keep from participating in it. Just me though.
Not fond of it, but you have done it and you have to restrain yourself from doing it more often. And have to pass along to us that you think there is no good in it.
This is where the Church Lady would say, “Well, isn’t that special”...
I like mocking Gettleman. He brings it on himself with his arrogance and smugness. It's amazing that the Giants hired someone for their storied franchise who carries himself this way and is rarely buttoned up. So until the team starts winning, it's open season.
And it's in good fun, too, for me. The guy is also very entertaining...
The Giants have a history of lovable losers — Handley, McAdoo, Dave Brown, Cedric Jones, hell Ernie Accorsi had a good decade of being the butt of the joke.
The guy’s put together 3 straight 10 game losers. He’s most certainly in line for some ribbing.
Win some games and everyone will love him.
I hope Mara learned his lesson not to guide the team based on fan reaction because most of us are morons 😂. Most fan reactions are just empty threats which I'm sure Mara saw after supporting player's right to kneel. There were angry letters, but no impact to his bottom line.
To your point here, can't you argue this is exactly what they did in 2019? Took a QB for the sake of taking a QB instead of BPA?
I hope that Jones and Barkley are homerun picks, but the difference between being great at your job and mediocre is inconsistency. The messaging and application of the Giants roster management on a year to year basis has been inconsistent at best, which is why i think people question whether they are getting it right.
I think it's gotten more consistent under Judge, I'm looking forward to see how it comes together this year.
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But the fan base blew up and Mara saw he had a potential PR disaster on his hands and cleaned house and Eli got his job back at least for the rest of the season. Still, the Giants had every intention of taking a QB with the #2 pick in the 2018 draft. Certainly no team did more due diligence on the QBs that year than the Giants. Indeed, for the longest time that draft class was looked at kind of like this year's with talk of as many as QBs going in the first 4-5 picks.
I hope Mara learned his lesson not to guide the team based on fan reaction because most of us are morons 😂. Most fan reactions are just empty threats which I'm sure Mara saw after supporting player's right to kneel. There were angry letters, but no impact to his bottom line.
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While I have never been a big fan of Gettleman my sense is if anything the FO maybe should be commended for not panicking and taking a QB just for the sake of taking one and settling on the best player in the draft. has it worked out the way we hoped. Obviously, but welcome to the wild, wacky world of the NFL.
To your point here, can't you argue this is exactly what they did in 2019? Took a QB for the sake of taking a QB instead of BPA?
I hope that Jones and Barkley are homerun picks, but the difference between being great at your job and mediocre is inconsistency. The messaging and application of the Giants roster management on a year to year basis has been inconsistent at best, which is why i think people question whether they are getting it right.
I think it's gotten more consistent under Judge, I'm looking forward to see how it comes together this year.
BH: Not sure what lesson that would be. If you have an impending PR disaster of Titanic proportions and you fire your GM who the fan base generally hates anyway and the PR disaster disappears. Your point is?
Re Jones and the 6th pick; there's a pretty basic rule of BPA drafting and that is that if you need a QB and you like a QB then BPA doesn't count and you go get the QB. There's a reason that 9 of the 18 players taken with one of the first three picks in the past 6 years were QBs.
The Giants have a history of lovable losers — Handley, McAdoo, Dave Brown, Cedric Jones, hell Ernie Accorsi had a good decade of being the butt of the joke.
The guy’s put together 3 straight 10 game losers. He’s most certainly in line for some ribbing.
Win some games and everyone will love him.
I'm guessing this is in reference to me. I never said it was OOB for you or others, I said that I don't prefer mocking or making fun of in general, not just Gettleman. (it's not how I want to be treated even if I'm not around to hear it). What you do is your business, I know that I make other people's behavior my business too often when it doesn't affect me, and I'm working on that (my behavior needs to be my concern). I was giving my 2 cents earlier of why I don't consider making fun of as a positive behavior for myself. You finding my pov as hilarious is your way of making fun of my pov which is your right to do.
I have a good time messing around and being messed with by people I trust. I think a lot of people disguise slights and shots as playful talk.
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This has sort of devolved into a Getty thread. I think it’s far more interesting to talk about Barkley as a player. In my opinion, he’s over rated by most Giants fans and more than a few NFL pundits. Three seasons into his career and people still talk about him like he’s a first round HoF back. I’m just not sure that’s what he’s established in his body of work. He isn’t always on the field, and yes, availability counts in the NFL. He doesn’t always - or even often - take over games and win. And he has on more than a few occasions disappeared entirely in games. He’s a liability in pass pro, which is a huge problem for a back that’s supposed to be a big piece of the team because you have to take off the field on passing downs or, play him at another position (I guess?). He’s a physical load but he hasn’t proven to be a reliable short yardage guy. He doesn’t wear down a defense and can’t always get the hard yards between the tackles. I would also throw in that he’s fairly average at route running even though many here seem to think he’s the best receiver on the team. I don’t even know if he’s got plus hands and catching ability. Does he make wow plays and amazing highlight moves? Can he score from anywhere and anytime he touches the ball? Yes! But, has he made the Giants better? Is he a great back? Is he one of the best players in the NFL? I can’t say that he is.
I’m not saying he sucks and I’m never saying that I don’t love Barks as a Giant. Of course I want the Giants to win and be a great team. But even if we accept taking a RB at the 2, and I do not, but even if we do, has Barkley been a good 2nd over all pick or is he a disappointment?
No, he hasn’t been a good pick but mostly because of the injuries. But if he recovers well and produces again for us that will help.
He though will never be a good #2 overall pick for what this team was and had to do in 2018...
You're right unless the Giants somehow win a Super Bowl with Saquon Barkley as the lead back, which I think is very unlikely
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In comment 15206699 Colin@gbn said:
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But the fan base blew up and Mara saw he had a potential PR disaster on his hands and cleaned house and Eli got his job back at least for the rest of the season. Still, the Giants had every intention of taking a QB with the #2 pick in the 2018 draft. Certainly no team did more due diligence on the QBs that year than the Giants. Indeed, for the longest time that draft class was looked at kind of like this year's with talk of as many as QBs going in the first 4-5 picks.
I hope Mara learned his lesson not to guide the team based on fan reaction because most of us are morons 😂. Most fan reactions are just empty threats which I'm sure Mara saw after supporting player's right to kneel. There were angry letters, but no impact to his bottom line.
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While I have never been a big fan of Gettleman my sense is if anything the FO maybe should be commended for not panicking and taking a QB just for the sake of taking one and settling on the best player in the draft. has it worked out the way we hoped. Obviously, but welcome to the wild, wacky world of the NFL.
To your point here, can't you argue this is exactly what they did in 2019? Took a QB for the sake of taking a QB instead of BPA?
I hope that Jones and Barkley are homerun picks, but the difference between being great at your job and mediocre is inconsistency. The messaging and application of the Giants roster management on a year to year basis has been inconsistent at best, which is why i think people question whether they are getting it right.
I think it's gotten more consistent under Judge, I'm looking forward to see how it comes together this year.
BH: Not sure what lesson that would be. If you have an impending PR disaster of Titanic proportions and you fire your GM who the fan base generally hates anyway and the PR disaster disappears. Your point is?
Re Jones and the 6th pick; there's a pretty basic rule of BPA drafting and that is that if you need a QB and you like a QB then BPA doesn't count and you go get the QB. There's a reason that 9 of the 18 players taken with one of the first three picks in the past 6 years were QBs.
The lesson would be don't let fan reaction guide your roster decisions. They really could have used the rest of that season to see what they had regarding Webb. I'm not insinuating he would have amounted to anything, but he was an unknown. And that decision, IMO leaked into 2018 with trying to build around Eli.
They needed a QB in 2018, but they went BPA instead. And fundamentally, do you take a QB just because you need one if the prospects that draft year aren't particularly strong? I don't think you force it, but teams don't have the patience to wait.
How would we all be feeling with Herbert at QB in 2021? Probably pretty damn good.
I am interested again.
If a couple dice rolls break our way we could be on the way back. Even if Jones fucks up, we can move on. At least we get to know. That 1 and 7 start last year felt like a sure thing.
This year is anything can happen.
DG hasn't been good and the Barkley pick was bad.
So what?
The season is in play and the draft matters.
Barkley - ( New Window )
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Of all the hilarious things I’ve read on BBI over nearly 25 years — the silliest is that making fun of the GM is out of bounds.
The Giants have a history of lovable losers — Handley, McAdoo, Dave Brown, Cedric Jones, hell Ernie Accorsi had a good decade of being the butt of the joke.
The guy’s put together 3 straight 10 game losers. He’s most certainly in line for some ribbing.
Win some games and everyone will love him.
I'm guessing this is in reference to me.
I wasn’t referring to you per se. I was referring to a certain other poster who gets bothered by mean nicknames for the GM.
How would we all be feeling with Herbert at QB in 2021? Probably pretty damn good.
That's kind of where I was going with that. After Herbert went back to school, 2019 QB draft class was pretty weak. So on paper, you had a 2018 that was looking pretty strong and a 2020 that was projecting to look pretty good. I think if Herbert declared in 2019 he would have been the pick.
So if you need a QB, I don't think you force the pick if you don't love prospect or class. You can always attempt to acquire picks or draft BPA and then move up with some collateral for a future draft year. Giants with Manning, Jets with Darnold, 9ers this year.
Now obviously that doesn't always work out (Darnold/Trubisky), but I'd rather the franchise make moves like that than just kind of see what falls into their lap.
Just a fundamental difference in what seems reactionary vs proactive.
I'm not trying to re-write history here, I hope Jones is very fruitful for us. I just don't agree with 'if you need a QB you ignore BPA and grab the QB philosophy'. It was a need for a few years, not just 2019 and I doubt Jones was their highest rated QB over the past few years.
They needed a QB in 2018, but they went BPA instead. And fundamentally, do you take a QB just because you need one if the prospects that draft year aren't particularly strong? I don't think you force it, but teams don't have the patience to wait.
They went SPA instead - Safest Player Available.
Barkley was probably the best RB, but he wasn't the best player.
No, not really. They passed on a QB in 2018 because they believed they still had one in Eli.
They took a QB in 2019, and even reached for him at #6, because they became desperate when they realized Eli was likely not lasting much longer, if at all. In fact, they benched him after 2 game in 2019.
Barkley was taken because the GM of this franchise didn’t know he needed to rebuild, Barkley looked like a great RB, and a safe pick so just go with that like it’s 1935 and move on...
I said before that draft I thought he was Reggie Bush. I still think he is, more or less. People talk about him like he was a certainty to be the best RB in team history - he isn't even close to Tiki. I say that confidently.
The Giants analysis of 2018 prospects seems really poor. I'm a huge advocate of going to get your guy - I never criticized the Giants allegedly selecting Jones higher than the draft guys projected. But you better be right and the Giants simply haven't been.
I don't think that's a fair statement. Coming into the draft is it not fair to say that the top 3-4 guys in 2018 were ranked higher than Jones was in 2019?
If so, I don't buy 'they hated the 2018 class but loved Jones' because the '19 prospects weren't that good. I think the simpler explanation is they had Eli in '18 and then realized they needed a QB in 19.
I'm not advocating they should have taken Rosen or Darnold in '18, that would have ended poorly.
Let me explain something to you. I have been a PSU fan for 30+ years. I follow their recruiting very closely and even saw Barkley play in high school at White Hall (Matt Millen went there, too).
Where I went to high school - Phillipsburg, NJ - we used to play White Hall in the old East Penn Conference. They were a big rival. So if anything, I have a strong bias FOR SB. So this suggestion that I may have an anti-SB bias is horse manure.
Barkley was the most stylish RB in the 2019 draft. But was he so much better than a player like Nick Chubb? Chubb was a better north-south runner than Barkley and that has continued in the pros.
You can write it a thousand times, but I will NEVER believe taking ANY RB at #2 is the smartest decision. The RB position is now the most fungible position in the NFL. So that by itself completely cancels out the notion that we took the best player in the draft because a RB can't be the best available player at #2. It's an ancient way of looking at football. And unfortunately too many people keep subscribing to it.