|
|
|
| Quote: |
“New England was good,” an evaluator said. “It cost a lot of money, but they had to do something to try to turn it around there. I put the Giants in the same category. They spent too much money relative to what they acquired, but they needed to acquire what they acquired Some teams operate from a position of strength during free agency. The 2021 Giants were not one of them. Leonard Williams held the leverage in negotiations as a player the team acquired via trade, helping him land a three-year, $63 million contract to rank behind only Joey Bosa, Myles Garrett and Aaron Donald among defensive linemen. The Giants paid $18 million a year for Kenny Golladay when the next receiver in free agency earned $12.5 million. They paid $13 million a year for cornerback Adoree Jackson, who actually got a raise over what he was earning from Tennessee, the team that cut him. “What they paid was ridiculous to me, but who they got wasn’t a problem,” an exec said. “They had trouble getting receivers to go there, so the Golladay deal is kind of what happens. I don’t know how they got Adoree Jackson to $13 million. Adoree is talented but has been hurt a lot. Kyle Rudolph can be a good signing because they can go to 12 personnel now and be really good.” Giants owner John Mara acknowledged the high prices, joking that critics can call the team stupid, but not cheap. “The Adoree Jackson deal was inexcusable,” an exec said. “And then they went and jeopardized their future cap by converting guys to get all these deals done. The potential for disaster is high.” The team is betting on Golladay, who missed 11 games last season, and Jackson, who missed 18 games over the past two seasons. Rudolph is 31 and missed four games last season after a five-year run without missing any. “Going into free agency, the cap was lower and a lot of teams did not have much ammo,” an evaluator said. “The longer you waited, the bigger the bargains were going to be. Adoree Jackson was late in the process. He should have been a bargain, and he wasn’t. That was questionable.” |
Quote:
In comment 15207067 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
what would you guys have done? Same roster, same cap, same everything only its the night before free agency and go...
i've said on this and other threads what i would have done. i would have accepted that the team is rebuilding and it would take another couple seasons of gradual improvement primarily through the draft. i would have wrote jones off as a bad pick and worked on improving the remaining part of the roster with the draft. i would have already extended peppers.
LOL. So, you would extend Peppers based on one year but written off Jones as a failed pick? I'm really fucking glad you aren't making the moves.
how'd not extending williams work out? i'd either extend peppers (my preference) or trade him
and yes about jones. i think he stinks
What's Peppers' extension look like?
That's one of Gettleman's failings - he falls in full bloom love and it makes him do stupid things.
Injury prone is a problem....but was Galloday injury prone....or just injured?
Mara played it cool....but he knows where the cap is going
Quote:
In comment 15207075 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
In comment 15207067 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
what would you guys have done? Same roster, same cap, same everything only its the night before free agency and go...
i've said on this and other threads what i would have done. i would have accepted that the team is rebuilding and it would take another couple seasons of gradual improvement primarily through the draft. i would have wrote jones off as a bad pick and worked on improving the remaining part of the roster with the draft. i would have already extended peppers.
LOL. So, you would extend Peppers based on one year but written off Jones as a failed pick? I'm really fucking glad you aren't making the moves.
how'd not extending williams work out? i'd either extend peppers (my preference) or trade him
and yes about jones. i think he stinks
just stop watching the giants for about 5 yrs if you think Jones stinks because thats how long it will take to fix that problem. Glad you're still holding on to that pre-draft narrative on Jones.
That being said, it is important that we look at these risks accurately. And they have been hamstrung by dead cap space too much recently, they've built too much through FA recently and it hasn't really worked. Far too often it seems like people's own optimism about the team and the moves turns into them remembering moves as less risky than they actually were. Or better decisions than they actually were.
While we have greatly increased our chances this year if Jones and Barkley are not ready to step up to their draft status the we aren't really in the best position to have a winning team because we have essentially overspent on supporting players meaning to win with this core we need players to be both elite and cheap which you don't put yourself in great position to get if you spend excessively to be mediocre...
The 2018-2020 drafts will be bigger drivers of team success than this off-season, though.
I think the Giants, for the first time under Gettleman, have built a roster with playoff potential (and not bullshit NFC East playoff potential). I wouldn't bet they'd get there, but I can see a path to a ten win team.
I *think* Judge is a better leader than Shurmur and McAdoo. Maybe he's not, and this year should be really telling. If Judge is the well prepared, emotionally intelligent, and accountable coach he appeared to be last year, the Giants are in good hands.
That's not exactly true. The Giants may have saved slightly on AAV by buying during a down year for the cap, but they're taking the savings this year for every single one of those contracts. The implied inflation of an increasing cap is already baked into every one of those contracts, in some cases, to a dramatic extent.
That doesn't make the contracts bad per se, but the Giants didn't really gain any future bargains by signing players this year when the market was deflated. If you look at this year's signings with year one removed, those future cap hits are probably going to look exactly like what a 2022 FA's AAV is going to be.
fewer otherwise desirable FA reach FA?
The market setting cases ( granted over buys) are able to be quite high relative to the current averages?
Immutable laws of the Dutch Tulip market mentality that overtakes 22 of 32 owners each year??
Quote:
In comment 15207129 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15207075 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
In comment 15207067 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
what would you guys have done? Same roster, same cap, same everything only its the night before free agency and go...
i've said on this and other threads what i would have done. i would have accepted that the team is rebuilding and it would take another couple seasons of gradual improvement primarily through the draft. i would have wrote jones off as a bad pick and worked on improving the remaining part of the roster with the draft. i would have already extended peppers.
LOL. So, you would extend Peppers based on one year but written off Jones as a failed pick? I'm really fucking glad you aren't making the moves.
how'd not extending williams work out? i'd either extend peppers (my preference) or trade him
and yes about jones. i think he stinks
just stop watching the giants for about 5 yrs if you think Jones stinks because thats how long it will take to fix that problem. Glad you're still holding on to that pre-draft narrative on Jones.
why would i stop watching because i think jones stinks? kent graham stunk. dave brown stunk. danny kanell (sorry danny) stunk. there were plenty of bad qbs this team has. i watched them all. every game. just because i think the qb stinks doesn't mean i'm not a fan
2023 is where a lot of decisions land, and if these primary players are cut you have earmarked a lot of money on players not on your roster. Worst case scenarios:
- Williams 7.5M dead money
- Golladay 10.2M dead money
- Ryan 1.5M dead money
- Jackson 4.5M dead money
I imagine the rough design is run this core group, including Jones, Barkley, etc. through 2022, with 2022 being where you expect to deep in the mix.
every single qb expert said Jones had a good last yr. Every single one. Not some fan looking up TD numbers.
Quote:
Is a pre-draft (read Sy's scouting report) and post-draft (performance speaks for itself) narrative.
every single qb expert said Jones had a good last yr. Every single one. Not some fan looking up TD numbers.
sure keep telling yourself this.. but it is not reality.
There is a lot of doubt around the league about Jones. Appropriately so. And there are no QB experts that think Jones is close to a finished product. It is true many do see potential. Heading into Year 3 it is time to convert potential into stardom or it will be time to move on from this kid.
fewer otherwise desirable FA reach FA?
The market setting cases ( granted over buys) are able to be quite high relative to the current averages?
Immutable laws of the Dutch Tulip market mentality that overtakes 22 of 32 owners each year??
Bingo. Which is why it isn't wise to invest into the very top end of the FA market with the big exception being this year. Many teams just weren't in the position to spend. I'm glad we recognized this and made it work where we could.
There's a reason Bill dropped the hammer this year in FA spending. Competition was much lower than a usual year. Got lucky that they were just happening to bite the bullet last y ear for the future, but some guys get all the breaks!
Quote:
Is a pre-draft (read Sy's scouting report) and post-draft (performance speaks for itself) narrative.
every single qb expert said Jones had a good last yr. Every single one. Not some fan looking up TD numbers.
How do you feel about QBR as a neutral statistical measurement?
Quote:
In comment 15207234 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Is a pre-draft (read Sy's scouting report) and post-draft (performance speaks for itself) narrative.
every single qb expert said Jones had a good last yr. Every single one. Not some fan looking up TD numbers.
How do you feel about QBR as a neutral statistical measurement?
I thought your standard was kiloTDs?
Quote:
In comment 15206859 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Because they have let the solid DT walk (proven by the fact that that player went onto have a successful career with the other team) while the free agent the Giants signed is often off of the team in a couple of years.
So the Giants let the good player walk and cut the player they signed.
Look, not to sound like a dick, but I'm pretty confident I'm on the right side of this argument. If the Giants roster wasn't such a train wreck, we wouldn't be signing all of these free agents. When we started this offseason, this roster wasn't better than when Gettleman got here. You could argue it was worse.
There is no doubt the Giants have drafted poorly and that’s why they are in this mess. But you can deal with the salary cap implications by structuring contracts that don’t bite you 3 years later and by chasing over rated free agents based on need (did anyone really think Solder was that good?) and giving them large signing bonuses that are amortized over 5 yrs.
And as for 2nd round tackles, other than Linval Joseph in 2010, who else has left to go on to have a good career post Giants?
Linval Joseph leaves and they draft Marvin Austin in the 2nd round (not much of a career). So they draft Jonathan Hankins in the 2nd round (went onto become a full-time starter with Colts and Raiders). So they fill his spot with Snacks Harrison. Snacks gets traded and then draft Dexter Lawrence the following offseason (the immediate assumption was he would replace Snacks, but Tomlinson took over the NT position).
Austin stunk, Hankins was not worth the money he received and Snacks turned out to be a bad locker room presence. Just because these players leave, doesn’t not mean you want to keep them. That is the definition of constantly trying to upgrade the roster, regardless of where they were drafted.