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| Mara said the entire building “thinks the world” of Jones, which echoes the sentiments of general manager Dave Gettleman and head coach Joe Judge. But Mara took things a step further, saying Jones has the potential to follow the same path as Eli Manning. In other words, Mara expects multiple titles out of Jones. “Yes he does [have what it takes],” Mara said. “I can say that without any hesitation. . . I don’t see why [he couldn’t win multiple titles]. If we put the right pieces around him.” |
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| “I don’t know how [Mara] can say that definitively based on what we’ve seen from DJ his first couple of years. I mean, he’s got 39 turnovers in two seasons starting. It’s hard to win consistently when your quarterback is turning the ball over 20 times a year,” Canty said. “I just don’t know how you make that statement.” Canty said that although the Giants may like Jones the person, there’s absolutely no reason to believe he can have any level of success in the NFL. “Based on the production — or lack thereof — there’s no way you can have conviction that Daniel Jones is your guy going forward,” Canty said. |
Saying he's already shown enough that you can believe he can win multiple titles is the "hot take" in this equation.
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They also seem to be inescapable. Manning was the Giants’ QB for fifteen years, and Jones’s immediate predecessor. Similarities to Eli are often cited as part of DJ’s appeal to the organization. I think that’s stupid and irrelevant, but it’s not going away.
Eli was a pretty good regular season QB who had two magical playoff runs. His career was unique and bizarre, and probably shouldn’t be used as a yardstick for anyone else, including Daniel Jones. Plus Jones is a completely different player, with both capabilities and limitations that Manning didn’t have. Reporters keep framing the dumb comparisons though, and Mara went down the rabbit hole when he could have just said “Eli was Eli. We want Daniel to be Daniel, not Eli.”
Here's the odd thing about comparing Jones (or anyone else) to Eli, IMO - for all the similarities that Eli and DJ seem to have, the one thing that Jones has not yet demonstrated is the magic in big moments that Eli had. In fairness, Eli hadn't really yet demonstrated that yet at the same stage in his career that Jones is in, so I'm not suggesting that DJ doesn't have that magic, just that we couldn't possibly know yet.
What makes that important, IMO, is that if you take that big game magic away from Eli's resume, his is not a career that anyone would especially want their young QB to emulate. Eli was guilty of too many turnovers, had more than his fair share of bonehead plays, and often felt like a slight notch below the best QBs in the game. But he had those two incredible SB runs, and in those eight games, was the best QB on the planet.
If DJ never displays that same flair for the big stage and elevating his performance in those spots, but otherwise replicates Eli's career exactly, I don't think his career would be considered a success.
And I think something like "clutchiness" (for lack of a better term, stolen from old Fire Joe Morgan posts) is so unpredictable and fluky that you can't just assume that it will be a common trait among two players who seem identical in every other way.
Eli had the "it" factor that made him better than what his overall career record and statistics would suggest. If he had lacked that, the rest of the resume isn't nearly as impressive.
And here's the thing about that "it" factor: most players DON'T have it, which is what made Eli so special. It's far more likely that DJ doesn't have it than it is that he does. And if DJ doesn't have that, it doesn't mean he'll be a failure, but it does mean we should be careful about simply hoping for him to replicate Eli's career.
Jones unfortunately hasn't showing anything remotely like this.
We've covered this real estate quite a bit, but, yes, Jones did have some good games his rookie year. But those were offset by some poor moments. Which is to be expected for a rookie. And that showed up in a QBR that was ordinary versus the rest of the league.
And, yes, 2021 is a critical year for sure.
My mind isn't made up, but I wouldn't buy anymore Jones stock. I would suggest one more year of holding the stock.
I will buy some stock because management has invested heavily in this asset. BW, Jones throws an accurate deep and is comfortable throwing to covered receivers because that is all he has know as a professional and college player.I am not projecting a new skill. This is 9ne he has demonstrated consistently. If they get him another weapon, this offense is possibly as efficient as the Rams were with a healthy Gurley a few years ago.
That's a big proclamation saying we are going to be the Rams, circa 2017-18.
Yes, Jones does seem to throw a good deep ball and he's a good runner on the edge. I don't know if the turnovers are just part of his DNA or something that can be coached out of him.
I'm more concerned about his ability to consistently read an NFL defense and his pocket acumen. He may be smart in the academic sense, but I don't trust his football IQ at this point. He doesn't seem that bright on a football field - yet.
And here is what gets missed about Jones - the more video/tape there is on him, the more DCs are going to dictate terms. So Jones is going to have to prove that he can handle the adjustments and execute. That's why I'm with Terps that we should just run Jones more on designed runs and take the risk. He seems to be a big strong guy who can turn the corner. So let's try to milk that...
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Canty isn't a moron. He just knows how the sports talk world works. It's fed by the vapors of hysterics and hot takes. Fans lap it up.
Saying that Daniel Jones isn't the guy yet is the opposite of a hot take. It's literally the consensus around the league and a pretty fair take.
Saying he's already shown enough that you can believe he can win multiple titles is the "hot take" in this equation.
ESPN, in general, is very down on Jones. Maybe I'm biased but I don't see Jones as a worse QB than what was shown by Jalen Hurts. Can someone objectively (so obviously not Go Terps) convince me that I'm wrong?
Tiki
Shockey
Burress
Toomer
combine that with a solid line and the offense should be better. You can only blame play calling for so long.
Eli bothered me because of the bad decisions.
It wasn't until the 2007 playoffs that I turned around on Eli and even then sometimes after that the bad decision making still came out, but I learned to appreciate what Eli was trying to do and why he made that decision (some times), but either way the 2007 playoffs gave Eli the benefit of the doubt in my mind.
Will Daniel Jones, who has a much worse OL and much worse skill players than Eli (in year 2 for both of them at least) get the chance to have his "2007 playoffs" for doubters like me?
Not sure, but he has been underwhelming and it may be poor OL, poor skill players, and poor scheme, but he makes poor decisions too and he has not yet earned the benefit of the doubt for me, much like Eli didn't for me until the end of his 4th season.
These are almost my exact same opinions..
Can we please also stop with the Eli comparisons, as there is none to be made for multiple reasons (1) They are not at all the same type of qb - Eli had quality arm talent and navigated the pocket very well (even when he was down), also running a quality 2 minute drill while Jones has an average NFL arm and has not shown he can do what Eli did in the pocket or in the 2 minute drill (this are just a few of the differences) (2) Eli was a highly regarded near consensus number 1 pick, who elevated an average Ole Miss team in the always tough SEC, Jones was a moderately productive qb at a non traditional football school, who struggled heavily against better competition and many questioned whether he was even a first round talent (3) the game is completely different today than it was in 2004. There are several other differences. Outside of a similar appearance and demeanor, they are completely different qbs. I'd say Joe Burrow is a better comparison to Eli (navigate the pocket well, sees the field well, not a speedster outside of the pocket, and has a quality NFL arm) than Jones.
We all hope Jones evolves into a top 10 NFL qb, but questioning whether he has the ability and the history as we've seen it is not unreasonable.
Jones unfortunately hasn't showing anything remotely like this.
In Jones first NFL game he literally carried this team to a win over TB.
Conviction on a QB happens way before they even step on the field. Most teams in the NFL have conviction during the draft process and that is how their mind is made up on whether or not he will be the guy. It's an opinion, it isn't base on the results yet.
So, yes, Jones has a ton to prove. But the conviction has always been there from NYF front office and especially Judge now, who actually goes above and beyond anything that DG has said about Jones.
Conviction on a QB happens way before they even step on the field. Most teams in the NFL have conviction during the draft process and that is how their mind is made up on whether or not he will be the guy. It's an opinion, it isn't base on the results yet.
So, yes, Jones has a ton to prove. But the conviction has always been there from NYF front office and especially Judge now, who actually goes above and beyond anything that DG has said about Jones.
we don't know what Judge feels about Jones. We only know what he has said.
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but it's BS to me that he says "i don't know how you can have conviction on the guy"
Conviction on a QB happens way before they even step on the field. Most teams in the NFL have conviction during the draft process and that is how their mind is made up on whether or not he will be the guy. It's an opinion, it isn't base on the results yet.
So, yes, Jones has a ton to prove. But the conviction has always been there from NYF front office and especially Judge now, who actually goes above and beyond anything that DG has said about Jones.
we don't know what Judge feels about Jones. We only know what he has said.
Time and time again. With unsolicited praise at almost every turn.
In fact, if you believe, as some of you do, that he is lying about Jones, you must believe that he is lying always and about everything.
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In comment 15209829 ryanmkeane said:
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but it's BS to me that he says "i don't know how you can have conviction on the guy"
Conviction on a QB happens way before they even step on the field. Most teams in the NFL have conviction during the draft process and that is how their mind is made up on whether or not he will be the guy. It's an opinion, it isn't base on the results yet.
So, yes, Jones has a ton to prove. But the conviction has always been there from NYF front office and especially Judge now, who actually goes above and beyond anything that DG has said about Jones.
we don't know what Judge feels about Jones. We only know what he has said.
Time and time again. With unsolicited praise at almost every turn.
In fact, if you believe, as some of you do, that he is lying about Jones, you must believe that he is lying always and about everything.
Lol.. coaches say what they feel they have to in order to get the best out of the team and keep perceptions up. Period. It's not lying. It's coach-speak. Judge is not your ten year old son talking about who ate the cookies. Get fucking real.
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In comment 15209836 Producer said:
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In comment 15209829 ryanmkeane said:
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but it's BS to me that he says "i don't know how you can have conviction on the guy"
Conviction on a QB happens way before they even step on the field. Most teams in the NFL have conviction during the draft process and that is how their mind is made up on whether or not he will be the guy. It's an opinion, it isn't base on the results yet.
So, yes, Jones has a ton to prove. But the conviction has always been there from NYF front office and especially Judge now, who actually goes above and beyond anything that DG has said about Jones.
we don't know what Judge feels about Jones. We only know what he has said.
Time and time again. With unsolicited praise at almost every turn.
In fact, if you believe, as some of you do, that he is lying about Jones, you must believe that he is lying always and about everything.
Lol.. coaches say what they feel they have to in order to get the best out of the team and keep perceptions up. Period. It's not lying. It's coach-speak. Judge is not your ten year old son talking about who ate the cookies. Get fucking real.
You totally have never listened to him speak, have you. Or maybe what he says can't get past the words you created for him already in your head.
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In comment 15209837 Bill L said:
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In comment 15209836 Producer said:
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In comment 15209829 ryanmkeane said:
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but it's BS to me that he says "i don't know how you can have conviction on the guy"
Conviction on a QB happens way before they even step on the field. Most teams in the NFL have conviction during the draft process and that is how their mind is made up on whether or not he will be the guy. It's an opinion, it isn't base on the results yet.
So, yes, Jones has a ton to prove. But the conviction has always been there from NYF front office and especially Judge now, who actually goes above and beyond anything that DG has said about Jones.
we don't know what Judge feels about Jones. We only know what he has said.
Time and time again. With unsolicited praise at almost every turn.
In fact, if you believe, as some of you do, that he is lying about Jones, you must believe that he is lying always and about everything.
Lol.. coaches say what they feel they have to in order to get the best out of the team and keep perceptions up. Period. It's not lying. It's coach-speak. Judge is not your ten year old son talking about who ate the cookies. Get fucking real.
You totally have never listened to him speak, have you. Or maybe what he says can't get past the words you created for him already in your head.
It doesn't matter. You do not know what he says in private and you do not know what he thinks. You only know what he says in public statements. You may never know what he thinks of Jones right now. If Jones wins championships I am sure he will love him. If Jones sucks in 2021 and they ditch him, I am sure Judge was more ambivalent than his public facing statements indicate. If you believe what coaches and GMs say in public facing comments about their players you are gullible. They NEVER or RARELY say their players suck even if they believe it. It is their job to keep morale high and demeaning players hurts their value down the road if you seek to trade them.
so you publicly give your guy a positive spin in the meantime.
the time for a real decision was last year picking with tua and herbert on the clock
so you publicly give your guy a positive spin in the meantime.
the time for a real decision was last year picking with tua and herbert on the clock
bingo.. this is a good year too though. But I agree it seems they are fine with Jones this season. I don't necessarily agree with it but it seems to be the case. I think they should still check out the top-5 QBs in case one drops, whcih probably won't happen, or if they fall in love.
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i don't think jones is the guy, but they clearly aren't looking at QB this year with where they are picking and with all the needs on this team they shouldn't be trading up right now
so you publicly give your guy a positive spin in the meantime.
the time for a real decision was last year picking with tua and herbert on the clock
bingo.. this is a good year too though. But I agree it seems they are fine with Jones this season. I don't necessarily agree with it but it seems to be the case. I think they should still check out the top-5 QBs in case one drops, whcih probably won't happen, or if they fall in love.
Considering 5th year option has to be decided after the 2021 season I think the Giants are willing to give him this year with added talent at WR to render a decision. Unless he has a stellar year I could see Giants declining the option because worst case scenario, which would be him breaking out in 2022 not 2021, they can franchise Jones. Similar situation the Jets are facing with Sam Darnold except the Jets are in a position to draft a better QB although he is not without his warts. Why can't Trevor Lawrence be caught with a gas mask?
Those posters repeat it ad nauseum, they create memes and barrage the board trying to say that it is rampant stupidity that should be evident to anyone with ears and eyes.
But when Judge heaps positive things on the QB, even when unsolicited, it is just coach-speak and shouldn't be listened to.
You really can't make up the fact that one poster who talks about "State of the Giants" addresses by Mara as having a tone of weight, completely dismisses positive news coming out.
And it goes back to the question I always have to those one-sided takes - Why?? It should be a simple answer.
I agree that it's a bit disingenuousness to chalk up JJs comments to just being "coachspeak" and to say we don't know if he believes in DJ or not.
However, should DJ prove to be more of a liability than an asset, JJs praise this off-season doesn't preclude him from changing course and being ok with bringing in a new QB.
Those posters repeat it ad nauseum, they create memes and barrage the board trying to say that it is rampant stupidity that should be evident to anyone with ears and eyes.
But when Judge heaps positive things on the QB, even when unsolicited, it is just coach-speak and shouldn't be listened to.
You really can't make up the fact that one poster who talks about "State of the Giants" addresses by Mara as having a tone of weight, completely dismisses positive news coming out.
And it goes back to the question I always have to those one-sided takes - Why?? It should be a simple answer.
Putting aside DG's bad computer joke. I will say you can take negative comments about players more literally than positive comments. Negative comments run counter to the general interest of morale and player valuation. It is more likely the coach means it. Whereas positive comments may just be platitudes. For all we know it is a condition of Judge's employment to be upbeat about Jones.
There's a difference between that and saying whole heartedly that you believe in the guy, which they do.
Has Judge ever criticized a player by name in a press appearance? Yes or no?
If no, why should we take Judge’s comments at face value?
Context is important and not recognizing it makes me wonder what the agenda is
Context is important and not recognizing it makes me wonder what the agenda is
I am pretty sure the *agenda* people have on a sports message board is to state their opinions.
Canty obviously has a vendetta against the Giants or doesn’t proudly wear his blue sunglasses as he should in defending all things Giants. Why is simply not plausible to think all the tds from 2019 will come back and the lower turnovers from 2020 will stay.
We should just say Canty was never good on the field or with the sports media and ignore him forever...
I mean...Jones can throw in tight windows, has wheels, and hangs tough in the pocket. If he can improve on his fumbles...imo he's shown enough to prove he is every bit as good as Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer who have both won championships.
I mean...Jones can throw in tight windows, has wheels, and hangs tough in the pocket. If he can improve on his fumbles...imo he's shown enough to prove he is every bit as good as Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer who have both won championships.
Jones is inaccurate, has lost games due to his inaccuracy on rudimentary throws, and he is easily rattled in the pocket. I am not quite sure what you are watching through those blue tinted glasses.
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has shown "nothing"
I mean...Jones can throw in tight windows, has wheels, and hangs tough in the pocket. If he can improve on his fumbles...imo he's shown enough to prove he is every bit as good as Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer who have both won championships.
Jones is inaccurate, has lost games due to his inaccuracy on rudimentary throws, and he is easily rattled in the pocket. I am not quite sure what you are watching through those blue tinted glasses.
Since you've never said a positive thing about Jones, I'll take everything you say with a sea of salt. inaccurate? He has one of the highest rating for throwing the ball into tight spaces. Back up your statement with examples or stats please.
I mean...Jones can throw in tight windows, has wheels, and hangs tough in the pocket. If he can improve on his fumbles...imo he's shown enough to prove he is every bit as good as Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer who have both won championships.
Is Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer what we hope for in a qb?
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In comment 15210000 Thunderstruck27 said:
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has shown "nothing"
I mean...Jones can throw in tight windows, has wheels, and hangs tough in the pocket. If he can improve on his fumbles...imo he's shown enough to prove he is every bit as good as Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer who have both won championships.
Jones is inaccurate, has lost games due to his inaccuracy on rudimentary throws, and he is easily rattled in the pocket. I am not quite sure what you are watching through those blue tinted glasses.
Since you've never said a positive thing about Jones, I'll take everything you say with a sea of salt. inaccurate? He has one of the highest rating for throwing the ball into tight spaces. Back up your statement with examples or stats please.
Daniel Jones was 31st in completion pct. Does that sound accurate to you? He literally lost two games this season boning two easy throws at the end of the game.
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In comment 15210000 Thunderstruck27 said:
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has shown "nothing"
I mean...Jones can throw in tight windows, has wheels, and hangs tough in the pocket. If he can improve on his fumbles...imo he's shown enough to prove he is every bit as good as Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer who have both won championships.
Jones is inaccurate, has lost games due to his inaccuracy on rudimentary throws, and he is easily rattled in the pocket. I am not quite sure what you are watching through those blue tinted glasses.
Since you've never said a positive thing about Jones, I'll take everything you say with a sea of salt. inaccurate? He has one of the highest rating for throwing the ball into tight spaces. Back up your statement with examples or stats please.
here is something nice, and I have said it before:
1. He has excellent long speed.
2. There is still a chance he could be really good. But not enough of a chance that we shouldn't consider adding a prospect.
Unless Canty was one of the people who favored Haskins, what would be the point of that?
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What he thinks of Haskins who everyone wanted us to take !
Unless Canty was one of the people who favored Haskins, what would be the point of that?
hmmm... what could he possibly be implying??
I mean...Jones can throw in tight windows, has wheels, and hangs tough in the pocket. If he can improve on his fumbles...imo he's shown enough to prove he is every bit as good as Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer who have both won championships.
True but in this era they would never win ...
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has shown "nothing"
I mean...Jones can throw in tight windows, has wheels, and hangs tough in the pocket. If he can improve on his fumbles...imo he's shown enough to prove he is every bit as good as Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer who have both won championships.
True but in this era they would never win ...
Huh?? "In this era"?? We almost saw the Niners win in this era with a similar approach. The Broncos did it in Manning's final season.
I have no idea where the impression that every winning team is a superior offense and top defenses aren't winning is coming from.
Why? Had he said something specifically favoring the selection of Haskins over Jones? Does Haskins flaming out make Jones any better of a selection if he were, to say, last a year or two more and require replacement?
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has shown "nothing"
I mean...Jones can throw in tight windows, has wheels, and hangs tough in the pocket. If he can improve on his fumbles...imo he's shown enough to prove he is every bit as good as Joe Flacco or Trent Dilfer who have both won championships.
True but in this era they would never win ...
Says who? You?
Before the previous SB you had Garoppolo and Goff come awfully close to winning in two different years. And prior to that Nick Foles did win one.
The problem with the him getting the turnovers under control is that it coincided with his playmaking ability seemingly vanishing as well. Now, there are enough other factors that it's impossible to declare that his playmaking (read: throwing touchdowns) declined BECAUSE he cut down on turnovers, but that remains a possibility until he proves otherwise.
DJ's upside as a playmaker is obvious - he showed plenty in his rookie year, but also turned the ball over way more than is acceptable. And in year two, he made an enormous improvement in the turnover department, but became anemic in the scoring department.
Hopefully, he can figure out how to be an effective QB scoring TDs without putting the ball on the turf quite so often - all he has to do is take the best parts of his first two seasons and combine them. Easier said than done, I suspect, but he's going to get his chance to do it, and he should have a more favorable offense to work with.
He could have said "I don't see why he can't win several MVPs" or "I don't see why he can't make it to Canton" or "I don't see why he can't go down as the greatest QB of all-time." He's not going to put a limit on the kid.
But just because he doesn't see a reason why he can't, doesn't mean that it's likely that he will.
If I were a betting man, I'm betting the under on 2 championships for Daniel Jones. I haven't seen enough from him to say that he's on track to be a star QB. And I think that's what Canty is saying.
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In comment 15210036 NYGNYY said:
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What he thinks of Haskins who everyone wanted us to take !
Unless Canty was one of the people who favored Haskins, what would be the point of that?
hmmm... what could he possibly be implying??
Well Hillary I guess I have to spell it out for you.
Clearly Haskins was preferred over DJ by Most and has been Cut in First Year. I don’t see a little Smirk on his face now like on Draft Day when Giants didn’t Select him.
While DJ played decent with shitty OLine, RB, TE’s and WR’s. Ranking last in the league.
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In comment 15210100 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15210036 NYGNYY said:
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What he thinks of Haskins who everyone wanted us to take !
Unless Canty was one of the people who favored Haskins, what would be the point of that?
hmmm... what could he possibly be implying??
Well Hillary I guess I have to spell it out for you.
Clearly Haskins was preferred over DJ by Most and has been Cut in First Year. I don’t see a little Smirk on his face now like on Draft Day when Giants didn’t Select him.
While DJ played decent with shitty OLine, RB, TE’s and WR’s. Ranking last in the league.
Thanks for the spelling lesson. And what does that have to do with Chris Canty?
Thanks for the spelling lesson. And what does that have to do with Chris Canty?
Canty was one of the (MANY) talking heads really pushing Haskins to the Giants. IIRC he said something like they "should sprint to the podium" lol