CORNERBACK
Format includes a quick position overview, my grading scale and what the number means, the summary and final grade from my final report on my top 15, a quick additional note on the player, and my ranks 16-30 with grades only.
*I AM NOT DOING NFL COMPARISONS
QUICK POSITION OVERVIEW
The signing of James Bradberry from last year’s free agency period was one of the best signings we have seen this franchise make in a long time. Having a reliable, quality presence on the outside week to week means more to a defense than most understand. Scheming around that is so much more opportunistic and with the versatility at safety, this defense has a lot of options. The other outside corner role was a revolving door in 2020, as DeAndre Baker was released. The signing of Adoree Jackson in this year’s free agency period is a huge net-gain for this defense. Now they have two reliable guys on the outside, an up-and-coming nickel in Darnay Holmes, and adequate depth in Isaac Yiadom, Ryan Lewis, and Quincy Wilson. Sam Beal remains an unknown. One can make the argument that it is a thin group when looking at the future. You always want to have 1-2 quality backups on the outside because they do see the field plenty and you’re an injury away from a glaring hole that a good opposing offense can torch.
GRADING SCALE
90+ All Pro Projection
85+: Pro Bowl Projection
81-84: 1st rounder – should be able to play right away
79-80: 2nd rounder – Should be able to rotate right away – Year 2 starter
77-78: 3rd rounder – Should be able to rotate by end of rookie year – Year 2/3 starter
74-76: Early Day 3 – Special Teams – Future backup/possible starter
71-73: Mid Day 3 – Special Teams – Future backup / gamble starter
68-70: Late Day 3 – Back end of roster / Practice Squad / Development guy
65-67: Preferred UDFA
60-64: Undrafted FA
TOP 15 GRADES AND ANALYSIS
1. Patrick Surtain II / Alabama / 6’2-202
Grade: 85
Summary: Junior entry from Plantation, Florida. Three-year starter that began his career as a rare true freshman starter at cornerback when looking back at the Nick Saban era. He went on to start 38 straight games. Ended his career as a 1st Team All American, SEC Defensive Player of the Year, and finalist for the Thorpe, Bednarik, Nagurski, and Lott Awards respectively. Surtain is the son of former NFL cornerback Patrick Surtain. Like his father, the young pedigree plays with outstanding strength and aggression. He has the size and physical brand that can take over and dominate receivers on the outside. Even though there are some deep movement and tracking issues, he is a starting caliber cornerback right now because of how advanced he is with techniques and how consistent of a presence he provides. He is better in zone than he is man, but he can fit into any scheme and play week 1.
*Prior to the Jackson signing, Surtain II was one of five guys I had pegged to NYG. He is an ideal fit for the scheme and there was a hole on the opposite side of Bradberry. Add in the fact his grade met the value of #11, I really thought this would be the direction they would lean toward. I still think there is a chance it happens, but obviously less likely. Surtain II has a couple issues with the deep ball that concern me a bit, but he is so good in every other area. He is going to be very good.
2. Jaycee Horn / South Carolina / 6’1-205
Grade: 85
Summary: Junior entry from Alpharetta, Georgia. Three-year starter that earned 2nd Team All SEC honors in 2020. Opted out of the 2020 season after 7 games. On a short list of true freshmen that have started at South Carolina. Some of the other names include Stephon Gilmore (Patriots), JaDaveon Clowney (Titans), and Bryan Edwards (Raiders). Horn, from day one, has been an impressive and important part to the Gamecocks defense. He plays a physical game, capable of taking on a big possession receiver and beating him to the ball. While there are some concerns with his turn and run ability, there is enough he can do, notably in a zone heavy scheme, that can make a big difference. The ball skills, instincts, and downhill explosion will make him a starter early in his career.
*The single best performance I have seen out of any corner in recent years was the one Horn put out against Auburn last fall. I have no quarrels with anyone that has him at CB1, him and Surtain II are equally very good. Horn shows more ability in man coverage and I think his upside is higher. If he evolves more like he did over the past 2 years, we may be looking at one of the top 3 or 4 corners in football.
3. Caleb Farley / Virginia Tech / 6’1-207
Grade: 81
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Maiden, North Carolina. A two-year starter that earned 1st Team All ACC honors in 2019 after leading the conference in pass break ups while adding 4 interceptions. He opted out of the 2020 season. Farley was a high school quarterback that initially tried his hand at wide receiver in 2017 before tearing his ACL, leading to a redshirt. He came back in 2018, made the transition to cornerback, and started the next two seasons. Farley’s top shelf height, length, and long speed make him a very attractive prospect for any scheme in the NFL. He can blanket the opposition’s targets with both size and speed in addition to possessing receiver-caliber ball skills. The glaring issue is the fact that he only played in 23 career college games, with his 2019 being cut short because of a nerve issue in his back that later needed a procedure. There will need to be extra medical screening done here, but his tape and tools pass all the tests.
*I never had Farley in the running for CB1 in this class, nor did I ever see him as a top 20 guy. Still a very good prospect and 1st round talent though. He has the tools, a case can be made he is earlier on the progression scale than others, and he showed plenty of playmaking skills. Farley simply has too many question marks for me to “love” him. Medical and small area movement. Still can be a starter in year one I think.
4. Ifeati Melifonwu / Syracuse / 6’3-212
Grade: 80
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from South Grafton, Massachusetts. Two-year starter that was 2nd Team All ACC in 2020, the only year in which he played every game. He led the team with 17 pass break ups over the past two years combined and showed a safety’s type impact on the running game. Melifonwu is dripping with talent, much like his brother did coming out of Connecticut in 2017 when he was a 2nd round pick of the Raiders. The younger brother has the kind of size and speed for the position that is hard to find when trying to connect it to a player with an actual cornerback skill set. He attacks the ball with tremendous precision and accuracy, plays a physical brand, and is just scratching the surface. If he takes in NFL coaching and cleans up some simple but vital techniques, he can be a menace on the outside. High upside player that needs work.
*I am a bit higher on Melifonwu than most. I think he is a borderline first rounder, partially because of the versatility he can bring to the table. If I were to grade him strictly as a safety, he would be right around here as well. Teams that really value the size at corner are going to be high on him. He is twitchy, agile, and quick which doesn’t usually match up with this height and length. He can do so much in the secondary.
5. Greg Newsome II / Northwestern / 6’0-192
Grade: 79
Summary: Junior entry from Chicago, Illinois. Three-year starter that earned 1st Team All Big 10 honors in 2020. A very fluid and easy moving athlete, Newsome brings the desired height, length, and athleticism to the table that NFL corners need. He can play on the outside and be left alone on an island. His footwork and hip movement look ideal, and he has shown the ability to play with high-level ball skills. Newsome II only started 18 games over his career and there are some inconsistencies across the board. He will get caught looking in the backfield too often and his physical maturity still has a ways to go. He plays weak on contact and will not factor much against the run. He can be a starting corner in time but would be best suited for a situation that brought him along a little slower over the course of the first year or two of his career.
*There is a lot of hype around Newsome II and I think he is going to get drafted somewhere in the 20s. I’m not that far off from that evaluation, but I do question how quick he can make an impact. A few issues in his game are what I saw out of Jeff Okudah in his disappointing year in DET. It takes a few corners multiple years before they’re high quality, and that is the path I see both those guys taking.
6. Aaron Robinson / Central Florida / 6’0-190
Grade: 79
Summary: Fifth year senior from Deerfield Beach, Florida. Began his career at Alabama in 2016 where he played in 13 games. Transferred to Central Florida in 2017 and redshirted. Two-year starter that earned 2nd Team All AAC honors in both 2019 and 2020. Robinson has the pro-caliber foot speed and burst that enables him to stay sticky to his man on all levels of the route tree. He can play the game with his feet rather than getting too grabby with his hands. Robinson has a lot of dog in him. He is always one of the toughest players on the field and he knows it. Even though he needs to control where he gets aggressive and where to gamble, he is the kind of player that elevates the energy of a defense. That doesn’t occur much from cornerbacks. His size may keep him at nickel but he can play both.
*There are some corners that elevate their game with swagger. They are constantly getting in fights, constantly running their mouth. I understand that isn’t an approach for everyone t get behind, but I personally love it. Much prefer that than guys on opposing teams laughing with each other all game and trading jerseys afterward. Robinson hates his opponent every week, and he plays like it. He also has really well-developed technique and footwork. Little gamble here, but I think he is starting in the league within a year or two.
7. Tyson Campbell / Georgia / 6’1-193
Grade: 79
Summary: Junior entry from Plantation, Florida. Three-year starter that was a key part of a loaded Georgia secondary. Campbell was a five-star recruit that developed from athlete with upside to full blown pro-caliber starting corner. His body type fits in exactly with what the league is looking for. His height, length, and speed have the potential to shut the big deep threats down at the next level. He is a light and easy mover with fluid hips and flexible ankles. His ability to seamlessly change direction with this kind of body is rare. Campbell still has a ways to go in his progression when it comes to locating downfield passes, however. His athleticism looks uncomfortable when he is on an island deep. He lost too many 50/50 situations and simply didn’t produce enough to be considered a first rounder, but his upside is that of a starting corner. If his progression path stays on the path he forged over his career, his upside is as good as any at the position in this class.
*Upside-based grade here. There are safer prospects below him with similar grades but this where one can get more subjective with how they stack guys. I saw flashes out of Campbell that I didn’t see from others. His easy turn and run ability, top shelf speed, and size make him an attractive long-term prospect.
8. Paulson Adebo / Stanford / 6’1-198
Grade: 79
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Mansfield, Texas. Two-year starter that earned 1st Team All-Pac 12 honors both seasons. Also earned All American honors in 2019. Opted out of the 2020 season. Adebo was very productive over the course of his short playing career. He was on the field for just 22 games but still walked away with 8 interceptions and 29 pass break ups. This tall, long, and fast cover man has proven receiver-caliber ball skills spread across multiple seasons. He is a try-hard corner that pursues the action hard on all downs, all situations. He is a smart and well-spoken kid that will get the most out of himself. There are a few essential techniques that he will need to clean up, however. He plays really high and it messes with his ability to minimize separation underneath. His tool set is there, he just needs to become more machine-like. High upside talent here that has the tools the NFL wants.
*Adebo was one of the guys I really wanted to watch in 2020. He opted out though and I didn’t want to move him any higher than this even though I do think he can play like a 1st rounder. He had a really impressive Pro Day, and he is a really smart kid + hard worker. He has the tools and shows the ability to make a lot of plays on the ball. He just had a few backpedal and turning issues that, without the 2020 tape to look back on, I’m not currently sure about.
9. Kelvin Joseph / Kentucky / 6’1-192
Grade: 79
Summary: Third year sophomore entry from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Began his career at LSU where he was a rotational backup in 2018 before transferring to Kentucky which forced him to sit out all of 2019. Started 9 games in 2020. Joseph is a smooth and easy mover that has plus-athletic traits attached to a really long frame. His skill set looks NFL ready right now, as he can turn and run as if he were on ice skates on top of showing the ability to play the ball in the air like a receiver. The issue here is a significant lack of experience. He has 9 career starts and played in just 20 games total. High risk, high reward cover man.
*There are a couple guys in the league that have a 1st round grade on Joseph. No arguments against that from me. He is as fluid and fast as they come. The lack of experience increases his risk a ton and I saw a couple red flags when it came to being physical in both coverage and run defense. Nobody would be surprised to see him being the top corner in this class a few years from now.
10. Elijah Molden / Washington / 5’10-190
Grade: 79
Summary: Senior entry from West Linn, Oregon. Two-plus year starter that is a two-time 1st Team All-Pac 12 honoree. Molden was a chess piece for the Washington secondary that can project to multiple positions in the NFL. He has the skill set to be a high-level nickel defender but can also play a free safety type role. He flies around the field without any hesitation. Molden is a true student of the game that is self-made. His tools won’t win any awards, as he falls under the desired lines when it comes to pure size and speed. However, his short area burst and quickness gets him around the action often. Molden is a true leader of the defense type, one that will make players around him better and hide deficiencies via smart and active play.
*There are certain teams that are going to get everything out of this kid. He is blue collar player that is smarter than most prospects coming out. He can wear a lot of hats. I just hope the right coach/scheme gets their hands on him. If he is put into the wrong place, he will be merely average at best.
11. Benjamin St. Juste / Minnesota / 6’3-200
Grade: 77
Summary: Fifth year senior from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Began his career at Michigan and spent two years there. Two-year starter for the Gophers that earned Honorable Mention All-Big 10 honors in 2019. St. Juste fits the mold of corners that many teams want now. He is tall and twitchy with plus-length. He has a nicely developed frame with an easy-moving lower half. St. Juste may not check all the boxes when it comes to long speed, thus he will need protection over the top or play a specific role at the next level. His quality of play has been on a solid and consistent upward trajectory since the start of 2019 and there are intriguing tools here to try and develop.
*St. Juste was really far down the scouting lists that I get to cross check over the summer. When I say far down, I am talking outside of the top 50 (just cornerbacks). I knew he would finish higher than that, but even I was not anticipating him finishing this high. He was one of the first Shrine Bowl recommendations I sent out. Plain and simple, you just don’t get a guy with this kind of agility and balance paired with this height often. It is rare, actually. If he were at a SEC school, we may be talking round 1.
12. Shakur Brown / Michigan State / 5’10-190
Grade: 77
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Stockbridge, Georgia. Two-year starter that broke out in 2020, earning 1st Team All Big 10 honors after he led the FBS in interceptions per game. His 5 picks in just 7 games highlighted his ability to make plays on the ball while also displaying superior sticky coverage potential. Brown isn’t overly big or fast, but he plays hard and will stick the NFL slots naturally. He is a short strider with elite agility. He projects to a starting nickel role in time if he can prove to say healthy and progress his mental game.
*Brown has nickel written all over him. Not just his size, but his movement and sticky-style in coverage underneath. Was his breakout 2020 season real? Or just a product of a short year? He is a tough dude that plays with some attitude and swagger.
13. Eric Stokes / Georgia / 6’1-194
Grade: 77
Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Covington, Georgia. Two-year starter that earned 2nd Team All SEC honors in 2019, 1st Team in 2020. In a crowded secondary with NFL talent all over the place, it was Stokes that led the team in pass break ups in 2019 and interceptions in 2020. The former high school track star developed nicely into his frame that has natural height and length to it. He still needs to add some bulk so he can maintain power positions and balance in traffic against physical pass catchers, but his long speed and easy burst really minimizes the separation receivers can obtain all over the route tree. He will be a dependable man-cover corner capable of playing early in his career with the upside of being a very good number two corner.
*Stokes got put on some radars when he ran a sub 4.35 at the Georgia Pro Day. We already knew he was fast, that wasn’t ever the question. His questions will revolve around physical impact on contact and the ability to anticipate. I just wish I saw a bit more natural flow in his game. If he makes gains in that area, he can be a starter in a similar way to the new NYG starter Adoree Jackson.
14. Asante Samuel Jr / Florida State / 5’10-184
Grade: 77
Summary: Junior entry from Sunrise, Florida. Son of former Super Bowl winning NFL cornerback Asante Samuel. A three-year starter that earned 1st Team All ACC honors in 2020, 3rd Team in 2019. Samuel, like his father, is a ball hawk that can make up for physical shortcomings with his instinctive nature and precise footwork. He broke up 29 passes in 32 games while intercepting another 4. He was a bright spot among the struggling FSU program. Samuel’s lack of size and questionable speed could get him in trouble if left alone against NFL receivers on the outside. He doesn’t always look comfortable down the field and in traffic. However, when it comes to sitting back and diagnosing the action in front of him, Samuel Jr looks NFL-ready. He can be eased into action and is most attractive in a scheme with safety help deep.
*Samuel is going to be a very good nickel. He is a bit scheme-specific, one that favors zone, but for the team that gets him will know that. He could slip into day 3 because of the crazy CB depth in this class. And I bet he makes a year-1 impact.
15. Kary Vincent / LSU / 5’10-185
Grade: 77
Summary: Senior entry from Houston, Texas. Three-year starter that opted out of the 2020 season. Son of former NFL cornerback Kary Vincent Sr. A former high school state champion sprinter that also ran track for the Tigers in college. Vincent may be the fastest defender in the class. His burst, acceleration, and top end speed are all tied together. He plays at a rate faster than everyone else when he knows what he is going after. The issue seems to be that he just doesn’t always mentally click when deciphering route concepts and the passer’s intentions. Vincent was moved around the secondary a ton, seeing a lot of looks at nickel corner and free safety. A team needs to try and develop him at one spot because the tools are good enough to be a big-time factor at the next level. He isn’t a physical player and his instincts aren’t natural, so the nickel spot is likely his best spot where the power-shortcomings won’t hurt as much.
*I had Vincent top 5 in my stack at the start of 2020. His opt out was less than ideal. I don’t want to penalize him for it, but I do have a tendency to push guys ahead of him when I know there are significant instinct-based issues in his game. Vincent will be one of the fastest players in the NFL right away and he made some big plays over his career. He is worth the gamble at some point, the question will be when. Also, you need a strong plan for where he is going in the secondary, as I don’t see the intelligence to man multiple spots.
16. Camryn Bynum / California / 6’0-198: 75
17. Robert Rochell / Central Arkansas / 5’11-195: 75
18. Shaun Wade / Ohio State / 6’1-195: 75
19. Ambry Thomas / Michigan / 6’0-189: 74
20. Keith Taylor / Washington / 6’2-191: 74
21. Thomas Graham Jr / Oregon / 5’11-193: 74
22. DJ Daniel / Georgia / 5’11-183: 72
23. Michael Carter II / Duke / 5’10-190: 72
24. Israel Mukuamu / South Carolina / 6’4-205: 71
25. Trill Williams / Syracuse / 6’1-198: 71
26. Marco Wilson / Florida / 5’11-187: 70
27. Rodarius Williams / Oklahoma State / 6’0-193: 70
28. Bryan Mills / NC Central / 6’1-180: 69
29. Bryce Thompson / Tennessee / 6’0-182: 69
30. Tay Gowan / Central Florida / 6’2-185: 69
NYG APPROACH
This is one of the deepest cornerback groups in recent memory. I still have another 10+ names that I consider draftable. NYG has a strong 1-2-3-4-5 for the 2021 season, maybe top 7 in the NFL if Jackson reaches his previous form now that his knee is 100%. As said earlier, however, that extra depth for the future isn’t there yet. Do you wait until next year and then have to rely on a rookie? Or do you use a day three pick on someone that falls and groom him for a year? I also think some depth and competition for Holmes at nickel would be a benefit to him. While it isn’t a pressing need, you don’t ever want to be poor or lacking depth at corner. If the value is right any point day 3, I think it is a smart investment
You can not like the signing but not liking it because of the draft is a "dumb" reason. You have fair points on Jackson's question marks. But there's no doubt if he is healthy he makes the team better.
Personally, I don't love OR hate the signing. It's a great one if it works out, especially if he contributes to and elevates the return game.
That’s fair. Dumb is a strong word. I don’t think it’s the smart move for the long term. It’s not a move I would of done. But I’m just a fan. I’m not getting paid to make these decisions.
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In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
LOL. Wow.
Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
You're probably right, but they can cut Goff after 2022. This still might be a year early for Detroit to consider a QB. If not, I like Fields or Lance, whichever is there, to go to Carolina. I think they will do so if one lands in their lap, but aren't going to force it.
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In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
LOL. Wow.
Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.
Thank you, Sy'
Phillips, jeez guys, if it ain't clear, I'll try once more: recent medicals do not count for squat when it comes to head trauma history. One jarring tackle he makes, or if his head hits the ground, or if he goes helmet to helmet accidentally, and he could be grounded for 2-4-6-8 weeks: you just cannot know! I get that he (along with Parsons?) likely has the highest upside as an ER, but you are in high risk land (and Parsons with his off field stuff, probably a safer risk to take with the PSU insiders).
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In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
LOL. Wow.
Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.
See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.
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In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
LOL. Wow.
Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.
See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.
It’s not a fact. You don’t need two corners earning 10 mill+ a year. Jackson wasn’t the only free agent Corner available. The Giants could of easily gotten a stop gap corner like Patrick Peterson and still drafted a corner.
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In comment 15210094 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
LOL. Wow.
Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.
See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.
It’s not a fact. You don’t need two corners earning 10 mill+ a year. Jackson wasn’t the only free agent Corner available. The Giants could of easily gotten a stop gap corner like Patrick Peterson and still drafted a corner.
They were going that route until Jackson became available. They pivoted because they like Jackson that much. You may not but they do. Get over it.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
Like Washington who gave 29 year old William Jackson a 3 year $40.5 million dollar contract?
Jacksonville gave 26 year old Shaq Griffin 3 years and $40 million dollars.
Denver gave journeyman 27 year old Ronald Darby a 3 years and $30 millions.
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Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
Like Washington who gave 29 year old William Jackson a 3 year $40.5 million dollar contract?
Jacksonville gave 26 year old Shaq Griffin 3 years and $40 million dollars.
Denver gave journeyman 27 year old Ronald Darby a 3 years and $30 millions.
I wouldn’t have paid 24.5 mil guaranteed for a second corner.
There were a few veteran guys available as stop gaps
Patrick Peterson 1 year 8 million
Xavier Rhodes 1 year 4.7 million
Malcolm Butler 1 year 3.2 million
Sidney Jones 1 year 1.7 million
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In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
LOL. Wow.
Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.
See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.
This is a bunch of bullshit. Did Tampa have two good corners when their secondary was getting torched most of the year? No, their resources were pumped into their pass rush which paid dividends in the playoffs.
The Giants aren’t being sharp pumping a ton of money into the secondary. They just don’t have any quality pass rushers to pay so the money is there to splurge on something.
There was a heavy Giants presence at the Georgia Pro Day, Secondary Coach Jerome Henderson was one of the people in attendance and he personally worked out the Georgia DBs.
3 out of the Top 22 Corners on Sy's board played at Georgia
2 out of the Top 13 Safeties on Sy's board played at Georgia
I know the Secondary seems to be one of the team's strengths at this point, but I would not be surprised if the Giants ended up with a Georgia DB in the draft.
You can not have enough quality CBs. If Surtain is as good as Sy is saying, you've gotta take him if he's there at 11.
There was a heavy Giants presence at the Georgia Pro Day, Secondary Coach Jerome Henderson was one of the people in attendance and he personally worked out the Georgia DBs.
3 out of the Top 22 Corners on Sy's board played at Georgia
2 out of the Top 13 Safeties on Sy's board played at Georgia
I know the Secondary seems to be one of the team's strengths at this point, but I would not be surprised if the Giants ended up with a Georgia DB in the draft.
I do think NYG will like the Georgia DBs, notably day 3 safety Mark Webb. He is another Logan Ryan
But I'll be honest, I think the heavy presence was there to see Ojulari, a candidate for #11.
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It's interesting how certain people seem to be in love with Horn. He was generally considered the #3 CB before the Farley injury news, but even then you saw a few people say "I just love his style of play, he could easily end up the best CB in the class". It'll be really interesting to see how those top 3 CBs perform at the next level.
There was a heavy Giants presence at the Georgia Pro Day, Secondary Coach Jerome Henderson was one of the people in attendance and he personally worked out the Georgia DBs.
3 out of the Top 22 Corners on Sy's board played at Georgia
2 out of the Top 13 Safeties on Sy's board played at Georgia
I know the Secondary seems to be one of the team's strengths at this point, but I would not be surprised if the Giants ended up with a Georgia DB in the draft.
I do think NYG will like the Georgia DBs, notably day 3 safety Mark Webb. He is another Logan Ryan
But I'll be honest, I think the heavy presence was there to see Ojulari, a candidate for #11.
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In comment 15210094 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
LOL. Wow.
Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.
See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.
This is a bunch of bullshit. Did Tampa have two good corners when their secondary was getting torched most of the year? No, their resources were pumped into their pass rush which paid dividends in the playoffs.
The Giants aren’t being sharp pumping a ton of money into the secondary. They just don’t have any quality pass rushers to pay so the money is there to splurge on something.
Tampa's used 4 premium picks on corners in the last 5 drafts. Yeah, I think they feel it's a priority.
Packers drafted Kevin King in 2nd round and drafted Jaire Alexander a year later in first round.
Then they drafted Josh Jackson from Iowa in 2nd round same draft.
Patriots corners: Devin McCourty, Stephon Gilmore, and Johnathan Jones.
Look around the league. The good defenses have 2 really good corners. This is how it is in the modern NFL, and they are devoting premium resources to that position beyond the #1 corner.
Saints last year grabbed Jackrabbit when they had Lattimore.
The Ravens with Marcus Peters and Marlon Humphrey.
Remember the Rams with Aqib Talib and Jalen Ramsey?
#2 CB is really important to teams, whether you agree or not, and they are willing to pay or use premium picks to try and have at least 2 really good ones.
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In comment 15210347 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15210094 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
LOL. Wow.
Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.
See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.
This is a bunch of bullshit. Did Tampa have two good corners when their secondary was getting torched most of the year? No, their resources were pumped into their pass rush which paid dividends in the playoffs.
The Giants aren’t being sharp pumping a ton of money into the secondary. They just don’t have any quality pass rushers to pay so the money is there to splurge on something.
Tampa's used 4 premium picks on corners in the last 5 drafts. Yeah, I think they feel it's a priority.
Packers drafted Kevin King in 2nd round and drafted Jaire Alexander a year later in first round.
Then they drafted Josh Jackson from Iowa in 2nd round same draft.
Patriots corners: Devin McCourty, Stephon Gilmore, and Johnathan Jones.
Look around the league. The good defenses have 2 really good corners. This is how it is in the modern NFL, and they are devoting premium resources to that position beyond the #1 corner.
Saints last year grabbed Jackrabbit when they had Lattimore.
The Ravens with Marcus Peters and Marlon Humphrey.
Remember the Rams with Aqib Talib and Jalen Ramsey?
#2 CB is really important to teams, whether you agree or not, and they are willing to pay or use premium picks to try and have at least 2 really good ones.
More bullshit, this time misleading bullshit. I’m not even going to waste my time picking apart your examples.
Good starting corners aren’t a prerequisite to winning championships. That’s the goal. A quality rush is what moves the needle when it matters. Look at the teams that win it all. Look at what the top pass rushers are paid vs the top corners. Look at the CB talent available in FA every year vs pass rushing talent. The league and the market illustrates where the true value is.
They are both going back to school, they are not in the 2021 Draft
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In comment 15210347 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15210094 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
LOL. Wow.
Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.
See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.
This is a bunch of bullshit. Did Tampa have two good corners when their secondary was getting torched most of the year? No, their resources were pumped into their pass rush which paid dividends in the playoffs.
The Giants aren’t being sharp pumping a ton of money into the secondary. They just don’t have any quality pass rushers to pay so the money is there to splurge on something.
Tampa's used 4 premium picks on corners in the last 5 drafts. Yeah, I think they feel it's a priority.
Packers drafted Kevin King in 2nd round and drafted Jaire Alexander a year later in first round.
Then they drafted Josh Jackson from Iowa in 2nd round same draft.
Patriots corners: Devin McCourty, Stephon Gilmore, and Johnathan Jones.
Look around the league. The good defenses have 2 really good corners. This is how it is in the modern NFL, and they are devoting premium resources to that position beyond the #1 corner.
Saints last year grabbed Jackrabbit when they had Lattimore.
The Ravens with Marcus Peters and Marlon Humphrey.
Remember the Rams with Aqib Talib and Jalen Ramsey?
#2 CB is really important to teams, whether you agree or not, and they are willing to pay or use premium picks to try and have at least 2 really good ones.
The Chiefs just started a 4th round pick and a journeyman corner in the Super Bowl. Yes you need to capable starters, but you don’t need to corners making over 10 mill a year.
We make the playoffs last year with a competent CB2 in all likelihood. Having flexibility in the secondary achieves 2 things - multiple looks and insurance against injury to a unit that's easily the most vulnerable if a couple guys get banged up.
What possible point is trying to be made discussing their CB's??
What possible point is trying to be made discussing their CB's??
All I’m saying is you don’t need two corners making 10 mill a year. It’s not a smart way to construct a team. We would of been fine with Bradberry, a stopgap, and a 2nd round corner.
We don't have an offense as potent as the Chiefs, but if we can get a really strong D, we can be a much better team. The second DB spot was a hole.
This will work out if Adoree Jackson plays well, simple as that IMO. Adding Surtain I'd be all for as it will further strengthen a strength and safeguard this in future years when players get injured or released.
Saying you shouldn't spend $10M or more per year on 2 corners, that is a subjective argument. The Giants felt it was worth it as has other teams in the past.
In terms of Edge, the Patriots have pieced together their pass rush in recent years with unheralded players to success. The early indication is that seems to be what Judge wants to do here, but we will see.
Saying you shouldn't spend $10M or more per year on 2 corners, that is a subjective argument. The Giants felt it was worth it as has other teams in the past.
In terms of Edge, the Patriots have pieced together their pass rush in recent years with unheralded players to success. The early indication is that seems to be what Judge wants to do here, but we will see.
It absolutely is. The 4 top positions are QB,LT,Edge,CB. In our position, I only take Surtain if he is obvious BPA though as we have much higher needs on the team.
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made the Super Bowl on the strength of their offense. They had a worse defense than us and were 14th against the pass.
What possible point is trying to be made discussing their CB's??
All I’m saying is you don’t need two corners making 10 mill a year. It’s not a smart way to construct a team. We would of been fine with Bradberry, a stopgap, and a 2nd round corner.
Who cares what they make as long as they produce at a high level? It’s not going to prohibit us, money-wise, moving forward, imv
Ignoring a player because he plays a certain position, especially a player that can really help this team, is foolish.
Some of you guys argue just so you can be heard, rather than just agreeing to disagree with which direction NYG should go with a specific pick or allocation of money.
If you think about it, you are acting in a way in which you hate someone else for doing.
This is our world, though. Sad.
Saying you shouldn't spend $10M or more per year on 2 corners, that is a subjective argument. The Giants felt it was worth it as has other teams in the past.
In terms of Edge, the Patriots have pieced together their pass rush in recent years with unheralded players to success. The early indication is that seems to be what Judge wants to do here, but we will see.
What data are you providing to say CB2 is a premium position? Giving random CB pairing isn’t an example.
Again there is no data to back up that claim. I’m not saying CB2 isn’t important. You need a competent starter there. But there is no data to support that it’s a “premium” position.
You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.
Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.
Get good players in your system, end of discussion.
You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.
Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.
Get good players in your system, end of discussion.
Tampa isn’t paying a premium at both positions either. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.
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isn't a premium position.
You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.
Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.
Get good players in your system, end of discussion.
Tampa isn’t paying a premium at both positions either. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.
Premium isn't only about finances....it is about assets used
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Can only cover 1 player. Most good offenses have 2 legit WRs and then some.
Again there is no data to back up that claim. I’m not saying CB2 isn’t important. You need a competent starter there. But there is no data to support that it’s a “premium” position.
I don’t care about data to be perfectly honest with you. I saw our shutdown CB last year, and what the guy opposite did and to me it looks like something we would want to upgrade (which we did in FA) and I have no problem doubling down on that with Surtain.
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In comment 15211185 Sy'56 said:
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isn't a premium position.
You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.
Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.
Get good players in your system, end of discussion.
Tampa isn’t paying a premium at both positions either. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.
Premium isn't only about finances....it is about assets used
Tampa hit on their RT in the first round with Wills. I would have preferred the Giants taken a CB1 (preferably Surtain, but Horn or Farley as well) than spend $25 mill guaranteed on Jackson. What would you have done Sy?
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In comment 15211174 UConn4523 said:
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Can only cover 1 player. Most good offenses have 2 legit WRs and then some.
Again there is no data to back up that claim. I’m not saying CB2 isn’t important. You need a competent starter there. But there is no data to support that it’s a “premium” position.
I don’t care about data to be perfectly honest with you. I saw our shutdown CB last year, and what the guy opposite did and to me it looks like something we would want to upgrade (which we did in FA) and I have no problem doubling down on that with Surtain.
My issue is paying Jackson 25 mill guaranteed when we could of gotten a good player in the first rounds of the draft. The optimal chance for me would of been taking Surtain at 11. He’s a Day 1 starter IMO.
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In comment 15211191 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15211185 Sy'56 said:
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isn't a premium position.
You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.
Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.
Get good players in your system, end of discussion.
Tampa isn’t paying a premium at both positions either. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.
Premium isn't only about finances....it is about assets used
Tampa hit on their RT in the first round with Wills. I would have preferred the Giants taken a CB1 (preferably Surtain, but Horn or Farley as well) than spend $25 mill guaranteed on Jackson. What would you have done Sy?
*Wirfs
Jackson wasn't a bad signing, if that is what the debate is. And I still think it is possible NYG goes for CB again at 11 if the value is right.
Paying Jackson and drafting Surtain in the first isn’t a good use of resources. IMO you can mark off a first round corner. The team still has needs at Edge, on the O-Line. I think they go here with their first round pick.
*Wirfs
Jackson wasn't a bad signing, if that is what the debate is. And I still think it is possible NYG goes for CB again at 11 if the value is right.
My bad, I definitely meant Tristan Wirfs.
Having said all that, odds are that a player with similar grade is sitting there at 11 at a position of greater short term and/or longterm need. I'd put the immediate needs at Edge, OL and LB well above that of CB. I'd say the immediate need is much closer at WR/TE but significantly higher longer term given the tenuous status of Engram and Shep.
This could all be smoke, but my gut tells me it's true.
If this is true, Surtain will be available at 11.