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2021 NFL Draft Preview: Cornerback

Sy'56 : 4/5/2021 7:14 am
CORNERBACK

Format includes a quick position overview, my grading scale and what the number means, the summary and final grade from my final report on my top 15, a quick additional note on the player, and my ranks 16-30 with grades only.

*I AM NOT DOING NFL COMPARISONS

QUICK POSITION OVERVIEW

The signing of James Bradberry from last year’s free agency period was one of the best signings we have seen this franchise make in a long time. Having a reliable, quality presence on the outside week to week means more to a defense than most understand. Scheming around that is so much more opportunistic and with the versatility at safety, this defense has a lot of options. The other outside corner role was a revolving door in 2020, as DeAndre Baker was released. The signing of Adoree Jackson in this year’s free agency period is a huge net-gain for this defense. Now they have two reliable guys on the outside, an up-and-coming nickel in Darnay Holmes, and adequate depth in Isaac Yiadom, Ryan Lewis, and Quincy Wilson. Sam Beal remains an unknown. One can make the argument that it is a thin group when looking at the future. You always want to have 1-2 quality backups on the outside because they do see the field plenty and you’re an injury away from a glaring hole that a good opposing offense can torch.

GRADING SCALE

90+ All Pro Projection
85+: Pro Bowl Projection
81-84: 1st rounder – should be able to play right away
79-80: 2nd rounder – Should be able to rotate right away – Year 2 starter
77-78: 3rd rounder – Should be able to rotate by end of rookie year – Year 2/3 starter
74-76: Early Day 3 – Special Teams – Future backup/possible starter
71-73: Mid Day 3 – Special Teams – Future backup / gamble starter
68-70: Late Day 3 – Back end of roster / Practice Squad / Development guy
65-67: Preferred UDFA
60-64: Undrafted FA


TOP 15 GRADES AND ANALYSIS

1. Patrick Surtain II / Alabama / 6’2-202

Grade: 85


Summary: Junior entry from Plantation, Florida. Three-year starter that began his career as a rare true freshman starter at cornerback when looking back at the Nick Saban era. He went on to start 38 straight games. Ended his career as a 1st Team All American, SEC Defensive Player of the Year, and finalist for the Thorpe, Bednarik, Nagurski, and Lott Awards respectively. Surtain is the son of former NFL cornerback Patrick Surtain. Like his father, the young pedigree plays with outstanding strength and aggression. He has the size and physical brand that can take over and dominate receivers on the outside. Even though there are some deep movement and tracking issues, he is a starting caliber cornerback right now because of how advanced he is with techniques and how consistent of a presence he provides. He is better in zone than he is man, but he can fit into any scheme and play week 1.

*Prior to the Jackson signing, Surtain II was one of five guys I had pegged to NYG. He is an ideal fit for the scheme and there was a hole on the opposite side of Bradberry. Add in the fact his grade met the value of #11, I really thought this would be the direction they would lean toward. I still think there is a chance it happens, but obviously less likely. Surtain II has a couple issues with the deep ball that concern me a bit, but he is so good in every other area. He is going to be very good.

2. Jaycee Horn / South Carolina / 6’1-205

Grade: 85


Summary: Junior entry from Alpharetta, Georgia. Three-year starter that earned 2nd Team All SEC honors in 2020. Opted out of the 2020 season after 7 games. On a short list of true freshmen that have started at South Carolina. Some of the other names include Stephon Gilmore (Patriots), JaDaveon Clowney (Titans), and Bryan Edwards (Raiders). Horn, from day one, has been an impressive and important part to the Gamecocks defense. He plays a physical game, capable of taking on a big possession receiver and beating him to the ball. While there are some concerns with his turn and run ability, there is enough he can do, notably in a zone heavy scheme, that can make a big difference. The ball skills, instincts, and downhill explosion will make him a starter early in his career.

*The single best performance I have seen out of any corner in recent years was the one Horn put out against Auburn last fall. I have no quarrels with anyone that has him at CB1, him and Surtain II are equally very good. Horn shows more ability in man coverage and I think his upside is higher. If he evolves more like he did over the past 2 years, we may be looking at one of the top 3 or 4 corners in football.

3. Caleb Farley / Virginia Tech / 6’1-207

Grade: 81


Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Maiden, North Carolina. A two-year starter that earned 1st Team All ACC honors in 2019 after leading the conference in pass break ups while adding 4 interceptions. He opted out of the 2020 season. Farley was a high school quarterback that initially tried his hand at wide receiver in 2017 before tearing his ACL, leading to a redshirt. He came back in 2018, made the transition to cornerback, and started the next two seasons. Farley’s top shelf height, length, and long speed make him a very attractive prospect for any scheme in the NFL. He can blanket the opposition’s targets with both size and speed in addition to possessing receiver-caliber ball skills. The glaring issue is the fact that he only played in 23 career college games, with his 2019 being cut short because of a nerve issue in his back that later needed a procedure. There will need to be extra medical screening done here, but his tape and tools pass all the tests.

*I never had Farley in the running for CB1 in this class, nor did I ever see him as a top 20 guy. Still a very good prospect and 1st round talent though. He has the tools, a case can be made he is earlier on the progression scale than others, and he showed plenty of playmaking skills. Farley simply has too many question marks for me to “love” him. Medical and small area movement. Still can be a starter in year one I think.

4. Ifeati Melifonwu / Syracuse / 6’3-212

Grade: 80


Summary: Fourth year junior entry from South Grafton, Massachusetts. Two-year starter that was 2nd Team All ACC in 2020, the only year in which he played every game. He led the team with 17 pass break ups over the past two years combined and showed a safety’s type impact on the running game. Melifonwu is dripping with talent, much like his brother did coming out of Connecticut in 2017 when he was a 2nd round pick of the Raiders. The younger brother has the kind of size and speed for the position that is hard to find when trying to connect it to a player with an actual cornerback skill set. He attacks the ball with tremendous precision and accuracy, plays a physical brand, and is just scratching the surface. If he takes in NFL coaching and cleans up some simple but vital techniques, he can be a menace on the outside. High upside player that needs work.

*I am a bit higher on Melifonwu than most. I think he is a borderline first rounder, partially because of the versatility he can bring to the table. If I were to grade him strictly as a safety, he would be right around here as well. Teams that really value the size at corner are going to be high on him. He is twitchy, agile, and quick which doesn’t usually match up with this height and length. He can do so much in the secondary.

5. Greg Newsome II / Northwestern / 6’0-192

Grade: 79


Summary: Junior entry from Chicago, Illinois. Three-year starter that earned 1st Team All Big 10 honors in 2020. A very fluid and easy moving athlete, Newsome brings the desired height, length, and athleticism to the table that NFL corners need. He can play on the outside and be left alone on an island. His footwork and hip movement look ideal, and he has shown the ability to play with high-level ball skills. Newsome II only started 18 games over his career and there are some inconsistencies across the board. He will get caught looking in the backfield too often and his physical maturity still has a ways to go. He plays weak on contact and will not factor much against the run. He can be a starting corner in time but would be best suited for a situation that brought him along a little slower over the course of the first year or two of his career.

*There is a lot of hype around Newsome II and I think he is going to get drafted somewhere in the 20s. I’m not that far off from that evaluation, but I do question how quick he can make an impact. A few issues in his game are what I saw out of Jeff Okudah in his disappointing year in DET. It takes a few corners multiple years before they’re high quality, and that is the path I see both those guys taking.

6. Aaron Robinson / Central Florida / 6’0-190

Grade: 79


Summary: Fifth year senior from Deerfield Beach, Florida. Began his career at Alabama in 2016 where he played in 13 games. Transferred to Central Florida in 2017 and redshirted. Two-year starter that earned 2nd Team All AAC honors in both 2019 and 2020. Robinson has the pro-caliber foot speed and burst that enables him to stay sticky to his man on all levels of the route tree. He can play the game with his feet rather than getting too grabby with his hands. Robinson has a lot of dog in him. He is always one of the toughest players on the field and he knows it. Even though he needs to control where he gets aggressive and where to gamble, he is the kind of player that elevates the energy of a defense. That doesn’t occur much from cornerbacks. His size may keep him at nickel but he can play both.

*There are some corners that elevate their game with swagger. They are constantly getting in fights, constantly running their mouth. I understand that isn’t an approach for everyone t get behind, but I personally love it. Much prefer that than guys on opposing teams laughing with each other all game and trading jerseys afterward. Robinson hates his opponent every week, and he plays like it. He also has really well-developed technique and footwork. Little gamble here, but I think he is starting in the league within a year or two.

7. Tyson Campbell / Georgia / 6’1-193

Grade: 79


Summary: Junior entry from Plantation, Florida. Three-year starter that was a key part of a loaded Georgia secondary. Campbell was a five-star recruit that developed from athlete with upside to full blown pro-caliber starting corner. His body type fits in exactly with what the league is looking for. His height, length, and speed have the potential to shut the big deep threats down at the next level. He is a light and easy mover with fluid hips and flexible ankles. His ability to seamlessly change direction with this kind of body is rare. Campbell still has a ways to go in his progression when it comes to locating downfield passes, however. His athleticism looks uncomfortable when he is on an island deep. He lost too many 50/50 situations and simply didn’t produce enough to be considered a first rounder, but his upside is that of a starting corner. If his progression path stays on the path he forged over his career, his upside is as good as any at the position in this class.

*Upside-based grade here. There are safer prospects below him with similar grades but this where one can get more subjective with how they stack guys. I saw flashes out of Campbell that I didn’t see from others. His easy turn and run ability, top shelf speed, and size make him an attractive long-term prospect.

8. Paulson Adebo / Stanford / 6’1-198

Grade: 79


Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Mansfield, Texas. Two-year starter that earned 1st Team All-Pac 12 honors both seasons. Also earned All American honors in 2019. Opted out of the 2020 season. Adebo was very productive over the course of his short playing career. He was on the field for just 22 games but still walked away with 8 interceptions and 29 pass break ups. This tall, long, and fast cover man has proven receiver-caliber ball skills spread across multiple seasons. He is a try-hard corner that pursues the action hard on all downs, all situations. He is a smart and well-spoken kid that will get the most out of himself. There are a few essential techniques that he will need to clean up, however. He plays really high and it messes with his ability to minimize separation underneath. His tool set is there, he just needs to become more machine-like. High upside talent here that has the tools the NFL wants.

*Adebo was one of the guys I really wanted to watch in 2020. He opted out though and I didn’t want to move him any higher than this even though I do think he can play like a 1st rounder. He had a really impressive Pro Day, and he is a really smart kid + hard worker. He has the tools and shows the ability to make a lot of plays on the ball. He just had a few backpedal and turning issues that, without the 2020 tape to look back on, I’m not currently sure about.

9. Kelvin Joseph / Kentucky / 6’1-192

Grade: 79


Summary: Third year sophomore entry from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Began his career at LSU where he was a rotational backup in 2018 before transferring to Kentucky which forced him to sit out all of 2019. Started 9 games in 2020. Joseph is a smooth and easy mover that has plus-athletic traits attached to a really long frame. His skill set looks NFL ready right now, as he can turn and run as if he were on ice skates on top of showing the ability to play the ball in the air like a receiver. The issue here is a significant lack of experience. He has 9 career starts and played in just 20 games total. High risk, high reward cover man.

*There are a couple guys in the league that have a 1st round grade on Joseph. No arguments against that from me. He is as fluid and fast as they come. The lack of experience increases his risk a ton and I saw a couple red flags when it came to being physical in both coverage and run defense. Nobody would be surprised to see him being the top corner in this class a few years from now.

10. Elijah Molden / Washington / 5’10-190

Grade: 79


Summary: Senior entry from West Linn, Oregon. Two-plus year starter that is a two-time 1st Team All-Pac 12 honoree. Molden was a chess piece for the Washington secondary that can project to multiple positions in the NFL. He has the skill set to be a high-level nickel defender but can also play a free safety type role. He flies around the field without any hesitation. Molden is a true student of the game that is self-made. His tools won’t win any awards, as he falls under the desired lines when it comes to pure size and speed. However, his short area burst and quickness gets him around the action often. Molden is a true leader of the defense type, one that will make players around him better and hide deficiencies via smart and active play.

*There are certain teams that are going to get everything out of this kid. He is blue collar player that is smarter than most prospects coming out. He can wear a lot of hats. I just hope the right coach/scheme gets their hands on him. If he is put into the wrong place, he will be merely average at best.

11. Benjamin St. Juste / Minnesota / 6’3-200

Grade: 77


Summary: Fifth year senior from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Began his career at Michigan and spent two years there. Two-year starter for the Gophers that earned Honorable Mention All-Big 10 honors in 2019. St. Juste fits the mold of corners that many teams want now. He is tall and twitchy with plus-length. He has a nicely developed frame with an easy-moving lower half. St. Juste may not check all the boxes when it comes to long speed, thus he will need protection over the top or play a specific role at the next level. His quality of play has been on a solid and consistent upward trajectory since the start of 2019 and there are intriguing tools here to try and develop.

*St. Juste was really far down the scouting lists that I get to cross check over the summer. When I say far down, I am talking outside of the top 50 (just cornerbacks). I knew he would finish higher than that, but even I was not anticipating him finishing this high. He was one of the first Shrine Bowl recommendations I sent out. Plain and simple, you just don’t get a guy with this kind of agility and balance paired with this height often. It is rare, actually. If he were at a SEC school, we may be talking round 1.

12. Shakur Brown / Michigan State / 5’10-190

Grade: 77


Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Stockbridge, Georgia. Two-year starter that broke out in 2020, earning 1st Team All Big 10 honors after he led the FBS in interceptions per game. His 5 picks in just 7 games highlighted his ability to make plays on the ball while also displaying superior sticky coverage potential. Brown isn’t overly big or fast, but he plays hard and will stick the NFL slots naturally. He is a short strider with elite agility. He projects to a starting nickel role in time if he can prove to say healthy and progress his mental game.

*Brown has nickel written all over him. Not just his size, but his movement and sticky-style in coverage underneath. Was his breakout 2020 season real? Or just a product of a short year? He is a tough dude that plays with some attitude and swagger.

13. Eric Stokes / Georgia / 6’1-194

Grade: 77


Summary: Fourth year junior entry from Covington, Georgia. Two-year starter that earned 2nd Team All SEC honors in 2019, 1st Team in 2020. In a crowded secondary with NFL talent all over the place, it was Stokes that led the team in pass break ups in 2019 and interceptions in 2020. The former high school track star developed nicely into his frame that has natural height and length to it. He still needs to add some bulk so he can maintain power positions and balance in traffic against physical pass catchers, but his long speed and easy burst really minimizes the separation receivers can obtain all over the route tree. He will be a dependable man-cover corner capable of playing early in his career with the upside of being a very good number two corner.

*Stokes got put on some radars when he ran a sub 4.35 at the Georgia Pro Day. We already knew he was fast, that wasn’t ever the question. His questions will revolve around physical impact on contact and the ability to anticipate. I just wish I saw a bit more natural flow in his game. If he makes gains in that area, he can be a starter in a similar way to the new NYG starter Adoree Jackson.

14. Asante Samuel Jr / Florida State / 5’10-184

Grade: 77


Summary: Junior entry from Sunrise, Florida. Son of former Super Bowl winning NFL cornerback Asante Samuel. A three-year starter that earned 1st Team All ACC honors in 2020, 3rd Team in 2019. Samuel, like his father, is a ball hawk that can make up for physical shortcomings with his instinctive nature and precise footwork. He broke up 29 passes in 32 games while intercepting another 4. He was a bright spot among the struggling FSU program. Samuel’s lack of size and questionable speed could get him in trouble if left alone against NFL receivers on the outside. He doesn’t always look comfortable down the field and in traffic. However, when it comes to sitting back and diagnosing the action in front of him, Samuel Jr looks NFL-ready. He can be eased into action and is most attractive in a scheme with safety help deep.

*Samuel is going to be a very good nickel. He is a bit scheme-specific, one that favors zone, but for the team that gets him will know that. He could slip into day 3 because of the crazy CB depth in this class. And I bet he makes a year-1 impact.

15. Kary Vincent / LSU / 5’10-185

Grade: 77


Summary: Senior entry from Houston, Texas. Three-year starter that opted out of the 2020 season. Son of former NFL cornerback Kary Vincent Sr. A former high school state champion sprinter that also ran track for the Tigers in college. Vincent may be the fastest defender in the class. His burst, acceleration, and top end speed are all tied together. He plays at a rate faster than everyone else when he knows what he is going after. The issue seems to be that he just doesn’t always mentally click when deciphering route concepts and the passer’s intentions. Vincent was moved around the secondary a ton, seeing a lot of looks at nickel corner and free safety. A team needs to try and develop him at one spot because the tools are good enough to be a big-time factor at the next level. He isn’t a physical player and his instincts aren’t natural, so the nickel spot is likely his best spot where the power-shortcomings won’t hurt as much.

*I had Vincent top 5 in my stack at the start of 2020. His opt out was less than ideal. I don’t want to penalize him for it, but I do have a tendency to push guys ahead of him when I know there are significant instinct-based issues in his game. Vincent will be one of the fastest players in the NFL right away and he made some big plays over his career. He is worth the gamble at some point, the question will be when. Also, you need a strong plan for where he is going in the secondary, as I don’t see the intelligence to man multiple spots.

16. Camryn Bynum / California / 6’0-198: 75
17. Robert Rochell / Central Arkansas / 5’11-195: 75
18. Shaun Wade / Ohio State / 6’1-195: 75
19. Ambry Thomas / Michigan / 6’0-189: 74
20. Keith Taylor / Washington / 6’2-191: 74
21. Thomas Graham Jr / Oregon / 5’11-193: 74
22. DJ Daniel / Georgia / 5’11-183: 72
23. Michael Carter II / Duke / 5’10-190: 72
24. Israel Mukuamu / South Carolina / 6’4-205: 71
25. Trill Williams / Syracuse / 6’1-198: 71
26. Marco Wilson / Florida / 5’11-187: 70
27. Rodarius Williams / Oklahoma State / 6’0-193: 70
28. Bryan Mills / NC Central / 6’1-180: 69
29. Bryce Thompson / Tennessee / 6’0-182: 69
30. Tay Gowan / Central Florida / 6’2-185: 69

NYG APPROACH


This is one of the deepest cornerback groups in recent memory. I still have another 10+ names that I consider draftable. NYG has a strong 1-2-3-4-5 for the 2021 season, maybe top 7 in the NFL if Jackson reaches his previous form now that his knee is 100%. As said earlier, however, that extra depth for the future isn’t there yet. Do you wait until next year and then have to rely on a rookie? Or do you use a day three pick on someone that falls and groom him for a year? I also think some depth and competition for Holmes at nickel would be a benefit to him. While it isn’t a pressing need, you don’t ever want to be poor or lacking depth at corner. If the value is right any point day 3, I think it is a smart investment
Thanks Sy.  
section125 : 4/5/2021 7:21 am : link
Yes I was hoping for Surtain to make it past Dallas to the Giants before Jackson was signed. I still would not mind it as CBs are essential in Graham's defense. Build a strength and keep it.
They maybe better off looking later for a slot CB, as you said, as CB is one of the lesser needs this year.
good stuff as usual  
Victor in CT : 4/5/2021 7:31 am : link
looks like they can get quality in Round 3.
Thanks for posting and the info  
SCGiantsFan : 4/5/2021 7:52 am : link
I do have to agree with your premise having young CB's on the roster a year early vs, getting bit by injuries. Round 3 sounds like value starts to better align with needs.

Looking forward to reading through this a second and third time
Excellent point...  
bw in dc : 4/5/2021 7:53 am : link
about Horn against Auburn. A few of us discussed this very topic a few weeks ago. He was out of his mind good. And those Auburn receivers are very good players.

Nice to see you have properly placed Wade. What a poor year he had.

I think Farley is going to be lower ranked because of the medical. So I’m surprised you had him this high.

Excellent content as always.

a lot of CB talent this year  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/5/2021 7:53 am : link
You can never have enough in the secondary
Did  
Jon in NYC : 4/5/2021 7:59 am : link
you have any thoughts on Rachad Wildgoose? I was really surprised when he declared early and sure enough not in your top 20, so not a great sign for him.
RE: Did  
Jon in NYC : 4/5/2021 8:00 am : link
In comment 15209447 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
you have any thoughts on Rachad Wildgoose? I was really surprised when he declared early and sure enough not in your top 20, so not a great sign for him.


*Top 30
Thank You, Sy....great job....  
George from PA : 4/5/2021 8:01 am : link
Paulson Adebo might be a perfect example of what will happen in this year's draft....opt outs providing opportunities...not having a year of development to scout will push him lower in draft.

This is a great year to have extra draft picks....so I am still hoping for a trade down...
Your Surtain write-up is definitely exciting  
Chris684 : 4/5/2021 8:01 am : link
and like you said, before we signed Adoree he was #1 on my wish list.

I still wouldn't hesitate if he was sitting there at 11 but figuring he will be gone. My hope now is that he doesn't wind up with Dallas.
8 CBs 79 or higher  
Judge_and_Jury : 4/5/2021 8:03 am : link
Pretty decent depth. Don't know if one of those 8 make early-mid round 3 but if we pick up another pick in a tradedown maybe a CB will be a good option when we pick.
Ifeati Melifonwu  
Snacks : 4/5/2021 8:24 am : link
Sounds like the type of player the Giants like on D as it sounds like he could play almost any role in the secondary. We'll see what happens.
Thank you, Sy..  
Big Blue '56 : 4/5/2021 8:41 am : link
Fwiw(very little), it appears most mocks have Surtain going to Dallas at 10
A ton of depth here  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 8:42 am : link
This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.
This validates what I have been thinking with the top guys  
rasbutant : 4/5/2021 8:44 am : link
Horn was my favorite, but I understand the size of the other two and what advantages that brings. And at first glance I wasn’t seeing it with Farley but because he was so highly rated I went back and watched more and could see what people liked but they I’m still not the biggest fan. Also Ed Stokes, glad to see the hype of the 40 didn’t put him into the 1st like I have seen others have him ranked. I just don’t see a good football player there.
great stuff as always  
KDavies : 4/5/2021 8:49 am : link
like the evaluation of Ifeati Melifonwu. As an SU fan, I had him on my radar for 2nd round. Nice size and versatility. Would be a bit of surprise at this point due to signing of Jackson.
RE: A ton of depth here  
Mike in NY : 4/5/2021 8:56 am : link
In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.


There are only 2 CB's with first round grades according to Sy if you have flagged Farley for medicals. Evem if you look at the depth guys there is a lot more "boom or bust" versus CB's you can say may not have starter upside but they can be a solid nickel or dime guy for a long time. CB is one position that is hard to grade as a result of opt outs because you do need to see how a player reacts when opponents have more film on them. If you can't adjust you won't be in NFL all that long.

It sounds like Dallas  
mittenedman : 4/5/2021 9:02 am : link
is locked in to a certain CB at #10. I'm guessing it's Surtain. He's going to be a PIA to play against. I love his physical brand from the CB position.

Aaron Robinson is a very interesting name. He can play the slot, and his versatility would add another piece to the D. I like Holmes, but he was injured a lot, and there is nobody else.
RE: A ton of depth here  
KDavies : 4/5/2021 9:15 am : link
In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.


What you call "so dumb" most other people call "fulfilling your needs in FA, so you can go BPA in the draft"
...  
ryanmkeane : 4/5/2021 9:16 am : link
I think Surtain is very much still in play. Great stuff Sy!
RE: Thank you, Sy..  
Sy'56 : 4/5/2021 9:20 am : link
In comment 15209488 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Fwiw(very little), it appears most mocks have Surtain going to Dallas at 10


I have to foo one mock per year...I loathe them. It is a 7 rounder where 4 of us take 8 teams each.

Surtain went to DAL.
Great stuff Sy’  
beatrixkiddo : 4/5/2021 9:36 am : link
This does seem like a really promising class of CBs. If any of those guys in the 10-15 range you have ranked can be had on Day 3 I really hope the Giants grab one and let them develop, One injury can really bog down this unit, even though we have a strong secondary overall. I would love to see them grab a guy that is capable of becoming an outside CB for us in a year or two. You don’t typically see this many CBs with the size and agility that so many of these do.
.....  
Klaatu : 4/5/2021 9:43 am : link
Quote:
While it isn’t a pressing need, you don’t ever want to be poor or lacking depth at corner. If the value is right any point day 3, I think it is a smart investment


I couldn't agree more.
What a deep draft for CBs  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/5/2021 9:45 am : link
each prospect sounded like fantastic fits all the way down the line. If they can get Melifonwu or Robinson in rd 2, what a coup that would be.
Thx Sy. Great Monday morning writeup  
Earl the goat : 4/5/2021 9:48 am : link
Never want to argue or disagree with you
But Eric Stokes is much better corner than Tyson Campbell
I watched plenty of Georgia games. I’m not the maven like you but Stokes should be higher
In the BBI Mock Draft  
Rick in Dallas : 4/5/2021 9:51 am : link
I drafted Surtain in the first round for Dallas and then Joseph in the third round for Dallas.They will now be set for next 10 years barring injury at the CB position including Diggs from last year.
3 positions are loaded in this year's draft,WR, CB and OL.
RE: Thx Sy. Great Monday morning writeup  
Sy'56 : 4/5/2021 10:01 am : link
In comment 15209584 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Never want to argue or disagree with you
But Eric Stokes is much better corner than Tyson Campbell
I watched plenty of Georgia games. I’m not the maven like you but Stokes should be higher


I see that point for sure. Most agree with that notion as well. No offense taken and you can disagree with me all you want, not like my word is the Bible.

I just see more upside with Campbell
RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 10:13 am : link
In comment 15209529 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



What you call "so dumb" most other people call "fulfilling your needs in FA, so you can go BPA in the draft"



I just don’t like the signing. We could of gotten a young corner to groom alongside Bradberry. Instead we chose to give a guy with injury concerns a massive contract (when they wasn’t a even a big market for said player) when we already have a ton of big money contracts on the team. It’s not what I would’ve done, but I’m not running the team.
Wouldn't mind Robinson in the second round  
jeff57 : 4/5/2021 10:16 am : link
Not sold on Adoree.
As a side note  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 10:19 am : link
I’m a build through the draft guy. I didn’t want Golladay or any other big name Free Agent outside of Leonard Williams and possibly out very own Dalvin Tomlinson. I still think we overpaid for Golloday, but I understand the signing. We needed a proven No. 1 receiver to help Jones develop. I definitely understand the need and why the decision was done.

Jackson was just excess. 27 mill guaranteed for a guy with injury concerns, and wasn’t that impressive to begin with. I really really hate signing.
My dream scenario would of been  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 10:28 am : link
Drafting Surtain II and playing him alongside Bradberry. In 2 years he could’ve been our No. 1, when Bradberry hits Free Agency.
Okudah was drafted what last year  
KDavies : 4/5/2021 10:37 am : link
#3 overall? He was not good at all. You can't expect the Giants to select a CB at 11 (or the 2nd or 3rd round) and him to be an immediate starter.

Building through the draft is important, but you need to be picking BPA, not picking players at positions simply because you have a glaring need.
RE: As a side note  
Klaatu : 4/5/2021 10:44 am : link
In comment 15209623 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
I’m a build through the draft guy. I didn’t want Golladay or any other big name Free Agent outside of Leonard Williams and possibly out very own Dalvin Tomlinson. I still think we overpaid for Golloday, but I understand the signing. We needed a proven No. 1 receiver to help Jones develop. I definitely understand the need and why the decision was done.

Jackson was just excess. 27 mill guaranteed for a guy with injury concerns, and wasn’t that impressive to begin with. I really really hate signing.


I don't see how you can say that Jackson "wasn't that impressive to begin with." As PFF noted in his free agent profile:
Quote:
A former first-round pick, Adoree Jackson has elite coverage numbers. He ranks just behind the trio of Jaire Alexander, Richard Sherman and Stephon Gilmore among corners when lined up outside in PFF coverage grade since 2018, and was an unexpected cut by the Titans. He missed almost the entirety of the 2020 season, but if he checks out medically is an outstanding option at the position.
RE: RE: As a side note  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 10:50 am : link
In comment 15209664 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 15209623 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


I’m a build through the draft guy. I didn’t want Golladay or any other big name Free Agent outside of Leonard Williams and possibly out very own Dalvin Tomlinson. I still think we overpaid for Golloday, but I understand the signing. We needed a proven No. 1 receiver to help Jones develop. I definitely understand the need and why the decision was done.

Jackson was just excess. 27 mill guaranteed for a guy with injury concerns, and wasn’t that impressive to begin with. I really really hate signing.



I don't see how you can say that Jackson "wasn't that impressive to begin with." As PFF noted in his free agent profile:

Quote:


A former first-round pick, Adoree Jackson has elite coverage numbers. He ranks just behind the trio of Jaire Alexander, Richard Sherman and Stephon Gilmore among corners when lined up outside in PFF coverage grade since 2018, and was an unexpected cut by the Titans. He missed almost the entirety of the 2020 season, but if he checks out medically is an outstanding option at the position.



I’ll admit that I don’t watch many Titans game. Was Jackson covering the other team’s number 1 receiver or was that Butler? Why did the Titans defensive struggle so much in pass defense?
Given the Adoree signing  
JonC : 4/5/2021 11:06 am : link
I'd wager they go Edge if the receivers are all gone, all signs point to it. Surtain's a blue chipper, he'd be my pick.
I'd love to grab Stokes with the 3rd round pick but I doubt he lasts  
Eric on Li : 4/5/2021 11:10 am : link
adding a young guy with speed who they can groom in the system is a must. Who knows which version of Jackson they get, who knows what happens when Bradberry's contract is up in 2 seasons, and who knows what happens with injuries.

The sentiment that they've spent too many draft resources on CB is exactly wrong imo (and obviously Baker already left the building, and Beal has 1 foot out the door).
Jon C  
Rick in Dallas : 4/5/2021 11:10 am : link
Do you hear who at Edge would be the pick at 11?
I think the Edge class is full of boom or bust prospects...
Jon  
ryanmkeane : 4/5/2021 11:13 am : link
i've been thinking the order is this:

Smith, Pitts, Waddle, Phillips, Surtain, Paye
RE:  
Klaatu : 4/5/2021 11:17 am : link
In comment 15209674 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:

I’ll admit that I don’t watch many Titans game. Was Jackson covering the other team’s number 1 receiver or was that Butler? Why did the Titans defensive struggle so much in pass defense?


I couldn't tell you. I don't watch many Titans games, either. All I'm saying is Jackson may be a better player than you think.
RE: Given the Adoree signing  
Klaatu : 4/5/2021 11:18 am : link
In comment 15209698 JonC said:
Quote:
I'd wager they go Edge if the receivers are all gone, all signs point to it. Surtain's a blue chipper, he'd be my pick.


It's always CB's with you, just like it's always LB's with me, lol.
Not heard of Edge preference yet  
JonC : 4/5/2021 11:27 am : link
If the goal is to replace Sheard's role, for example, in my opinion drafting Paye might do the trick. But, I think they can do better with the #11 overall pick in terms of picking a real threat pass rusher.

Without the concussion history, Phillips would be the pick, imo. His medicals are crucial. #11 is probably a little too early for Edge otherwise, thus the convo they're looking to trade down if their receiver targets wind up gone.
RE: RE: Given the Adoree signing  
JonC : 4/5/2021 11:28 am : link
In comment 15209717 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 15209698 JonC said:


Quote:


I'd wager they go Edge if the receivers are all gone, all signs point to it. Surtain's a blue chipper, he'd be my pick.



It's always CB's with you, just like it's always LB's with me, lol.


Just last year and this year because of the blue chippers at CB, but I prefer Edge talent in general over CB.
RE: Not heard of Edge preference yet  
ryanmkeane : 4/5/2021 11:29 am : link
In comment 15209727 JonC said:
Quote:
If the goal is to replace Sheard's role, for example, in my opinion drafting Paye might do the trick. But, I think they can do better with the #11 overall pick in terms of picking a real threat pass rusher.

Without the concussion history, Phillips would be the pick, imo. His medicals are crucial. #11 is probably a little too early for Edge otherwise, thus the convo they're looking to trade down if their receiver targets wind up gone.

Gotcha. Trading down to the mid or low teens would be awesome if the playmakers are gone and we don't see the true value at 11 for Phillips or Paye. I think Paye is going to be a good pro, just depends on if he's worth a top 20 pick
Phillips getting his body right  
ryanmkeane : 4/5/2021 11:32 am : link
and playing this year when a lot of guys opted out is probably going to sit well with NYG
I think Paye's floor is solid  
JonC : 4/5/2021 11:33 am : link
but not seeing upside to be a real rush threat.
RE: I think Paye's floor is solid  
ryanmkeane : 4/5/2021 11:34 am : link
In comment 15209739 JonC said:
Quote:
but not seeing upside to be a real rush threat.

Agreed. and to me - Phillips reminds me of the guys we have passed on previously who end up being pro bowl edge guys, like TJ Watt for example, we took Engram over him
RE: Not heard of Edge preference yet  
Klaatu : 4/5/2021 11:34 am : link
In comment 15209727 JonC said:
Quote:
If the goal is to replace Sheard's role, for example, in my opinion drafting Paye might do the trick. But, I think they can do better with the #11 overall pick in terms of picking a real threat pass rusher.

Without the concussion history, Phillips would be the pick, imo. His medicals are crucial. #11 is probably a little too early for Edge otherwise, thus the convo they're looking to trade down if their receiver targets wind up gone.


A trade down would be ideal, but I wouldn't go any lower than #17 (Las Vegas). Oweh would be my pick there.
I like Tryon (high floor and ceiling) and Oweh (raw)  
JonC : 4/5/2021 11:47 am : link
if they can trade up from #42.
A lot of good corners to pick from  
JonC : 4/5/2021 11:49 am : link
in 3rd round or later from this group.
One  
AcidTest : 4/5/2021 11:56 am : link
of Pitts, Waddle, or Smith is likely going to be available at #11. That should prevent them from reaching for an EDGE. I don't see the Giants being able to trade down because I think all five QBs will be gone before #11, and no one will want to trade up for a non-QB.
Oweh  
ryanmkeane : 4/5/2021 12:03 pm : link
seems like he will get tossed around in the run game
RE: I like Tryon (high floor and ceiling) and Oweh (raw)  
Klaatu : 4/5/2021 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15209764 JonC said:
Quote:
if they can trade up from #42.


I like Tryon, too. If you recall, I started a thread about him a while back.

But since this thread is about CB's, I'll echo what I said earlier when I agreed with Sy about drafting a good prospect on Day 3 (assuming they don't take one earlier). 6th round, I'd look for the prototype height-weight-speed kid, good measurables, tools you can work with, developmental with some upside.
yep  
ryanmkeane : 4/5/2021 12:09 pm : link
i think we are looking at day 3 and UDFA for CBs this year and that's fine by me, unless something unforeseen happens with the draft and Surtain is graded way higher than the Edge prospects
for example  
ryanmkeane : 4/5/2021 12:10 pm : link
NYG might have Surtain as the 2nd or 3rd best player in the draft. We really don't know
I like Molden  
JonC : 4/5/2021 12:16 pm : link
St Juste, Samuel Jr, and Vincent for 3rd round. A lot of tools, speed, and versatility.
Sy...  
bw in dc : 4/5/2021 12:28 pm : link
Any comments on Chase Lucas for ASU or Castro-Fields of PSU?
RE: Not heard of Edge preference yet  
Jay on the Island : 4/5/2021 1:05 pm : link
In comment 15209727 JonC said:
Quote:
If the goal is to replace Sheard's role, for example, in my opinion drafting Paye might do the trick. But, I think they can do better with the #11 overall pick in terms of picking a real threat pass rusher.

Without the concussion history, Phillips would be the pick, imo. His medicals are crucial. #11 is probably a little too early for Edge otherwise, thus the convo they're looking to trade down if their receiver targets wind up gone.

I’m no expert but I love Jaelan Phillips. If he passes the medicals I would be thrilled if the Giants traded down a few spots to land him, assuming the top WR’s and Pitts are gone. I think he could make an immediate impact.
I like that  
GoDeep13 : 4/5/2021 1:11 pm : link
We are equally high on Melifonwu. Kid is a real good player. Would love to be able to get him in the 3rd but that may not be possible.
RE: A ton of depth here  
allstarjim : 4/5/2021 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.


So you're of the mindset that you go into the draft with a need that you need to fill early? That's not smart.
RE: RE: Not heard of Edge preference yet  
JonC : 4/5/2021 1:18 pm : link
In comment 15209920 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 15209727 JonC said:


Quote:


If the goal is to replace Sheard's role, for example, in my opinion drafting Paye might do the trick. But, I think they can do better with the #11 overall pick in terms of picking a real threat pass rusher.

Without the concussion history, Phillips would be the pick, imo. His medicals are crucial. #11 is probably a little too early for Edge otherwise, thus the convo they're looking to trade down if their receiver targets wind up gone.


I’m no expert but I love Jaelan Phillips. If he passes the medicals I would be thrilled if the Giants traded down a few spots to land him, assuming the top WR’s and Pitts are gone. I think he could make an immediate impact.


He has all the tools but the concussions concern me, am very interested to hear if info becomes available.
RE: A ton of depth here  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/5/2021 1:20 pm : link
In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.


LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.
RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 1:22 pm : link
In comment 15209930 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



So you're of the mindset that you go into the draft with a need that you need to fill early? That's not smart.



Paying 27 million guaranteed for an oft injured player isn’t smart either. I don’t like the signing. I’ve explained my stance above.
RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.



Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.
Thanks, Sy!  
TC : 4/5/2021 1:29 pm : link
Great review!
RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
Jay on the Island : 4/5/2021 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15209939 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:

Paying 27 million guaranteed for an oft injured player isn’t smart either. I don’t like the signing. I’ve explained my stance above.

While I disagree with you I’m not going to criticize your opinion. Yes Jackson has injury concerns but prior to that he was a very good CB who is only 25 years old. Players like him rarely make it to the market unless there is an issue such as injury and/or off the field stuff.

The second CB spot literally cost the Giants a playoff spot and cost them at least two wins including the first games versus the Eagles and Cowboys. Yes there is some risk involved but if he stays healthy then nobody will be criticizing the move as it prevents the Giants from having to draft for need early in the draft.
RE: Given the Adoree signing  
allstarjim : 4/5/2021 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15209698 JonC said:
Quote:
I'd wager they go Edge if the receivers are all gone, all signs point to it. Surtain's a blue chipper, he'd be my pick.


Jon, I think it's a done deal that QBs go 1-2-3 in the draft...so only 7 players prior to NYG's pick after them.

I don't see 3 receivers (4 if you include Pitts) going in 7 picks, particularly with Sewell, Slater, Surtain, and Horn getting high marks. I think a big question mark is if Parsons goes top 10.

If I were doing a 10 team mock prior to the Giants, it would go something like this:

Jax: Trevor Lawrence
Jets: Zach Wilson
49ers: Justin Fields (catch me on a different day and I'd say Lance)
Falcons: Kyle Pitts
Bengals: Penei Sewell
Miami: Ja'Marr Chase
Detroit: Trey Lance
Carolina: Rashawn Slater (I've been a big believer that 2 OL will go top 10, this seems like a good fit)
Denver: Micah Parsons
Dallas: Surtain II

NYG is left with: Devonta Smith or Waddle with a clear decision where need and value match. I think they're going to go with Waddle.

Sure, Carolina or Denver could go with a playmaker at receiver, but I don't see them both doing it, and so I think at least one of the two will be there. And certainly one of the big 4 QBs could fall out of the top 10, but just as easily Jaycee Horn AND Surtain could go top 10, and someone else could crash the party such as Najee Harris or a number of other guys like Rousseau, Vera-Tucker, or Moehrig.

My bet is at least 1 of the 2 'Bama receivers will be there at 11, and I'd give 4-1 odds on that at least.
RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
allstarjim : 4/5/2021 1:48 pm : link
In comment 15209939 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15209930 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



So you're of the mindset that you go into the draft with a need that you need to fill early? That's not smart.




Paying 27 million guaranteed for an oft injured player isn’t smart either. I don’t like the signing. I’ve explained my stance above.


You can not like the signing but not liking it because of the draft is a "dumb" reason. You have fair points on Jackson's question marks. But there's no doubt if he is healthy he makes the team better.

Personally, I don't love OR hate the signing. It's a great one if it works out, especially if he contributes to and elevates the return game.
Great job Sy - very helpful  
The Mike : 4/5/2021 1:48 pm : link
Solid if not spectacular group. The Adoree Jackson signing allows Giants to address other areas and makes this is a day three option at best.

Kary Vincent is the most intriguing guy here to me - Giants should either consider him on day three or have him as the first call on the UDFA call list. Huge upside if he can be developed.
jim  
JonC : 4/5/2021 1:53 pm : link
Good stuff. I don't think Slater or Horn goes top 10, but appreciate the work you did.

I'm pretty sure Giants would pick Smith over Waddle in your scenario. I think he's the guy at WR. Parsons is a wild card with the character questions out there, but I think he'll still go top 10.
RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 1:54 pm : link
Quote:


You can not like the signing but not liking it because of the draft is a "dumb" reason. You have fair points on Jackson's question marks. But there's no doubt if he is healthy he makes the team better.

Personally, I don't love OR hate the signing. It's a great one if it works out, especially if he contributes to and elevates the return game.



That’s fair. Dumb is a strong word. I don’t think it’s the smart move for the long term. It’s not a move I would of done. But I’m just a fan. I’m not getting paid to make these decisions.
i think there's close to a zero  
ryanmkeane : 4/5/2021 2:26 pm : link
percent chance that Detroit takes a QB. They took on Goff's salary, and they aren't going to take the 4th or 5th best QB this year
Carolina  
JJ2525 : 4/5/2021 2:39 pm : link
I have to think Panthers will be very aggressive to get a qb. Big money owner, spent a ton on the coach. Are they really going to spend 2 years without making a big move at the most important position? Playing another year with Teddy is a guarantee of going between 5-11 and 8-8. I just can't see rhule wanting that and going into year 3 still looking for a guy to start building around. I think Lance would make a TON of sense for them.
RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
allstarjim : 4/5/2021 2:48 pm : link
In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.




Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.


No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.
RE: i think there's close to a zero  
allstarjim : 4/5/2021 2:53 pm : link
In comment 15210007 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
percent chance that Detroit takes a QB. They took on Goff's salary, and they aren't going to take the 4th or 5th best QB this year


You're probably right, but they can cut Goff after 2022. This still might be a year early for Detroit to consider a QB. If not, I like Fields or Lance, whichever is there, to go to Carolina. I think they will do so if one lands in their lap, but aren't going to force it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 3:19 pm : link
In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.




Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.



No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.


I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.
What is it in the water in the Plantation, Deerfield Beach area of FL?  
ColHowPepper : 4/5/2021 3:48 pm : link
breeding ground for highly rated corners.

Thank you, Sy'
OT: on the subject of ER that has intruded here  
ColHowPepper : 4/5/2021 3:54 pm : link
I agree with JonC's assessments: Paye looks like a solid, set the edge guy but not really an edge rusher guy, he won't serve to complement what we already have.

Phillips, jeez guys, if it ain't clear, I'll try once more: recent medicals do not count for squat when it comes to head trauma history. One jarring tackle he makes, or if his head hits the ground, or if he goes helmet to helmet accidentally, and he could be grounded for 2-4-6-8 weeks: you just cannot know! I get that he (along with Parsons?) likely has the highest upside as an ER, but you are in high risk land (and Parsons with his off field stuff, probably a safer risk to take with the PSU insiders).
Melifonwu and St. Juste  
ColHowPepper : 4/5/2021 4:09 pm : link
Sy', seems like they are similar athletes and with similar strong upsides, with characteristics you don't often find combined in corners: long, strong, and twitchy with talent itching to be unlocked
I'm glad this came out later than the BBI mock draft started  
NoGainDayne : 4/5/2021 5:16 pm : link
doesn't seem like I would have gotten Melifonwu in the 3rd round after this came out
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
allstarjim : 4/5/2021 5:37 pm : link
In comment 15210094 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.




Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.



No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.



I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.


See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 6:03 pm : link
In comment 15210347 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15210094 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.




Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.



No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.



I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.



See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.


It’s not a fact. You don’t need two corners earning 10 mill+ a year. Jackson wasn’t the only free agent Corner available. The Giants could of easily gotten a stop gap corner like Patrick Peterson and still drafted a corner.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
robbieballs2003 : 4/5/2021 6:22 pm : link
In comment 15210386 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15210347 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 15210094 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.




Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.



No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.



I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.



See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.



It’s not a fact. You don’t need two corners earning 10 mill+ a year. Jackson wasn’t the only free agent Corner available. The Giants could of easily gotten a stop gap corner like Patrick Peterson and still drafted a corner.


They were going that route until Jackson became available. They pivoted because they like Jackson that much. You may not but they do. Get over it.
RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
Jay on the Island : 4/5/2021 8:57 pm : link
In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:

Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.

Like Washington who gave 29 year old William Jackson a 3 year $40.5 million dollar contract?

Jacksonville gave 26 year old Shaq Griffin 3 years and $40 million dollars.

Denver gave journeyman 27 year old Ronald Darby a 3 years and $30 millions.

RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/5/2021 9:36 pm : link
In comment 15210603 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:



Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.


Like Washington who gave 29 year old William Jackson a 3 year $40.5 million dollar contract?

Jacksonville gave 26 year old Shaq Griffin 3 years and $40 million dollars.

Denver gave journeyman 27 year old Ronald Darby a 3 years and $30 millions.


I wouldn’t have paid 24.5 mil guaranteed for a second corner.

There were a few veteran guys available as stop gaps

Patrick Peterson 1 year 8 million
Xavier Rhodes 1 year 4.7 million
Malcolm Butler 1 year 3.2 million
Sidney Jones 1 year 1.7 million
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
WillVAB : 4/5/2021 10:02 pm : link
In comment 15210347 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15210094 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15210051 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 15209942 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15209936 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15209490 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.




Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.



No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.



I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.



See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.


This is a bunch of bullshit. Did Tampa have two good corners when their secondary was getting torched most of the year? No, their resources were pumped into their pass rush which paid dividends in the playoffs.

The Giants aren’t being sharp pumping a ton of money into the secondary. They just don’t have any quality pass rushers to pay so the money is there to splurge on something.
thanks Sy  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 4/5/2021 10:18 pm : link
It's interesting how certain people seem to be in love with Horn. He was generally considered the #3 CB before the Farley injury news, but even then you saw a few people say "I just love his style of play, he could easily end up the best CB in the class". It'll be really interesting to see how those top 3 CBs perform at the next level.

There was a heavy Giants presence at the Georgia Pro Day, Secondary Coach Jerome Henderson was one of the people in attendance and he personally worked out the Georgia DBs.

3 out of the Top 22 Corners on Sy's board played at Georgia
2 out of the Top 13 Safeties on Sy's board played at Georgia

I know the Secondary seems to be one of the team's strengths at this point, but I would not be surprised if the Giants ended up with a Georgia DB in the draft.
I'm still all for drafting Surtain  
Go Terps : 4/5/2021 10:48 pm : link
Jackson is coming off a season in which he played 2 games. Bradberry only has 2 years remaining on his deal.

You can not have enough quality CBs. If Surtain is as good as Sy is saying, you've gotta take him if he's there at 11.
RE: thanks Sy  
Sy'56 : 4/5/2021 10:50 pm : link
In comment 15210722 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
It's interesting how certain people seem to be in love with Horn. He was generally considered the #3 CB before the Farley injury news, but even then you saw a few people say "I just love his style of play, he could easily end up the best CB in the class". It'll be really interesting to see how those top 3 CBs perform at the next level.

There was a heavy Giants presence at the Georgia Pro Day, Secondary Coach Jerome Henderson was one of the people in attendance and he personally worked out the Georgia DBs.

3 out of the Top 22 Corners on Sy's board played at Georgia
2 out of the Top 13 Safeties on Sy's board played at Georgia

I know the Secondary seems to be one of the team's strengths at this point, but I would not be surprised if the Giants ended up with a Georgia DB in the draft.


I do think NYG will like the Georgia DBs, notably day 3 safety Mark Webb. He is another Logan Ryan

But I'll be honest, I think the heavy presence was there to see Ojulari, a candidate for #11.
RE: RE: thanks Sy  
mort christenson : 4/5/2021 11:07 pm : link
In comment 15210756 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15210722 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:


Quote:


It's interesting how certain people seem to be in love with Horn. He was generally considered the #3 CB before the Farley injury news, but even then you saw a few people say "I just love his style of play, he could easily end up the best CB in the class". It'll be really interesting to see how those top 3 CBs perform at the next level.

There was a heavy Giants presence at the Georgia Pro Day, Secondary Coach Jerome Henderson was one of the people in attendance and he personally worked out the Georgia DBs.

3 out of the Top 22 Corners on Sy's board played at Georgia
2 out of the Top 13 Safeties on Sy's board played at Georgia

I know the Secondary seems to be one of the team's strengths at this point, but I would not be surprised if the Giants ended up with a Georgia DB in the draft.



I do think NYG will like the Georgia DBs, notably day 3 safety Mark Webb. He is another Logan Ryan

But I'll be honest, I think the heavy presence was there to see Ojulari, a candidate for #11.
How do you see Melifonwu as different from his brother? The descriptions of them are remarkably similar and yet the older brother was a bust.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
allstarjim : 4/5/2021 11:32 pm : link
In comment 15210701 WillVAB said:
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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.




Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.



No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.



I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.



See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.



This is a bunch of bullshit. Did Tampa have two good corners when their secondary was getting torched most of the year? No, their resources were pumped into their pass rush which paid dividends in the playoffs.

The Giants aren’t being sharp pumping a ton of money into the secondary. They just don’t have any quality pass rushers to pay so the money is there to splurge on something.


Tampa's used 4 premium picks on corners in the last 5 drafts. Yeah, I think they feel it's a priority.

Packers drafted Kevin King in 2nd round and drafted Jaire Alexander a year later in first round.

Then they drafted Josh Jackson from Iowa in 2nd round same draft.

Patriots corners: Devin McCourty, Stephon Gilmore, and Johnathan Jones.

Look around the league. The good defenses have 2 really good corners. This is how it is in the modern NFL, and they are devoting premium resources to that position beyond the #1 corner.

Saints last year grabbed Jackrabbit when they had Lattimore.

The Ravens with Marcus Peters and Marlon Humphrey.

Remember the Rams with Aqib Talib and Jalen Ramsey?

#2 CB is really important to teams, whether you agree or not, and they are willing to pay or use premium picks to try and have at least 2 really good ones.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
WillVAB : 4/5/2021 11:57 pm : link
In comment 15210799 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15210701 WillVAB said:


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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.




Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.



No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.



I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.



See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.



This is a bunch of bullshit. Did Tampa have two good corners when their secondary was getting torched most of the year? No, their resources were pumped into their pass rush which paid dividends in the playoffs.

The Giants aren’t being sharp pumping a ton of money into the secondary. They just don’t have any quality pass rushers to pay so the money is there to splurge on something.



Tampa's used 4 premium picks on corners in the last 5 drafts. Yeah, I think they feel it's a priority.

Packers drafted Kevin King in 2nd round and drafted Jaire Alexander a year later in first round.

Then they drafted Josh Jackson from Iowa in 2nd round same draft.

Patriots corners: Devin McCourty, Stephon Gilmore, and Johnathan Jones.

Look around the league. The good defenses have 2 really good corners. This is how it is in the modern NFL, and they are devoting premium resources to that position beyond the #1 corner.

Saints last year grabbed Jackrabbit when they had Lattimore.

The Ravens with Marcus Peters and Marlon Humphrey.

Remember the Rams with Aqib Talib and Jalen Ramsey?

#2 CB is really important to teams, whether you agree or not, and they are willing to pay or use premium picks to try and have at least 2 really good ones.


More bullshit, this time misleading bullshit. I’m not even going to waste my time picking apart your examples.

Good starting corners aren’t a prerequisite to winning championships. That’s the goal. A quality rush is what moves the needle when it matters. Look at the teams that win it all. Look at what the top pass rushers are paid vs the top corners. Look at the CB talent available in FA every year vs pass rushing talent. The league and the market illustrates where the true value is.

Ojulari  
BigBlueCane : 4/6/2021 4:18 am : link
is my darkhorse pick for #11 or whenever the Giants since I think they maybe debating dropping back a few spots to get him.
RE: Sy...  
Sy'56 : 4/6/2021 6:17 am : link
In comment 15209844 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Any comments on Chase Lucas for ASU or Castro-Fields of PSU?


They are both going back to school, they are not in the 2021 Draft
Sy  
Mike in NY : 4/6/2021 6:33 am : link
The DB pool is insanely deep this year. 3 that didn’t make your list that I am interested in are Wildgoose (Wisconsin), Stephens (SMU), and Hall (San Diego State).
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A ton of depth here  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/6/2021 8:16 am : link
In comment 15210799 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15210701 WillVAB said:


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In comment 15210347 allstarjim said:


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In comment 15210094 JoeyBigBlue said:


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This is why the Adoree Jackson signing was so dumb.



LOL. Wow.

Did you see one side of the field targeted all year long last season? You always want to have depth in the defensive backfield - and you don't want to have to rely on rookies just because a class is strong.




Was Adoree Jackson the only CB available in free agency? Did we need to pay a second CB 27 mill guaranteed? I rather go the rookie route.



No. It was $24.5M GTD. And it's a premium position.



I disagree. CB2 is not a premium position. You need an adequate starter at the position. Not a guy getting paid 10 mill a year, especially you already have a quality CB1 making a ton of money too.



See, what I stated wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. And smart teams make damn sure they have at least two good ones.



This is a bunch of bullshit. Did Tampa have two good corners when their secondary was getting torched most of the year? No, their resources were pumped into their pass rush which paid dividends in the playoffs.

The Giants aren’t being sharp pumping a ton of money into the secondary. They just don’t have any quality pass rushers to pay so the money is there to splurge on something.



Tampa's used 4 premium picks on corners in the last 5 drafts. Yeah, I think they feel it's a priority.

Packers drafted Kevin King in 2nd round and drafted Jaire Alexander a year later in first round.

Then they drafted Josh Jackson from Iowa in 2nd round same draft.

Patriots corners: Devin McCourty, Stephon Gilmore, and Johnathan Jones.

Look around the league. The good defenses have 2 really good corners. This is how it is in the modern NFL, and they are devoting premium resources to that position beyond the #1 corner.

Saints last year grabbed Jackrabbit when they had Lattimore.

The Ravens with Marcus Peters and Marlon Humphrey.

Remember the Rams with Aqib Talib and Jalen Ramsey?

#2 CB is really important to teams, whether you agree or not, and they are willing to pay or use premium picks to try and have at least 2 really good ones.



The Chiefs just started a 4th round pick and a journeyman corner in the Super Bowl. Yes you need to capable starters, but you don’t need to corners making over 10 mill a year.
you can poke holes in any argument  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2021 8:26 am : link
EDGE rushers are pretty hard to find and even when you find them they can be gameplanned against. Just because the Bucs won the SB doesn't mean we should scrap everything and do what they do. WE don't have the Bucs or Chiefs offense - both allow them leeway on defense. Bucs also got to feast on an injured OLine, so there's that too.

We make the playoffs last year with a competent CB2 in all likelihood. Having flexibility in the secondary achieves 2 things - multiple looks and insurance against injury to a unit that's easily the most vulnerable if a couple guys get banged up.
The Chiefs...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/6/2021 8:26 am : link
made the Super Bowl on the strength of their offense. They had a worse defense than us and were 14th against the pass.

What possible point is trying to be made discussing their CB's??

RE: The Chiefs...  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/6/2021 8:39 am : link
In comment 15210889 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
made the Super Bowl on the strength of their offense. They had a worse defense than us and were 14th against the pass.

What possible point is trying to be made discussing their CB's??


All I’m saying is you don’t need two corners making 10 mill a year. It’s not a smart way to construct a team. We would of been fine with Bradberry, a stopgap, and a 2nd round corner.
A smart..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/6/2021 8:43 am : link
way to construct a team would be to have a dominant unit. Plus, investing in DB's is actually looked at from an analytics standpoint as a wise use of resources.

We don't have an offense as potent as the Chiefs, but if we can get a really strong D, we can be a much better team. The second DB spot was a hole.
we'd be fine, maybe  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2021 8:46 am : link
maybe not. Judge, Graham and Gettelman are all in on multiples, and protecting against the big passing plays. This league is constantly evolving and IMO this is a sound strategy to combat it due to its versatility.

This will work out if Adoree Jackson plays well, simple as that IMO. Adding Surtain I'd be all for as it will further strengthen a strength and safeguard this in future years when players get injured or released.
My issue is poster  
allstarjim : 4/6/2021 9:46 am : link
Saying CB2 isn't a premium position. Well, to NFL teams it is.

Saying you shouldn't spend $10M or more per year on 2 corners, that is a subjective argument. The Giants felt it was worth it as has other teams in the past.

In terms of Edge, the Patriots have pieced together their pass rush in recent years with unheralded players to success. The early indication is that seems to be what Judge wants to do here, but we will see.
RE: My issue is poster  
Judge_and_Jury : 4/6/2021 11:17 am : link
In comment 15210991 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Saying CB2 isn't a premium position. Well, to NFL teams it is.

Saying you shouldn't spend $10M or more per year on 2 corners, that is a subjective argument. The Giants felt it was worth it as has other teams in the past.

In terms of Edge, the Patriots have pieced together their pass rush in recent years with unheralded players to success. The early indication is that seems to be what Judge wants to do here, but we will see.


It absolutely is. The 4 top positions are QB,LT,Edge,CB. In our position, I only take Surtain if he is obvious BPA though as we have much higher needs on the team.
RE: RE: The Chiefs...  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2021 11:27 am : link
In comment 15210894 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15210889 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


made the Super Bowl on the strength of their offense. They had a worse defense than us and were 14th against the pass.

What possible point is trying to be made discussing their CB's??




All I’m saying is you don’t need two corners making 10 mill a year. It’s not a smart way to construct a team. We would of been fine with Bradberry, a stopgap, and a 2nd round corner.


Who cares what they make as long as they produce at a high level? It’s not going to prohibit us, money-wise, moving forward, imv
Guys  
Sy'56 : 4/6/2021 11:33 am : link
Just my opinion

Ignoring a player because he plays a certain position, especially a player that can really help this team, is foolish.

Some of you guys argue just so you can be heard, rather than just agreeing to disagree with which direction NYG should go with a specific pick or allocation of money.

If you think about it, you are acting in a way in which you hate someone else for doing.

This is our world, though. Sad.
RE: My issue is poster  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/6/2021 11:33 am : link
In comment 15210991 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Saying CB2 isn't a premium position. Well, to NFL teams it is.

Saying you shouldn't spend $10M or more per year on 2 corners, that is a subjective argument. The Giants felt it was worth it as has other teams in the past.

In terms of Edge, the Patriots have pieced together their pass rush in recent years with unheralded players to success. The early indication is that seems to be what Judge wants to do here, but we will see.


What data are you providing to say CB2 is a premium position? Giving random CB pairing isn’t an example.
Because it’s a passing league and CB1  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2021 11:40 am : link
Can only cover 1 player. Most good offenses have 2 legit WRs and then some.
RE: Because it’s a passing league and CB1  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/6/2021 11:44 am : link
In comment 15211174 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Can only cover 1 player. Most good offenses have 2 legit WRs and then some.


Again there is no data to back up that claim. I’m not saying CB2 isn’t important. You need a competent starter there. But there is no data to support that it’s a “premium” position.
A lot of people say Right Tackle  
Sy'56 : 4/6/2021 11:50 am : link
isn't a premium position.

You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.

Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.

Get good players in your system, end of discussion.
RE: A lot of people say Right Tackle  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/6/2021 11:54 am : link
In comment 15211185 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
isn't a premium position.

You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.

Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.

Get good players in your system, end of discussion.


Tampa isn’t paying a premium at both positions either. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.
RE: RE: A lot of people say Right Tackle  
Sy'56 : 4/6/2021 11:59 am : link
In comment 15211191 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15211185 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


isn't a premium position.

You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.

Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.

Get good players in your system, end of discussion.



Tampa isn’t paying a premium at both positions either. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.


Premium isn't only about finances....it is about assets used
RE: RE: Because it’s a passing league and CB1  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2021 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15211178 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15211174 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


Can only cover 1 player. Most good offenses have 2 legit WRs and then some.



Again there is no data to back up that claim. I’m not saying CB2 isn’t important. You need a competent starter there. But there is no data to support that it’s a “premium” position.


I don’t care about data to be perfectly honest with you. I saw our shutdown CB last year, and what the guy opposite did and to me it looks like something we would want to upgrade (which we did in FA) and I have no problem doubling down on that with Surtain.
RE: RE: RE: A lot of people say Right Tackle  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/6/2021 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15211200 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15211191 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15211185 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


isn't a premium position.

You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.

Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.

Get good players in your system, end of discussion.



Tampa isn’t paying a premium at both positions either. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.



Premium isn't only about finances....it is about assets used



Tampa hit on their RT in the first round with Wills. I would have preferred the Giants taken a CB1 (preferably Surtain, but Horn or Farley as well) than spend $25 mill guaranteed on Jackson. What would you have done Sy?
RE: RE: RE: Because it’s a passing league and CB1  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/6/2021 12:10 pm : link
In comment 15211212 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15211178 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15211174 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


Can only cover 1 player. Most good offenses have 2 legit WRs and then some.



Again there is no data to back up that claim. I’m not saying CB2 isn’t important. You need a competent starter there. But there is no data to support that it’s a “premium” position.



I don’t care about data to be perfectly honest with you. I saw our shutdown CB last year, and what the guy opposite did and to me it looks like something we would want to upgrade (which we did in FA) and I have no problem doubling down on that with Surtain.


My issue is paying Jackson 25 mill guaranteed when we could of gotten a good player in the first rounds of the draft. The optimal chance for me would of been taking Surtain at 11. He’s a Day 1 starter IMO.
We don’t know the Giants CB grades  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2021 12:26 pm : link
and if said CBs will be there. You can keep posting the money but it really doesn’t change their strategy, they will continue to invest heavily in the secondary, IMO and picking Surtain helps both now and in the future.
RE: RE: RE: RE: A lot of people say Right Tackle  
Sy'56 : 4/6/2021 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15211213 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15211200 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 15211191 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15211185 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


isn't a premium position.

You just need to be strong at left tackle don't need a good one on the other side.

Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Champ, disagrees.

Get good players in your system, end of discussion.



Tampa isn’t paying a premium at both positions either. So it’s not an apples to apples comparison.



Premium isn't only about finances....it is about assets used




Tampa hit on their RT in the first round with Wills. I would have preferred the Giants taken a CB1 (preferably Surtain, but Horn or Farley as well) than spend $25 mill guaranteed on Jackson. What would you have done Sy?


*Wirfs

Jackson wasn't a bad signing, if that is what the debate is. And I still think it is possible NYG goes for CB again at 11 if the value is right.
RE: We don’t know the Giants CB grades  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/6/2021 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15211245 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and if said CBs will be there. You can keep posting the money but it really doesn’t change their strategy, they will continue to invest heavily in the secondary, IMO and picking Surtain helps both now and in the future.


Paying Jackson and drafting Surtain in the first isn’t a good use of resources. IMO you can mark off a first round corner. The team still has needs at Edge, on the O-Line. I think they go here with their first round pick.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A lot of people say Right Tackle  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/6/2021 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15211246 Sy'56 said:
Quote:


*Wirfs

Jackson wasn't a bad signing, if that is what the debate is. And I still think it is possible NYG goes for CB again at 11 if the value is right.


My bad, I definitely meant Tristan Wirfs.
Depth  
AcesUp : 4/6/2021 12:49 pm : link
Corner is probably the position group where depth is of the most importance. You can maybe make the case for OL but that probably has to do with the dearth of NFL quality lineman in the league. CBs are smaller and twitchier guys that tend to get injured, you need depth because the cliche that you're only as strong as your weakest link does hold water in the secondary. I wouldn't throw a fit if they went with Surtain.

Having said all that, odds are that a player with similar grade is sitting there at 11 at a position of greater short term and/or longterm need. I'd put the immediate needs at Edge, OL and LB well above that of CB. I'd say the immediate need is much closer at WR/TE but significantly higher longer term given the tenuous status of Engram and Shep.
For those wanting Surtain  
fanatic II : 4/12/2021 12:48 pm : link
There has been a lot of chatter about Dallas liking Horn over Surtain.

This could all be smoke, but my gut tells me it's true.

If this is true, Surtain will be available at 11.
Back to the Corner