In Dave Gettleman's past three drafts as GM, he has selected 27 players with 2/3 of them on the defensive side of the ball:
Secondary 7
Linebacker 6
Defensive Line 5
Offensive Lineman 5
Quarterback 2
Wide Receiver 1
Running Back 1
I've seen several Mocks, and some "inside info" about the Giants selecting Pass Rusher / EDGE with their first pick.
Who knows? Maybe this will represent the best value at 11 and/or maybe adding another pass rush dimension will really make this defense special in 2021.
But whether or not the Giants select an EDGE player with their first pick doesn't come close to what Giants fans should be tossing and turning over late at night. Not close.
That would be our offense that hit the trifecta ranking 31st in Point per Game (17.5), Yards per Game (319) and First Downs per Game (18.6).
This Draft should be all about the offense. We need more lineman; we need more receivers; we need another top-end running back; and we could use a young two-way TE. That's at least 4 offensive players right there, and the Giants have only 6 picks.
I have an eye on trading Engram for a late second round/early third round pick, but I don't know what he's worth.
Round 1: OG Rashawn Slater (11).
Round 2: Either Edges Carlos Basham or Patrick Jones. (42)
Trade: Trade Evan Engram to Rams for Pick no. 57 in second round or Jets or Texans for pick no. 66 or 67. Use to draft TE Pat Freiermuth (57) or TE Hunter Long (66 or 67).
Round 3: WR Sage Surratt (76).
Round 4: RB/FB Rhamondre Stevenson (116).
Round 6: ILB Nate Landman (196), OLB Sam Williams (201).
That's 4 of 7 draft picks used on offense: a versatile interior OL, an edge who can play anywhere from interior DL and 4-3 DE to stand-up edge (3-4 rushbacker), a two-way tight end, a taller, sure-handed wide receiver, a backup running back who can play fullback, and depth at linebacker who can play on special teams. I'm trying to be multiple here.
And the #2, #4, and #6 overall picks got us three good players. And we've acquired a few more as well. However, it takes 11 to make a good offense. On the other hand, we have acquired at least 11 starting quality players plus some good depth players on defense as the performance of our defense last year showed.
Barkley missed practically all of last season and several games the year before. Will he return to full form after a serious knee injury? And will he even make it to a second contract with the Giants?
Daniel Jones had a very fine rookie season and a bad sophomore season. He does some things well; others not so well; and no one knows for sure if he is the right QB.
Andrew Thomas stumbled out of the gate and then improved second half of season. Will he continue to grow in Year Two?
And Will Hernandez was over-drafted and he's a mediocre long-term answer at Guard. At best.
So, where does that 6,580 points of offensive draft board value leave the Giants? Behind the 8-ball with a desperate need to upgrade their offensive talent in the 2021 NFL Draft.
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And helping the offense in the draft is prudent.
I just do not think....it is a good idea to go into a draft with a pre-concieved agenda...drafting position....vs drafting players.
They must be ultra prepared...
They must maximize value...by going BPA and trading picks (up or down) when it makes sense.
This draft has higher risk....but will also offer higher rewards....
We know...
Kissing Zeitler hurts...
Is it his mustache?
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Glad I wasn't taking a sip of coffee
We would end up with #23, #34, our own #42, #50, our own #76, #81, & #196
My dream draft if we can't get Kyle Pitts at 11:
23) T/G-Teven Jenkins
34) RB-Najee Harris
42) TE-Pat Freiermuth
50) G/C-Quinn Meinerz
76) WR-Nico Collins
81) TE-Hunter Long
196) DL-Tadarrell Slaton
It sets the tone for our culture as a tough team. We have the bolts now we need the nuts. I thought the value just wasn't there from 10 to 22 or so. I got rid of Engram the coach killer, and with a late 1st rounder, three 2nd round picks and two 3rd round picks I knew we'd be loaded up to take advantage of the value and depth on the O-line. I went after two guys who are talented, versitile, and mean as hell.
It was also a goal to position us to be able to restock our TE group with the only two 2-way TEs in this draft who are both in the 6-5 255 range and from two of our favorite north east schools. Tight Ends are so important for a run based offense and it's about time we got some real 2-way threats. With Rudolph and Toilolo as seasoned vet teachers we'd be in good shape with Freiermuth, Long, and Smith as understudys.
Najee Harris gives us everything we'd want in a backup for Saquon, including being a viable replacement as our feature back without having such a pronounced drop-off inn talent should SB not make it back, goes down again, or just needs a breather. It also gives us a fallback option should Barkley choose to sign elsewhere next year. Our RB coach had him at Alabama and he is a great guy to have on the team. 6-2 235 with a lot of talent.
Nico Collins would give us a guy that could be used like Golladay if he can't go. Lots of size and talent to work with.
Tadarrell Slaton gives us a guy who is almost as big as Dexter Lawrence. He can occupy blockers. Glad they signed Danny Shelton because I don't ever want to see Lawrence at NT for any length of time.
We would end up with #23, #34, our own #42, #50, our own #76, #81, & #196
My dream draft if we can't get Kyle Pitts at 11:
23) T/G-Teven Jenkins
34) RB-Najee Harris
42) TE-Pat Freiermuth
50) G/C-Quinn Meinerz
76) WR-Nico Collins
81) TE-Hunter Long
196) DL-Tadarrell Slaton
It sets the tone for our culture as a tough team. We have the bolts now we need the nuts. I thought the value just wasn't there from 10 to 22 or so. I got rid of Engram the coach killer, and with a late 1st rounder, three 2nd round picks and two 3rd round picks I knew we'd be loaded up to take advantage of the value and depth on the O-line. I went after two guys who are talented, versitile, and mean as hell.
It was also a goal to position us to be able to restock our TE group with the only two 2-way TEs in this draft who are both in the 6-5 255 range and from two of our favorite north east schools. Tight Ends are so important for a run based offense and it's about time we got some real 2-way threats. With Rudolph and Toilolo as seasoned vet teachers we'd be in good shape with Freiermuth, Long, and Smith as understudys.
Najee Harris gives us everything we'd want in a backup for Saquon, including being a viable replacement as our feature back without having such a pronounced drop-off inn talent should SB not make it back, goes down again, or just needs a breather. It also gives us a fallback option should Barkley choose to sign elsewhere next year. Our RB coach had him at Alabama and he is a great guy to have on the team. 6-2 235 with a lot of talent.
Nico Collins would give us a guy that could be used like Golladay if he can't go. Lots of size and talent to work with.
Tadarrell Slaton gives us a guy who is almost as big as Dexter Lawrence. He can occupy blockers. Glad they signed Danny Shelton because I don't ever want to see Lawrence at NT for any length of time.
Works for me! This is the kind of draft we can dream of as far as I’m concerned. But, hard to see it happening.
If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?
If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?
I would then go defense as bpa, but I feel like even bpa is not valued right at #11 if the pass-catchers are gone. I would then be eager to move down and pick among a slew of equivalent bpas
If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?
I would agree on defense in this case. But the idea that there will be a singular BPA at 11 is a question as well. Likely, even at 11, they will have 2 or 3 players they rank closely enough for any to be "BPA" given all of these rankings are subjective at some level. That may give them the flexibility to stay with their priorities.
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If you're hellbent on drafting the best offensive player, when the actual BPA could well be defense, you're drafting for need and shorting yourself on talent.
If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?
I would agree on defense in this case. But the idea that there will be a singular BPA at 11 is a question as well. Likely, even at 11, they will have 2 or 3 players they rank closely enough for any to be "BPA" given all of these rankings are subjective at some level. That may give them the flexibility to stay with their priorities.
Understood, but if we accept the info out there it suggests they are targeting receivers, all of whom could be gone at #11. Possibly Waddle is there because of the ankle, for example. Their choice is very likely between Waddle and Edge, unless Surtain is there somehow and is too hard to pass up. I don't think any other position on offense will factor in at #11, given what we think we know. OL factors in at #42, a lot of good corners could be there in the 3rd.
Detroit seems incredibly possible, as they really don't have a young starting caliber WR on the current roster. Miami could very well take one. Cincy badly needs OL, and Atlanta doesn't seem like they will go WR, their defense is atrocious and if anything, Pitts is a better fit there
I would agree on defense in this case. But the idea that there will be a singular BPA at 11 is a question as well. Likely, even at 11, they will have 2 or 3 players they rank closely enough for any to be "BPA" given all of these rankings are subjective at some level. That may give them the flexibility to stay with their priorities.
Understood, but if we accept the info out there it suggests they are targeting receivers, all of whom could be gone at #11. Possibly Waddle is there because of the ankle, for example. Their choice is very likely between Waddle and Edge, unless Surtain is there somehow and is too hard to pass up. I don't think any other position on offense will factor in at #11, given what we think we know. OL factors in at #42, a lot of good corners could be there in the 3rd.
I think that's exactly right. I think Waddle is going to be really good and available at 11 so Waddle or Edge and it's Waddle for me. I don't think CB is in play at all at 11 no matter who.
Getting a difference maker at ER is a missing piece for this defense--but that is a need as well--I say fill it. But the offense as a whole, as the OP points out, is across many positions a disaster area, vix. its next-to-worst placement 2020. So, there are many needs; get the BPAs at those spots.
Fully with Klaatu that neither of the team's Leonard Floyds-in-waiting is a Leonard Floyd, eminently expendable.
If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?
Don't lose sight of this. BPA in round 1, that high, is the way to go.
The sense I get is that the Giants themselves believe that any major improvement in the offense in 2021 is going to come from in-house. Jones has to play better; guys like Saquon, Shep and Slater have to get healthy; the young OTs have to hold up etc. and there really isn't a whole lot in that the picks from this year's draft are going to necessarily impact. The only position in which there might be a major upgrade would be OG, but is adding another rookie to the OL really going to move the goalposts all that far, especially after the opening round.
One of the things we have been trying to do this year is to get people thinking less about positions per and more about what it takes to be a championship team in the NFL. And just about everyone will tell you you have to be able the throw the ball and you have to be able to rush the passer to some extent.
And yeah the defense played well enough last year but it was in many ways deceptive in that their approach was a very soft, vanilla bend but don't break type approach that didn't result in many turnovers or 3 and outs with the result far too many times in games where their opponents didn't necessarily score a lot of points, the Giants still lost the time of possession and field position battles.
And in 2020 not only did the Giants not have a much of a pass rush, especially late in games when you really needed one, but they really don't have any players, maybe outside Williams, even with any realistic potential to rush the passer. And the thing with edge rushers if you don't get one early in the draft you aren't likely to get one later unless you get really lucky and hoping ain't a plan!
In the past two drafts, the Giants drafted the QB and LT they probably felt were the best options available to them in the draft. I think they reached on both, relative to other prospects/positions/talent available. It's why I hate drafting for need. Simply seeing hole/filling hole rarely delivers maximum output in the NFL.
Be interesting to see if they add CB/DB help to make it harder to pass against them and add an EDGE in the first two rounds
or just Edge/OL/Wr in some array
Something tells me their late second dip into the FA market for a McCourty or a Trai Turner/other OL will give us a clue.
I suspect the list of who they talk to and visit will be all over the map of positions...as it should be
I don't want to read too much into it, but it was interesting to note that when Chris Petitt went to the Georgia pro day everyone kind of lasered on Az Ojulari, but the guy who went with Petitt wasn't the DL or LB coach it was the DB coach and UGA has a couple of really good second round type CB prospects in Eric Stokes and Tyson Campbell.
The good news we'll find out for sure in what now 24 days!!
Too bad you're not making the picks. Damn.
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I wanted Josh Allen (Edge) or Devin Bush at #6 in 2019 (was good with the Dexter pick, saw it coming a mile away), and Justin Herbert at #4 in 2020.
Too bad you're not making the picks. Damn.
I was leaning Rashan Gary instead of Dexter, but good with the pick.
Prior to the draft I said that same thing almost (Herbert or someone body not in 2019) and everyone got mad and said that there was no way we could count on getting a QB in 2020, so take the one (Haskins, I think) while you could.
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I wanted Josh Allen (Edge) or Devin Bush at #6 in 2019 (was good with the Dexter pick, saw it coming a mile away), and Justin Herbert at #4 in 2020.
Prior to the draft I said that same thing almost (Herbert or someone body not in 2019) and everyone got mad and said that there was no way we could count on getting a QB in 2020, so take the one (Haskins, I think) while you could.
Once we paid Eli that bonus in 3/19 taking a QB made no sense. The scenario JonC paints is completely realistic; imagine if we'd gone that way.
The good news is, Jones and Thomas have time to prove themselves worthy of staying put.
Because filling holes in 2021 that would holes in 2018-2020 is torture.
I would prefer Edge or OL over a WR at this point.
But we'll see.
But what did Giants do?
They ignored trade opportunities, highlighted an early RB pick with a poor roster, and then couldn’t wait and reached for Jones. I kind of chuckle at the posters that cheered DG having such conviction in 2019 to take DJ. He may certainly do okay but certainly didn’t need to go #6.
Paying Eli and picking Jones...Really??
Interesting insights, including where the Giants are scouting and who is actually attending sessions! Definitely suggests going defense.
And for sure our pass rush was scary last season, and not in a good way. So, maybe we do go EDGE at #11. Makes sense.
My obsession with offense this Draft is 3-fold:
(1) Despite high draft picks devoted to QB, OT and RB, Gettleman didn't hit it out of the ballpark with Daniel Jones and Andrew Thomas (although time will tell.) And injury has derailed the Saquon Barkley train.
(2) Gettleman's Drafts have yielded only 1/3 of players on the offensive side of the ball, which is too skewed IMO, and a bottom-rung offense is crying for an infusion of young new Draft talent;
(3) A pretty good Giants defense will get even better without changing a thing -- so long as the offense plays competent ball and gains some semblance of rhythm thus regaining control of the time clock.
Then of course we have the other positions of desperate need on offense, WR, OL. What I'm struggling to say is that: by all means avoid the default going for the 'desperate need' is not as black and white as it sounds, real time in the draft room, shades of gray.
This often winds up being a player who's less Khalil Mack and more Kyle Van Noy (or insert Patriots or Rams Edge players here).
Getting a difference maker at ER is a missing piece for this defense--but that is a need as well--I say fill it. But the offense as a whole, as the OP points out, is across many positions a disaster area, vix. its next-to-worst placement 2020. So, there are many needs; get the BPAs at those spots.
Fully with Klaatu that neither of the team's Leonard Floyds-in-waiting is a Leonard Floyd, eminently expendable.
The Giants are married to a bunch of guys on offense whether we like it or not. These guys were either drafted to be core players or given a boatload in FA to be impact players. They need to show up and produce.
This teams needs at least 1, really 2 edges in the worst way. I wouldn’t be opposed to drafting two ER’s in the draft at some point. They’re not going to fill that in FA and they’re not going to magically scheme pressure like some people continue to claim they will. They also could use a talented replacement for Tomlinson and another LB.
Look, I’m not opposed to drafting offense later in the draft when the value is there. They need OL help. They could use a backup RB and TE. They could use another WR.
But if they burn a premium pick on Waddle or Smith, what was the point of paying Golloday 18 mil per? If you draft Pitts, what’s the point of Engram and overpaying Rudolph? The same logic applies to Surtain on the defensive side considering what they paid Bradberry and what they just paid Jackson.
Edge makes the most sense early. It’s a glaring need with no solution on the horizon and they’ll likely have their choice of any ER in the class.
If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?
The problem is
1-- Many of us like Slater who seems to be in that range of a little before 11 or a little after.
2-- So much so many of lean slightly toward Slater being BPA vs the Edges.
3-- Many of us are concerned with statements like "The Giants seems satisfied with their OL" as asshat pointed out. As a result, they may very well bypass BPA for need by taking the Edge.
4-- The Giants 1st round picks have been very underwhelming the last 3 years considering the positions they've drafted in. It doesn't mean it has sucked . . . yet - and it could wind up being very good . . . but right now it's bene underwhelming.
SO we have a natural fear they are going to make another underwhelming pick as they have shown that pension the last 3 years.
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****Hopefully they get it right. But sorry to the OP and other Giant fans hopeful for offense being drafted in round 1-- imo it looks like Kwity Paye as asshat suggested too. And they are one trillion more in the know than I ever can. But this Kwity Paye has "conservative type of Giants pick" written all over it. We don't seem to get lucky when an extremely high player most of us love falls into our laps.
The sense I get is that the Giants themselves believe that any major improvement in the offense in 2021 is going to come from in-house. Jones has to play better; guys like Saquon, Shep and Slater have to get healthy; the young OTs have to hold up etc. and there really isn't a whole lot in that the picks from this year's draft are going to necessarily impact. The only position in which there might be a major upgrade would be OG, but is adding another rookie to the OL really going to move the goalposts all that far, especially after the opening round.
One of the things we have been trying to do this year is to get people thinking less about positions per and more about what it takes to be a championship team in the NFL. And just about everyone will tell you you have to be able the throw the ball and you have to be able to rush the passer to some extent.
Possibly yes drafting a terrific guard would. Why wouldn't it? IF IF IF he is highly valued then he locks down a guard position. Now at the other guard position you have several players competing.
So we're pretty good at LT and Center. And if you have confidence in Peart/Solder being okay then how doesn't this help Barkley and Jones near exponentially?
IF IF IF IF Slater is a very highly rated guard why wouldn't this help Barkley immensely? Wouldn't giving Barkley a much better OLINE make him among the most feared RB's in the NFL vs the current mediocre line in terms of you could break him out? He is someone who needs space, doesn't he? SO if we aren't going to build up the inside with nothing but hope and even our RT is nothing but hope what's the chance of success?
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The sense I get is that the Giants themselves believe that any major improvement in the offense in 2021 is going to come from in-house. Jones has to play better; guys like Saquon, Shep and Slater have to get healthy; the young OTs have to hold up etc. and there really isn't a whole lot in that the picks from this year's draft are going to necessarily impact. The only position in which there might be a major upgrade would be OG, but is adding another rookie to the OL really going to move the goalposts all that far, especially after the opening round.
One of the things we have been trying to do this year is to get people thinking less about positions per and more about what it takes to be a championship team in the NFL. And just about everyone will tell you you have to be able the throw the ball and you have to be able to rush the passer to some extent.
Possibly yes drafting a terrific guard would. Why wouldn't it? IF IF IF he is highly valued then he locks down a guard position. Now at the other guard position you have several players competing.
So we're pretty good at LT and Center. And if you have confidence in Peart/Solder being okay then how doesn't this help Barkley and Jones near exponentially?
IF IF IF IF Slater is a very highly rated guard why wouldn't this help Barkley immensely? Wouldn't giving Barkley a much better OLINE make him among the most feared RB's in the NFL vs the current mediocre line in terms of you could break him out? He is someone who needs space, doesn't he? SO if we aren't going to build up the inside with nothing but hope and even our RT is nothing but hope what's the chance of success?
Slater is a Tackle ... He could suck at Guard for all we know.
You don't chase needs with early draft picks
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In comment 15210072 Colin@gbn said:
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The sense I get is that the Giants themselves believe that any major improvement in the offense in 2021 is going to come from in-house. Jones has to play better; guys like Saquon, Shep and Slater have to get healthy; the young OTs have to hold up etc. and there really isn't a whole lot in that the picks from this year's draft are going to necessarily impact. The only position in which there might be a major upgrade would be OG, but is adding another rookie to the OL really going to move the goalposts all that far, especially after the opening round.
One of the things we have been trying to do this year is to get people thinking less about positions per and more about what it takes to be a championship team in the NFL. And just about everyone will tell you you have to be able the throw the ball and you have to be able to rush the passer to some extent.
Possibly yes drafting a terrific guard would. Why wouldn't it? IF IF IF he is highly valued then he locks down a guard position. Now at the other guard position you have several players competing.
So we're pretty good at LT and Center. And if you have confidence in Peart/Solder being okay then how doesn't this help Barkley and Jones near exponentially?
IF IF IF IF Slater is a very highly rated guard why wouldn't this help Barkley immensely? Wouldn't giving Barkley a much better OLINE make him among the most feared RB's in the NFL vs the current mediocre line in terms of you could break him out? He is someone who needs space, doesn't he? SO if we aren't going to build up the inside with nothing but hope and even our RT is nothing but hope what's the chance of success?
Slater is a Tackle ... He could suck at Guard for all we know.
Many places that I'm reading are saying he'll be a guard in the NFL. .
For all we know any player can suck or take a hit and it's all over.
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If you're hellbent on drafting the best offensive player, when the actual BPA could well be defense, you're drafting for need and shorting yourself on talent.
If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?
\
The problem is
1-- Many of us like Slater who seems to be in that range of a little before 11 or a little after.
2-- So much so many of lean slightly toward Slater being BPA vs the Edges.
3-- Many of us are concerned with statements like "The Giants seems satisfied with their OL" as asshat pointed out. As a result, they may very well bypass BPA for need by taking the Edge.
4-- The Giants 1st round picks have been very underwhelming the last 3 years considering the positions they've drafted in. It doesn't mean it has sucked . . . yet - and it could wind up being very good . . . but right now it's bene underwhelming.
SO we have a natural fear they are going to make another underwhelming pick as they have shown that pension the last 3 years.
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****Hopefully they get it right. But sorry to the OP and other Giant fans hopeful for offense being drafted in round 1-- imo it looks like Kwity Paye as asshat suggested too. And they are one trillion more in the know than I ever can. But this Kwity Paye has "conservative type of Giants pick" written all over it. We don't seem to get lucky when an extremely high player most of us love falls into our laps.
Based on every tea leaf I've come across, they're not looking OL at #11 unless Sewell somehow falls. They're not satisfied with the OL, it remains unfinished. It's just the prospects don't line up with #11, despite the fan love for Slater.
OL should be in the mix starting at #42.
I agree their two most recent premium picks have been mostly average, at best, and I fear Paye would extend the streak.
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In comment 15209902 JonC said:
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If you're hellbent on drafting the best offensive player, when the actual BPA could well be defense, you're drafting for need and shorting yourself on talent.
If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?
\
The problem is
1-- Many of us like Slater who seems to be in that range of a little before 11 or a little after.
2-- So much so many of lean slightly toward Slater being BPA vs the Edges.
3-- Many of us are concerned with statements like "The Giants seems satisfied with their OL" as asshat pointed out. As a result, they may very well bypass BPA for need by taking the Edge.
4-- The Giants 1st round picks have been very underwhelming the last 3 years considering the positions they've drafted in. It doesn't mean it has sucked . . . yet - and it could wind up being very good . . . but right now it's bene underwhelming.
SO we have a natural fear they are going to make another underwhelming pick as they have shown that pension the last 3 years.
------------------------------
****Hopefully they get it right. But sorry to the OP and other Giant fans hopeful for offense being drafted in round 1-- imo it looks like Kwity Paye as asshat suggested too. And they are one trillion more in the know than I ever can. But this Kwity Paye has "conservative type of Giants pick" written all over it. We don't seem to get lucky when an extremely high player most of us love falls into our laps.
Based on every tea leaf I've come across, they're not looking OL at #11 unless Sewell somehow falls. They're not satisfied with the OL, it remains unfinished. It's just the prospects don't line up with #11, despite the fan love for Slater.
OL should be in the mix starting at #42.
I agree their two most recent premium picks have been mostly average, at best, and I fear Paye would extend the streak.