Giants need to emphasize offense in the upcoming draft

Judge and Gettelman have to look at where the team is today; if you're going to be backwards looking, that's as bad as drafting for need alone.

Getting a difference maker at ER is a missing piece for this defense--but that is a need as well--I say fill it. But the offense as a whole, as the OP points out, is across many positions a disaster area, vix. its next-to-worst placement 2020. So, there are many needs; get the BPAs at those spots.
Fully with Klaatu that neither of the team's Leonard Floyds-in-waiting is a Leonard Floyd, eminently expendable.

In comment 15209902 JonC said:

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If you're hellbent on drafting the best offensive player, when the actual BPA could well be defense, you're drafting for need and shorting yourself on talent. If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?

Don't lose sight of this. BPA in round 1, that high, is the way to go.

Good thread M.S. with interesting comments. And given 2020 what you are suggesting certainly makes a ton of sense, but given a) the info that GoDeep provided on another thread a couple of days ago, combined with b) that literally every pro day visit made a senior Giants rep this year were to programs in which all the top prospects played defense, its not to get the feeling the Giants themselves are thinking D, with the proviso at least at #11 that they'd take one of the top receivers if they made it that.

The sense I get is that the Giants themselves believe that any major improvement in the offense in 2021 is going to come from in-house. Jones has to play better; guys like Saquon, Shep and Slater have to get healthy; the young OTs have to hold up etc. and there really isn't a whole lot in that the picks from this year's draft are going to necessarily impact. The only position in which there might be a major upgrade would be OG, but is adding another rookie to the OL really going to move the goalposts all that far, especially after the opening round.

One of the things we have been trying to do this year is to get people thinking less about positions per and more about what it takes to be a championship team in the NFL. And just about everyone will tell you you have to be able the throw the ball and you have to be able to rush the passer to some extent.

And yeah the defense played well enough last year but it was in many ways deceptive in that their approach was a very soft, vanilla bend but don't break type approach that didn't result in many turnovers or 3 and outs with the result far too many times in games where their opponents didn't necessarily score a lot of points, the Giants still lost the time of possession and field position battles.

And in 2020 not only did the Giants not have a much of a pass rush, especially late in games when you really needed one, but they really don't have any players, maybe outside Williams, even with any realistic potential to rush the passer. And the thing with edge rushers if you don't get one early in the draft you aren't likely to get one later unless you get really lucky and hoping ain't a plan!

totally agree and would add it's not about drafting a position, it's about drafting the player who will be part of a championship winning formula.

In the past two drafts, the Giants drafted the QB and LT they probably felt were the best options available to them in the draft. I think they reached on both, relative to other prospects/positions/talent available. It's why I hate drafting for need. Simply seeing hole/filling hole rarely delivers maximum output in the NFL.

Thank you

Be interesting to see if they add CB/DB help to make it harder to pass against them and add an EDGE in the first two rounds

or just Edge/OL/Wr in some array

Something tells me their late second dip into the FA market for a McCourty or a Trai Turner/other OL will give us a clue.

I suspect the list of who they talk to and visit will be all over the map of positions...as it should be

Bill: I was actually thinking about adding a para or two along those lines. GoDeep suggested that the Giants are thinking they would consider trading back up into the late first to get an edge if one of the receivers was there at #11. One he didn't was what would be the plan if the Giants did get an edge early.It certainly wouldn't shock me if the thy took a corner at that point. Fact is you need 3-4 good corners in this day and age because so many teams run multiple receiver sets at you and with the Giants there is a big drop-off after Bradberry and Jackson.

I don't want to read too much into it, but it was interesting to note that when Chris Petitt went to the Georgia pro day everyone kind of lasered on Az Ojulari, but the guy who went with Petitt wasn't the DL or LB coach it was the DB coach and UGA has a couple of really good second round type CB prospects in Eric Stokes and Tyson Campbell.

The good news we'll find out for sure in what now 24 days!!

Really good nugget about the Giants and the UGa pro day. Thanks.

You say above that the Giants probably reached for both Jones and Thomas the last two years. Who did you like last year at #4? Who do you think represented the best value?

I wanted Josh Allen (Edge) or Devin Bush at #6 in 2019 (was good with the Dexter pick, saw it coming a mile away), and Justin Herbert at #4 in 2020.

were actually very interested in Ben Cleveland at Guard.

In comment 15210183 JonC said:

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I wanted Josh Allen (Edge) or Devin Bush at #6 in 2019 (was good with the Dexter pick, saw it coming a mile away), and Justin Herbert at #4 in 2020.

Too bad you're not making the picks. Damn.

In comment 15210199 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15210183 JonC said: Quote: I wanted Josh Allen (Edge) or Devin Bush at #6 in 2019 (was good with the Dexter pick, saw it coming a mile away), and Justin Herbert at #4 in 2020. Too bad you're not making the picks. Damn.

I was leaning Rashan Gary instead of Dexter, but good with the pick.

In comment 15210183 JonC said:

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I wanted Josh Allen (Edge) or Devin Bush at #6 in 2019 (was good with the Dexter pick, saw it coming a mile away), and Justin Herbert at #4 in 2020.

Prior to the draft I said that same thing almost (Herbert or someone body not in 2019) and everyone got mad and said that there was no way we could count on getting a QB in 2020, so take the one (Haskins, I think) while you could.

In comment 15210224 Bill L said:

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In comment 15210183 JonC said: Quote: I wanted Josh Allen (Edge) or Devin Bush at #6 in 2019 (was good with the Dexter pick, saw it coming a mile away), and Justin Herbert at #4 in 2020. Prior to the draft I said that same thing almost (Herbert or someone body not in 2019) and everyone got mad and said that there was no way we could count on getting a QB in 2020, so take the one (Haskins, I think) while you could.

Once we paid Eli that bonus in 3/19 taking a QB made no sense. The scenario JonC paints is completely realistic; imagine if we'd gone that way.

I had the same argument with many re: both picks. And, this is why simply picking the best available at a position of desperate need isn't a great strategy. Don't shop for groceries starving and desperate.

The good news is, Jones and Thomas have time to prove themselves worthy of staying put.

trying to relive and alter the past?

especially for a struggling franchise.

he's done that.

and also that the perspective regarding drafting improves.

Because filling holes in 2021 that would holes in 2018-2020 is torture.

in Free Agency and the Giants turning away from where they have traditionally looked, I think we'll be ok.

I would prefer Edge or OL over a WR at this point.

But we'll see.

really beyond 2016...the Giants weren’t good enough around him for the team to really compete. So if they didn’t have balls to end it with him, the best thing would have been to start building a talented O & D and just let him play out his deal. And when the franchise QB came into focus, jump for him.

But what did Giants do?

They ignored trade opportunities, highlighted an early RB pick with a poor roster, and then couldn’t wait and reached for Jones. I kind of chuckle at the posters that cheered DG having such conviction in 2019 to take DJ. He may certainly do okay but certainly didn’t need to go #6.

Paying Eli and picking Jones...Really??

Interesting insights, including where the Giants are scouting and who is actually attending sessions! Definitely suggests going defense.

And for sure our pass rush was scary last season, and not in a good way. So, maybe we do go EDGE at #11. Makes sense.

My obsession with offense this Draft is 3-fold:

(1) Despite high draft picks devoted to QB, OT and RB, Gettleman didn't hit it out of the ballpark with Daniel Jones and Andrew Thomas (although time will tell.) And injury has derailed the Saquon Barkley train.

(2) Gettleman's Drafts have yielded only 1/3 of players on the offensive side of the ball, which is too skewed IMO, and a bottom-rung offense is crying for an infusion of young new Draft talent;

(3) A pretty good Giants defense will get even better without changing a thing -- so long as the offense plays competent ball and gains some semblance of rhythm thus regaining control of the time clock.

I would argue that it is: aside from the fact that Giants' d lacks a bona fide, consistent pass rusher (unless you want to classify LW as such, a stretch imo), getting an OLB or other ER with that skill set arguably completes a strong defense, making all the other positions that much more productive. To me in that sense, it's a desperate need two ways. Yet the admonition is not to draft that way, simply take BPA, which could boil down to a Parsons (or gosh, a CB?), let's say, even with his baggage.

Then of course we have the other positions of desperate need on offense, WR, OL. What I'm struggling to say is that: by all means avoid the default going for the 'desperate need' is not as black and white as it sounds, real time in the draft room, shades of gray.

I think it's a clear yes, but the skill set looks different. They want extra athleticism, to flip the hips, change of direction abilities to cover and back pedal. If he's also able to play downhill and pressure the passer, then he brings the multiple they're looking for.

This often winds up being a player who's less Khalil Mack and more Kyle Van Noy (or insert Patriots or Rams Edge players here).

In comment 15210018 ColHowPepper said:

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Judge and Gettelman have to look at where the team is today; if you're going to be backwards looking, that's as bad as drafting for need alone. Getting a difference maker at ER is a missing piece for this defense--but that is a need as well--I say fill it. But the offense as a whole, as the OP points out, is across many positions a disaster area, vix. its next-to-worst placement 2020. So, there are many needs; get the BPAs at those spots. Fully with Klaatu that neither of the team's Leonard Floyds-in-waiting is a Leonard Floyd, eminently expendable.

The Giants are married to a bunch of guys on offense whether we like it or not. These guys were either drafted to be core players or given a boatload in FA to be impact players. They need to show up and produce.

This teams needs at least 1, really 2 edges in the worst way. I wouldn’t be opposed to drafting two ER’s in the draft at some point. They’re not going to fill that in FA and they’re not going to magically scheme pressure like some people continue to claim they will. They also could use a talented replacement for Tomlinson and another LB.

Look, I’m not opposed to drafting offense later in the draft when the value is there. They need OL help. They could use a backup RB and TE. They could use another WR.

But if they burn a premium pick on Waddle or Smith, what was the point of paying Golloday 18 mil per? If you draft Pitts, what’s the point of Engram and overpaying Rudolph? The same logic applies to Surtain on the defensive side considering what they paid Bradberry and what they just paid Jackson.

Edge makes the most sense early. It’s a glaring need with no solution on the horizon and they’ll likely have their choice of any ER in the class.

In comment 15209902 JonC said:

Quote:

If you're hellbent on drafting the best offensive player, when the actual BPA could well be defense, you're drafting for need and shorting yourself on talent. If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy?

\

The problem is

1-- Many of us like Slater who seems to be in that range of a little before 11 or a little after.

2-- So much so many of lean slightly toward Slater being BPA vs the Edges.

3-- Many of us are concerned with statements like "The Giants seems satisfied with their OL" as asshat pointed out. As a result, they may very well bypass BPA for need by taking the Edge.

4-- The Giants 1st round picks have been very underwhelming the last 3 years considering the positions they've drafted in. It doesn't mean it has sucked . . . yet - and it could wind up being very good . . . but right now it's bene underwhelming.

SO we have a natural fear they are going to make another underwhelming pick as they have shown that pension the last 3 years.
------------------------------

****Hopefully they get it right. But sorry to the OP and other Giant fans hopeful for offense being drafted in round 1-- imo it looks like Kwity Paye as asshat suggested too. And they are one trillion more in the know than I ever can. But this Kwity Paye has "conservative type of Giants pick" written all over it. We don't seem to get lucky when an extremely high player most of us love falls into our laps.

In comment 15210072 Colin@gbn said:

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The sense I get is that the Giants themselves believe that any major improvement in the offense in 2021 is going to come from in-house. Jones has to play better; guys like Saquon, Shep and Slater have to get healthy; the young OTs have to hold up etc. and there really isn't a whole lot in that the picks from this year's draft are going to necessarily impact. The only position in which there might be a major upgrade would be OG, but is adding another rookie to the OL really going to move the goalposts all that far, especially after the opening round. One of the things we have been trying to do this year is to get people thinking less about positions per and more about what it takes to be a championship team in the NFL. And just about everyone will tell you you have to be able the throw the ball and you have to be able to rush the passer to some extent.

Possibly yes drafting a terrific guard would. Why wouldn't it? IF IF IF he is highly valued then he locks down a guard position. Now at the other guard position you have several players competing.

So we're pretty good at LT and Center. And if you have confidence in Peart/Solder being okay then how doesn't this help Barkley and Jones near exponentially?

IF IF IF IF Slater is a very highly rated guard why wouldn't this help Barkley immensely? Wouldn't giving Barkley a much better OLINE make him among the most feared RB's in the NFL vs the current mediocre line in terms of you could break him out? He is someone who needs space, doesn't he? SO if we aren't going to build up the inside with nothing but hope and even our RT is nothing but hope what's the chance of success?

In comment 15210818 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 15210072 Colin@gbn said: Quote: The sense I get is that the Giants themselves believe that any major improvement in the offense in 2021 is going to come from in-house. Jones has to play better; guys like Saquon, Shep and Slater have to get healthy; the young OTs have to hold up etc. and there really isn't a whole lot in that the picks from this year's draft are going to necessarily impact. The only position in which there might be a major upgrade would be OG, but is adding another rookie to the OL really going to move the goalposts all that far, especially after the opening round. One of the things we have been trying to do this year is to get people thinking less about positions per and more about what it takes to be a championship team in the NFL. And just about everyone will tell you you have to be able the throw the ball and you have to be able to rush the passer to some extent. Possibly yes drafting a terrific guard would. Why wouldn't it? IF IF IF he is highly valued then he locks down a guard position. Now at the other guard position you have several players competing. So we're pretty good at LT and Center. And if you have confidence in Peart/Solder being okay then how doesn't this help Barkley and Jones near exponentially? IF IF IF IF Slater is a very highly rated guard why wouldn't this help Barkley immensely? Wouldn't giving Barkley a much better OLINE make him among the most feared RB's in the NFL vs the current mediocre line in terms of you could break him out? He is someone who needs space, doesn't he? SO if we aren't going to build up the inside with nothing but hope and even our RT is nothing but hope what's the chance of success?

Slater is a Tackle ... He could suck at Guard for all we know.

Or trade down and go BPA.

You don't chase needs with early draft picks

In comment 15210851 LeonBright45 said:

Quote:

In comment 15210818 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15210072 Colin@gbn said: Quote: The sense I get is that the Giants themselves believe that any major improvement in the offense in 2021 is going to come from in-house. Jones has to play better; guys like Saquon, Shep and Slater have to get healthy; the young OTs have to hold up etc. and there really isn't a whole lot in that the picks from this year's draft are going to necessarily impact. The only position in which there might be a major upgrade would be OG, but is adding another rookie to the OL really going to move the goalposts all that far, especially after the opening round. One of the things we have been trying to do this year is to get people thinking less about positions per and more about what it takes to be a championship team in the NFL. And just about everyone will tell you you have to be able the throw the ball and you have to be able to rush the passer to some extent. Possibly yes drafting a terrific guard would. Why wouldn't it? IF IF IF he is highly valued then he locks down a guard position. Now at the other guard position you have several players competing. So we're pretty good at LT and Center. And if you have confidence in Peart/Solder being okay then how doesn't this help Barkley and Jones near exponentially? IF IF IF IF Slater is a very highly rated guard why wouldn't this help Barkley immensely? Wouldn't giving Barkley a much better OLINE make him among the most feared RB's in the NFL vs the current mediocre line in terms of you could break him out? He is someone who needs space, doesn't he? SO if we aren't going to build up the inside with nothing but hope and even our RT is nothing but hope what's the chance of success? Slater is a Tackle ... He could suck at Guard for all we know.

Many places that I'm reading are saying he'll be a guard in the NFL. .

For all we know any player can suck or take a hit and it's all over.

In comment 15210809 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 15209902 JonC said: Quote: If you're hellbent on drafting the best offensive player, when the actual BPA could well be defense, you're drafting for need and shorting yourself on talent. If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy? \ The problem is 1-- Many of us like Slater who seems to be in that range of a little before 11 or a little after. 2-- So much so many of lean slightly toward Slater being BPA vs the Edges. 3-- Many of us are concerned with statements like "The Giants seems satisfied with their OL" as asshat pointed out. As a result, they may very well bypass BPA for need by taking the Edge. 4-- The Giants 1st round picks have been very underwhelming the last 3 years considering the positions they've drafted in. It doesn't mean it has sucked . . . yet - and it could wind up being very good . . . but right now it's bene underwhelming. SO we have a natural fear they are going to make another underwhelming pick as they have shown that pension the last 3 years. ------------------------------ ****Hopefully they get it right. But sorry to the OP and other Giant fans hopeful for offense being drafted in round 1-- imo it looks like Kwity Paye as asshat suggested too. And they are one trillion more in the know than I ever can. But this Kwity Paye has "conservative type of Giants pick" written all over it. We don't seem to get lucky when an extremely high player most of us love falls into our laps.

Based on every tea leaf I've come across, they're not looking OL at #11 unless Sewell somehow falls. They're not satisfied with the OL, it remains unfinished. It's just the prospects don't line up with #11, despite the fan love for Slater.

OL should be in the mix starting at #42.

I agree their two most recent premium picks have been mostly average, at best, and I fear Paye would extend the streak.

In comment 15211208 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 15210809 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15209902 JonC said: Quote: If you're hellbent on drafting the best offensive player, when the actual BPA could well be defense, you're drafting for need and shorting yourself on talent. If the top receivers are gone at #11, the BPA well could be several defenders. Do you still draft offense and stay narrow with your strategy? \ The problem is 1-- Many of us like Slater who seems to be in that range of a little before 11 or a little after. 2-- So much so many of lean slightly toward Slater being BPA vs the Edges. 3-- Many of us are concerned with statements like "The Giants seems satisfied with their OL" as asshat pointed out. As a result, they may very well bypass BPA for need by taking the Edge. 4-- The Giants 1st round picks have been very underwhelming the last 3 years considering the positions they've drafted in. It doesn't mean it has sucked . . . yet - and it could wind up being very good . . . but right now it's bene underwhelming. SO we have a natural fear they are going to make another underwhelming pick as they have shown that pension the last 3 years. ------------------------------ ****Hopefully they get it right. But sorry to the OP and other Giant fans hopeful for offense being drafted in round 1-- imo it looks like Kwity Paye as asshat suggested too. And they are one trillion more in the know than I ever can. But this Kwity Paye has "conservative type of Giants pick" written all over it. We don't seem to get lucky when an extremely high player most of us love falls into our laps. Based on every tea leaf I've come across, they're not looking OL at #11 unless Sewell somehow falls. They're not satisfied with the OL, it remains unfinished. It's just the prospects don't line up with #11, despite the fan love for Slater. OL should be in the mix starting at #42. I agree their two most recent premium picks have been mostly average, at best, and I fear Paye would extend the streak.

All of the mocks I have seen show A TON of good IOL prospects available for us at 42. As a mater of fact I haven't seen where there wasn't. That's why I am off OL at 11. To be honest, I like bigger IOLs and there are going to be big ones available at 42. Sit pretty and go BPA at 11. I think we let this one come to us.

really good value there on big, powerful OL, from big school programs.