his legacy is that the Giants can go undefeated next year and still be a sub .500 team under his watch. He's been a bigger disaster for this organization than Ray Handley.
Couldn't you have said (and perhaps you did) the same thing when we took Barkley and the Jets took Darnold right after? They were a year ahead of us then, but here we are?
If you keep cutting your QB to be a year ahead in the cycle....
Couldn't you have said (and perhaps you did) the same thing when we took Barkley and the Jets took Darnold right after? They were a year ahead of us then, but here we are?
There's no logic - just unbridled anger.
You have to remember that the clown also thought the Redskins cutting Haskins put them in a better position than us.
And what do they have now? A ragged journeyman who has never played a postseason game. Winning!!
that if your team/record/QB is bad enough that you constantly churn mainly the QB position by putting your top resources into it, isn't possible that you could get caught in an endless loop?
The last time I saw CiP rip someone a new asshole,
was around 15-20 years ago and that person was me. We’ve since become buddies and becoming a father mellowed him a great deal, imv. Until today. It’s safe to say that it takes a lot for CiP to really get po’d..He still has his fastball..Add a tabletop curve as well...:)
are like the old Soviet Union's Five Year Plans: When they don't work you just start over with new "commissars." I don't like reveling in the agony of Jets fans (well, actually I do) but this is the same organization that traded up to draft Mark Sanchez. This appears to be a good deal for Jets only in that they got something for Darnold. If Matt Rhule and the Panthers can do what Gase and the Jets couldn't -- help Darnold become a good starting NFL QB, it just compounds the failure for the Jets. Look out Zack Wilson, something green comes your way.
15-33. The last time it was this bad Hal Holbrook was telling Robert Redford to follow the money. Ray Handley was a dream compared to this. It's so bad now that a win in Seattle to get to 5-7 is the best win in years. Pathetic.
I don't understand the level of Stockholm Syndrome that has gripped some of the posters on this site.
15-33. The last time it was this bad Hal Holbrook was telling Robert Redford to follow the money. Ray Handley was a dream compared to this. It's so bad now that a win in Seattle to get to 5-7 is the best win in years. Pathetic.
I don't understand the level of Stockholm Syndrome that has gripped some of the posters on this site.
with zero ties to the 9-23 Teams that preceded his hiring, not to mention no training camp amidst Covid with a NEW staff..Finished a respectible 5-3 with a one dimensional/one legged QB and the team that NEVER QUIT..
RE: NO, 6-10 after an 0-5 and 1-7 start under a BRAND NEW HC
with zero ties to the 9-23 Teams that preceded his hiring, not to mention no training camp amidst Covid with a NEW staff..Finished a respectible 5-3 with a one dimensional/one legged QB and the team that NEVER QUIT..
does context ever matter to you? Only when it's convenient I would guess.
Ray Handley inherited a super bowl champion and a team that was loaded along the OL, loaded at QB, loaded at RB and possessed enough talent on defense to compete for a division title in 1993, THREE years after RH even took over, same defense except some added Broncos.
DG inherited a fucking disaster of epic proportions. 2017 was so bad, it still shocks me to this day. 2018 was so much better and they went 5-11!! That's HOW BAD 2017 truly was.
You're so anti DG and so hell bent on proving to BBI that you know more than anyone else, you can't be objective.
RE: NO, 6-10 after an 0-5 and 1-7 start under a BRAND NEW HC
with zero ties to the 9-23 Teams that preceded his hiring, not to mention no training camp amidst Covid with a NEW staff..Finished a respectible 5-3 with a one dimensional/one legged QB and the team that NEVER QUIT..
and if you'd just shut off whatever voice is in your head
and accept 2018 for what it was, a transitional year that saw vets traded off at the mid way point, and see 2019 for what it was, the start of a personnel rebuild but still stuck with the bad HC, and then saw 2020 for what it was, the start of everything, maybe you could see that 2021 could bear fruit. Even if it is 1 year too late.
Or, just conjure up 2018 again and again and again.
You would have fired George Young in 1980. You would have kicked Accorsi out in 1999 and again in 2003.
nor do I see the point in conjuring up Barkley as if picking him is an indictable offense. The player's talent is beyond reproach but some of you think picking him at 2 means the GM is lost. BArkley likely will be making a pro bowl again while Darnold will be a backup, at best, but people here STILL would take Darnold. Great.
I don't think the book is written on Barkley OR Darnold, yet....
nor do I see the point in conjuring up Barkley as if picking him is an indictable offense. The player's talent is beyond reproach but some of you think picking him at 2 means the GM is lost. BArkley likely will be making a pro bowl again while Darnold will be a backup, at best, but people here STILL would take Darnold. Great.
well put on both posts
RE: RE: I really fail to see what 2018 means anymore
nor do I see the point in conjuring up Barkley as if picking him is an indictable offense. The player's talent is beyond reproach but some of you think picking him at 2 means the GM is lost. BArkley likely will be making a pro bowl again while Darnold will be a backup, at best, but people here STILL would take Darnold. Great.
well put on both posts
Just a quick Barkley note: Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders and the Killer to name a few were ALL TAKEN without a star QB in tow..That’s what you do when a HOF talent is available to you..
Amongst disasters for the organization, you all probably right.
does context ever matter to you? Only when it's convenient I would guess.
Ray Handley inherited a super bowl champion and a team that was loaded along the OL, loaded at QB, loaded at RB and possessed enough talent on defense to compete for a division title in 1993, THREE years after RH even took over, same defense except some added Broncos.
DG inherited a fucking disaster of epic proportions. 2017 was so bad, it still shocks me to this day. 2018 was so much better and they went 5-11!! That's HOW BAD 2017 truly was.
You're so anti DG and so hell bent on proving to BBI that you know more than anyone else, you can't be objective.
Yeah, the Giants killed it in 2018. So much better than 2017. Night and day.
The Handley thing was the off season where George Young was basically finished and fucked this franchise for a while. He decided that Bill B would never be a good head coach and would not give him a chance here.
Then, so many of the decisions made by George from that point forward were horrible. If you want to compare track records... George Young from that day forward made more piss poor decisions than most GMs.
He had some bad drafts and even worse... the decisions on free agents and coaches.
that's just it. If a GM has such a conviction on a player that he's all but certain that player is a star in the making, he should most definitely take him barring only a few exceptions. You want to disagree with that line of thinking that's fine, but its a hell of a lot easier to do so sitting on your couch. And all these "insiders" or former GMs saying they would never take a RB at 2-3-4 can go fuck off for all I care. Fournette went 4th. Zeke went 4th. Gurley went pretty high. Those guys weren't picked by bad GMs. MArshall Faulk was a great pick. So was LDT. And if Barkley wasn't hurt last year he'd be the best offensive player on the 2020 NFC east champions.
Love the pick or hate it, picking him is not what dumb GMs do no matter how much you can scream otherwise. The guy's a HOF talent. Enough already.
The Handley thing was the off season where George Young was basically finished and fucked this franchise for a while. He decided that Bill B would never be a good head coach and would not give him a chance here.
Then, so many of the decisions made by George from that point forward were horrible. If you want to compare track records... George Young from that day forward made more piss poor decisions than most GMs.
He had some bad drafts and even worse... the decisions on free agents and coaches.
I thought BB had a affair with one of the secretary's which I could see Young and Mara not liking very much. Young made the mistake with Hampton and I think he struggled with adjusted to the FA market. Lots of the problems were missing on Dave Brown. Had he worked out perhaps things would have gone a bit differently and his later years viewed more favorably.
The Handley thing was the off season where George Young was basically finished and fucked this franchise for a while. He decided that Bill B would never be a good head coach and would not give him a chance here.
Then, so many of the decisions made by George from that point forward were horrible. If you want to compare track records... George Young from that day forward made more piss poor decisions than most GMs.
He had some bad drafts and even worse... the decisions on free agents and coaches.
Yes, that was a tough time. The Cowboys rise during the same period made it even worse.
at least all agree that we want the team to go undefeated.
As an added bonus, we get to see if the guy with the stick shoved up his ass will complain that DG still isn't at .500 yet.
And I'm looking forward to see how you guys rationalize another losing season.
More bullshit. Not one NYG fan here is giving Jones (or DG) a pass if he doesn't show a lot in 2021. But hey, you do you.
Again though, fans that pile on the GM after every loss are fucking dumb. That's sort akin to killing the architect of an airplane when it crashed into the sea due to pilot error, in my book.
Actually the losses really suck. You guys do all seem to look forward to them though. That, or fail to learn.
Either way the rationalizations are good for a laugh.
Fail to learn? yeah ok. I have conjured up numerous examples of a GM that was on the hot seat for X amount of time only to be all but canonized after that same team of his went on to win and win big. Same with QBs. Usually I just hear silence or some platitude that while true, isn't really relevant.
You're going to be proven wrong here because you discount the impact of the HC. That's cool. Everyone needs to learn from things.
You should though since you love to conjure up 2018 and 2019 at every turn.
I don't even care anymore about those years. MAybe they are excuses and maybe DG walked into Mara's office and demanded that ELi be given another year or so (nope) and maybe he insisted on hiring Shurmur despite some better options available (nope nope) --fine, we can agree that DG didn't have a good 2018 campaign, I won't excuse that even if we all know there were, but fine, roast him for 2018.
Can we just look to 21 and see how this thing looks with another year of Judge in the fold and more cohesiveness with the coaching? You act like teams ALWAYS dramatically improve in 2 years time and if not, cut bait. It's not always that simple. Look forward. We might be on to something here. If not, trust me, you're going to get your pound of flesh. I don't think we want that to happen. I know I don't.
is everything. Coach. QB. In that order. Without the HC you might as well be running in circles. Look at the Knicks--and in the NBA talent is king, but Thibs has the Knicks looking like a team again. They were the worst team in the NBA for 4 years running. Same players different results. Did Scott Perry go from idiot to hero because he signed Randle or was he bailed out because a great HC got a hold of Randle and this team and fixed him?
Coaching makes all the difference. Shurmur had an enormous impact on things here.
Djm - nice speech, but I simply asked who is the pilot making errors
15-33. The last time it was this bad Hal Holbrook was telling Robert Redford to follow the money. Ray Handley was a dream compared to this. It's so bad now that a win in Seattle to get to 5-7 is the best win in years. Pathetic.
I don't understand the level of Stockholm Syndrome that has gripped some of the posters on this site.
15-33 was terrible and DG should have been let go based on that performance.
We agree?
He wasn't let go.
You and I can't change that.
They said it was because of the way Judge & worked as a unit.
We can choose to believe that or not.
Their reasoning is irrelevant.
It fucking happened and it is over.
This is our new world.
I could choose to eviscerate everything he does and complain about his past failures incessantly.
I could do that.
I don't, because it is a miserable way to root for a team.
What are you getting out this?
I don't have Stockholm syndrome, if they fired him tomorrow I would throw a fucking party.
Until then, I am going to root for the players on the team and the people coaching them because it is better than expecting them to fail.
RE: Djm - nice speech, but I simply asked who is the pilot making errors
nor do I see the point in conjuring up Barkley as if picking him is an indictable offense. The player's talent is beyond reproach but some of you think picking him at 2 means the GM is lost. BArkley likely will be making a pro bowl again while Darnold will be a backup, at best, but people here STILL would take Darnold. Great.
well put on both posts
Just a quick Barkley note: Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders and the Killer to name a few were ALL TAKEN without a star QB in tow..That’s what you do when a HOF talent is available to you..
Another dive deeper into the pit of madness.
Or a Thanks NYG and NYJ shirt by Bills fans for passing on the best player of the draft Josh Allen
Couldn't you have said (and perhaps you did) the same thing when we took Barkley and the Jets took Darnold right after? They were a year ahead of us then, but here we are?
Couldn't you have said (and perhaps you did) the same thing when we took Barkley and the Jets took Darnold right after? They were a year ahead of us then, but here we are?
There's no logic - just unbridled anger.
You have to remember that the clown also thought the Redskins cutting Haskins put them in a better position than us.
And what do they have now? A ragged journeyman who has never played a postseason game. Winning!!
Which isn't unlike where we've been for the past nine years, but I'd say it's unrelated to the QB position mostly.
I don't understand the level of Stockholm Syndrome that has gripped some of the posters on this site.
I don't understand the level of Stockholm Syndrome that has gripped some of the posters on this site.
Okay, never mind. I guess you’re just an idiot.
Respectable
Ray Handley inherited a super bowl champion and a team that was loaded along the OL, loaded at QB, loaded at RB and possessed enough talent on defense to compete for a division title in 1993, THREE years after RH even took over, same defense except some added Broncos.
DG inherited a fucking disaster of epic proportions. 2017 was so bad, it still shocks me to this day. 2018 was so much better and they went 5-11!! That's HOW BAD 2017 truly was.
You're so anti DG and so hell bent on proving to BBI that you know more than anyone else, you can't be objective.
Or, just conjure up 2018 again and again and again.
You would have fired George Young in 1980. You would have kicked Accorsi out in 1999 and again in 2003.
well put on both posts
Quote:
nor do I see the point in conjuring up Barkley as if picking him is an indictable offense. The player's talent is beyond reproach but some of you think picking him at 2 means the GM is lost. BArkley likely will be making a pro bowl again while Darnold will be a backup, at best, but people here STILL would take Darnold. Great.
well put on both posts
Just a quick Barkley note: Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders and the Killer to name a few were ALL TAKEN without a star QB in tow..That’s what you do when a HOF talent is available to you..
That is one tough spot you just put Go Terps in...
Ray Handley inherited a super bowl champion and a team that was loaded along the OL, loaded at QB, loaded at RB and possessed enough talent on defense to compete for a division title in 1993, THREE years after RH even took over, same defense except some added Broncos.
DG inherited a fucking disaster of epic proportions. 2017 was so bad, it still shocks me to this day. 2018 was so much better and they went 5-11!! That's HOW BAD 2017 truly was.
You're so anti DG and so hell bent on proving to BBI that you know more than anyone else, you can't be objective.
Yeah, the Giants killed it in 2018. So much better than 2017. Night and day.
As an added bonus, we get to see if the guy with the stick shoved up his ass will complain that DG still isn't at .500 yet.
Agree, on all three. Wonder which ones make it thru...
The Handley thing was the off season where George Young was basically finished and fucked this franchise for a while. He decided that Bill B would never be a good head coach and would not give him a chance here.
Then, so many of the decisions made by George from that point forward were horrible. If you want to compare track records... George Young from that day forward made more piss poor decisions than most GMs.
He had some bad drafts and even worse... the decisions on free agents and coaches.
As an added bonus, we get to see if the guy with the stick shoved up his ass will complain that DG still isn't at .500 yet.
In the meanwhile, you and the stick up your ass will hold down the fort,..
Love the pick or hate it, picking him is not what dumb GMs do no matter how much you can scream otherwise. The guy's a HOF talent. Enough already.
As an added bonus, we get to see if the guy with the stick shoved up his ass will complain that DG still isn't at .500 yet.
And I'm looking forward to see how you guys rationalize another losing season.
Quote:
Handley was a bigger one than Gettleman.
The Handley thing was the off season where George Young was basically finished and fucked this franchise for a while. He decided that Bill B would never be a good head coach and would not give him a chance here.
Then, so many of the decisions made by George from that point forward were horrible. If you want to compare track records... George Young from that day forward made more piss poor decisions than most GMs.
He had some bad drafts and even worse... the decisions on free agents and coaches.
I thought BB had a affair with one of the secretary's which I could see Young and Mara not liking very much. Young made the mistake with Hampton and I think he struggled with adjusted to the FA market. Lots of the problems were missing on Dave Brown. Had he worked out perhaps things would have gone a bit differently and his later years viewed more favorably.
Quote:
at least all agree that we want the team to go undefeated.
As an added bonus, we get to see if the guy with the stick shoved up his ass will complain that DG still isn't at .500 yet.
And I'm looking forward to see how you guys rationalize another losing season.
Don't worry. I completely believe that. You do look forward to losses now, don't ya?
I’m talking about AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFT, these were all considered special backs that were taken over perceived needs at QB.
Quote:
Handley was a bigger one than Gettleman.
The Handley thing was the off season where George Young was basically finished and fucked this franchise for a while. He decided that Bill B would never be a good head coach and would not give him a chance here.
Then, so many of the decisions made by George from that point forward were horrible. If you want to compare track records... George Young from that day forward made more piss poor decisions than most GMs.
He had some bad drafts and even worse... the decisions on free agents and coaches.
Yes, that was a tough time. The Cowboys rise during the same period made it even worse.
Either way the rationalizations are good for a laugh.
Would think so. The Hall of Fame is not really of much concern right now,
Either way the rationalizations are good for a laugh.
You have an interesting way of showing laughter....
Quote:
at least all agree that we want the team to go undefeated.
As an added bonus, we get to see if the guy with the stick shoved up his ass will complain that DG still isn't at .500 yet.
And I'm looking forward to see how you guys rationalize another losing season.
More bullshit. Not one NYG fan here is giving Jones (or DG) a pass if he doesn't show a lot in 2021. But hey, you do you.
Again though, fans that pile on the GM after every loss are fucking dumb. That's sort akin to killing the architect of an airplane when it crashed into the sea due to pilot error, in my book.
Either way the rationalizations are good for a laugh.
Fail to learn? yeah ok. I have conjured up numerous examples of a GM that was on the hot seat for X amount of time only to be all but canonized after that same team of his went on to win and win big. Same with QBs. Usually I just hear silence or some platitude that while true, isn't really relevant.
You're going to be proven wrong here because you discount the impact of the HC. That's cool. Everyone needs to learn from things.
You should though since you love to conjure up 2018 and 2019 at every turn.
I don't even care anymore about those years. MAybe they are excuses and maybe DG walked into Mara's office and demanded that ELi be given another year or so (nope) and maybe he insisted on hiring Shurmur despite some better options available (nope nope) --fine, we can agree that DG didn't have a good 2018 campaign, I won't excuse that even if we all know there were, but fine, roast him for 2018.
Can we just look to 21 and see how this thing looks with another year of Judge in the fold and more cohesiveness with the coaching? You act like teams ALWAYS dramatically improve in 2 years time and if not, cut bait. It's not always that simple. Look forward. We might be on to something here. If not, trust me, you're going to get your pound of flesh. I don't think we want that to happen. I know I don't.
Coaching makes all the difference. Shurmur had an enormous impact on things here.
I don't understand the level of Stockholm Syndrome that has gripped some of the posters on this site.
We agree?
He wasn't let go.
You and I can't change that.
They said it was because of the way Judge & worked as a unit.
We can choose to believe that or not.
Their reasoning is irrelevant.
It fucking happened and it is over.
This is our new world.
I could choose to eviscerate everything he does and complain about his past failures incessantly.
I could do that.
I don't, because it is a miserable way to root for a team.
What are you getting out this?
I don't have Stockholm syndrome, if they fired him tomorrow I would throw a fucking party.
Until then, I am going to root for the players on the team and the people coaching them because it is better than expecting them to fail.
So Shurmur was the pilot making errors in your view and caused the issues?
Just a few posts above you said that 2018 was so much better than 2017. Didn’t Shurmur become the coach in 2018?
This is confusing where you are placing the blame on the airplane crashing....
Quote:
In comment 15211552 djm said:
Quote:
nor do I see the point in conjuring up Barkley as if picking him is an indictable offense. The player's talent is beyond reproach but some of you think picking him at 2 means the GM is lost. BArkley likely will be making a pro bowl again while Darnold will be a backup, at best, but people here STILL would take Darnold. Great.
well put on both posts
Just a quick Barkley note: Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders and the Killer to name a few were ALL TAKEN without a star QB in tow..That’s what you do when a HOF talent is available to you..
We should have drafted him on lay-away.