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Pretty telling that these Giants remain unsigned

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/6/2021 9:07 am
What do the other 31 teams think of the NYG backfield last year?

Wayne Gallman, Alfred Morris, and Dion Lewis are still unsigned weeks after free agency started.

Also, our starting right tackle last year, Cam Fleming, is still unsigned.

One final note, it was reported that the Giants wanted to keep Colt McCoy but he wanted more money than they were offering. I don't know if this is true or not. But Colt McCoy's 1-year contract ($1,075,000 base, $137,000 bonus) is slightly lower than Mike Glennon's contract ($1,075,000 base, $300,000 bonus) with the Giants.
not sure on Colt  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2021 9:10 am : link
he probably used the Seattle win as a bargaining chip which really only would hold water here. Makes sense that he'd try to get more money for it. Either way both players stink.
Gallman will find a home  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2021 9:11 am : link
I can see Tennessee being interested if his price drops enough. He won't do much for 3rd downs but he can spell Henry for a series.
Good points  
pjcas18 : 4/6/2021 9:13 am : link
but there are a glut of RB's available.

In addition to the three Giants FAs you mentioned

LeSean McCoy
Le'Veon Bell
James Conner
Frank Gore
Adrian Peterson
Todd Gurley
Jerrick McKinnon
TJ Yeldon
Duke Johnson

plus many more.

Some of these guys won't get jobs until/if there are injuries IMO.
Colt's agent was probably playing poker with the Giants  
rasbutant : 4/6/2021 9:15 am : link
and loss. Once they moved on, it was take whatever you can get. Because i doubt his phone was ringing off the hook.
How times have changed...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/6/2021 9:15 am : link
that we don't have the Duke Johnson troll begging us to sign him when he actually could be a serviceable 3rd down back!
It just goes to show how hard it is for the average fan  
Chris684 : 4/6/2021 9:16 am : link
to understand how a team really feels about a player.

I understood no one would mistake Gallman for Walter Payton any time soon but I thought he was one of the bright spots coming off of last year. After a few years of fumbling/inconsistencies under McAdoo and Shurmur, I thought he found his place on the roster behind Barkley.

But more to your point, no contract here or elsewhere is definitely an eye opener.
RE: How times have changed...  
Jon in NYC : 4/6/2021 9:19 am : link
In comment 15210930 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that we don't have the Duke Johnson troll begging us to sign him when he actually could be a serviceable 3rd down back!


Wow I had successfully blocked that from my memory until now. That guy was awful.
RE: How times have changed...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/6/2021 9:21 am : link
In comment 15210930 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that we don't have the Duke Johnson troll begging us to sign him when he actually could be a serviceable 3rd down back!


That guy was just weird.
RE: Good points  
Dankbeerman : 4/6/2021 9:23 am : link
In comment 15210925 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but there are a glut of RB's available.

In addition to the three Giants FAs you mentioned

LeSean McCoy
Le'Veon Bell
James Conner
Frank Gore
Adrian Peterson
Todd Gurley
Jerrick McKinnon
TJ Yeldon
Duke Johnson

plus many more.

Some of these guys won't get jobs until/if there are injuries IMO.


Peterson may still be the best of this group
RE: Colt's agent was probably playing poker with the Giants  
Blue21 : 4/6/2021 9:28 am : link
In comment 15210929 rasbutant said:
Quote:
and loss. Once they moved on, it was take whatever you can get. Because i doubt his phone was ringing off the hook.


Was thinking the same thing. May have overplayed his hand.
RE: Good points  
FStubbs : 4/6/2021 9:29 am : link
In comment 15210925 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but there are a glut of RB's available.

In addition to the three Giants FAs you mentioned

LeSean McCoy
Le'Veon Bell
James Conner
Frank Gore
Adrian Peterson
Todd Gurley
Jerrick McKinnon
TJ Yeldon
Duke Johnson

plus many more.

Some of these guys won't get jobs until/if there are injuries IMO.


I'm surprised Conner doesn't just return to Pittsburgh. At this rate Gallman might be back cheap.
May be telling,  
barens : 4/6/2021 9:29 am : link
but I really enjoyed watching Alfred Morris play last year. Easy to root for.
Well, the Giants Averaged over 100 Yards per game  
ZogZerg : 4/6/2021 9:30 am : link
With a 4.1 YPC with those crappy RBs and crappy O-line play.

So, something worked OK.
Duke Johnson  
giants62 : 4/6/2021 9:30 am : link
Maybe that guy WAS Duke Johnson.
RE: Well, the Giants Averaged over 100 Yards per game  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2021 9:33 am : link
In comment 15210967 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
With a 4.1 YPC with those crappy RBs and crappy O-line play.

So, something worked OK.


It is true but it really never moved the needle and I suspect a good amount of it had to do with our woeful pass offense. Gallman was a hard worker but he left a ton of yards on the field. I actually did enjoy watching Alfred Morris too but his tank is just about empty.
RE: RE: Good points  
FranknWeezer : 4/6/2021 9:37 am : link
In comment 15210965 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15210925 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


but there are a glut of RB's available.

In addition to the three Giants FAs you mentioned

LeSean McCoy
Le'Veon Bell
James Conner
Frank Gore
Adrian Peterson
Todd Gurley
Jerrick McKinnon
TJ Yeldon
Duke Johnson

plus many more.

Some of these guys won't get jobs until/if there are injuries IMO.



I'm surprised Conner doesn't just return to Pittsburgh. At this rate Gallman might be back cheap.


I'm not so sure the Steelers want Conner. He's become a China Doll.
I give Conner a ton of credit  
JonC : 4/6/2021 9:41 am : link
for all he's overcome to play in the NFL. But, he didn't look good at all last season as the hit accumulated. Punishment was definitely affecting him, and it looked like every hit hurt.
RE: Good points  
Jimmy Googs : 4/6/2021 9:50 am : link
In comment 15210925 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but there are a glut of RB's available.

In addition to the three Giants FAs you mentioned

LeSean McCoy
Le'Veon Bell
James Conner
Frank Gore
Adrian Peterson
Todd Gurley
Jerrick McKinnon
TJ Yeldon
Duke Johnson

plus many more.

Some of these guys won't get jobs until/if there are injuries IMO.


Yep, the Running Back Store always has a ready supply.

Our guys shopped early and grabbed Booker...
I still can’t quite figure out  
GiantSteps : 4/6/2021 9:55 am : link
WTF with Gallman.

I wish he was coming back.
RE: Good points  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/6/2021 10:00 am : link
In comment 15210925 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but there are a glut of RB's available.

In addition to the three Giants FAs you mentioned

LeSean McCoy
Le'Veon Bell
James Conner
Frank Gore
Adrian Peterson
Todd Gurley
Jerrick McKinnon
TJ Yeldon
Duke Johnson

plus many more.

Some of these guys won't get jobs until/if there are injuries IMO.
These guys probably think there is a better contract out there when a starter goes down, than a backup contract based on whether a starter goes down or a draft pick underperforms. Someone in a playoff position loses a starter, then they really need somebody. That might be the time when you get a good one-year contract.
RE: I still can’t quite figure out  
JonC : 4/6/2021 10:05 am : link
In comment 15211002 GiantSteps said:
Quote:
WTF with Gallman.

I wish he was coming back.


It's simple, he's not a great pass catcher or pass pro blocker, and he didn't always run hard. Coaches tired of it.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/6/2021 10:08 am : link
I liked Gallman going back to Clemson, but I guess the coaches didn't.
RE: I still can’t quite figure out  
Rjanyg : 4/6/2021 10:08 am : link
In comment 15211002 GiantSteps said:
Quote:
WTF with Gallman.

I wish he was coming back.


I agree. I think he lacks in the pass game as both a receiver and blocker, plus the back up RB should have some special teams contributions. I think Booker covered all those criteria.

That said, Gallman was a viable back up to Barkley. I suspect we may draft a RB this year.
It’s amazing how fast  
eric2425ny : 4/6/2021 10:15 am : link
careers end for RB’s nowadays. Who would have expected Gurley and Bell to both be essentially finished at this point? Two years ago they were still considered to be high end backs. Gurley obviously has the knee condition that the Rams downplayed and Bell should have stayed in Pittsburgh and taken the large contract they offered him. That was one of probably 2-3 offensive lines in the league where he could run with his patient running style.

Not an Adam Gase fan but I’m assuming that’s why he wasn’t thrilled with the Jets signing Bell right before he took the job.
Gurley had a known chronic degenerative knee and ACL repair  
JonC : 4/6/2021 10:19 am : link
those rarely end well for a tailback, especially one at his size and speed numbers. Bell wasn't quick or fast to begin with, even tho he was a smart, patient runner. The thing is these types of situations are common with NFL running backs. The backs who are able to buck the trend are becoming fewer.
RE: not sure on Colt  
Ivan15 : 4/6/2021 10:32 am : link
In comment 15210920 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he probably used the Seattle win as a bargaining chip which really only would hold water here. Makes sense that he'd try to get more money for it. Either way both players stink.


“Stink” is pretty strong criticism for 2 guys who were starting QBs at one time. We saw what McCoy could do, but if you wanted a fill-in starter, Glennon gives you a better chance.
RE: RE: not sure on Colt  
eric2425ny : 4/6/2021 10:35 am : link
In comment 15211068 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15210920 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


he probably used the Seattle win as a bargaining chip which really only would hold water here. Makes sense that he'd try to get more money for it. Either way both players stink.



“Stink” is pretty strong criticism for 2 guys who were starting QBs at one time. We saw what McCoy could do, but if you wanted a fill-in starter, Glennon gives you a better chance.


Yup, Glennon is not great but he has starting experience and a much stronger arm than McCoy which will be needed if Jones misses any time. We won’t be running a slew of short crossing routes with Golladay and Ross. It’s clear the Giants want to push the ball downfield this year.
Giants may have overpaid a bit on Booker, but he may be more useful  
Ivan15 : 4/6/2021 10:41 am : link
And versatile to the Giants than anyone left on the list. 4 yards per carry and good for 3rd downs. Plug in for injured Barkley or to give Barkley a break.
We ran short crossing routes because we couldn't pass protect  
Sneakers O'toole : 4/6/2021 10:42 am : link
We've been doing it since OBJ was on the team.
I liked what Morris did for the Giants last year. I don’t know if he  
Ivan15 : 4/6/2021 10:49 am : link
Has another year left in him, or if he would accept the vet minimum, but if the practice squad rules are like last year, it would be nice to have him available as the 4th RB, with a rookie RB as the 3rd RB.

50/50 that Barkley makes it all year without missing a couple of games.
Gallman wasn't bad  
djm : 4/6/2021 11:08 am : link
but he wasn't above average either. Left a lot of meat on the bone and really doesn't do anything well. He's an average player. Replacement level more or less.

The run blocking last year was better than the results showed in my view. The pass blocking needs improvement.
RE: I still can’t quite figure out  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 4/6/2021 11:10 am : link
In comment 15211002 GiantSteps said:
Quote:
WTF with Gallman.

I wish he was coming back.


+1
RE: How times have changed...  
Rafflee : 4/6/2021 11:14 am : link
In comment 15210930 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that we don't have the Duke Johnson troll begging us to sign him when he actually could be a serviceable 3rd down back!


Gallman missed a lot of PB Assignments. Unless someone has a situation to Hand Him the Ball, he needs to be able to contribute to the passing game as a target and as a blocker.

Waynes performance confirmed the talent I saw in him...but it also revealed some very big problems for a guy who has had 3 years of NFL Experience and Coaching. Unless someone sees hom in a Major Carry Roale, they are not fielding him to add QB Hits
An average player who isn't performing up to a level  
JonC : 4/6/2021 11:16 am : link
coaches expect, eg demonstrate basic assignment grasp, they're going to be on the bench and ultimately replaced.

Gallman and Hernandez are recent examples.
Gallman is not signed even though  
Marty in Albany : 4/6/2021 11:20 am : link
he was making some really good runs.

I have to believe that the Giants' seldom let good people go. Their problem is generally acquiring bad people, and hanging on to bad people for too long.

If a team doesn't re-sign a player, the classy thing to do is not to tell the media all the sordid reasons for not keeping the player.

Please don't bring up Bavaro. The Giants let Bavaro go and told him to retire to protect his bad back. Then Bavaro and his bad back gained more yards for his new team than all the Giants' TE's put together.
Glennon has a stronger arm  
Simms11 : 4/6/2021 11:24 am : link
and is probably a better QB then MCCoy, as well
RE: Glennon has a stronger arm  
FranknWeezer : 4/6/2021 11:35 am : link
In comment 15211148 Simms11 said:
Quote:
and is probably a better QB then MCCoy, as well


My concerns are all about the neck up with Glennon.
Alfred Morris was on the scrap heap  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/6/2021 11:36 am : link
I get why he wasn't signed.
RE: RE: not sure on Colt  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2021 11:36 am : link
In comment 15211068 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15210920 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


he probably used the Seattle win as a bargaining chip which really only would hold water here. Makes sense that he'd try to get more money for it. Either way both players stink.



“Stink” is pretty strong criticism for 2 guys who were starting QBs at one time. We saw what McCoy could do, but if you wanted a fill-in starter, Glennon gives you a better chance.


It’s within the context of an NFL QB. They can come in and maybe not lose you a game. If they were any better than that they’d either A, be starting or B. Would be higher paid backups.
RE: Well, the Giants Averaged over 100 Yards per game  
fredgbrown : 4/6/2021 11:39 am : link
In comment 15210967 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
With a 4.1 YPC with those crappy RBs and crappy O-line play.

So, something worked OK.


Actually the Giants averaged 4.4 per rush and that had a lot to do with Danny Dimes who was 2nd on the team with over 400 yds and a 6.5 yards per rush.
Say what you will  
MtDizzle : 4/6/2021 12:07 pm : link
but Gallman I thought earned a chance to come back after last year, also Alfred Morris did well when called upon. I wouldn’t mind seeing Sheard back for veteran depth as well.
I was a big Gallman proponent until after this year.  
Dinger : 4/6/2021 12:07 pm : link
I didn't understand why they didn't use him more(pre Barkley and to spell him when he needed a breather). He seemed to be able to get to the 2nd level and break the 1st tackle every now and again. But the more we used him this year the more I realized he wasn't able to pick up the rush and didn't seem to understand situations. If you are Barkley you can get away with that. Gallman was never a fumbler in my mind, but when he dropped it in the Dallas game I just couldn't forgive him. He recovered it, but I feel like it was his M.O.- not understanding the PRIMARY concern to protect the ball and secondarily to get yards. So for me, losing him is a good step in the right direction. There are a lot of 'second tier' backs who can pick up a few yards as well as catch a pass when necessary and be able to identify and pick up the rush. I don't believe the term 3rd down back is relevant any more as I think teams want a 3rd down back in EVERY down.
RE: RE: Glennon has a stronger arm  
Optimus-NY : 4/6/2021 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15211166 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 15211148 Simms11 said:


Quote:


and is probably a better QB then MCCoy, as well



My concerns are all about the neck up with Glennon.


He was great in Attack of the Clones!
RE: Gurley had a known chronic degenerative knee and ACL repair  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/6/2021 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15211032 JonC said:
Quote:
those rarely end well for a tailback, especially one at his size and speed numbers. Bell wasn't quick or fast to begin with, even tho he was a smart, patient runner. The thing is these types of situations are common with NFL running backs. The backs who are able to buck the trend are becoming fewer.

That can't be true. Ryan has been telling us for months that ACL injuries are basically stubbed toes for RBs.
Gallman  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/6/2021 12:28 pm : link
Is really not a good answer. We need more of a grind it out, north south power back to spell Barkley. Someone who will wear the other team down. Gallman never got stronger as the game went on or the season unfolded. That’s why Morris and Freeman were such revaluations. Those guys know how to punish and grind it out. We really need a back that runs that way.
RE: Gallman  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/6/2021 12:49 pm : link
In comment 15211247 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Is really not a good answer. We need more of a grind it out, north south power back to spell Barkley. Someone who will wear the other team down. Gallman never got stronger as the game went on or the season unfolded. That’s why Morris and Freeman were such revaluations. Those guys know how to punish and grind it out. We really need a back that runs that way.

I look at Rhamondre Stevenson in the draft and I want to see that sort of back, although his running style reminds me more of Dayne or that Texas RB that a handful of BBI posters were excited about a few years back. I still do like Stevenson as an option in the draft, but I'm starting to lean toward UDFA targets for RB3, given the assumption that Barkley and Booker are going to account for so much of the workload for the next year or two at least.

There are a couple of mid-major RB prospects that I think can be those smaller bowling ball types, but can also catch the ball (something that rules out BBI fave Jaret Patterson, IMO), and I'm hoping one of those guys is available as an UDFA, because it would be great to be able to reinforce other areas of the team and not use any draft resources at RB, but still get a bit of a boost to depth there.

Some of the guys I'd be looking at are:

- Trey Ragas, Louisiana
- Elijah Mitchell, Louisiana
- Israel Tucker, Louisiana Tech
- Josh Johnson, Louisiana-Monroe
- Jake Funk, Maryland (mostly so no one thinks I only listed backs from one state, but also because I think Funk has legit deep sleeper potential)
RE: RE: Gallman  
Angel Eyes : 4/6/2021 12:55 pm : link
In comment 15211266 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15211247 gidiefor said:


Quote:


Is really not a good answer. We need more of a grind it out, north south power back to spell Barkley. Someone who will wear the other team down. Gallman never got stronger as the game went on or the season unfolded. That’s why Morris and Freeman were such revaluations. Those guys know how to punish and grind it out. We really need a back that runs that way.


I look at Rhamondre Stevenson in the draft and I want to see that sort of back, although his running style reminds me more of Dayne or that Texas RB that a handful of BBI posters were excited about a few years back. I still do like Stevenson as an option in the draft, but I'm starting to lean toward UDFA targets for RB3, given the assumption that Barkley and Booker are going to account for so much of the workload for the next year or two at least.

There are a couple of mid-major RB prospects that I think can be those smaller bowling ball types, but can also catch the ball (something that rules out BBI fave Jaret Patterson, IMO), and I'm hoping one of those guys is available as an UDFA, because it would be great to be able to reinforce other areas of the team and not use any draft resources at RB, but still get a bit of a boost to depth there.

Some of the guys I'd be looking at are:

- Trey Ragas, Louisiana
- Elijah Mitchell, Louisiana
- Israel Tucker, Louisiana Tech
- Josh Johnson, Louisiana-Monroe
- Jake Funk, Maryland (mostly so no one thinks I only listed backs from one state, but also because I think Funk has legit deep sleeper potential)

I’ve thought about drafting Stevenson in the fourth round or so.
Man, what a fall from grace for Gurley  
Bear vs Shark : 4/6/2021 12:55 pm : link
Really sucks about his knees
I still would pick Michael Carter in the third  
Bill L : 4/6/2021 1:01 pm : link
.
The smart teams have figured out that RB's  
arniefez : 4/6/2021 1:23 pm : link
have a short shelf life and there are plenty of them in the draft every year in the mid rounds or even later that are winning players. WR is trending that way too.

No matter how good a RB performs on his first contract, signing him to 2nd contract is bad business. The punishment after 4/5 years is just too great to maintain a performance level worth the 2nd contract money.

RE: We ran short crossing routes because we couldn't pass protect  
Carl in CT : 4/6/2021 2:56 pm : link
In comment 15211087 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
We've been doing it since OBJ was on the team.
and the strong part of Jones game is he throws the deep ball very accurate. Got to give him time and outside weapons.
.  
Banks : 4/6/2021 2:59 pm : link
I never understood the Gallman praise by some. I thought he was the very definition of a JAG. I hope he lands somewhere, but I don't mind he's gone one bit
RE: RE: I still can’t quite figure out  
Tom in NY : 4/6/2021 3:11 pm : link
In comment 15211011 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15211002 GiantSteps said:


Quote:


WTF with Gallman.

I wish he was coming back.



It's simple, he's not a great pass catcher or pass pro blocker, and he didn't always run hard. Coaches tired of it.


Bobby Skinner has an interesting take on Gallman that could be true as well.
He believes Gallman needs 12-15 carries minimum to be effective and therefore is not a good RB2 to Barkley as he was never going to get more than 6-10 carries in a game.
So he's good enough to be a back-up, but he can't succeed at that role as he needs a volume of carries to be effective.
You can't be 1-dimensional in the NFL.  
mittenedman : 4/6/2021 4:53 pm : link
Remember, there were reports about the Giants having to switch from a zone-heavy run scheme to a gap/power scheme after Barkley went down because none of the in-house backs could run zone. (If you were wondering why they were kept at all, with no viable backup option entering the season, so am I.)

The saying with NFL backs is "how good are you when you don't have the ball". Gallman was OK when he was running with the ball but not very good when he wasn't. And I almost forgot about that fumble in the DAL game. He had to have been throwing the game.
RE: RE: RE: I still can’t quite figure out  
JonC : 4/6/2021 5:09 pm : link
In comment 15211508 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15211011 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 15211002 GiantSteps said:


Quote:


WTF with Gallman.

I wish he was coming back.



It's simple, he's not a great pass catcher or pass pro blocker, and he didn't always run hard. Coaches tired of it.



Bobby Skinner has an interesting take on Gallman that could be true as well.
He believes Gallman needs 12-15 carries minimum to be effective and therefore is not a good RB2 to Barkley as he was never going to get more than 6-10 carries in a game.
So he's good enough to be a back-up, but he can't succeed at that role as he needs a volume of carries to be effective.


The main thing I see with WG is inconsistency play to play. When he's playing well he flashes good instincts running. But, there's a big chunk of time where he's not running with authority, he misses holes and pass pro assignments. It's like he's checked out and not paying attention. This is the kind of stuff that turns off coaches too, I've seen it up close.
Gallman  
Lines of Scrimmage : 4/6/2021 8:26 pm : link
May be a money issue. Injuries happen in camp so some of the FA’s might wait it out. Teams may do more signings after the draft.
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