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Troy Aikman

Debaser : 4/6/2021 3:14 pm
I was reading (and actually purchased ) the NFL Legends book and in it - it not only listed Troy Aikman as one of the Legends - but even went as far to have like a feature of him --which was only reserved for a few players throughout league history.

I mean his stats I guess were great for the time - they hardly seem to be anything special for nowadays. I mean 11 TDs I guess was acceptable for Hal of famers now it's like I want to run Jones out of town for only 11 TDs. But I don't remember any special anything from Troy Aikman. I remember Deon Sanders making plays thoughh. THey show a picture of Eli and had the Giant's '07 SB win as top games of all time. Other Giants of note were obviously L.T. as game legend.
He won three out of four Superbowls.  
Britt in VA : 4/6/2021 3:15 pm : link
He was on a loaded team, but he was the QB. Sort of like Bradshaw.
And by three out of four...  
Britt in VA : 4/6/2021 3:16 pm : link
I mean 3 in four years.
I don't care for Troy...  
Brown_Hornet : 4/6/2021 3:17 pm : link
...but stats do not make legends...victories do.
His stats were not great for his time  
SLIM_ : 4/6/2021 3:21 pm : link
As Britt said, his team won Super Bowls and he was the QB. He was also the 1st pick in the draft.

My insult related to him was that he was the biggest myth in NFL history.

My compliment related to him was that when given all day to throw in perfect weather, he threw a really nice ball and didn't turn it over.

I will have to say that he wasn't a douche either.

He was a very efficient quarterback but nowhere near what I would call a legend.

As with Bart Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Eli  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2021 3:29 pm : link
and of course Brady and Montana, Aikman came up big in the biggest stage the NFL had to offer and he did it 3x..

That has always mattered most to me.
Aikman  
djm : 4/6/2021 3:38 pm : link
was the most important player on the best team in football. He was also the unquestioned leader. That term gets thrown around too often but not here. Aikman kept that team in line more than many think.

His talent was also off the charts good. He made throws most cannot make. There's a few reasons why teams couldn't stop dallas. Their OL was awesome and so was their QB. Smith was a good RB that was extremely durable.
Jim Plunkett  
FranknWeezer : 4/6/2021 3:46 pm : link
is getting the short end of the stick from the HOF.
DJM and BB56  
Lines of Scrimmage : 4/6/2021 3:51 pm : link
hit the big points about the big games and leadership.

QB and HC is often about the talent around you. You have to capitalize when you have it and he did.

He was exceptionally accurate and often made deep throws in a very small window on a line. This is one area so many QB's miss the mark and what takes the good to great imo.
RE: Aikman  
Peppers : 4/6/2021 3:52 pm : link
In comment 15211569 djm said:
Quote:
was the most important player on the best team in football. He was also the unquestioned leader. That term gets thrown around too often but not here. Aikman kept that team in line more than many think.

His talent was also off the charts good. He made throws most cannot make. There's a few reasons why teams couldn't stop dallas. Their OL was awesome and so was their QB. Smith was a good RB that was extremely durable.


One of the most underappreciated players I've ever been around.
a prime example of how the game has changed. used to be that  
Victor in CT : 4/6/2021 4:00 pm : link
the object was solely to win. Now its about who's team it is, how many touches do I get, yadda yadda.

All the QBs mentioned by BB56, including Aikman had great talent AND played in the fashion that gave their team the best chance to win.

Bradshaw is the best example. The first 2, they ran on offense, had 2 1000 yard backs in one year. The second 2 when the rules changed were passing offenses.
RE: Aikman  
DonQuixote : 4/6/2021 4:10 pm : link
In comment 15211569 djm said:
Quote:
was the most important player on the best team in football. He was also the unquestioned leader. That term gets thrown around too often but not here. Aikman kept that team in line more than many think.

His talent was also off the charts good. He made throws most cannot make. There's a few reasons why teams couldn't stop dallas. Their OL was awesome and so was their QB. Smith was a good RB that was extremely durable.


I agree. Aikman was one of the best to play the game.
RE: As with Bart Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw, Eli  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/6/2021 4:42 pm : link
In comment 15211555 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
and of course Brady and Montana, Aikman came up big in the biggest stage the NFL had to offer and he did it 3x..

That has always mattered most to me.


+1. A winner and a leader.
QBs that win the SB more than once  
Thegratefulhead : 4/6/2021 4:52 pm : link
Are legends.

end of story.
But Not Eli  
Debaser : 4/6/2021 4:55 pm : link
He just had a little picture and one of greatest games ever played next to him.
He was among the very best of the best  
trueblueinpw : 4/6/2021 5:01 pm : link
Easily and obviously belongs in HoF. He was great.

Those Cowboys teams that Jimmy Johnson built were the most complete NFL teams I ever saw. They had talent everywhere because Jimmy had a gift for spotting talent and for coaching talent. Jimmy Johnson isn’t always in the conversation of best ever football coaches but he clearly should be. There’s a strong case to say he’s the best football coach ever.
Aikman was a great talent...  
bw in dc : 4/6/2021 5:02 pm : link
but he wasn't a great QB.

Sure, he was on a all-time great team, but his output was rather laughable. He broke 20 TDs in a season once. Just look at his TD/INT ratio 165/141. That's was pedestrian for that era in the '90s.
Whatever his numbers...  
JohnG in Albany : 4/6/2021 5:08 pm : link
He never seemed to miss an important pass.

Dammit.
Trueblue  
Lines of Scrimmage : 4/6/2021 5:08 pm : link
I agree that Johnson was a great talent evaluator and overall gifted at having players reach their potential. The best ever? He went to Miami with middling results. Had he done it again perhaps. TC sent him into retirement with like a 50-7 thrashing in the playoffs.

Bw: Aikman played in a big play offense. Not fair to group him with the West Coast QB's and offenses which were the rage in the 90's once Walsh's tree started taking more root in the league imo.
This is silly. He was a GREAT QB  
GiantTuff1 : 4/6/2021 5:23 pm : link
Troy rarely made a mistake, and he always seemed to be able to make a play when called upon. That's what made it so enormously frustrating to play the Cowboys at that time because the margin of error was razor thin. If you literally made one mistake in the game you lost. And Troy is a big reason why.

Of course now if you look back now and hawk the stats it doesn't look impressive, but this is another case of the stats do not tell the whole story.

Aikman's intangibles, clutch ability, leadership, smarts, and arm didn't need to deliver all the time with the league all-time leading rusher, strong o-line and defense. But whenever those Dallas teams needed him to, Aikman came through way more often than not.

He was a thorn in the side for sure, but hard not to respect that he was a big part of those championships.
RE: Trueblue  
bw in dc : 4/6/2021 5:24 pm : link
In comment 15211702 Lines of
Bw: Aikman played in a big play offense. Not fair to group him with the West Coast QB's and offenses which were the rage in the 90's once Walsh's tree started taking more root in the league imo. [/quote]

Do you remember any signature plays by Aikman?

I remember one time he fell on the snap from Stepnoski, handed the ball to Emmitt, and Emmitt scored from the two. That was a great hand-off... ;)
RE: Aikman was a great talent...  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2021 5:36 pm : link
In comment 15211696 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but he wasn't a great QB.

Sure, he was on a all-time great team, but his output was rather laughable. He broke 20 TDs in a season once. Just look at his TD/INT ratio 165/141. That's was pedestrian for that era in the '90s.


There you go, losing sight of what this game is all about to you..FF stats over winning it all..
I'm not saying Aikman...  
bw in dc : 4/6/2021 5:48 pm : link
was lousy. He certainly wasn't. But that offense was predicated on two parts - the Berlin Wall blocking and Emmitt running behind it.

On top of that, they had a top five D for at least five years on a PPG basis.

It was 1935 football that Gettleman craves - run the ball, block, stop the run.
RE: I'm not saying Aikman...  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2021 5:58 pm : link
In comment 15211769 bw in dc said:
Quote:
was lousy. He certainly wasn't. But that offense was predicated on two parts - the Berlin Wall blocking and Emmitt running behind it.

On top of that, they had a top five D for at least five years on a PPG basis.

It was 1935 football that Gettleman craves - run the ball, block, stop the run.


Aikman did what he was called upon to do..He made the clutch throws when he had to, mostly in games of championship importance..We measure QBs differently. You take your Rodgers and Brees type QBs who were/are FAR SUPERIOR stat QBs than Aikman ever was and I’ll take Aikman all week long with the title on the line.
I'm all ears on this...  
bw in dc : 4/6/2021 6:07 pm : link
so name any signature passing moments by Aikman?

I can remember signature throws by Simms, Montana, Kelly, Favre, Young, Cunningham, Moon, etc.

But I can't remember any great plays by Aikman that stand out.

When the beat the Bills for their first SB, I guess you can mention some there. But the Bills turned the ball over 9 times and Dallas had incredible field position for nearly the entire game. Dallas won 52-17 and had two defensive scores. They would have had a third if Leon Lett wasn't such a clown...

Hell, that's the play I remember from that game - Beebe walking down Leon Lett. ;)
RE: I'm all ears on this...  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2021 6:10 pm : link
In comment 15211796 bw in dc said:
Quote:
so name any signature passing moments by Aikman?

I can remember signature throws by Simms, Montana, Kelly, Favre, Young, Cunningham, Moon, etc.

But I can't remember any great plays by Aikman that stand out.

When the beat the Bills for their first SB, I guess you can mention some there. But the Bills turned the ball over 9 times and Dallas had incredible field position for nearly the entire game. Dallas won 52-17 and had two defensive scores. They would have had a third if Leon Lett wasn't such a clown...

Hell, that's the play I remember from that game - Beebe walking down Leon Lett. ;)


Signature plays are your barometer? I don’t remember one signature play of Aikman’s. What I do remember is saying, “oh fuck” way too many times during his career, especially in the playoffs and SBs where he made more clutch throws than not, much to my chagrin.
Aikman never missed.  
BUgiantfan : 4/6/2021 6:16 pm : link
If they had a receiver running free in the secondary in a big spot, I can’t remember a time he missed. So many times, I’d see Irvin or Harper running down the sideline and I didn’t need to watch- they were getting that TD. If Aikman’s numbers aren’t remarkable, it’s because his team was REALLY balanced. The dude was automatic and I hated him for it.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/6/2021 6:26 pm : link
Aikman was a great NFL QB. A legend? That's a bit of a stretch.
Aikman is pretty honest when discussing his own career  
Ben in Tampa : 4/6/2021 6:28 pm : link
And even said in his “A Football Life” documentary that as good as the first half of his career, the back half was equally as bad.

He remind me of Eli in a way. The organization really let him down in his later years.
I'm with BW  
Debaser : 4/6/2021 6:32 pm : link
i remember living in Arizona at the time and remember the Stealers fans everywhere. i must have watched the game and i just have no recollection of any plays that stand out in my mind. I remember John Elway even not having the greatest game back then but making a play.

And by the by no one said Aaron Rodgers is a legend yet --even though he is -- or Drew Brees. The book says they are future Hall of famers. I think Rodgers and Mahomes are the best QBs in football right now better than the so called Goat Brady. Some Goat. Can you remember ever being able to say there was a better QB than Montana during the time he played?
In case it wasn't clear  
Debaser : 4/6/2021 6:38 pm : link
... I am talking about 90s super bowl moments above.
RE: Aikman is pretty honest when discussing his own career  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2021 6:43 pm : link
In comment 15211823 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
And even said in his “A Football Life” documentary that as good as the first half of his career, the back half was equally as bad.

He remind me of Eli in a way. The organization really let him down in his later years.


Iirc, he also incurred a bunch of concussions during the back end of his career. There were little to no protocols in place at that time
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/6/2021 6:49 pm : link
I believe Aikman suffered a concussion against Washington his final season. I don't know if he returned that season or not. In '99 or '00, Young got concussed vs. Arizona on MNF & never set foot on the field again.
RE: RE: I'm all ears on this...  
bw in dc : 4/6/2021 6:56 pm : link
In comment 15211806 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:

Signature plays are your barometer? I don’t remember one signature play of Aikman’s. What I do remember is saying, “oh fuck” way too many times during his career, especially in the playoffs and SBs where he made more clutch throws than not, much to my chagrin.


For Aikman, yes if someone is asserting he's a legend or an all-time great. At the category, something needs to stand out...

Staubach with the Hail Mary to beat the Vikings in the playoffs. Staubach to Butch Johnson in the SB (granted, it was a fake catch).

Bradshaw to Swann and Stallworth for huge plays in the SB.

Montana to Clark with "The Catch". Montana to Taylor to beat Cincy to win the SB.

Elway with "The Drive" in Cleveland. Elway with the big run in the SB to beat Green Bay.

Simms to Bobby Johnson in Minnesota. Simms throwing for 500+ in Cincinnati. Simms to Bavaro on so many big moments (SB, against the 9ers).

Eli to Plax for the GW. Eli to Tyree. Eli to Manningham.

Brady - pick one of a hundred.

Etc.

Every QB who was truly a legend made signature plays. Aikman really has none...

Overrated.
bw in dc  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/6/2021 7:06 pm : link
The signature Aikman play to me was that slant he threw to Harper in the '92 NFC title game that pretty much clinched the game for Dallas. No, it wasn't an epic throw by any measure, but when I think of one Aikman play, that's the play that comes to mind.

God, those Dallas SF championship games were hell for me. I hate both teams with a passion.
RE: This is silly. He was a GREAT QB  
DonQuixote : 4/6/2021 10:00 pm : link
In comment 15211725 GiantTuff1 said:
Quote:
Troy rarely made a mistake, and he always seemed to be able to make a play when called upon. That's what made it so enormously frustrating to play the Cowboys at that time because the margin of error was razor thin. If you literally made one mistake in the game you lost. And Troy is a big reason why.

Of course now if you look back now and hawk the stats it doesn't look impressive, but this is another case of the stats do not tell the whole story.

Aikman's intangibles, clutch ability, leadership, smarts, and arm didn't need to deliver all the time with the league all-time leading rusher, strong o-line and defense. But whenever those Dallas teams needed him to, Aikman came through way more often than not.

He was a thorn in the side for sure, but hard not to respect that he was a big part of those championships.


Nice post!
RE: RE: RE: I'm all ears on this...  
DonQuixote : 4/6/2021 10:12 pm : link
In comment 15211853 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15211806 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:



Signature plays are your barometer? I don’t remember one signature play of Aikman’s. What I do remember is saying, “oh fuck” way too many times during his career, especially in the playoffs and SBs where he made more clutch throws than not, much to my chagrin.



For Aikman, yes if someone is asserting he's a legend or an all-time great. At the category, something needs to stand out...

Staubach with the Hail Mary to beat the Vikings in the playoffs. Staubach to Butch Johnson in the SB (granted, it was a fake catch).

Bradshaw to Swann and Stallworth for huge plays in the SB.

Montana to Clark with "The Catch". Montana to Taylor to beat Cincy to win the SB.

Elway with "The Drive" in Cleveland. Elway with the big run in the SB to beat Green Bay.

Simms to Bobby Johnson in Minnesota. Simms throwing for 500+ in Cincinnati. Simms to Bavaro on so many big moments (SB, against the 9ers).

Eli to Plax for the GW. Eli to Tyree. Eli to Manningham.

Brady - pick one of a hundred.

Etc.

Every QB who was truly a legend made signature plays. Aikman really has none...

Overrated.


Jeez. I'm a Giants fan and I don't cherish at all the moments that Aikman hit Harper or Irvin in stride. Pat Summerall said he was the most accurate passer he'd ever seen. The team was a dynasty that won 3 SBs and Aikman was a large reason why.

If you want a signature play, check out the career highlights on youtube. It doesn't much interest me because I am not a Cowboys fan and many were against the Giants, but to say Troy Aikman was not a great QB is just silly.
RE: Trueblue  
trueblueinpw : 4/6/2021 10:22 pm : link
In comment 15211702 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I agree that Johnson was a great talent evaluator and overall gifted at having players reach their potential. The best ever? He went to Miami with middling results. Had he done it again perhaps. TC sent him into retirement with like a 50-7 thrashing in the playoffs.


Yeah, his NFL work outside of the Pokes wasn’t ever as good. But he was ridiculous in his accomplishments as a college coach. The championship teams that Ericsson won with were JJ recruits. And the Switzer Super Bowl was basically Jimmy’s third Lombardi. I know it doesn’t work that way, but Johnson was one of the greatest football coaches ever.
RE: Aikman was a great talent...  
Matt M. : 4/7/2021 1:11 am : link
In comment 15211696 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but he wasn't a great QB.

Sure, he was on a all-time great team, but his output was rather laughable. He broke 20 TDs in a season once. Just look at his TD/INT ratio 165/141. That's was pedestrian for that era in the '90s.
I knew he never put up huge numbers, even relative to the era he played in. But, when I looked at his stats recently, I was shocked at how pedestrian they were.
In his prime, Aikman could elevate his game when needed.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/7/2021 4:07 am : link
In the three Super Bowl runs, he threw 17 TDs and 4 INTs in nine postseason games. We may not remember those clutch throws to Kelvin Martin, Jay Novacek, Alvin Harper, and Michael Irvin, but Cowboy fans do. So do 49er and Packer fans. (They also remember the short Bernie Kosar toss that Harper took to the house after Aikman went down with a concussion.)

His regular season stats from those years are relatively dull because Dallas didn’t need him to rack up big numbers, and he didn’t get many cheap TDs because the Cowboys were lethal running the ball in the red zone. Aikman’ speak was relatively brief, but he was outstanding.

I hate the Cowboys and I think he's great, so he's got to be great.  
Marty in Albany : 4/7/2021 10:39 am : link
I even thought he was great when he was a rookie and lost all his games and got sacked all the time.

Same goes for Roger Staubach. Hated him because he killed us, but he was a great one.
RE: I hate the Cowboys and I think he's great, so he's got to be great.  
Lines of Scrimmage : 4/7/2021 10:44 am : link
In comment 15212472 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
I even thought he was great when he was a rookie and lost all his games and got sacked all the time.

Same goes for Roger Staubach. Hated him because he killed us, but he was a great one.


It would be interesting see how Troy versus Roger would go. I think it's Roger by a good bit.
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