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The term “Edge”:

Angel Eyes : 4/7/2021 12:38 pm
How did it arise and how does it encompass a wide range of pass-rushing players ranging from Lawrence Taylor to Michael Strahan? Now Lawrence Taylor and Michael Strahan were some of the best players of their time at their positions, but with very different sizes and different styles of play; Taylor was 6’3, 240 lbs and was best at the speed rush and Strahan was 6’5”, 270 lbs, and more of a power end. Nowadays, would Reggie White, who was 6’5 and 300lbs, count as an edge?
I think it arose because of the terms DE and LB  
Del Shofner : 4/7/2021 12:40 pm : link
not being perceived as sufficiently accurate for some players in this age of hybrid 4-3s and hybrid 3-4s.
I see “EDGE” as referring to  
GoDeep13 : 4/7/2021 12:45 pm : link
A player that can play both 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. For instance. I wouldn’t consider Gregory Rousseau an EDGE I’d consider him a DE as his athletic profile IMO limits him to 4-3 DE MAYBE 3-4 5T. Similar to Carlos Basham who I would consider more a strict 4-3 DE.

Guys like Phillips, Oweh, Ojulari, and (IMO) Paye, all have the strength too hold up as down linemen but also the change of direction and spacial awareness to play standing up.
RE: I think it arose because of the terms DE and LB  
Brown_Hornet : 4/7/2021 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15212672 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
not being perceived as sufficiently accurate for some players in this age of hybrid 4-3s and hybrid 3-4s.
+1
Del hit it on the head  
AcesUp : 4/7/2021 12:54 pm : link
We needed a more vague descriptor over the last 10 years since the lines between all the old positional descriptors were getting so blurred. Edge and iDL are way more nebulous but they more accurately describe where in the formation the player lines up regardless of whether its and even or odd front. Just about every defense is multiple these days, so 3-4 and 4-3 positional descriptors needed to go the way of the dodo bird to avoid confusion and/or having like 10 different categories for DL/LB positions.
I always viewed it...  
bw in dc : 4/7/2021 12:55 pm : link
as the stand-up pass rusher in a 3-4 or simply the DE in the 4-3.
When I think of the emergence of the term Edge...  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/7/2021 12:55 pm : link
...I think of Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis for the Colts.

Freeney at 6'1" played at 260 lbs. in the 2000s was considered undersized at DE (at least compared to Strahan, Julius Peppers, etc.)

Mathis was only 245 lbs. and really couldn't be called a DE in the traditional sense.
I always viewed it...  
bw in dc : 4/7/2021 12:55 pm : link
as the stand-up pass rusher in a 3-4 or simply the DE in the 4-3.
As above, when they developed the 3-4  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/7/2021 1:21 pm : link
it became clear that the guy on the edge of the 4-3 (DE) or 3-4 (LB) had a similar role. To set the edge and get after the passer.
I'm not sure this is a confusing topic  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/7/2021 1:24 pm : link
But then again, I didn't try to defend trading #11 for #50 straight up. The OP is leaning hard into troll-dom the last couple of days.
all of the above but..  
Producer : 4/7/2021 1:26 pm : link
in addition to being DE/OLB they also get sacks.
You can thank Mike Mayock for that term  
Rjanyg : 4/7/2021 1:59 pm : link
They tried to lump all the DE and OLB into a group. Which makes sense to me because if you think about the term Linebacker it means to back up the line, which in most cases an Outside Linebacker just really doesn't do that.

A base 3-4 defense is more like a base 5-2 defense. In fact the original 5-2 defense evolved into the 4-3 defense by taking what they called the Middle Guard and moved him to Middle Linebacker ala Sam Huff with NYG in and Bill George with Chicago in the 50's.

Now with the Hybrid defenses and nickel/dime packages it seems that teams are looking for versatile Edge players that can play in any scheme.

---  
Peppers : 4/7/2021 2:02 pm : link
The position/term "EDGE" comes from the phrase "setting the edge" which describes the outside/perimeter box defender's responsibility for containing the outside and forcing runs back into the "teeth" of the defense. The EDGE position is also responsible for pressuring from the perimeter (or edge of the line) - usually from the 6, 7, or 9 techniques.

The reason for the position/term "EDGE" is because of the multiple defenses that the majority of the league runs today. You can't say outside linebacker or defensive end universally because within the 4-3 (over or under) and the 3-4 the responsibilities differ for those positions.

RE: ---  
Rjanyg : 4/7/2021 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15212784 Peppers said:
Quote:
The position/term "EDGE" comes from the phrase "setting the edge" which describes the outside/perimeter box defender's responsibility for containing the outside and forcing runs back into the "teeth" of the defense. The EDGE position is also responsible for pressuring from the perimeter (or edge of the line) - usually from the 6, 7, or 9 techniques.

The reason for the position/term "EDGE" is because of the multiple defenses that the majority of the league runs today. You can't say outside linebacker or defensive end universally because within the 4-3 (over or under) and the 3-4 the responsibilities differ for those positions.


Hey Peppers, great post!

Have you heard anything specific in terms of NYG liking Parsons as an OLB/Edge or even Jayson Oweh?
I never liked the term  
Matt M. : 4/7/2021 3:25 pm : link
and I don't think it applies to LT. He was a true OLB who did EVERYTHING.
RE: RE: ---  
Peppers : 4/7/2021 3:53 pm : link
In comment 15212800 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 15212784 Peppers said:


Quote:


The position/term "EDGE" comes from the phrase "setting the edge" which describes the outside/perimeter box defender's responsibility for containing the outside and forcing runs back into the "teeth" of the defense. The EDGE position is also responsible for pressuring from the perimeter (or edge of the line) - usually from the 6, 7, or 9 techniques.

The reason for the position/term "EDGE" is because of the multiple defenses that the majority of the league runs today. You can't say outside linebacker or defensive end universally because within the 4-3 (over or under) and the 3-4 the responsibilities differ for those positions.




Hey Peppers, great post!

Have you heard anything specific in terms of NYG liking Parsons as an OLB/Edge or even Jayson Oweh?


Rjanyg,

I've heard Parsons and Shaka Toney have had conversations with members of the Giants but I haven't heard anything specific in terms of how they envision Parsons in their system. However, try to look at Parsons a lot like Donta Hightower. If Parsons was in the Giants system he would be used similar to how Hightower has been used with New England.. On rushing downs, he would be inside or off the ball and then on passing downs he would be attacking the A gaps or moved to the EDGE. They call that the "Move LB". His position is really just dependant on what defense is being called. Character concerns aside, this is a prospect who many feel would've been a top 10 pick had he played last year. But to be clear the character concerns have not been overlooked.

Regarding Oweh.. His proday created quite the buzz.. Mostly from what I've heard, he's viewed as a 4-3 defensive end, a lot like Danielle Hunter from Minnesota.

Shaka Toney is a potential mid-round guy. While he doesn't fit the typical length profile NYG looks for in their EDGE players, there is at least a little interest there.
I hate the term edge  
BH28 : 4/7/2021 4:27 pm : link
4-3 DE and a 3-4 OLB are not the same type of player even if they may fundamentally have some of the same responsibilities.

Do 3-4 DE get lumped in with edge? They certainly shouldn't.

Each one should be its own category becasue you are talking about three different types of players. A very small percentage of 4-3 DEs would be capable of being a 3-4 OLB and vice versa. Same with 3-4 OLB and 4-3 OLB. Guys who can play multiple fronts are attractive, but they are rare IMO.

Remember Jerry Reese's propensity to take a guy like Clint Sintim and turn him from 3-4 OLB and use him in 4-3? We also ruined Kiwanuka's career with similar BS
RE: RE: RE: ---  
Rjanyg : 4/7/2021 4:38 pm : link
In comment 15212927 Peppers said:
Quote:
In comment 15212800 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


In comment 15212784 Peppers said:


Quote:


The position/term "EDGE" comes from the phrase "setting the edge" which describes the outside/perimeter box defender's responsibility for containing the outside and forcing runs back into the "teeth" of the defense. The EDGE position is also responsible for pressuring from the perimeter (or edge of the line) - usually from the 6, 7, or 9 techniques.

The reason for the position/term "EDGE" is because of the multiple defenses that the majority of the league runs today. You can't say outside linebacker or defensive end universally because within the 4-3 (over or under) and the 3-4 the responsibilities differ for those positions.




Hey Peppers, great post!

Have you heard anything specific in terms of NYG liking Parsons as an OLB/Edge or even Jayson Oweh?



Rjanyg,

I've heard Parsons and Shaka Toney have had conversations with members of the Giants but I haven't heard anything specific in terms of how they envision Parsons in their system. However, try to look at Parsons a lot like Donta Hightower. If Parsons was in the Giants system he would be used similar to how Hightower has been used with New England.. On rushing downs, he would be inside or off the ball and then on passing downs he would be attacking the A gaps or moved to the EDGE. They call that the "Move LB". His position is really just dependant on what defense is being called. Character concerns aside, this is a prospect who many feel would've been a top 10 pick had he played last year. But to be clear the character concerns have not been overlooked.

Regarding Oweh.. His proday created quite the buzz.. Mostly from what I've heard, he's viewed as a 4-3 defensive end, a lot like Danielle Hunter from Minnesota.

Shaka Toney is a potential mid-round guy. While he doesn't fit the typical length profile NYG looks for in their EDGE players, there is at least a little interest there.


Great info Peppers, thanks!

I understand the potential character issues with Parsons being a concern but some say he is off the Giants board which I find hard to believe. He is way too talented IMO. I also agree that the Hightower mold is viable as he seems to be an excellent inside rusher and can line up on the edge as well. Van Noy had been used this way as well.

We need to find some speed and playmaking ability for our front 7.
RE: RE: RE: ---  
Rjanyg : 4/7/2021 4:39 pm : link
In comment 15212927 Peppers said:
Quote:
In comment 15212800 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


In comment 15212784 Peppers said:


Quote:


The position/term "EDGE" comes from the phrase "setting the edge" which describes the outside/perimeter box defender's responsibility for containing the outside and forcing runs back into the "teeth" of the defense. The EDGE position is also responsible for pressuring from the perimeter (or edge of the line) - usually from the 6, 7, or 9 techniques.

The reason for the position/term "EDGE" is because of the multiple defenses that the majority of the league runs today. You can't say outside linebacker or defensive end universally because within the 4-3 (over or under) and the 3-4 the responsibilities differ for those positions.




Hey Peppers, great post!

Have you heard anything specific in terms of NYG liking Parsons as an OLB/Edge or even Jayson Oweh?



Rjanyg,

I've heard Parsons and Shaka Toney have had conversations with members of the Giants but I haven't heard anything specific in terms of how they envision Parsons in their system. However, try to look at Parsons a lot like Donta Hightower. If Parsons was in the Giants system he would be used similar to how Hightower has been used with New England.. On rushing downs, he would be inside or off the ball and then on passing downs he would be attacking the A gaps or moved to the EDGE. They call that the "Move LB". His position is really just dependant on what defense is being called. Character concerns aside, this is a prospect who many feel would've been a top 10 pick had he played last year. But to be clear the character concerns have not been overlooked.

Regarding Oweh.. His proday created quite the buzz.. Mostly from what I've heard, he's viewed as a 4-3 defensive end, a lot like Danielle Hunter from Minnesota.

Shaka Toney is a potential mid-round guy. While he doesn't fit the typical length profile NYG looks for in their EDGE players, there is at least a little interest there.


Great info Peppers, thanks!

I understand the potential character issues with Parsons being a concern but some say he is off the Giants board which I find hard to believe. He is way too talented IMO. I also agree that the Hightower mold is viable as he seems to be an excellent inside rusher and can line up on the edge as well. Van Noy had been used this way as well.

We need to find some speed and playmaking ability for our front 7.
RE: I hate the term edge  
Rjanyg : 4/7/2021 4:45 pm : link
In comment 15212975 BH28 said:
[quote] 4-3 DE and a 3-4 OLB are not the same type of player even if they may fundamentally have some of the same responsibilities.

Do 3-4 DE get lumped in with edge? They certainly shouldn't.

Each one should be its own category becasue you are talking about three different types of players. A very small percentage of 4-3 DEs would be capable of being a 3-4 OLB and vice versa. Same with 3-4 OLB and 4-3 OLB. Guys who can play multiple fronts are attractive, but they are rare IMO.

Remember Jerry Reese's propensity to take a guy like Clint Sintim and turn him from 3-4 OLB and use him in 4-3? We also ruined Kiwanuka's career with similar BS [/quote

Teams have 5 DB's on the field more often in todays NFL so it will effect the front you run. The Giants have this hybrid defense now with multiple fronts so there are times an OLB will be in a 3 point stance and there were times last year where Leo Williams was in a 2 point stance. Either way they were play on the edge of the line. DE or OLB at this point doesn't matter.

I agree that it is a little vague but the days of having 4 LB's on the field all the time in a base 3-4 is gone. Having 4 LB and 2 DL is more likely. I grew up watching the great 80's teams and I miss them greatly. LT, Carson, Johnson, Reasons, Banks were a great group. Times have changed. Edge is a term that is here to stay.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ---  
Peppers : 4/7/2021 6:10 pm : link
In comment 15212996 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 15212927 Peppers said:


Quote:


In comment 15212800 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


In comment 15212784 Peppers said:


Quote:


The position/term "EDGE" comes from the phrase "setting the edge" which describes the outside/perimeter box defender's responsibility for containing the outside and forcing runs back into the "teeth" of the defense. The EDGE position is also responsible for pressuring from the perimeter (or edge of the line) - usually from the 6, 7, or 9 techniques.

The reason for the position/term "EDGE" is because of the multiple defenses that the majority of the league runs today. You can't say outside linebacker or defensive end universally because within the 4-3 (over or under) and the 3-4 the responsibilities differ for those positions.




Hey Peppers, great post!

Have you heard anything specific in terms of NYG liking Parsons as an OLB/Edge or even Jayson Oweh?



Rjanyg,

I've heard Parsons and Shaka Toney have had conversations with members of the Giants but I haven't heard anything specific in terms of how they envision Parsons in their system. However, try to look at Parsons a lot like Donta Hightower. If Parsons was in the Giants system he would be used similar to how Hightower has been used with New England.. On rushing downs, he would be inside or off the ball and then on passing downs he would be attacking the A gaps or moved to the EDGE. They call that the "Move LB". His position is really just dependant on what defense is being called. Character concerns aside, this is a prospect who many feel would've been a top 10 pick had he played last year. But to be clear the character concerns have not been overlooked.

Regarding Oweh.. His proday created quite the buzz.. Mostly from what I've heard, he's viewed as a 4-3 defensive end, a lot like Danielle Hunter from Minnesota.

Shaka Toney is a potential mid-round guy. While he doesn't fit the typical length profile NYG looks for in their EDGE players, there is at least a little interest there.



Great info Peppers, thanks!

I understand the potential character issues with Parsons being a concern but some say he is off the Giants board which I find hard to believe. He is way too talented IMO. I also agree that the Hightower mold is viable as he seems to be an excellent inside rusher and can line up on the edge as well. Van Noy had been used this way as well.

We need to find some speed and playmaking ability for our front 7.


Well, I don't know if he's off the board and, to be honest, I don't know where anyone would have received that information prior to this week.. Matter of fact the boards are probably being put together as we speak.
RE: RE: I hate the term edge  
BH28 : 4/7/2021 7:10 pm : link
In comment 15213005 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 15212975 BH28 said:
[quote] 4-3 DE and a 3-4 OLB are not the same type of player even if they may fundamentally have some of the same responsibilities.

Do 3-4 DE get lumped in with edge? They certainly shouldn't.

Each one should be its own category becasue you are talking about three different types of players. A very small percentage of 4-3 DEs would be capable of being a 3-4 OLB and vice versa. Same with 3-4 OLB and 4-3 OLB. Guys who can play multiple fronts are attractive, but they are rare IMO.

Remember Jerry Reese's propensity to take a guy like Clint Sintim and turn him from 3-4 OLB and use him in 4-3? We also ruined Kiwanuka's career with similar BS [/quote

Teams have 5 DB's on the field more often in todays NFL so it will effect the front you run. The Giants have this hybrid defense now with multiple fronts so there are times an OLB will be in a 3 point stance and there were times last year where Leo Williams was in a 2 point stance. Either way they were play on the edge of the line. DE or OLB at this point doesn't matter.

I agree that it is a little vague but the days of having 4 LB's on the field all the time in a base 3-4 is gone. Having 4 LB and 2 DL is more likely. I grew up watching the great 80's teams and I miss them greatly. LT, Carson, Johnson, Reasons, Banks were a great group. Times have changed. Edge is a term that is here to stay.


My point is that in nickel where you have 4 down lineman the DE or Edge is a different player than in a base 3-4 where the OLB is edge.

You aren't going to ask a guy like Strahan to cover in space, he's obviously much more effective in a 4-3 edge role than 3-4 edge role.

That's all i was saying. Calling everybody an edge doesn't actually simplify the position, there is still a lot of nuance in it. That's my aggravation with the term, you still need to identify what base defense their strength was. Calling them 3-4 OLB, 4-3 DE, 3-4 DE gives you a good idea on the body type athleticism of the player, edge does not, you need to dig deeper.

And if you can find the guys who can pay multiple types of edge position, that's what you want. They are rare, IMO.
It was created  
Pete in MD : 4/8/2021 9:35 am : link
by a football fan who also loves the band U2.
RE: I never liked the term  
FStubbs : 4/8/2021 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15212886 Matt M. said:
Quote:
and I don't think it applies to LT. He was a true OLB who did EVERYTHING.


Back in the 80s they did have the term "Designated pass rusher" for guys like Greg Townsend that I guess would be called EDGEs today.
RE: RE: I never liked the term  
Angel Eyes : 4/8/2021 3:12 pm : link
In comment 15213877 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15212886 Matt M. said:


Quote:


and I don't think it applies to LT. He was a true OLB who did EVERYTHING.



Back in the 80s they did have the term "Designated pass rusher" for guys like Greg Townsend that I guess would be called EDGEs today.

Seems to be the case; I read about the 80s where they’d have a defensive lineman who would come off the bench, the 3-4 DEs would shift inside and play tackle, stuff like that. The Giants were one of those teams since that’s what George Martin would do.
Top Designated Pass Rushers of All Time. - ( New Window )
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