| According to @MattLombardoNFL, there's a feeling inside the NFL that Giants GM Dave Gettleman is enamored with Alabama wide receiver DeVonta Smith. #TogetherBlue #NFLDraft |
I take everything Lombardo says with a grain of salt. Think he's by far the worst Giants best writer, but I hope this is true.
I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL. Golladay & Smith on the outside with Shep in the slot. Slayton & John Ross as WR4 and WR5 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
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with ATL to get him. I don’t think this team has as many needs as some people think.
Just off the top of my head I'd mention:
Interior Oline (2 players needed), Edge Rusher, TE, CB, Depth at Dline (look at contracts expiring after upcoming season), and RB....as well as WR.
The Giants only have 6 picks, they do not have the ability to trade up and address their needs properly.
When fans (not just Giants fans) look at a roster, and this has included myself at times, there’s this desire to see an entrenched starter and a solid young backup when evaluating every position on a team. With the roster size of an NFL team and salary cap limitations that is pretty much impossible to do. Think about the fact that most teams walk away with 7 draft picks every year, which means you are automatically churning about 13% of your roster on an annual basis. And that’s not including FA moves.
When I look at the needs you have listed I would agree if you are looking for what I mentioned above. However, we will likely draft one Guard to compete with the other 4 we have today (Hernandez, Lemieux, Fulton, Murphy), we may draft one edge (already have 7 on the roster including the new pickups Anderson and Odenigbo), may not draft a TE (have Engram, Rudolph, Toilolo, and Smith), and corner is pretty loaded at the moment.
I’m not saying we have zero needs, but every team in the league has needs and will still have needs post FA and draft. If the Giants see something amazing in a player and the cost isn’t insane you trade up if needed.
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I've been saying it
Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link
This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window )
Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier.
Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well.
Yes because it would be outlandish for posters on BBI to share their opinions on players. And oh my word...be wrong! Are you keeping score of all the rights and wrongs?
What did you happen to post about those players...did you even have a thought or was it to sit around and wait and see...
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I've been saying it
Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link
This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window )
Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier.
Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well.
Where? I grew to be very anti-Haskins.
I absolutely remember the possibility of Jones being our pick at 6 being discussed a lot.
Mels last mock had Jones to NYG 6 as well. His rise to the mid 1st round seemed to happen the last weeks leading onto the draft. The fact that Allen was there and all of the know-it-alls assume they could have picked both. Was it not reported that they tried to move into #8 to get Allen, but he was taken the next pick. Better off assured of your QB pick than get cute.
I'm also only thinking about this next QB in terms of a 4 year window. Unless he's Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes he won't be worth paying a second contract.
This is why I don’t understand all of the endless debate on Jones. The Giants liked him in 2019 and took him at #6. He’s entering year 3 of his rookie contract. As Terps mentions, we should all look at QB’s in 4 year windows, this is the make of break year. He either sinks or swims.
When the Giants were sitting at 1-7, I was all about moving off Jones if it made sense (top 5 draft pick), but it doesn’t now. Picking at 11 will not put the Giants in a position to draft a clear upgrade at QB.
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In comment 15216245 Go Terps said:
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I've been saying it
Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link
This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window )
Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier.
Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well.
Yes because it would be outlandish for posters on BBI to share their opinions on players. And oh my word...be wrong! Are you keeping score of all the rights and wrongs?
What did you happen to post about those players...did you even have a thought or was it to sit around and wait and see...
First, chill. Smile a little. Playful ribbing, is all.
Second, regarding my own posts on the topic, I actually didn’t know about this board until the middle of last season and registered a year and a few months in January 2020. But to answer your question I was hopeful that Jones would be the pick, but at #17. I watched all the typical pre-draft footage and even some other ones (like Cutcliffe’s presentation at Duke on Jones) and wanted him. I wanted no part of Haskins for all the reasons why he’s now on Pittsburgh. But when Josh Allen was sitting there and we took Jones instead, that was a remote thrower for me. Was happy with Dex at #17, but at the time thought Jones at #6 was the wrong move by DG. Then we got word about how DJ wasn’t going to be there and it made the pick more tolerable but tough to swallow. But in terms of talent, fundamentals and intangibles like maturity and work ethic, I loved what DJ had to offer. The big concern at the time was arm strength and getting the ball downfield and I thought that was overblown. Anyway, those are my honest thoughts from back then.
He was a machine. He was outside, in the slot, returning punts, he put up 200+ yards and 3 TD’s in one half. I liked him before that game and afterwards was like shit, there goes any chance of us getting him at 11.
It’s a passing league by design. The NFL has made it almost impossible to play defense for two reasons: 1.) the concussion issue and 2.) how much money fantasy football makes them and promoting a passing league equals more points, more yards, more TD’s, more people who wouldn’t be regular fans in the 80’s and 90’s becoming regular viewers because they have something at stake in their fantasy football league.
Smith is a beast but I just don’t think he’s the right pick given the roster construction and talent depth at the WR position in the upcoming draft. I want 5+ quality players in the draft, not 1-2. The best way to get there is to grab a WR late bc the talent will be there.
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In comment 15216265 HMunster said:
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In comment 15216245 Go Terps said:
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I've been saying it
Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link
This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window )
Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier.
Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well.
Yes because it would be outlandish for posters on BBI to share their opinions on players. And oh my word...be wrong! Are you keeping score of all the rights and wrongs?
What did you happen to post about those players...did you even have a thought or was it to sit around and wait and see...
First, chill. Smile a little. Playful ribbing, is all.
Second, regarding my own posts on the topic, I actually didn’t know about this board until the middle of last season and registered a year and a few months in January 2020. But to answer your question I was hopeful that Jones would be the pick, but at #17. I watched all the typical pre-draft footage and even some other ones (like Cutcliffe’s presentation at Duke on Jones) and wanted him. I wanted no part of Haskins for all the reasons why he’s now on Pittsburgh. But when Josh Allen was sitting there and we took Jones instead, that was a remote thrower for me. Was happy with Dex at #17, but at the time thought Jones at #6 was the wrong move by DG. Then we got word about how DJ wasn’t going to be there and it made the pick more tolerable but tough to swallow. But in terms of talent, fundamentals and intangibles like maturity and work ethic, I loved what DJ had to offer. The big concern at the time was arm strength and getting the ball downfield and I thought that was overblown. Anyway, those are my honest thoughts from back then.
DJ would have been there at 17...
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In comment 15216163 eric2425ny said:
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It’s because it appears to be a group effort now, with Judge having a say, and potentially others. It’s not DG out there wheeling and dealing with his dick in his hand.
That’s the best description of 2018 and 2019 I’ve read on this site, hands down.
Ha ha, while the imagery may be disturbing it is also probably true.
Visions of Tom Cruise’s character from Tropic Thunder come to mind when I picture DG in the war room on draft day in 2018 and 2019. Maybe a little puffier.
Davonte, Do It!
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I get where you are coming from but a few of these top receivers look pretty special. I mean Smith won the Heisman, big deal right, many players have won the Heisman and sucked in the NFL. What floored me is what he did in the National Championship game against a defense that will have multiple NFL players on it.
He was a machine. He was outside, in the slot, returning punts, he put up 200+ yards and 3 TD’s in one half. I liked him before that game and afterwards was like shit, there goes any chance of us getting him at 11.
It’s a passing league by design. The NFL has made it almost impossible to play defense for two reasons: 1.) the concussion issue and 2.) how much money fantasy football makes them and promoting a passing league equals more points, more yards, more TD’s, more people who wouldn’t be regular fans in the 80’s and 90’s becoming regular viewers because they have something at stake in their fantasy football league.
Smith is a beast but I just don’t think he’s the right pick given the roster construction and talent depth at the WR position in the upcoming draft. I want 5+ quality players in the draft, not 1-2. The best way to get there is to grab a WR late bc the talent will be there.
We can take 2. Regardless of how this season plays out Shepard is likely gone after 2021 as we’d save $6.5m in 2022 and $9.5m in 2023. If this WR class is as deep as everyone says it is we can take one at 11 and then use a mid rounder as well, hopefully to contribute this year on specials, and get PT as the 5th WR.
Just not a fan of ignoring top end players just because the class is deep - that just means teams will be taking WRs over another position, especially in a league that’s pass happy with big contracts being dished out at the position.
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Pick anyway.
This. DG can be enamored all he wants, but Judge will need to be also. I am sure DG likes half the top 10 picks.
Hard to believe it took until the bottom of the 1st page for someone to chime in on Judge's input.
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In comment 15216217 eric2425ny said:
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I get where you are coming from but a few of these top receivers look pretty special. I mean Smith won the Heisman, big deal right, many players have won the Heisman and sucked in the NFL. What floored me is what he did in the National Championship game against a defense that will have multiple NFL players on it.
He was a machine. He was outside, in the slot, returning punts, he put up 200+ yards and 3 TD’s in one half. I liked him before that game and afterwards was like shit, there goes any chance of us getting him at 11.
It’s a passing league by design. The NFL has made it almost impossible to play defense for two reasons: 1.) the concussion issue and 2.) how much money fantasy football makes them and promoting a passing league equals more points, more yards, more TD’s, more people who wouldn’t be regular fans in the 80’s and 90’s becoming regular viewers because they have something at stake in their fantasy football league.
Smith is a beast but I just don’t think he’s the right pick given the roster construction and talent depth at the WR position in the upcoming draft. I want 5+ quality players in the draft, not 1-2. The best way to get there is to grab a WR late bc the talent will be there.
We can take 2. Regardless of how this season plays out Shepard is likely gone after 2021 as we’d save $6.5m in 2022 and $9.5m in 2023. If this WR class is as deep as everyone says it is we can take one at 11 and then use a mid rounder as well, hopefully to contribute this year on specials, and get PT as the 5th WR.
Just not a fan of ignoring top end players just because the class is deep - that just means teams will be taking WRs over another position, especially in a league that’s pass happy with big contracts being dished out at the position.
That mindset will leave the Giants woefully short at core, foundational pieces of the roster. They need at least one, really two edges. They need a talented player to replace Tomlinson. They could need upgrades at two OG spots plus RT depending on how the incumbents shake out. They’ll need at least one RG/RT to hedge against Hernandez or Peart failing.
The Giants will have WR talent sitting there every round when they’re on the clock. But they’ll also have their pick of any edge in the class at 11 and a top interior OL at 43. The best way to get the most good players is to wait at WR as they simply aren’t going to take a bunch nor should they.
What if Golladay gets banged up? What’s the plan B there? What if the Giants don’t like the WRs on the board in the later rounds more than who’s there at other positions? If Smith is ranked well above the best edge on the board you expect them to pass to fill a need?
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we pick, and Gettleman's job is simply to manage the payroll and cap. I don't think it's true, but Judge doesn't seem like a guy who'd let Gettleman buy all the groceries.
I don't think that's possible at all.
Its not his choice. The Giants work by consensus. They always have and Judge was well aware of that when he took the job.
What if Golladay gets banged up? What’s the plan B there? What if the Giants don’t like the WRs on the board in the later rounds more than who’s there at other positions? If Smith is ranked well above the best edge on the board you expect them to pass to fill a need?
If Golloday gets banged up then that opens the door for a mid/late rounder to step up. It would also illustrate how stupid it was to give 18 mil per to a guy who gets hurt all the time. But the investment has been made so the expectation needs to be he will play and he will produce.
Yes, I’d take an edge over Smith even if Smith is rated higher. WR is an easy position to fill via the draft or FA. Quality edges are scarce — they’ve been looking to address it for years and they’ve got nothing but washed out mid/late rounders and dumpster diving FAs.
1) All QBs off their board
2) 1st tier - Sewel, Pitts, Chase
3) 2nd tier - Smith, Waddle
4) 3rd tier - CB/LB/Edge (this tier could be 5 or 6 guys)
5) 4 option - trade down, then CB/LB/Edge
They obviously want to come out of rounds 1 and 2 with a WR/TE playmaker and a CB/LB/Edge playmaker. How they get there is anybody's guess.
My bet is that they are predicting that both tiers 1 and 2 are gone by 11 and are barking about edge now. Will be interesting to see if they make a "small" move up for Smith if the cards start to fall that way by 7-8.
Next important detail- whatever Lombardo does repeat, he has heard from second hand people who are likely speculating based on their own biases towards what any team will do.
Final important detail- its lying season. Even if DG somehow went against every team draft practice and personally called up Lombardo to tell him what the pick would be more than 2 weeks before the draft (which obviously did not happen), would we REALLY expect it to be the truth?
Remember that the draft industry is a group of people who try and read the tea leaves and come up with predictions that will make them look good down the road. Most of their "sources" are media types, not team officials.
With that said, reading the multiple pages of posts on this subject, I again submit my theory on "Confirmation Bias" among fans. My theory is and remains that few if any fans have any real substantive knowledge of player evaluation and fewer yet have the ability to extrapolate current performance to future performance. Instead, they read enough magazines, internet posts, blogs, twitter posts and other media until they convince themselves that player X is the ONLY option for their team.
Then, as the draft grows closer, they see media feedback that confirms their belief and mentally reject all contrarian view- in other words, they become SO emotionally invested in THEIR OWN belief on a player that anything the team does that runs against that belief becomes a PERSONAL rejection of THEM. In turn, they seek answers to justify their belief and position, even if it runs contrary to facts.
We see a LOT of evidence of that in this thread. There are a number of posters who say I'm good with whoever. But we also see many who have seen the team go AGAINST their beliefs for so long that they cannot accept management decisions. Yet another group is their selected position or bust.
The problem, in my opinion (recognizing that this seems to have a lack of self-awareness after all of the above), is that people have bought into the draft pick industry views subconsciously to the point that what they believe is a self-developed opinion is really unconscious confirmation bias. Because they cannot separate the two, their opinion becomes a fixation and will lead to weeks and weeks of complaints, perceived insults, and justifications- which will inevitably lead to draft day disappointment.
My recommendation- let go of any fixed belief about any certain player/position that the Giants may draft. Look "big picture" here. Is this draft about 2021- or is it about obtaining building blocks for success beyond 2021 and proactively addressing future needs?
If they like Paye or whoever than so be it, but I’m certainly not going to be mad if we don’t go that route.
If they like Paye or whoever than so be it, but I’m certainly not going to be mad if we don’t go that route.
Uconn, Good points as were those of rich in DC. There are a number of worthy players that will be available at #11(or later if that is the route they choose).
For the first time a a long while, I think this staff will get it right. I think Judge has set a clear vision for what he wants to do. DG knows what Judge wants and needs and will get him those players.
The Giants may very well be leaking names to confuse their intentions, Slater, Smith, Waddle, Paye, Olujari, Surtain, Parsons....even Pitts. All good players that the Giants could use and may be available at 11.
I will enjoy Sy'56s write ups. Sit back read a few BBI mocks and then will probably very happy with whom they chose. What will be interesting is seeing in what direction they go through the draft. Will there be "clusters" will they target an area....this one may be fun.
If they like Paye or whoever than so be it, but I’m certainly not going to be mad if we don’t go that route.
They have a pretty lousy track record so odds are they do go Smith and get very little out of the rest of the draft. That doesn’t make it right.
It’s not about need vs BPA, even though BPA is simply a made up construct. It’s about looking at the draft class in whole and attacking it in a way that gives them the best odds at landing the most talent that can impact. The focus needs to be drafting more quality players in the draft than the rest of the league, not what they do at a specific draft slot for one player.
I don’t care what we did pre 2020 draft. It’s last year and forward for me and Judge has the pulse of what he wants, IMO. If we got WR at 11 that tells me he’s on board.
You’ve already seen this on defense. Absolutely stack the secondary to be able to take whatever is thrown at us and soften the blow of injuries. Manufacture a pass rush and jump on an Edge when the opportunity presents itself.
You’ve already seen this on defense. Absolutely stack the secondary to be able to take whatever is thrown at us and soften the blow of injuries. Manufacture a pass rush and jump on an Edge when the opportunity presents itself.
Championships are won on the backs of good play in the trenches. It doesn’t matter how many good WRs you have. That will never change.
The Giants have an opportunity to solidify their OL and DL in this draft with quality talent. That should be the focus but it probably won’t be.
IMHO you have a better chance spending the night with Tyra Banks than seeing Gettleman make a roster move that Judge doesn’t sign off on.
I don’t care what we did pre 2020 draft. It’s last year and forward for me and Judge has the pulse of what he wants, IMO. If we got WR at 11 that tells me he’s on board.
How is Jones (or any other quarterback) going to get the ball to said WRs if he’s knocked on his butt every other play because the offensive line can’t block better than Swiss cheese?
Again, #11 is just 1 pick. If we can’t strengthen the OL and pass rush outside of spending a first round pick on it than we are in for another change in GM, HC and QB.
I find it very hard to believe that the OLine as presently constituted will start the season. And, the line that finished had Ziegler who was better, maybe much better than Hernandez and Lemioux.
Again, #11 is just 1 pick. If we can’t strengthen the OL and pass rush outside of spending a first round pick on it than we are in for another change in GM, HC and QB.
Agreed UConn. And I’m not sleeping on the guys we have at edge. We literally have 7 players we can rotate right now at edge. Are those players pro bowlers at this point? No. Will they be? Probably not. But having a steady rotation of high energy young edge rushers is not a problem in my opinion. And we can find a Guard in round 2 or 3.
When I mentioned trading for Smith earlier I am picturing a jump of 5 to 6 places in round 1. What would that cost? #11 obviously, then I would say a 3 this year and a 2 next year would get it done. That would allow us to draft a player like Smith or Chase, draft an edge or Guard at 42. You would still have a high fourth rounder and the two 6th rounders as well.
He's got to be hurting his Eagles are in terrible shape
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In comment 15216127 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15216118 Giantsfan79 said:
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of course he couldn't fake interest in someone else or keep it to himself until the draft.
He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy.
Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;)
Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one.
Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post.
are you seriously saying you don't think that over the years the Giants have had quite a few draft room leaks (and sometimes it's screwed us because teams have jumped us, and Smith seems like the type of WR a team may jump us for.)
Stop already. Just because some outlets get the first round pick predicted correctly doesn't mean there was a leak. That my friend is comifmration bias at its very best.
Oh wait, I forgot, EVERYONE just knew the Giants were drafting Daniel Jones and Dexter Lawrence. Sure they did. Should we revisit that draft day thread?
Even if there were "leaks"--whatever that means, there is so much misinformation you can't even take any leak or rumor seriously.
Enough already.
Nope. Sorry. The most likely explanation is there were never really any leaks to begin with, save for maybe 1-2-3 instances (Barkley) and DG was never making all the decisions here. He was never the end all be all voice. Just like it's been here for the last 40 years. The GM works with the HC and the scouts and everyone else and a collaborative decision is made.
Judge has helped the cause. That doesn't mean the Giants have dramatically shifted or changed their entire methodology. Judge knows WTF he's doing where as McAdoo and Shurmur didn't.
Leaks and all this crap...it's nonsense. And letting the world know what you want isn't always the worst tact to take. How the hell do you trade up or down if you can't tell other teams what you want?
Trading up, even if this team doesn't have as many needs as you think, is a bad idea. We're three years removed from the foundation crumbling while DG tried desperately to simultaneously build both the lineup and the pipeline. The starting lineup is close to finished, but the pipeline is still very much a work in progress.
Trading up this year would be a terrible idea, IMO.
Oh, no!
A team might trade up in front of us to draft a WR in a WR-heavy draft class? And doing so might force another prospect down to us?
Whatever will we do?
Nope. Sorry. The most likely explanation is there were never really any leaks to begin with, save for maybe 1-2-3 instances (Barkley) and DG was never making all the decisions here. He was never the end all be all voice. Just like it's been here for the last 40 years. The GM works with the HC and the scouts and everyone else and a collaborative decision is made.
Judge has helped the cause. That doesn't mean the Giants have dramatically shifted or changed their entire methodology. Judge knows WTF he's doing where as McAdoo and Shurmur didn't.
Thou dost protest too much in just one little post...
I can't imagine why. Especially since your post basically suggests that the GM's office has been running smoothly as it ever has, and the only blip in the team W-L record was having McAdoo/Shurmur as head coaches.
I think Pitts, Chase (didn't like the interview with him just replayed on NFL radio; sounded as dumb as a box of rocks)
Really? I've heard Chase interviews before and though he doesn't speak like he's giving a TED Talk, from a football perspective he gave thoughtful answers to the questions being asked of him
@SharpFootball
·
11h
Dave Gettleman has made:
55 picks in the NFL draft over
8 drafts as a GM with
2 teams
and
HAS NEVER TRADED DOWN
Link - ( New Window )
Beyond Gettleman, the Giants haven’t traded down in the first round since 2006 when they moved down for Sinorice Moss.
@SharpFootball
·
11h
Dave Gettleman has made:
55 picks in the NFL draft over
8 drafts as a GM with
2 teams
and
HAS NEVER TRADED DOWN Link - ( New Window )
We have a lazy and unimaginative person for a GM.
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Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
·
11h
Dave Gettleman has made:
55 picks in the NFL draft over
8 drafts as a GM with
2 teams
and
HAS NEVER TRADED DOWN Link - ( New Window )
We have a lazy and unimaginative person for a GM.
What a lazy and unimaginative post. You pay your college scouts handsomely for this. When they tell you a player available is by far better than anyone else on the board are you supposed to trade down and risk losing that player when the picks you will get are, in the opinions of your scouts, not enough to make up the difference? Gettleman may have the final say, but he doesn’t operate in a vacuum like Kevin Costner. Does that mean that I agree with the calls? No. I think there was one offer on what ended up being Barkley pick that he probably should have used more time getting to an acceptable level, but I was not there so I can’t say whether it was merely good starting offer and never anything more. The one thing about Gettleman is that he does not throw his scouts under the bus. Notice we have never found out who was really pushing Baker. That makes me wonder if some of his effusive language is real vs. taking heat off of the scouts.