Lombardo "Gettleman is enamored with DeVonta Smith"

I hope this is true times a million.

This is one rumor "MOST" Giants fans can get behind

And Alabama talent over the last ten years. I’d be pretty confident in smith’s prospects here if the giants drafted him.

with ATL to get him. I don’t think this team has as many needs as some people think.

Would be a glorious day if we get to draft him.

I’m still shocked he’ll be there after 10. It’s almost as if everyone forgot his stats in the championship game:
12 receptions, 215 yards, 3 TDs.

He’s a monster.

In comment 15215992 RCPhoenix said:

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I’m still shocked he’ll be there after 10. It’s almost as if everyone forgot his stats in the championship game: 12 receptions, 215 yards, 3 TDs. He’s a monster.

That was one half also lol.

could possibly NOT be enamored with Smith. Whether or not there's someone else at your pick you're even more enamored with is another story, but c'mon.

Here's to hoping 5 QBs go before us. I think Chase, Pitts, & Sewell all are gone before 11; that gives us 2 picks between us & Smith. If Dallas goes DB, we're down to 1.

With as much inside info on Bama players as Judge appears to have with the Saban roots, I trust that Judge would be all in on this as well if he were selected; which would boost my confidence in the selection. This would also be bolstered by the whispers that Judge has earned a significant voice on player acquisitions.

.

In comment 15216008 90.Cal said:

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.

That’s what I am worried about. I think we are going to have to move up to secure any of the top 3 WR’s. After the top 4 it’s anyone’s guess. There could be tons of trades

odds of him REALISTICALLY being there?

...Isn't this Lying Season?
How do we really know what/who Dave Gettleman really loves (other than Saquan?) I'm more inclined to think that if this topic actually was discussed between Lombardo and Gettleman, it's just smoke and mirrors...

In comment 15215999 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Here's to hoping 5 QBs go before us. I think Chase, Pitts, & Sewell all are gone before 11; that gives us 2 picks between us & Smith. If Dallas goes DB, we're down to 1.

I'm starting to see rumors that Slater is going to go before Sewell as well. So possibly two OTs in the top 10. Also wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Cowboys go CB.

So right there you got 4 QBs (Possibly 5), Slater, Sewell, Pitts, Chase, Surtain/Horn.

If I was Gettleman I'd call Detroit, Carolina & Denver about trading up. IMO Smith is good enough to justify trading up unless the price is insane which I don't think it will be.

In comment 15216014 Big Blue '56 said:

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odds of him REALISTICALLY being there?

I think the odds are better than not that he's there @ 11. Of course I'm hoping that too so that might be clouding my thinking, Haha.

In comment 15216014 Big Blue '56 said:

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odds of him REALISTICALLY being there?

I’d say less than 10%. One of the unexpected teams like ATL, DEN, or DAL will take him. I don’t see any of the top 3 WR’s or Pitts making it to 11.

But becoming enamored with, falling in full bloom love, or anointing a prospect as touched by the hand of god are masks of a really bad GM that has his mind made up and is more likely to make a mistake.

In comment 15216014 Big Blue '56 said:

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odds of him REALISTICALLY being there?

I think the odds of him being there are pretty good to be honest. WRs always seem to go a bit lower than where they are projected to go by the media.

Be optimistic!

I think Waddle or Smith or one of them @ least will be there. I agree that Pitts & Chase will be off the board well prior to 11.

But if he’s there at 11 and the Giants don’t take him BBI will blow up, and not in a good way.

.

In comment 15216022 RCPhoenix said:

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But if he’s there at 11 and the Giants don’t take him BBI will blow up, and not in a good way.

"Origin error".

In comment 15216019 Go Terps said:

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But becoming enamored with, falling in full bloom love, or anointing a prospect as touched by the hand of god are masks of a really bad GM that has his mind made up and is more likely to make a mistake.

Instead of bashing DG, can you instead say if you think he should be the pick at #11? Everyone knows you hate DG.

In comment 15216021 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Be optimistic! I think Waddle or Smith or one of them @ least will be there. I agree that Pitts & Chase will be off the board well prior to 11.

I think a lot of people assume that teams like Atlanta and Cincy are going OL. But if we are enamored with these receivers so are other teams. Julio is old so ATL is in need of a WR, and Cincinnati hasn’t had a true #1 since pre-injury AJ Green like 3 years ago.

It will be like when the Giants passing game was unstoppable after the Engram pick and the Brandon Marshall signing.

In comment 15216027 RCPhoenix said:

Quote:

In comment 15216019 Go Terps said: Quote: But becoming enamored with, falling in full bloom love, or anointing a prospect as touched by the hand of god are masks of a really bad GM that has his mind made up and is more likely to make a mistake. Instead of bashing DG, can you instead say if you think he should be the pick at #11? Everyone knows you hate DG.

My preference is Surtain. Receivers are easy to find. Corners aren't.

In comment 15216032 WillVAB said:

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It will be like when the Giants passing game was unstoppable after the Engram pick and the Brandon Marshall signing.

Ha ha, good point. I do think Golladay and Smith would be a hell of a lot better than that duo though.

with Paye...

but honestly if teams go crazy and the 3 WR’s and Pitts go in the top 10 we will have one hell of a player fall to us at 11.

.

In comment 15216037 robbieballs2003 said:

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Quote: I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL.

If they stay healthy it'd be hard not to think the receiving options between Barkley as a pass catching RB, Rudolph,Engram at TE,and Golladay, Shepard, Smith, Slayton, Ross at WR would not be at least top 5-10.

He reminds me of Marvin Harrison

In comment 15216014 Big Blue '56 said:

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odds of him REALISTICALLY being there?

About 50-50.

Odds of at least one of Chase, Smith, Waddle and Pitts being there: as of today I'm guessing 80%-90%. Trades could change that, but Slater's rise up the board probably pushes one more of them out of the top 10.

I think Chase and Smith are run-to-the-podium prospects. I know others feel the same about Pitts... and Slater... and Sewell... and Surtain...

at this point. Lot of rumor spreading this time of year

That aside, Lombardo isn’t great, but he’s Grantland Rice compared to that queef Pat Leonard

In comment 15216016 Big Rick in FL said:

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If I was Gettleman I'd call Detroit, Carolina & Denver about trading up. IMO Smith is good enough to justify trading up unless the price is insane which I don't think it will be.

Rick, that sounds very uncharacteristic of you, the trade up and at reasonable price?
If EE is part of the price, I think a lot of folks (not you necessarily) going to be take a cold dunk of reality for what he can (not) fetch.

Never denied the talent, but his frame. However, its not very often these wide outs get dropped. Few exceptions I can think of are Antonio Brown and Anquan Boldin and in Brown's case it was a dirty hit by a psychopath.

In comment 15216051 mfsd said:

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at this point. Lot of rumor spreading this time of year That aside, Lombardo isn’t great, but he’s Grantland Rice compared to that queef Pat Leonard

Ha ha, the “queef” reference to Leonard made my day.

along with chase, Pitts, Lawrence etc. doesn’t mean anything.

i am too

In comment 15216019 Go Terps said:

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But becoming enamored with, falling in full bloom love, or anointing a prospect as touched by the hand of god are masks of a really bad GM that has his mind made up and is more likely to make a mistake.

Agreed. I have a feeling this happens often with Gettleman, which is the sticking point with him trading down. I get the feeling, he zeroes in on his guys in certain rounds, and won't move down the board if there is value. Just a feeling you may be right, for right or wrong.

Which would you choose?

Pick anyway.

In comment 15216063 RAIN said:

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In comment 15216019 Go Terps said: Quote: But becoming enamored with, falling in full bloom love, or anointing a prospect as touched by the hand of god are masks of a really bad GM that has his mind made up and is more likely to make a mistake. Agreed. I have a feeling this happens often with Gettleman, which is the sticking point with him trading down. I get the feeling, he zeroes in on his guys in certain rounds, and won't move down the board if there is value. Just a feeling you may be right, for right or wrong.

Well now he's got JJ to tamper all that.

Gettleman's call?

Believe it when I see it.

IF true, sounds like a potential trade up. Honestly, I'm not crazy about Smith in the first place (waaaaaay too skinny to hold up in the NFL IMHO). IF Enamored = trade up, almost throw the remote time.

Hopefully Gettleman will "let the draft come to him". The Giants need a solid future starter from their 1st round pick. Given how strong the 2nd and 3rd round WR class is, I'd be completely fine with a non-WR pick in the 1st round.

I think Surtain is probably the safest pick. Pitts and Chase will almost surely be gone, as will at least 3 QBs (likely 4, possibly 5).

I think Pitts, Chase (didn't like the interview with him just replayed on NFL radio; sounded as dumb as a box of rocks) and Sewell are the top non-QBs. Potentially, all three Alabama projected top 15 players (Waddle, D Smith and Surtain) might be sitting there when the Giants pick at #11. I trust that Judge's connection with Saban will help him make the right choice.

In comment 15216018 eric2425ny said:

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In comment 15216014 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: odds of him REALISTICALLY being there? I’d say less than 10%. One of the unexpected teams like ATL, DEN, or DAL will take him. I don’t see any of the top 3 WR’s or Pitts making it to 11.

I disagree. IMO there is high percentage that he or Waddle are there

In comment 15216079 Bill in UT said:

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Gettleman's call?

Why wouldn't it be?

I get that many of us want Judge to have the gavel, but it's still hard for me to buy that Mara has changed the operations at Jints Central.

This 'Smith is too small for the NFL'...I don't get this talking point. Remember Marvin Harrison? He was a small dude &-if memory serves-had a pretty good NFL career one would say.

fine with Smith at #11, but I wouldn’t trade up for him or anyone else. But I could see Gettleman doing so. His legacy is tied to Jones, and he may feel that Smith is who his QB needs to be successful.

Smith is a silky smooth route runner, elusive, with fantastic change of direction skills. He’s also a gifted route runner who sinks his hips beautifully and can create additional separation by how quickly he can get in and out of breaks. His top end speed is excellent. His hands are fantastic, including a repertoire of highlight reel catches.

My understanding is that his finger isn’t quite healed, but I assume it will be shortly. The main concern is his rail thin frame. He’s 6’1” and about 170. Can he take the pounding in the NFL? Fine china is beautiful, until it’s broken.

say to the teams they are considering trading down with that they better pay a kings ransom for the 11th pick because we want Smith

In comment 15216103 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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This 'Smith is too small for the NFL'...I don't get this talking point. Remember Marvin Harrison? He was a small dude &-if memory serves-had a pretty good NFL career one would say.

I don't think the Harrison comps are apt. Harrison was sturdier in the legs and ran with a choppier style.

The Isaac Bruce comp makes much more sense to me.

If he's Isaac Bruce 2.0...sign me up.

In comment 15216079 Bill in UT said:

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Gettleman's call?

Yup. Judge makes the call, imo.. They work well together according to Mara. DG will sign off on anyone Judge and staff are really high on, imv..The Draft and this year’s FA were different under Judge and DG

In comment 15216019 Go Terps said:

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But becoming enamored with, falling in full bloom love, or anointing a prospect as touched by the hand of god are masks of a really bad GM that has his mind made up and is more likely to make a mistake.

I like Smith too but I agree the enamored, full bloom nonsense is bizarre. He's a football player, not the blonde in your biology class.

In comment 15216113 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 15216079 Bill in UT said: Quote: Gettleman's call? Yup. Judge makes the call, imo.. They work well together according to Mara. DG will sign off on anyone Judge and staff are really high on, imv..The Draft and this year’s FA were different under Judge and DG

Mara has enormous respect and faith in Judge, imv. Judge is the FIRST HC Mara has seen where the players play 60 for 60, at least since TC was in his prime here

no one leaks they are enamored with a pick

of course he couldn't fake interest in someone else or keep it to himself until the draft.

In comment 15216117 stoneman said:

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no one leaks they are enamored with a pick

one would hope

we pick, and Gettleman's job is simply to manage the payroll and cap. I don't think it's true, but Judge doesn't seem like a guy who'd let Gettleman buy all the groceries.

In comment 15216118 Giantsfan79 said:

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of course he couldn't fake interest in someone else or keep it to himself until the draft.

He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy.

Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;)

DG doesn't have the same latitude he used to bw.


the more likelier scenario is someone trades in front of the Giants for Smith.

I’m pretty convinced that for the most part the 2020 draft was Judge’s draft. In fact, I’m of the mind that the only way Gettleman kept the GM job this year was because Judge said he could work with him. Judge is responsible for player stuff and Gettleman for administrative stuff. So, if Gettleman actually told a reporter about Smith, take it to the bank that he’s blowing smoke.

Every single one of the usual suspects has now shown up to say the same thing they have been saying for 3 years. No....no new material. Just the same thing on a different thread.

Have at it guys, get it out of your system....at least until the next thread about a draft prospect you want to hijack.

In comment 15216037 robbieballs2003 said:

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Quote: I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL.

Can you name a better group from top to bottom?

A Pro Bowler as your #1. Smith as your #2 (Yeah he could be a bust, but everything points to him being a stud). Shepard in the slot. Having players like Darius Slayton & John Ross as your 4th and 5th WR is damn good. Can't imagine there are many teams in the NFL that have a 4th WR that's averaged 750 yards and 5.5 TDs for their career.

In comment 15216052 ColHowPepper said:

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In comment 15216016 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: If I was Gettleman I'd call Detroit, Carolina & Denver about trading up. IMO Smith is good enough to justify trading up unless the price is insane which I don't think it will be. Rick, that sounds very uncharacteristic of you, the trade up and at reasonable price? If EE is part of the price, I think a lot of folks (not you necessarily) going to be take a cold dunk of reality for what he can (not) fetch.

Normally I'm not very interested in trading up, but I like Smith a lot. Always have. Thought he was better than Jeudy & Ruggs last year. Think he's a guy who will be a consistent 1200 yard and 8+ TD guy. Davante Adams type guy.

In comment 15216134 Samiam said:

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I’m pretty convinced that for the most part the 2020 draft was Judge’s draft. In fact, I’m of the mind that the only way Gettleman kept the GM job this year was because Judge said he could work with him. Judge is responsible for player stuff and Gettleman for administrative stuff. So, if Gettleman actually told a reporter about Smith, take it to the bank that he’s blowing smoke.

Yup

In comment 15216143 Big Rick in FL said:

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In comment 15216037 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Quote: I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL. Can you name a better group from top to bottom? A Pro Bowler as your #1. Smith as your #2 (Yeah he could be a bust, but everything points to him being a stud). Shepard in the slot. Having players like Darius Slayton & John Ross as your 4th and 5th WR is damn good. Can't imagine there are many teams in the NFL that have a 4th WR that's averaged 750 yards and 5.5 TDs for their career.

Tampa?

In comment 15216127 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15216118 Giantsfan79 said: Quote: of course he couldn't fake interest in someone else or keep it to himself until the draft. He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;)

Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one.

Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post.

..

Some of you guys have really dropped your trust in Gettleman like a hot potato.

In comment 15216143 Big Rick in FL said:

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In comment 15216037 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Quote: I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL. Can you name a better group from top to bottom? A Pro Bowler as your #1. Smith as your #2 (Yeah he could be a bust, but everything points to him being a stud). Shepard in the slot. Having players like Darius Slayton & John Ross as your 4th and 5th WR is damn good. Can't imagine there are many teams in the NFL that have a 4th WR that's averaged 750 yards and 5.5 TDs for their career.

Yes. This isn't about paper. This is about production. Lets not crown them before they've proven anything. That is the point. Let them prove something before we start saying they are the best at anything. I hate rankings whether it is teams, groups, or individuals. It's foolish imo. Why can't we just say that would be a nice group on paper and an improvement from what we've recently have? Why do we have to get into comparisons with other teams?

I am a big Slayton fan but he's always banged up. Shepard has had way too many concussions and other nagging injuries. Ross is a bum. I like Golladay but he still has to reach the potential that most believe he should attain. Any rookie WR is far from a given. Potential? Yes. Best unit? They have a long way to go to be given that crown.

Also, lets look at what makes a great WR corps. You need a QB that can sling it. Daniel Jones is going to have to have a monster year to prove that these WRs are enough. And DJ needs help from his OL. This is the ultimate team sport for a reason.

Arizona comes to mind along with KC, Dallas, and TB off the top of my head.

In comment 15216157 chopperhatch said:

Quote:

In comment 15216143 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: In comment 15216037 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Quote: I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL. Can you name a better group from top to bottom? A Pro Bowler as your #1. Smith as your #2 (Yeah he could be a bust, but everything points to him being a stud). Shepard in the slot. Having players like Darius Slayton & John Ross as your 4th and 5th WR is damn good. Can't imagine there are many teams in the NFL that have a 4th WR that's averaged 750 yards and 5.5 TDs for their career. Tampa?

AB is gone though right. So it’s just Evans and Godwin now. I agree with Rick, if we add Smith or IMO Waddle who may even be a better compliment to Golladay we would have an amazing receiving corps. If Shepard, Slayton, and Ross are your 3, 4, 5 that’s pretty damn good.

In comment 15216160 christian said:

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Some of you guys have really dropped your trust in Gettleman like a hot potato.

It’s because it appears to be a group effort now, with Judge having a say, and potentially others. It’s not DG out there wheeling and dealing with his dick in his hand.

In comment 15216143 Big Rick in FL said:

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In comment 15216037 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Quote: I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL. Can you name a better group from top to bottom? A Pro Bowler as your #1. Smith as your #2 (Yeah he could be a bust, but everything points to him being a stud). Shepard in the slot. Having players like Darius Slayton & John Ross as your 4th and 5th WR is damn good. Can't imagine there are many teams in the NFL that have a 4th WR that's averaged 750 yards and 5.5 TDs for their career.

And don't forget our stud, ProBowl, mismatch machine at TE

In comment 15216163 eric2425ny said:

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It’s because it appears to be a group effort now, with Judge having a say, and potentially others. It’s not DG out there wheeling and dealing with his dick in his hand.

That’s the best description of 2018 and 2019 I’ve read on this site, hands down.

On multiple occasions proven that he doesn’t have any inside sources in the Giants organization yet some posters have taken his word as fact. Just another chance to hijack the thread and turn it into a bash Gettleman thread.

In comment 15216162 eric2425ny said:

Quote:

In comment 15216157 chopperhatch said: Quote: In comment 15216143 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: In comment 15216037 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Quote: I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL. Can you name a better group from top to bottom? A Pro Bowler as your #1. Smith as your #2 (Yeah he could be a bust, but everything points to him being a stud). Shepard in the slot. Having players like Darius Slayton & John Ross as your 4th and 5th WR is damn good. Can't imagine there are many teams in the NFL that have a 4th WR that's averaged 750 yards and 5.5 TDs for their career. Tampa? AB is gone though right. So it’s just Evans and Godwin now. I agree with Rick, if we add Smith or IMO Waddle who may even be a better compliment to Golladay we would have an amazing receiving corps. If Shepard, Slayton, and Ross are your 3, 4, 5 that’s pretty damn good.

Scotty Miller played very well. Having a better 3, 4, and/or 5 WR doesn't mean you have a better group of WR. You can't just dismiss Evans and Godwin. They were both awesome prior to Brady showing up.

Look at Atlanta. Julio and Ridley is a ridiculous combo and Gage played well too. And Seattle had arguably the best 1-2 punch last year with Metcalf and Lockett and Moore was their number 3.

Again, long story short, why do we need to vault an unproven unit to the top of any list? Isn't it good enough to just say we have enough at the position to improve a ton?

In comment 15216158 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15216118 Giantsfan79 said: Quote: of course he couldn't fake interest in someone else or keep it to himself until the draft. He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post.

are you seriously saying you don't think that over the years the Giants have had quite a few draft room leaks (and sometimes it's screwed us because teams have jumped us, and Smith seems like the type of WR a team may jump us for.)

The Giants are an Golladay injury away from being a mediocre receiving corps again. Shep is a concussion away from retirement and so where does that really leave us?! A guy like Smith would go a long way in solidifying this receiving offense.

is not as enamored

In comment 15216019 Go Terps said:

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But becoming enamored with, falling in full bloom love, or anointing a prospect as touched by the hand of god are masks of a really bad GM that has his mind made up and is more likely to make a mistake.

Andy Reid was in full bloom love with Mahomes. Guess that did not work out for him

In comment 15216174 Giantsfan79 said:

Quote:

In comment 15216158 djm said: Quote: In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15216118 Giantsfan79 said: Quote: of course he couldn't fake interest in someone else or keep it to himself until the draft. He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post. are you seriously saying you don't think that over the years the Giants have had quite a few draft room leaks (and sometimes it's screwed us because teams have jumped us, and Smith seems like the type of WR a team may jump us for.)

That happened during the Reese days. Nice try.

Especially if the Giants add DeVonta Smith or Jaylen Waddle. I’m looking forward to how Dante Pettis, John Ross, and last years training camp star David Sills perform in camp. Pettis and Ross bring the blazing speed and hopefully both will contribute as return men this season. It’s unfortunate that Sills missed the entire season because he would have had an opportunity to earn significant playing time.

In comment 15216158 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15216118 Giantsfan79 said: Quote: of course he couldn't fake interest in someone else or keep it to himself until the draft. He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post.

I guessed Jones at 6 in February before that draft. I said again Jones would be in play at 6 on Jones's Pro Day thread. You could see that coming from miles away. Eli 2.0.

In comment 15216168 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 15216163 eric2425ny said: Quote: It’s because it appears to be a group effort now, with Judge having a say, and potentially others. It’s not DG out there wheeling and dealing with his dick in his hand. That’s the best description of 2018 and 2019 I’ve read on this site, hands down.

Ha ha, while the imagery may be disturbing it is also probably true.

Visions of Tom Cruise’s character from Tropic Thunder come to mind when I picture DG in the war room on draft day in 2018 and 2019. Maybe a little puffier.

In comment 15216158 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post.

Uh, Jones possibly going #6 was absolutely discussed.

I think there were two loose camps around that - 1)if you really believe in Jones as the QB just take him at #6 even if it may be too high and 2)Jones wasn't talented enough to justify using the 6th pick on him.

In comment 15216190 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15216158 djm said: Quote: In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post. Uh, Jones possibly going #6 was absolutely discussed. I think there were two loose camps around that - 1)if you really believe in Jones as the QB just take him at #6 even if it may be too high and 2)Jones wasn't talented enough to justify using the 6th pick on him.

This is true, I remember the endless posts on this topic.

In comment 15216173 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 15216162 eric2425ny said: Quote: In comment 15216157 chopperhatch said: Quote: In comment 15216143 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: In comment 15216037 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Quote: I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL. Can you name a better group from top to bottom? A Pro Bowler as your #1. Smith as your #2 (Yeah he could be a bust, but everything points to him being a stud). Shepard in the slot. Having players like Darius Slayton & John Ross as your 4th and 5th WR is damn good. Can't imagine there are many teams in the NFL that have a 4th WR that's averaged 750 yards and 5.5 TDs for their career. Tampa? AB is gone though right. So it’s just Evans and Godwin now. I agree with Rick, if we add Smith or IMO Waddle who may even be a better compliment to Golladay we would have an amazing receiving corps. If Shepard, Slayton, and Ross are your 3, 4, 5 that’s pretty damn good. Scotty Miller played very well. Having a better 3, 4, and/or 5 WR doesn't mean you have a better group of WR. You can't just dismiss Evans and Godwin. They were both awesome prior to Brady showing up. Look at Atlanta. Julio and Ridley is a ridiculous combo and Gage played well too. And Seattle had arguably the best 1-2 punch last year with Metcalf and Lockett and Moore was their number 3. Again, long story short, why do we need to vault an unproven unit to the top of any list? Isn't it good enough to just say we have enough at the position to improve a ton?

Yea that’s a good benchmark to strive for, Atlanta.

It will be idiotic if the Giants burn the 11th pick in the draft after spending 18 mil per on a WR. Especially so considering they can find WR talent as deep as either of their 6th round picks.

If they go WR at 11 it will just be another strategically inept draft of the DG era where they’re a day late and a dollar short trying to play it safe building the roster.

(and I agree) leaking this info means they really want Waddle. I'd be happy with either Smith or Waddle.

In comment 15216205 WillVAB said:

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In comment 15216173 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: In comment 15216162 eric2425ny said: Quote: In comment 15216157 chopperhatch said: Quote: In comment 15216143 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: In comment 15216037 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Quote: I would absolutely love for the Giants to draft Smith. If we added him we'd probably have the best receiving corp in the NFL. Can you name a better group from top to bottom? A Pro Bowler as your #1. Smith as your #2 (Yeah he could be a bust, but everything points to him being a stud). Shepard in the slot. Having players like Darius Slayton & John Ross as your 4th and 5th WR is damn good. Can't imagine there are many teams in the NFL that have a 4th WR that's averaged 750 yards and 5.5 TDs for their career. Tampa? AB is gone though right. So it’s just Evans and Godwin now. I agree with Rick, if we add Smith or IMO Waddle who may even be a better compliment to Golladay we would have an amazing receiving corps. If Shepard, Slayton, and Ross are your 3, 4, 5 that’s pretty damn good. Scotty Miller played very well. Having a better 3, 4, and/or 5 WR doesn't mean you have a better group of WR. You can't just dismiss Evans and Godwin. They were both awesome prior to Brady showing up. Look at Atlanta. Julio and Ridley is a ridiculous combo and Gage played well too. And Seattle had arguably the best 1-2 punch last year with Metcalf and Lockett and Moore was their number 3. Again, long story short, why do we need to vault an unproven unit to the top of any list? Isn't it good enough to just say we have enough at the position to improve a ton? Yea that’s a good benchmark to strive for, Atlanta. It will be idiotic if the Giants burn the 11th pick in the draft after spending 18 mil per on a WR. Especially so considering they can find WR talent as deep as either of their 6th round picks. If they go WR at 11 it will just be another strategically inept draft of the DG era where they’re a day late and a dollar short trying to play it safe building the roster.

So why didn’t the Giants draft a wide receiver last year so they wouldn’t be in this predicament?

I get where you are coming from but a few of these top receivers look pretty special. I mean Smith won the Heisman, big deal right, many players have won the Heisman and sucked in the NFL. What floored me is what he did in the National Championship game against a defense that will have multiple NFL players on it.

He was a machine. He was outside, in the slot, returning punts, he put up 200+ yards and 3 TD’s in one half. I liked him before that game and afterwards was like shit, there goes any chance of us getting him at 11.

It’s a passing league by design. The NFL has made it almost impossible to play defense for two reasons: 1.) the concussion issue and 2.) how much money fantasy football makes them and promoting a passing league equals more points, more yards, more TD’s, more people who wouldn’t be regular fans in the 80’s and 90’s becoming regular viewers because they have something at stake in their fantasy football league.

The more I've studied these receivers, I'm on Waddle.

Smith I believe is a perfect fit for the Giants, and will be very good right away. I expect Smith to be a very good receiver.

But Waddle excites me more, and I believe he's also a perfect fit for the Giants. I just believe Waddle is uncoverable.

I won't be unhappy with either, but Waddle is the true nightmare that can take this offense to a different dimension.

In comment 15216219 allstarjim said:

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The more I've studied these receivers, I'm on Waddle. Smith I believe is a perfect fit for the Giants, and will be very good right away. I expect Smith to be a very good receiver. But Waddle excites me more, and I believe he's also a perfect fit for the Giants. I just believe Waddle is uncoverable. I won't be unhappy with either, but Waddle is the true nightmare that can take this offense to a different dimension.

Same. Uncoverable, he will put his in the ground and explode. Instant separation.

In comment 15216190 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15216158 djm said: Quote: In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post. Uh, Jones possibly going #6 was absolutely discussed. I think there were two loose camps around that - 1)if you really believe in Jones as the QB just take him at #6 even if it may be too high and 2)Jones wasn't talented enough to justify using the 6th pick on him.

No it wasnt. I mean of course it was glanced over, but the talk was that we would take Jones at 15 or 17....whatever the Browns pick was. The only talk was that media types knew the Giants liked him, was a possibility with the 2nd 1st they had and then fewer media were suggesting "if you like a QB, you dont wait." Jones at 6 was absolutely a surprise.

I think this is what gives him the edge over Waddle.

In comment 15216227 chopperhatch said:

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In comment 15216190 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15216158 djm said: Quote: In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post. Uh, Jones possibly going #6 was absolutely discussed. I think there were two loose camps around that - 1)if you really believe in Jones as the QB just take him at #6 even if it may be too high and 2)Jones wasn't talented enough to justify using the 6th pick on him. No it wasnt. I mean of course it was glanced over, but the talk was that we would take Jones at 15 or 17....whatever the Browns pick was. The only talk was that media types knew the Giants liked him, was a possibility with the 2nd 1st they had and then fewer media were suggesting "if you like a QB, you dont wait." Jones at 6 was absolutely a surprise.

No, it wasn't.

In comment 15216160 christian said:

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Some of you guys have really dropped your trust in Gettleman like a hot potato.

Oh yes. Very noticeable how the distancing from DG has taken place. Not direct criticism of course, but the promotion of Judge taking the lead and signing off on things.

And it’s still unknown really how much...

I've been saying it
Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link
This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 15216241 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15216227 chopperhatch said: Quote: In comment 15216190 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15216158 djm said: Quote: In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post. Uh, Jones possibly going #6 was absolutely discussed. I think there were two loose camps around that - 1)if you really believe in Jones as the QB just take him at #6 even if it may be too high and 2)Jones wasn't talented enough to justify using the 6th pick on him. No it wasnt. I mean of course it was glanced over, but the talk was that we would take Jones at 15 or 17....whatever the Browns pick was. The only talk was that media types knew the Giants liked him, was a possibility with the 2nd 1st they had and then fewer media were suggesting "if you like a QB, you dont wait." Jones at 6 was absolutely a surprise. No, it wasn't.

Lol, go to bed. Yes it was. Taking him at 6 was. You choose what you want to remember to fit your narrative that everybody is sick of at this point. Go root for another team. Nobody cares.

In comment 15216190 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15216158 djm said: Quote: In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post. Uh, Jones possibly going #6 was absolutely discussed. I think there were two loose camps around that - 1)if you really believe in Jones as the QB just take him at #6 even if it may be too high and 2)Jones wasn't talented enough to justify using the 6th pick on him.

Yep

I think it's my hemorrhoids!

Is Lombardo Karnack now?

Will all the GM's who HATE Smith please raise their hands!

That said, I would be perfectly delighted if they took him at #11. The problem with that is he's likely long gone.

Trading current or future picks to go up and get him? I've got a BIG problem with that.

One of a top edge rusher, a top OT/OG combination, or a top wr will be available at 11. Trading away assets instead of waiting for one of the three seems foolish. And yes, we have a lot of slots to fill, from edge to OT to wr to rb to third TE to lb.

But only because Josh Allen was shockingly available.

I absolutely remember the possibility of Jones being our pick at 6 being discussed a lot.

In comment 15216245 Go Terps said:

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I've been saying it Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window )

Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier.

Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well.

In comment 15216028 eric2425ny said:

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In comment 15216021 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: Be optimistic! I think Waddle or Smith or one of them @ least will be there. I agree that Pitts & Chase will be off the board well prior to 11. I think a lot of people assume that teams like Atlanta and Cincy are going OL. But if we are enamored with these receivers so are other teams. Julio is old so ATL is in need of a WR, and Cincinnati hasn’t had a true #1 since pre-injury AJ Green like 3 years ago.

That’s a solid point! I didn’t even think ATL would consider WR.... but they would have their pick of the wideouts... shit...D Smith is never gonna last to 11.

I’d be pretty stoked if we had a shot at either Waddle or Pitts... that’s my “realistic” dream scenario haha. In real life, we have low odds of getting either unfortunately... but we’re gonna have a shot at an impact player of some kind, so that’s great news

In comment 15216265 HMunster said:

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In comment 15216245 Go Terps said: Quote: I've been saying it Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window ) Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier. Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well.

I haven't hid being wrong about Jones at all. It's why it doesn't hold water when people say I hated Jones.

In comment 15216070 crick n NC said:

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Pick anyway.

This. DG can be enamored all he wants, but Judge will need to be also. I am sure DG likes half the top 10 picks.

Hard to believe it took until the bottom of the 1st page for someone to chime in on Judge's input.

In comment 15215988 eric2425ny said:

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with ATL to get him. I don’t think this team has as many needs as some people think.

Just off the top of my head I'd mention:
Interior Oline (2 players needed), Edge Rusher, TE, CB, Depth at Dline (look at contracts expiring after upcoming season), and RB....as well as WR.

The Giants only have 6 picks, they do not have the ability to trade up and address their needs properly.

In comment 15216280 Tom in NY said:

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In comment 15215988 eric2425ny said: Quote: with ATL to get him. I don’t think this team has as many needs as some people think. Just off the top of my head I'd mention: Interior Oline (2 players needed), Edge Rusher, TE, CB, Depth at Dline (look at contracts expiring after upcoming season), and RB....as well as WR. The Giants only have 6 picks, they do not have the ability to trade up and address their needs properly.

When fans (not just Giants fans) look at a roster, and this has included myself at times, there’s this desire to see an entrenched starter and a solid young backup when evaluating every position on a team. With the roster size of an NFL team and salary cap limitations that is pretty much impossible to do. Think about the fact that most teams walk away with 7 draft picks every year, which means you are automatically churning about 13% of your roster on an annual basis. And that’s not including FA moves.

When I look at the needs you have listed I would agree if you are looking for what I mentioned above. However, we will likely draft one Guard to compete with the other 4 we have today (Hernandez, Lemieux, Fulton, Murphy), we may draft one edge (already have 7 on the roster including the new pickups Anderson and Odenigbo), may not draft a TE (have Engram, Rudolph, Toilolo, and Smith), and corner is pretty loaded at the moment.

I’m not saying we have zero needs, but every team in the league has needs and will still have needs post FA and draft. If the Giants see something amazing in a player and the cost isn’t insane you trade up if needed.

In comment 15216265 HMunster said:

Quote:

In comment 15216245 Go Terps said: Quote: I've been saying it Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window ) Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier. Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well.

Yes because it would be outlandish for posters on BBI to share their opinions on players. And oh my word...be wrong! Are you keeping score of all the rights and wrongs?

What did you happen to post about those players...did you even have a thought or was it to sit around and wait and see...

In comment 15216265 HMunster said:

Quote:

In comment 15216245 Go Terps said: Quote: I've been saying it Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window ) Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier. Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well.

Where? I grew to be very anti-Haskins.

In comment 15216264 santacruzom said:

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But only because Josh Allen was shockingly available. I absolutely remember the possibility of Jones being our pick at 6 being discussed a lot.

Mels last mock had Jones to NYG 6 as well. His rise to the mid 1st round seemed to happen the last weeks leading onto the draft. The fact that Allen was there and all of the know-it-alls assume they could have picked both. Was it not reported that they tried to move into #8 to get Allen, but he was taken the next pick. Better off assured of your QB pick than get cute.

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Go Terps : 3/26/2019 4:13 pm : link I'm also only thinking about this next QB in terms of a 4 year window. Unless he's Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes he won't be worth paying a second contract.

This is why I don’t understand all of the endless debate on Jones. The Giants liked him in 2019 and took him at #6. He’s entering year 3 of his rookie contract. As Terps mentions, we should all look at QB’s in 4 year windows, this is the make of break year. He either sinks or swims.

When the Giants were sitting at 1-7, I was all about moving off Jones if it made sense (top 5 draft pick), but it doesn’t now. Picking at 11 will not put the Giants in a position to draft a clear upgrade at QB.

the next 2 1/2 weeks..

In comment 15216286 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 15216265 HMunster said: Quote: In comment 15216245 Go Terps said: Quote: I've been saying it Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window ) Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier. Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well. Yes because it would be outlandish for posters on BBI to share their opinions on players. And oh my word...be wrong! Are you keeping score of all the rights and wrongs? What did you happen to post about those players...did you even have a thought or was it to sit around and wait and see...

First, chill. Smile a little. Playful ribbing, is all.

Second, regarding my own posts on the topic, I actually didn’t know about this board until the middle of last season and registered a year and a few months in January 2020. But to answer your question I was hopeful that Jones would be the pick, but at #17. I watched all the typical pre-draft footage and even some other ones (like Cutcliffe’s presentation at Duke on Jones) and wanted him. I wanted no part of Haskins for all the reasons why he’s now on Pittsburgh. But when Josh Allen was sitting there and we took Jones instead, that was a remote thrower for me. Was happy with Dex at #17, but at the time thought Jones at #6 was the wrong move by DG. Then we got word about how DJ wasn’t going to be there and it made the pick more tolerable but tough to swallow. But in terms of talent, fundamentals and intangibles like maturity and work ethic, I loved what DJ had to offer. The big concern at the time was arm strength and getting the ball downfield and I thought that was overblown. Anyway, those are my honest thoughts from back then.

In comment 15216217 eric2425ny said:

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I get where you are coming from but a few of these top receivers look pretty special. I mean Smith won the Heisman, big deal right, many players have won the Heisman and sucked in the NFL. What floored me is what he did in the National Championship game against a defense that will have multiple NFL players on it. He was a machine. He was outside, in the slot, returning punts, he put up 200+ yards and 3 TD’s in one half. I liked him before that game and afterwards was like shit, there goes any chance of us getting him at 11. It’s a passing league by design. The NFL has made it almost impossible to play defense for two reasons: 1.) the concussion issue and 2.) how much money fantasy football makes them and promoting a passing league equals more points, more yards, more TD’s, more people who wouldn’t be regular fans in the 80’s and 90’s becoming regular viewers because they have something at stake in their fantasy football league.

Smith is a beast but I just don’t think he’s the right pick given the roster construction and talent depth at the WR position in the upcoming draft. I want 5+ quality players in the draft, not 1-2. The best way to get there is to grab a WR late bc the talent will be there.

But boy is it hard to argue against Smith at 11. Would anyone be all tha5 surprised if he was inducted into Canton after his career? He’s spent the last two seasons smoking the best secondary players in the country. Why wouldn’t he just keep doing that at the next level?

In comment 15216329 HMunster said:

Quote:

In comment 15216286 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: In comment 15216265 HMunster said: Quote: In comment 15216245 Go Terps said: Quote: I've been saying it Go Terps : 3/26/2019 2:59 pm : link This guy is going to shoot up the boards. I think he'll absolutely be in play at 6. Link - ( New Window ) Best part of that thread was you defending DJ and saying he’d be your choice outside of Murray over Haskins, Lock or Grier. Oh and BW and GiantsFan drooling over Haskins. That aged well. Yes because it would be outlandish for posters on BBI to share their opinions on players. And oh my word...be wrong! Are you keeping score of all the rights and wrongs? What did you happen to post about those players...did you even have a thought or was it to sit around and wait and see... First, chill. Smile a little. Playful ribbing, is all. Second, regarding my own posts on the topic, I actually didn’t know about this board until the middle of last season and registered a year and a few months in January 2020. But to answer your question I was hopeful that Jones would be the pick, but at #17. I watched all the typical pre-draft footage and even some other ones (like Cutcliffe’s presentation at Duke on Jones) and wanted him. I wanted no part of Haskins for all the reasons why he’s now on Pittsburgh. But when Josh Allen was sitting there and we took Jones instead, that was a remote thrower for me. Was happy with Dex at #17, but at the time thought Jones at #6 was the wrong move by DG. Then we got word about how DJ wasn’t going to be there and it made the pick more tolerable but tough to swallow. But in terms of talent, fundamentals and intangibles like maturity and work ethic, I loved what DJ had to offer. The big concern at the time was arm strength and getting the ball downfield and I thought that was overblown. Anyway, those are my honest thoughts from back then.

DJ would have been there at 17...

If the Giants decided not to draft Deandre Baker?

In comment 15216185 eric2425ny said:

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In comment 15216168 christian said: Quote: In comment 15216163 eric2425ny said: Quote: It’s because it appears to be a group effort now, with Judge having a say, and potentially others. It’s not DG out there wheeling and dealing with his dick in his hand. That’s the best description of 2018 and 2019 I’ve read on this site, hands down. Ha ha, while the imagery may be disturbing it is also probably true. Visions of Tom Cruise’s character from Tropic Thunder come to mind when I picture DG in the war room on draft day in 2018 and 2019. Maybe a little puffier.

Davonte, Do It!

In comment 15216343 WillVAB said:

Quote:

In comment 15216217 eric2425ny said: Quote: I get where you are coming from but a few of these top receivers look pretty special. I mean Smith won the Heisman, big deal right, many players have won the Heisman and sucked in the NFL. What floored me is what he did in the National Championship game against a defense that will have multiple NFL players on it. He was a machine. He was outside, in the slot, returning punts, he put up 200+ yards and 3 TD’s in one half. I liked him before that game and afterwards was like shit, there goes any chance of us getting him at 11. It’s a passing league by design. The NFL has made it almost impossible to play defense for two reasons: 1.) the concussion issue and 2.) how much money fantasy football makes them and promoting a passing league equals more points, more yards, more TD’s, more people who wouldn’t be regular fans in the 80’s and 90’s becoming regular viewers because they have something at stake in their fantasy football league. Smith is a beast but I just don’t think he’s the right pick given the roster construction and talent depth at the WR position in the upcoming draft. I want 5+ quality players in the draft, not 1-2. The best way to get there is to grab a WR late bc the talent will be there.

We can take 2. Regardless of how this season plays out Shepard is likely gone after 2021 as we’d save $6.5m in 2022 and $9.5m in 2023. If this WR class is as deep as everyone says it is we can take one at 11 and then use a mid rounder as well, hopefully to contribute this year on specials, and get PT as the 5th WR.

Just not a fan of ignoring top end players just because the class is deep - that just means teams will be taking WRs over another position, especially in a league that’s pass happy with big contracts being dished out at the position.

In comment 15216124 CT Charlie said:

Quote:

we pick, and Gettleman's job is simply to manage the payroll and cap. I don't think it's true, but Judge doesn't seem like a guy who'd let Gettleman buy all the groceries.

I don't think that's possible at all.

In comment 15216272 section125 said:

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In comment 15216070 crick n NC said: Quote: Pick anyway. This. DG can be enamored all he wants, but Judge will need to be also. I am sure DG likes half the top 10 picks. Hard to believe it took until the bottom of the 1st page for someone to chime in on Judge's input.

Why? It's in the thread title, it's about DGs opinion, . Not judges. This pretending Judge is the GM and has final say on all draft choices, regardless of whether Gettleman agrees or not, is pure fantasy, BTW.

In comment 15216353 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 15216343 WillVAB said: Quote: In comment 15216217 eric2425ny said: Quote: I get where you are coming from but a few of these top receivers look pretty special. I mean Smith won the Heisman, big deal right, many players have won the Heisman and sucked in the NFL. What floored me is what he did in the National Championship game against a defense that will have multiple NFL players on it. He was a machine. He was outside, in the slot, returning punts, he put up 200+ yards and 3 TD’s in one half. I liked him before that game and afterwards was like shit, there goes any chance of us getting him at 11. It’s a passing league by design. The NFL has made it almost impossible to play defense for two reasons: 1.) the concussion issue and 2.) how much money fantasy football makes them and promoting a passing league equals more points, more yards, more TD’s, more people who wouldn’t be regular fans in the 80’s and 90’s becoming regular viewers because they have something at stake in their fantasy football league. Smith is a beast but I just don’t think he’s the right pick given the roster construction and talent depth at the WR position in the upcoming draft. I want 5+ quality players in the draft, not 1-2. The best way to get there is to grab a WR late bc the talent will be there. We can take 2. Regardless of how this season plays out Shepard is likely gone after 2021 as we’d save $6.5m in 2022 and $9.5m in 2023. If this WR class is as deep as everyone says it is we can take one at 11 and then use a mid rounder as well, hopefully to contribute this year on specials, and get PT as the 5th WR. Just not a fan of ignoring top end players just because the class is deep - that just means teams will be taking WRs over another position, especially in a league that’s pass happy with big contracts being dished out at the position.

That mindset will leave the Giants woefully short at core, foundational pieces of the roster. They need at least one, really two edges. They need a talented player to replace Tomlinson. They could need upgrades at two OG spots plus RT depending on how the incumbents shake out. They’ll need at least one RG/RT to hedge against Hernandez or Peart failing.

The Giants will have WR talent sitting there every round when they’re on the clock. But they’ll also have their pick of any edge in the class at 11 and a top interior OL at 43. The best way to get the most good players is to wait at WR as they simply aren’t going to take a bunch nor should they.

I’m open to anything at 11. Going into it being mad if they do X seems ridiculous to me.

What if Golladay gets banged up? What’s the plan B there? What if the Giants don’t like the WRs on the board in the later rounds more than who’s there at other positions? If Smith is ranked well above the best edge on the board you expect them to pass to fill a need?

In comment 15216391 Red Right Hand said:

Quote:

In comment 15216124 CT Charlie said: Quote: we pick, and Gettleman's job is simply to manage the payroll and cap. I don't think it's true, but Judge doesn't seem like a guy who'd let Gettleman buy all the groceries. I don't think that's possible at all.

Its not his choice. The Giants work by consensus. They always have and Judge was well aware of that when he took the job.

In comment 15216411 UConn4523 said:

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I’m open to anything at 11. Going into it being mad if they do X seems ridiculous to me. What if Golladay gets banged up? What’s the plan B there? What if the Giants don’t like the WRs on the board in the later rounds more than who’s there at other positions? If Smith is ranked well above the best edge on the board you expect them to pass to fill a need?

If Golloday gets banged up then that opens the door for a mid/late rounder to step up. It would also illustrate how stupid it was to give 18 mil per to a guy who gets hurt all the time. But the investment has been made so the expectation needs to be he will play and he will produce.

Yes, I’d take an edge over Smith even if Smith is rated higher. WR is an easy position to fill via the draft or FA. Quality edges are scarce — they’ve been looking to address it for years and they’ve got nothing but washed out mid/late rounders and dumpster diving FAs.

Seems like edge is plan C - my guess is their board looks more like

1) All QBs off their board
2) 1st tier - Sewel, Pitts, Chase
3) 2nd tier - Smith, Waddle
4) 3rd tier - CB/LB/Edge (this tier could be 5 or 6 guys)
5) 4 option - trade down, then CB/LB/Edge

They obviously want to come out of rounds 1 and 2 with a WR/TE playmaker and a CB/LB/Edge playmaker. How they get there is anybody's guess.

My bet is that they are predicting that both tiers 1 and 2 are gone by 11 and are barking about edge now. Will be interesting to see if they make a "small" move up for Smith if the cards start to fall that way by 7-8.

Let's start with the MOST important detail- Lombardo has ZERO idea of inside knowledge of what the Giants are going to do- especially more than 2 weeks out from the draft.

Next important detail- whatever Lombardo does repeat, he has heard from second hand people who are likely speculating based on their own biases towards what any team will do.

Final important detail- its lying season. Even if DG somehow went against every team draft practice and personally called up Lombardo to tell him what the pick would be more than 2 weeks before the draft (which obviously did not happen), would we REALLY expect it to be the truth?

Remember that the draft industry is a group of people who try and read the tea leaves and come up with predictions that will make them look good down the road. Most of their "sources" are media types, not team officials.

With that said, reading the multiple pages of posts on this subject, I again submit my theory on "Confirmation Bias" among fans. My theory is and remains that few if any fans have any real substantive knowledge of player evaluation and fewer yet have the ability to extrapolate current performance to future performance. Instead, they read enough magazines, internet posts, blogs, twitter posts and other media until they convince themselves that player X is the ONLY option for their team.

Then, as the draft grows closer, they see media feedback that confirms their belief and mentally reject all contrarian view- in other words, they become SO emotionally invested in THEIR OWN belief on a player that anything the team does that runs against that belief becomes a PERSONAL rejection of THEM. In turn, they seek answers to justify their belief and position, even if it runs contrary to facts.

We see a LOT of evidence of that in this thread. There are a number of posters who say I'm good with whoever. But we also see many who have seen the team go AGAINST their beliefs for so long that they cannot accept management decisions. Yet another group is their selected position or bust.

The problem, in my opinion (recognizing that this seems to have a lack of self-awareness after all of the above), is that people have bought into the draft pick industry views subconsciously to the point that what they believe is a self-developed opinion is really unconscious confirmation bias. Because they cannot separate the two, their opinion becomes a fixation and will lead to weeks and weeks of complaints, perceived insults, and justifications- which will inevitably lead to draft day disappointment.

My recommendation- let go of any fixed belief about any certain player/position that the Giants may draft. Look "big picture" here. Is this draft about 2021- or is it about obtaining building blocks for success beyond 2021 and proactively addressing future needs?

#11 is just 1 pick. If we aren’t hitting on the picks after that it kinda won’t matter who we take at 11. And edge is scarce which is why none of these guys are locks to go top 10 - they don’t come with that pedigree. I’d rather take the better player than force a pick for need. The defense has been built to de-emphasize the need to force a pick at Edge and just wait for value, IMO.

If they like Paye or whoever than so be it, but I’m certainly not going to be mad if we don’t go that route.

In comment 15216441 UConn4523 said:

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#11 is just 1 pick. If we aren’t hitting on the picks after that it kinda won’t matter who we take at 11. And edge is scarce which is why none of these guys are locks to go top 10 - they don’t come with that pedigree. I’d rather take the better player than force a pick for need. The defense has been built to de-emphasize the need to force a pick at Edge and just wait for value, IMO. If they like Paye or whoever than so be it, but I’m certainly not going to be mad if we don’t go that route.

Uconn, Good points as were those of rich in DC. There are a number of worthy players that will be available at #11(or later if that is the route they choose).
For the first time a a long while, I think this staff will get it right. I think Judge has set a clear vision for what he wants to do. DG knows what Judge wants and needs and will get him those players.

The Giants may very well be leaking names to confuse their intentions, Slater, Smith, Waddle, Paye, Olujari, Surtain, Parsons....even Pitts. All good players that the Giants could use and may be available at 11.

I will enjoy Sy'56s write ups. Sit back read a few BBI mocks and then will probably very happy with whom they chose. What will be interesting is seeing in what direction they go through the draft. Will there be "clusters" will they target an area....this one may be fun.

In comment 15216441 UConn4523 said:

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#11 is just 1 pick. If we aren’t hitting on the picks after that it kinda won’t matter who we take at 11. And edge is scarce which is why none of these guys are locks to go top 10 - they don’t come with that pedigree. I’d rather take the better player than force a pick for need. The defense has been built to de-emphasize the need to force a pick at Edge and just wait for value, IMO. If they like Paye or whoever than so be it, but I’m certainly not going to be mad if we don’t go that route.

They have a pretty lousy track record so odds are they do go Smith and get very little out of the rest of the draft. That doesn’t make it right.

It’s not about need vs BPA, even though BPA is simply a made up construct. It’s about looking at the draft class in whole and attacking it in a way that gives them the best odds at landing the most talent that can impact. The focus needs to be drafting more quality players in the draft than the rest of the league, not what they do at a specific draft slot for one player.

until the draft happens and you have to pivot on the fly. Just “take a WR in the 3rd” doesn’t address the board not matching or the graded players being gone.

I don’t care what we did pre 2020 draft. It’s last year and forward for me and Judge has the pulse of what he wants, IMO. If we got WR at 11 that tells me he’s on board.

elite units on a team (with depth) than try to plug every hole. That’s proven to be an effective way of building a team in the NFL as it really limits what your opposition can do and allows you to exploit teams that are deficient in the same area. We talk a lot about the putrid secondaries of the Cowboys and Eagles - well let’s fucking attack it and attack it hard. Make them reach on players to keep up.

You’ve already seen this on defense. Absolutely stack the secondary to be able to take whatever is thrown at us and soften the blow of injuries. Manufacture a pass rush and jump on an Edge when the opportunity presents itself.

In comment 15216481 UConn4523 said:

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elite units on a team (with depth) than try to plug every hole. That’s proven to be an effective way of building a team in the NFL as it really limits what your opposition can do and allows you to exploit teams that are deficient in the same area. We talk a lot about the putrid secondaries of the Cowboys and Eagles - well let’s fucking attack it and attack it hard. Make them reach on players to keep up. You’ve already seen this on defense. Absolutely stack the secondary to be able to take whatever is thrown at us and soften the blow of injuries. Manufacture a pass rush and jump on an Edge when the opportunity presents itself.

Championships are won on the backs of good play in the trenches. It doesn’t matter how many good WRs you have. That will never change.

The Giants have an opportunity to solidify their OL and DL in this draft with quality talent. That should be the focus but it probably won’t be.

hope you enjoy draft day.

Who still thinks Dave has authority to make personnel moves without input from the Coach? Is it not clear that the Coach is the executive chef in our kitchen? That the GM is, at best, a line cook? DG’s secretary has more authority and discretion on spending org funds than Dave does these days.

IMHO you have a better chance spending the night with Tyra Banks than seeing Gettleman make a roster move that Judge doesn’t sign off on.

In comment 15216478 UConn4523 said:

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until the draft happens and you have to pivot on the fly. Just “take a WR in the 3rd” doesn’t address the board not matching or the graded players being gone. I don’t care what we did pre 2020 draft. It’s last year and forward for me and Judge has the pulse of what he wants, IMO. If we got WR at 11 that tells me he’s on board.

How is Jones (or any other quarterback) going to get the ball to said WRs if he’s knocked on his butt every other play because the offensive line can’t block better than Swiss cheese?

and didn’t, A. Because the OL started out poorly but came on about mid season, B. because Barkley was gone and C. Because the skill positions were dreadful and if Barkley was here.

Again, #11 is just 1 pick. If we can’t strengthen the OL and pass rush outside of spending a first round pick on it than we are in for another change in GM, HC and QB.

I know a lot of posters say the OL came on in the 2nd half of the season. I remember them playing well against a few teams including Wash & Seattle. But, when it came time to win the division, they played badly against Ariz, Cleve and. Baltimore, none of whom have great defenses. They finished strong against a bad Dallas defense.

I find it very hard to believe that the OLine as presently constituted will start the season. And, the line that finished had Ziegler who was better, maybe much better than Hernandez and Lemioux.

and a hurt Jones, keep that in mind too. I’m completely open to continuing to build the lines, but there’s other ways to do that than pick #11.

In comment 15216504 UConn4523 said:

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and didn’t, A. Because the OL started out poorly but came on about mid season, B. because Barkley was gone and C. Because the skill positions were dreadful and if Barkley was here. Again, #11 is just 1 pick. If we can’t strengthen the OL and pass rush outside of spending a first round pick on it than we are in for another change in GM, HC and QB.

Agreed UConn. And I’m not sleeping on the guys we have at edge. We literally have 7 players we can rotate right now at edge. Are those players pro bowlers at this point? No. Will they be? Probably not. But having a steady rotation of high energy young edge rushers is not a problem in my opinion. And we can find a Guard in round 2 or 3.

When I mentioned trading for Smith earlier I am picturing a jump of 5 to 6 places in round 1. What would that cost? #11 obviously, then I would say a 3 this year and a 2 next year would get it done. That would allow us to draft a player like Smith or Chase, draft an edge or Guard at 42. You would still have a high fourth rounder and the two 6th rounders as well.

And would be doing this just to mess with us.

He's got to be hurting his Eagles are in terrible shape

then surprise everyone by picking someone completely different? It wouldn't surprise me if DG did that, although I know Philly wants Smith to be there at 12, I'd love to snag him under their noses, just like when Adoree Jackson signed with the Giants before visiting Philly all together.

In comment 15216174 Giantsfan79 said:

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In comment 15216158 djm said: Quote: In comment 15216127 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15216118 Giantsfan79 said: Quote: of course he couldn't fake interest in someone else or keep it to himself until the draft. He has been unbelievably predictable with the draft. I'd love to play poker against the guy. Of course, Doyle Brunson Gettleman would have you believe he is so dialed in with the rest of the league he knew for "a fact" two other teams would have drafted Jones before the Giants next pick at #17... ;) Nope! Unbelievably predictable? No one said he was picking jokes at six. No one said he was picking Lawrence later in that same round. Some people guessed or predicted thomas last year. Woopee. And yes everyone knew he’d pick Barkley but ok that’s one. Of course the guy is dialed into the league he’s been working in it for 3 decades. Clown post. are you seriously saying you don't think that over the years the Giants have had quite a few draft room leaks (and sometimes it's screwed us because teams have jumped us, and Smith seems like the type of WR a team may jump us for.)

Stop already. Just because some outlets get the first round pick predicted correctly doesn't mean there was a leak. That my friend is comifmration bias at its very best.

Oh wait, I forgot, EVERYONE just knew the Giants were drafting Daniel Jones and Dexter Lawrence. Sure they did. Should we revisit that draft day thread?

Even if there were "leaks"--whatever that means, there is so much misinformation you can't even take any leak or rumor seriously.

Enough already.

are son helt bent on bashing DG, that the latest theory is Judge has swept in and squashed all leaks and squashed any draft day blundering that were all due to DG's failures and any and all personnel wins now are attributed to Judge and judge alone, while DG is just a figure head.

Nope. Sorry. The most likely explanation is there were never really any leaks to begin with, save for maybe 1-2-3 instances (Barkley) and DG was never making all the decisions here. He was never the end all be all voice. Just like it's been here for the last 40 years. The GM works with the HC and the scouts and everyone else and a collaborative decision is made.

Judge has helped the cause. That doesn't mean the Giants have dramatically shifted or changed their entire methodology. Judge knows WTF he's doing where as McAdoo and Shurmur didn't.

Let's not pretend he really smokescreened the Barkley pick.

DG told the world that was his guy. And he told the world they were open to a trade up if the return was good enough. It wasn't. They picked Barkley.

Leaks and all this crap...it's nonsense. And letting the world know what you want isn't always the worst tact to take. How the hell do you trade up or down if you can't tell other teams what you want?

In comment 15215988 eric2425ny said:

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with ATL to get him. I don’t think this team has as many needs as some people think.

Trading up, even if this team doesn't have as many needs as you think, is a bad idea. We're three years removed from the foundation crumbling while DG tried desperately to simultaneously build both the lineup and the pipeline. The starting lineup is close to finished, but the pipeline is still very much a work in progress.

Trading up this year would be a terrible idea, IMO.

In comment 15216008 90.Cal said:

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.

Oh, no!

A team might trade up in front of us to draft a WR in a WR-heavy draft class? And doing so might force another prospect down to us?

Whatever will we do?

In comment 15217497 djm said:

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are son helt bent on bashing DG, that the latest theory is Judge has swept in and squashed all leaks and squashed any draft day blundering that were all due to DG's failures and any and all personnel wins now are attributed to Judge and judge alone, while DG is just a figure head. Nope. Sorry. The most likely explanation is there were never really any leaks to begin with, save for maybe 1-2-3 instances (Barkley) and DG was never making all the decisions here. He was never the end all be all voice. Just like it's been here for the last 40 years. The GM works with the HC and the scouts and everyone else and a collaborative decision is made. Judge has helped the cause. That doesn't mean the Giants have dramatically shifted or changed their entire methodology. Judge knows WTF he's doing where as McAdoo and Shurmur didn't.

Thou dost protest too much in just one little post...

says the guy who can't go one post without protesting everything DG. You sure I am the one protesting too much?

In comment 15218708 djm said:

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says the guy who can't go one post without protesting everything DG. You sure I am the one protesting too much?

I can't imagine why. Especially since your post basically suggests that the GM's office has been running smoothly as it ever has, and the only blip in the team W-L record was having McAdoo/Shurmur as head coaches.

In comment 15216089 Trainmaster said:

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I think Pitts, Chase (didn't like the interview with him just replayed on NFL radio; sounded as dumb as a box of rocks)

Really? I've heard Chase interviews before and though he doesn't speak like he's giving a TED Talk, from a football perspective he gave thoughtful answers to the questions being asked of him

Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
·
11h
Dave Gettleman has made:

55 picks in the NFL draft over
8 drafts as a GM with
2 teams

and

HAS NEVER TRADED DOWN
Link - ( New Window )

If there is one thing I hope Judge brings to the franchise is more flexibility with how they approach the draft. I actually think this year would be a great year to trade down to accumulate more picks. Giants should have multiple players available, it makes even more sense if they are leaning EDGE.

Beyond Gettleman, the Giants haven’t traded down in the first round since 2006 when they moved down for Sinorice Moss.

In comment 15223700 Go Terps said:

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Warren Sharp @SharpFootball · 11h Dave Gettleman has made: 55 picks in the NFL draft over 8 drafts as a GM with 2 teams and HAS NEVER TRADED DOWN Link - ( New Window )

We have a lazy and unimaginative person for a GM.

In comment 15223711 Producer said:

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In comment 15223700 Go Terps said: Quote: Warren Sharp @SharpFootball · 11h Dave Gettleman has made: 55 picks in the NFL draft over 8 drafts as a GM with 2 teams and HAS NEVER TRADED DOWN Link - ( New Window ) We have a lazy and unimaginative person for a GM.

What a lazy and unimaginative post. You pay your college scouts handsomely for this. When they tell you a player available is by far better than anyone else on the board are you supposed to trade down and risk losing that player when the picks you will get are, in the opinions of your scouts, not enough to make up the difference? Gettleman may have the final say, but he doesn’t operate in a vacuum like Kevin Costner. Does that mean that I agree with the calls? No. I think there was one offer on what ended up being Barkley pick that he probably should have used more time getting to an acceptable level, but I was not there so I can’t say whether it was merely good starting offer and never anything more. The one thing about Gettleman is that he does not throw his scouts under the bus. Notice we have never found out who was really pushing Baker. That makes me wonder if some of his effusive language is real vs. taking heat off of the scouts.