Those two first round picks (2021 and 2023, neither one a lottery), the Knicks got from the Mavs had better yield something because this Knicks fan never liked the trade and still doesn't - although Barrett is going to be special and maybe the Knicks don't draft him if they had KP.
Porzingis 31 points vs Spurs - (
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It’s a shame, it’s exhibit A of the failure of the Jax years. I’m with you, I’m just happy the Knicks have a better vibe, better coach, and good young players worth getting excited about again now
He didn't want to be here and he forced a trade. That's the bottom line. They got what they thought was a good deal for him, and cleared cap space (which we used to sign Randle). I've moved on. Hopefully they can get a 3rd star and we can pick it up next year.
I liked KP when he was here, but he pretty much went scorched earth on the way out the door. Eff him and his idiot brother entourage.
KP is what he is i think. If he can put together a season where he plays 75 games he might make an all star team or two. But he has never showed he will be able to stay healthy and productive for a full season. I would not even consider trading Randle for him.
PS they lost the game. Weird thread.
He didn't want to be here and he forced a trade. That's the bottom line. They got what they thought was a good deal for him, and cleared cap space (which we used to sign Randle). I've moved on. Hopefully they can get a 3rd star and we can pick it up next year.
Knicks are in a great position going forward. Tons of draft assets, young talent and cap room. Now they need to make sure they get the right guy(s).
Randle alone probably makes the Knicks the actual winners here but once you include IQ and the two firsts to come it might actually not be that close.
Porzingis is a great player when healthy. He's going to have plenty of 30 point games. It looked like an awful trade at the time but looking back -- and this is based on more luck than screwed decision making -- but the Knicks were probably better off making the deal.
- Wasn't a bad idea to trade him before the max contract.
- The return for him was not good and could have been a lot more if they timed it better and not insisted on dumping contracts with him.
- Boston offered the 2017 3rd overall pick ( who turned into Tatum), a young player and another lottery pick.
- He's a good player that hasn't progressed much the past few years. He seems to have lost a little athleticism post ACL.
- He can still grow as a player- he's 25 years old.
- He will most likely always big an injury risk.
- Wasn't a bad idea to trade him before the max contract.
- The return for him was not good and could have been a lot more if they timed it better and not insisted on dumping contracts with him.
- Boston offered the 2017 3rd overall pick ( who turned into Tatum), a young player and another lottery pick.
- He's a good player that hasn't progressed much the past few years. He seems to have lost a little athleticism post ACL.
- He can still grow as a player- he's 25 years old.
- He will most likely always big an injury risk.
Well said
He is not leader / carry the team guy.
Plus the injuries will always be there not too many players with his build stay healthy.
I for one hope he plays well and understand he was never a fit here and both are better with him elsewhere.
He makes big money now. He's on a max contract which overshadows KP the player when healthy (and on his game). As good as Luka is, it's going to be really hard to field a contender with KP taking up $30M of your cap space. He usually misses at least 25% of the games in a season and another 25% or so are wasted with him trying to get back into game shape and get in rhythm.
I don't know how any Knicks fan who follows the NBA closely could say that they wish we still had KP. A better trade return? Sure, I buy that but the player on a max deal? No way.
- Wasn't a bad idea to trade him before the max contract.
- The return for him was not good and could have been a lot more if they timed it better and not insisted on dumping contracts with him.
- Boston offered the 2017 3rd overall pick ( who turned into Tatum), a young player and another lottery pick.
- He's a good player that hasn't progressed much the past few years. He seems to have lost a little athleticism post ACL.
- He can still grow as a player- he's 25 years old.
- He will most likely always big an injury risk.
The Boston offer though is one of those hindsight is 20/20 things. KP was going into his third year and played 72 and 66 games in the previous two years, the two most in his career. He had taken a pretty big leap forward from year 1 to year 2 and it seemed like the sky was the limit.
At the same time, they would have drafted Josh Jackson, not Tatum and it's not like Tatum was considered a vastly superior prospect to Jackson either. Similarly, Phoenix offered Booker and Phil wanted Booker + the 4th pick. At the time, I thought KP was the better asset than Booker as did most but again Booker continued to improve (and has stayed healthy) while KP has not.
not when they're still on their rookie contract.
What keeps me sane is how the Knicks handled things since trading KP away. They signed Randle and Morris and turned Morris into Quickley. There's no guarantee we have either player here today if KP isn't dealt. Matter of fact the odds are the probably don't have either player.
Knicks were at the peak of their shit showness when KP and his stupid brother went scorched earth. Where the Knicks fucked up is the year or two prior to KP talking shit.
It's done. Nothing we can do now. Just glad we have a better player in Randle, and yes, he's better.
- Wasn't a bad idea to trade him before the max contract.
- The return for him was not good and could have been a lot more if they timed it better and not insisted on dumping contracts with him.
- Boston offered the 2017 3rd overall pick ( who turned into Tatum), a young player and another lottery pick.
- He's a good player that hasn't progressed much the past few years. He seems to have lost a little athleticism post ACL.
- He can still grow as a player- he's 25 years old.
- He will most likely always big an injury risk.
agree with most of this. For me, it comes down to whether or not you can live with the injury risk on this first max contract. Given his unique skills for a big man, I think it was worth risk at the time and continues to be worth the risk.
But other than that I agree with your take.
As for the rookie contract part, I just saw a reddit thread where people pointed out that players going back to Wilkins, Kobe, Marbury, Webber, and Steve Francis have forced trades while still on rookies deals.
IMO, people are putting too much of this on the Knicks and not enough on KP and Jackson who poisoned the well in the first place/
As for the rookie contract part, I just saw a reddit thread where people pointed out that players going back to Wilkins, Kobe, Marbury, Webber, and Steve Francis have forced trades while still on rookies deals.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Those players were under different CBAs where they were much closer to unrestricted free agency. The rules were changed so that the team that drafts a player has all kinds of advantages when keeping them on a second contract. Do you have any recent examples? Don't bother looking...there aren't any. Only the Knicks could completely fuck up a situation where they had all the leverage.
As for the rookie contract part, I just saw a reddit thread where people pointed out that players going back to Wilkins, Kobe, Marbury, Webber, and Steve Francis have forced trades while still on rookies deals.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Those players were under different CBAs where they were much closer to unrestricted free agency. The rules were changed so that the team that drafts a player has all kinds of advantages when keeping them on a second contract. Do you have any recent examples? Don't bother looking...there aren't any. Only the Knicks could completely fuck up a situation where they had all the leverage.
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And he’s going to eventually want big money. Trading him had to be done then as he did not want to be here anymore. Don’t let one good game fool you.
He makes big money now. He's on a max contract which overshadows KP the player when healthy (and on his game). As good as Luka is, it's going to be really hard to field a contender with KP taking up $30M of your cap space. He usually misses at least 25% of the games in a season and another 25% or so are wasted with him trying to get back into game shape and get in rhythm.
I don't know how any Knicks fan who follows the NBA closely could say that they wish we still had KP. A better trade return? Sure, I buy that but the player on a max deal? No way.
I mean in 3 years, he’s gonna still want big money to play 40 games a year if that? Plus if you’re the Mavs, as you correctly point out, how do you build around Doncic when you’re locked into KP as his Robin for at least 3 seasons? Then when 2024 rolls around, do you re-up with 28 year old KP who is not going to age well.
Quote:
And he’s going to eventually want big money. Trading him had to be done then as he did not want to be here anymore. Don’t let one good game fool you.
He makes big money now. He's on a max contract which overshadows KP the player when healthy (and on his game). As good as Luka is, it's going to be really hard to field a contender with KP taking up $30M of your cap space. He usually misses at least 25% of the games in a season and another 25% or so are wasted with him trying to get back into game shape and get in rhythm.
I don't know how any Knicks fan who follows the NBA closely could say that they wish we still had KP. A better trade return? Sure, I buy that but the player on a max deal? No way.
I mean in 3 years, he’s gonna still want big money to play 40 games a year if that? Plus if you’re the Mavs, as you correctly point out, how do you build around Doncic when you’re locked into KP as his Robin for at least 3 seasons? Then when 2024 rolls around, do you re-up with 28 year old KP who is not going to age well.