- Jordan Raanan says the Giants have done extensive work on Georgia EDGE, Azeez Ojulari.
- Jordan Raanan spoke to a bunch of sources who unanimously said Chase, Pitts & Sewell are lock Top 10 Picks that won't be available to the Giants at #11.
- Jordan Raanan says the 2 pass rushers that peak the Giants interest the most at #11 are Azeez Ojulari & Kwity Paye.
- Jordan Raanan believe it makes all the sense in the world this year more than most to trade back into the late teens and draft a pass rusher in the 1st Round.
- If Patrick Surtain is there at #11, that is a name that intrigues the Giants, per Jordan Raanan
- Jordan Raanan said that he would be surprised if the Giants select Micah Parsons
Info copied from @letstalkbigblue on IG - (
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tells you he's pretty close to washing off the team, rather than a promotion to OG. C might be his best shot to stick, and even then he's replaceable. Don't overrate your own.
That's an opinion I haven't seen before. I never considered that Gates going to C was a last resort kind of move. I thought he played really well last year. Couldn't imagine they're anything less than pleased with the results of that experiment.
Agreed. He was a VERY pleasant surprise. His mean streak was not misplaced, it was totally focused on the task he was given. The Staff appeared to like his tough, take no prisoners attitude, be it C or anywhere else he was placed. Kind of reminds me of a Seubert or Deihl..I doubt it was perform well at C or bye bye..He is one player I feel secure with on the OL (Thomas seemed to come on nicely)..
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In comment 15217698 JonC said:
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tells you he's pretty close to washing off the team, rather than a promotion to OG. C might be his best shot to stick, and even then he's replaceable. Don't overrate your own.
From Zeirlein on Gates, which is kind of what I see with him. I believe his feet are better than you are giving him credit for. And they are certainly better than Lemiuex's.
Good foot quickness
Able to gain necessary ground in his first two kick-slides when he gets out of the blocks on time
Has extremely impressive mirror talent
Seamless ability to change direction without a stall
Catches inside moves and rides them into the line of scrimmage from left tackle spot
Adequate punch timing
Hands are strong and can lock into targets once he lands
Plays with balance as run blocker
Has move blocking ability
Adjusts to second-level movement NFL.com Gates scouting report - ( New Window )
I'm going by what I see in the NFL. He's got the right attitude, hopefully he continues to improve. I just wouldn't make any decisions by handing Gates a job. Keep getting better, never stop.
Not against this approach in the least Jon. But knowing a bit about how the Giants operate I think they want to give these guys the best chance to stick. OC may be a pretty good spot for Shane. Shane's feet are NOT good for any other position. LG maybe but he'll still be below average as a pass pro guy IMO. Gates on the other hand , my perspective is he can give us something pretty good at RG with his footwork/coordination especially in a ZBS vs power gap scheme. Fulton is not a guy you want starting if you can help it. Murphy is an unknown but I've heard some good things.
Sure we want to get better but it sure seems like we aren't going OL round 1 (save perhaps the unlikely of Sewell dropping) and robably not even round 2 if we haven't got the EDGE by then. Gates at RG, Lemiuex at C could in theory give us guys that won't embarrass themselves at either position leaving just one spot potentially (LG) that needs an upgrade. In the top 2 rounds the Tackles or the guys with good tackle versatility will probably be going first leaving some pretty strong OG options in round 3 potentially.
Doubt it. Someone’s going to take a shot on him in round 1. Maybe Miami or the Titans.
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In comment 15217698 JonC said:
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tells you he's pretty close to washing off the team, rather than a promotion to OG. C might be his best shot to stick, and even then he's replaceable. Don't overrate your own.
That's an opinion I haven't seen before. I never considered that Gates going to C was a last resort kind of move. I thought he played really well last year. Couldn't imagine they're anything less than pleased with the results of that experiment.
Agreed. He was a VERY pleasant surprise. His mean streak was not misplaced, it was totally focused on the task he was given. The Staff appeared to like his tough, take no prisoners attitude, be it C or anywhere else he was placed. Kind of reminds me of a Seubert or Deihl..I doubt it was perform well at C or bye bye..He is one player I feel secure with on the OL (Thomas seemed to come on nicely)..
Perform well or sit on the bench for that season. Thomas is the one potential building block they have, and even he has his warts from college that showed up in games last season. I hate to say it, but their OL rebuild still needs a lot of parts. It's just unlikely to arrive at #11, imv.
Wow...all-time easy to root for guy.
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In comment 15217718 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 15217698 JonC said:
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tells you he's pretty close to washing off the team, rather than a promotion to OG. C might be his best shot to stick, and even then he's replaceable. Don't overrate your own.
That's an opinion I haven't seen before. I never considered that Gates going to C was a last resort kind of move. I thought he played really well last year. Couldn't imagine they're anything less than pleased with the results of that experiment.
Agreed. He was a VERY pleasant surprise. His mean streak was not misplaced, it was totally focused on the task he was given. The Staff appeared to like his tough, take no prisoners attitude, be it C or anywhere else he was placed. Kind of reminds me of a Seubert or Deihl..I doubt it was perform well at C or bye bye..He is one player I feel secure with on the OL (Thomas seemed to come on nicely)..
Perform well or sit on the bench for that season. Thomas is the one potential building block they have, and even he has his warts from college that showed up in games last season. I hate to say it, but their OL rebuild still needs a lot of parts. It's just unlikely to arrive at #11, imv.
Would Paye be worthy of the 11th pick, iyo? Perhaps your answer would depend on who’s sitting there, but “worthy-wise,” what say you?
If he's their guy at #11, and then add a WR at #42, CB or OG at #74, you've got a good start on paper.
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In comment 15217718 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 15217698 JonC said:
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tells you he's pretty close to washing off the team, rather than a promotion to OG. C might be his best shot to stick, and even then he's replaceable. Don't overrate your own.
That's an opinion I haven't seen before. I never considered that Gates going to C was a last resort kind of move. I thought he played really well last year. Couldn't imagine they're anything less than pleased with the results of that experiment.
Agreed. He was a VERY pleasant surprise. His mean streak was not misplaced, it was totally focused on the task he was given. The Staff appeared to like his tough, take no prisoners attitude, be it C or anywhere else he was placed. Kind of reminds me of a Seubert or Deihl..I doubt it was perform well at C or bye bye..He is one player I feel secure with on the OL (Thomas seemed to come on nicely)..
Perform well or sit on the bench for that season. Thomas is the one potential building block they have, and even he has his warts from college that showed up in games last season. I hate to say it, but their OL rebuild still needs a lot of parts. It's just unlikely to arrive at #11, imv.
Tough to swallow with all the resources DG has already put into this line. Not sure how anyone inside the building can be pleased with this continuous issue still not solved.
Thanks for the nuggets, JonC.
He led the team in sacks, tackles for loss, QB hits, and was 5th in total tackles.
Are you sure you identified the right player?
As best I can tell, Phillips' name was never publicly associated with the word "concussion" until the day in October 2018 when Chip Kelly announced he had suffered one and was done for his soph year.
In December 2018 came the announcement of the medical retirement. In reporting on the retirement, the LA Times said Phillips had also suffered a concussion in 2017 but didn't suggest a source for its information.
The Times' reporting of two concussions was repeated by other outlets. Then the number of concussions became three, then four, and then a report that Phillips had suffered one at ten years old.
In none of these reports is there a reference to a source, even one that can't be revealed. The authors simply assert their alleged knowledge of Phillips' medical history as a matter of fact.
It makes sense that Phillips suffered more than one concussion given that UCLA encouraged the medical retirement but the impression I get from the reporting is of people pretending to a certainty of knowledge that cannot be reliably backed up.
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Could Phillips drop to the Giants in the second round?
Doubt it. Someone’s going to take a shot on him in round 1. Maybe Miami or the Titans.
Those savages!
I dont see it possible as he tested off the charts. I also dont know what kind of effect the concussions will have on a DE going forward. So I havent considered it.
Smith at 11 and Philips at 42???? I wont even consider the possibility.
the thought is if he didn't have the concussion history he would be a lock top 10 maybe even a top 5 talent in this draft at a premium position. He is the one guy that projects to be an all-pro level talent at that position. There are other quality guys but no one with his arsenal.
The injuries are a concern but Paye seems way to mechanical for my liking. Like he will be good but I see a limited upside. Thats tough to pick that high. But I get people being concerned with concussion too. But the talent of Phillips outweighs the low ceiling for Paye for me.
If his medical history makes him too big a risk at 11, he's just as big a risk at 42. We can't afford to throw away a Day 1 or Day 2 pick. If we had extra picks, maybe you roll the dice earlier on a guy with his ability.
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but with his concussion history, why even go there?
If his medical history makes him too big a risk at 11, he's just as big a risk at 42. We can't afford to throw away a Day 1 or Day 2 pick. If we had extra picks, maybe you roll the dice earlier on a guy with his ability.
Yup, that’s my thinking
I'm not saying there's no risk but every player carries some level of risk. There was nothing in Andrew Luck's history that would have led you to believe he'd get as beat up as he did to the point he'd retire early. Also nothing about Frank Gores 3 major knee surgeries that would have thought it possible for him to still be playing at age 37. The biggest knock on AP was his injuries at OU and he's had an extremely durable career. You need to weight risk appropriately but also counter weight it against unpredictability.
Rapoport. - ( New Window )
Whether he got sick or not, major red flag. This guy sounds like he is dodging evals, lookingfor that rookie 1st round deal and down-sh9ft after that.
This might be my only remote thrower in the draft.
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In comment 15217824 Big Blue '56 said:
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but with his concussion history, why even go there?
If his medical history makes him too big a risk at 11, he's just as big a risk at 42. We can't afford to throw away a Day 1 or Day 2 pick. If we had extra picks, maybe you roll the dice earlier on a guy with his ability.
Yup, that’s my thinking
If he is there in the 4th round, I would give it serious consideration. And thats a stretch.
shyster, HIPAA makes that the nature of the beast. No one is going to have access to his medical records without his consent, and those to whom he grants consent are themselves bound by confidentiality. So, the NFL draft world is left to divine by inference or unofficial leaks. Of course, he could release these and dispel all that misinformation out there, but that doesn't appear to be happening, at least not yet.
That would be my point: the information is nominally behind a wall and I cannot find one report claiming to be sourced in a breach in the wall, which leaves no trail to follow to the reliability of the reporting.
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In comment 15217698 JonC said:
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tells you he's pretty close to washing off the team, rather than a promotion to OG. C might be his best shot to stick, and even then he's replaceable. Don't overrate your own.
That's an opinion I haven't seen before. I never considered that Gates going to C was a last resort kind of move. I thought he played really well last year. Couldn't imagine they're anything less than pleased with the results of that experiment.
Tackles kick inside to guard, but rarely to center. I'm sure they're pleased, but not a player to rest on laurels with.
After his first year I thought Justin Pugh's best spot would've been Center end then we went and drafted Richburg. Both guys were too small and light to play Guard and we know that Pugh didn't have the length, feet, or technique to play Tackle effectively. Both guys missed too much game time with minor injuries.
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Could he have been miscast before this and Center was always where he belonged?
Going from OT to C is an unusual switch, especially at the NFL level. Can't think of another time it's happened off the top of my head.
Only ones I can think of were both Giants: Adam Koets and Chris Bober.
Kwity Paye might also be a solid pick, but I think he's a Kiwanuka clone, and career trajectory could be very similar. Not bad, but also not remarkable.
I thought of that too, but Kiwi was trying to fit in a 4-3. Graham’s defense makes tweeners an advantage.
Well then you know enough... ;)
Definitely a talented player, but the risk seems way too great for a high investment. I like Caleb Farley quite a bit as a corner prospect, but he's had two back surgeries (one last month) and I wouldn't touch him now until the second round.
Only ones I can think of were both Giants: Adam Koets and Chris Bober.
I think Waddle will be there and be the pick.
the EDGE guys have serious questions marks. all of them. so DON'T DRAFT THEM. draft into the strength of this draft (WR, OL, CB).
there are VERY good OL prospects in this draft. Tucker would be great on this line as would Tevin Jenkins. hell if they want to trade back and then trade up into the first round they might be able to get them BOTH. how great would this line look with two stud OGs?
draft Smith is he's there at 11 or waddle. both are going to be superstars. then grab 2 OL and a CB with your next picks and you're in business.
forcing an EDGE pick in this draft is so stupid and short sighted (so it sounds exactly like that the giants will do).
and i hate to break it to people. i don't think the giants are going to be very good. i get it, they played lots of close games last year and they got better. but i look at this team. bad offensive coordinator, bad qb, and bad offensive line. that does not sound like a recipe for success. and all i hear about now is them wanting to plug a need with their first pick in a bad EDGE class. that's why and how bad teams stay bad.
But the UGA connection, long arms, and scheme fit...this guys screams Giants pick.
Ya’ think?
Nevertheless, I am all for an interior C/G type to be drafted Day 2 or early Day 3...
the EDGE guys have serious questions marks. all of them. so DON'T DRAFT THEM. draft into the strength of this draft (WR, OL, CB).
there are VERY good OL prospects in this draft. Tucker would be great on this line as would Tevin Jenkins. hell if they want to trade back and then trade up into the first round they might be able to get them BOTH. how great would this line look with two stud OGs?
draft Smith is he's there at 11 or waddle. both are going to be superstars. then grab 2 OL and a CB with your next picks and you're in business.
forcing an EDGE pick in this draft is so stupid and short sighted (so it sounds exactly like that the giants will do).
and i hate to break it to people. i don't think the giants are going to be very good. i get it, they played lots of close games last year and they got better. but i look at this team. bad offensive coordinator, bad qb, and bad offensive line. that does not sound like a recipe for success. and all i hear about now is them wanting to plug a need with their first pick in a bad EDGE class. that's why and how bad teams stay bad.
So you’re fine with the below-average and removing Carter and Ximines failing to get after the quarterback and the quarterback picking us apart if Williams and Lawrence are too slow to reach him?
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they are talking about drafting an EDGE due to need. but this team has so many needs. LG, RG, RT, WR, CB, EDGE, ILB, TE, RB, and we can debate this or not but also QB. the key to this draft shouldn't be getting an EDGE player. it should be drafting good players.
the EDGE guys have serious questions marks. all of them. so DON'T DRAFT THEM. draft into the strength of this draft (WR, OL, CB).
there are VERY good OL prospects in this draft. Tucker would be great on this line as would Tevin Jenkins. hell if they want to trade back and then trade up into the first round they might be able to get them BOTH. how great would this line look with two stud OGs?
draft Smith is he's there at 11 or waddle. both are going to be superstars. then grab 2 OL and a CB with your next picks and you're in business.
forcing an EDGE pick in this draft is so stupid and short sighted (so it sounds exactly like that the giants will do).
and i hate to break it to people. i don't think the giants are going to be very good. i get it, they played lots of close games last year and they got better. but i look at this team. bad offensive coordinator, bad qb, and bad offensive line. that does not sound like a recipe for success. and all i hear about now is them wanting to plug a need with their first pick in a bad EDGE class. that's why and how bad teams stay bad.
So you’re fine with the below-average and recovering Carter and Ximines failing to get after the quarterback and the quarterback picking us apart if Williams and Lawrence are too slow to reach him?
Ya’ think?
Nevertheless, I am all for an interior C/G type to be drafted Day 2 or early Day 3...
Yes he played well there but if you look at the things said about him in scouting reports and the coaching staff they say they believe he can play many spots on the line. Judge values versatility and has preached it more than most former coaches. Gates feet are clearly better than Lemieux's. Lemieux had a 32.2 grade from PFF last year at OG. One of the worst grades in the entire NFL.
Skinner's reports also show a guy with a lot of nice skill you want but his feet are just not mobile enough at OG. Lemieux practiced OC last year and it may be his only good position to maximize his strength and minimize his lack of foot speed being exposed.
I don't think it's Ojulari at #11, too early for him.
He struggled early, but was at a Pro Bowl level by midseason. It was extraordinary. Big and tough, but with surprising athleticism.
I do like his versatility and actually think that may be his strength and most valuable attribute to the Giants. But they would be best served to add another skilled body to the Center position in this draft. Especially if any free agent talent has dried up.
I'm not saying there's no risk but every player carries some level of risk. There was nothing in Andrew Luck's history that would have led you to believe he'd get as beat up as he did to the point he'd retire early. Also nothing about Frank Gores 3 major knee surgeries that would have thought it possible for him to still be playing at age 37. The biggest knock on AP was his injuries at OU and he's had an extremely durable career. You need to weight risk appropriately but also counter weight it against unpredictability.
You make some good points here concerning risk, but while weighing the risk, it's not like anyone views Phillips as a generational talent. Of course that could be wrong three years down the road, but this isn't a Khalil Mack, aaron donald type of prospect we're talking about. It's a good pass rusher in a weak crop. That has to factor in when talking about taking a chance on a guy who had to change schools to get cleared to play football again.
Add in the fact that the Giants were somewhat gunshy to go Edge when given the opportunity in the last few drafts (and free agency for that matter), that it just may not match their comfort zone as to positional risk.
Hopefully they don't reach here.
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they are talking about drafting an EDGE due to need. but this team has so many needs. LG, RG, RT, WR, CB, EDGE, ILB, TE, RB, and we can debate this or not but also QB. the key to this draft shouldn't be getting an EDGE player. it should be drafting good players.
the EDGE guys have serious questions marks. all of them. so DON'T DRAFT THEM. draft into the strength of this draft (WR, OL, CB).
there are VERY good OL prospects in this draft. Tucker would be great on this line as would Tevin Jenkins. hell if they want to trade back and then trade up into the first round they might be able to get them BOTH. how great would this line look with two stud OGs?
draft Smith is he's there at 11 or waddle. both are going to be superstars. then grab 2 OL and a CB with your next picks and you're in business.
forcing an EDGE pick in this draft is so stupid and short sighted (so it sounds exactly like that the giants will do).
and i hate to break it to people. i don't think the giants are going to be very good. i get it, they played lots of close games last year and they got better. but i look at this team. bad offensive coordinator, bad qb, and bad offensive line. that does not sound like a recipe for success. and all i hear about now is them wanting to plug a need with their first pick in a bad EDGE class. that's why and how bad teams stay bad.
So you’re fine with the below-average and removing Carter and Ximines failing to get after the quarterback and the quarterback picking us apart if Williams and Lawrence are too slow to reach him?
so you're fine with below average guards protecting jones allowing pressure right up the middle? or below average guards who cant block well for barkley? you're fine with an always hurt shep and unproven slayton as WR 2 and WR 3?
we can play that game all day. this team is going to have holes even after this draft. so don't force a bad pick when there are better options at other areas of need. this is not rocket science.