There are so many dots that are connecting with this guy being the pick in round 1. Whether that's at 11 or after a trade down, I'm not sure.
1. Giants need an EDGE rusher
2. UGA Connection
3. Ideal scheme fit
4. Long arms (Giants favorite trait)
5. Chris Petit was front and center at Pro Day
6. 0 off the field concerns
7. Age- Giants seem to prefer younger players in round 1 as opposed to 5th year seniors (Thomas, Barkley, Lawrence all true Juniors- Jones was a RS Junior) Ojulari = RS Sophomore
I think the Waddle/Smith talk is a smoke screen. WR in round 1 seems doubtful after paying Golladay WR1 money. I think WR is addressed on Day 2 or 3.
Slater- likely gone but don't think the Giants are too into him anyway. They seem to want a true, power guard. Slater is a finesse tackle that people lazily slot to guard due to his arm length. They'll wait till day 2 for a RG.
Parsons- think the Giants like him but like Ojulari more. Ojulari is cleaner off the field, plays a position of value.
Just my opinion on what I think will happen here. Not saying I'm for or against it, I do like Ojulari but would have a hard time seeing him as BPA in this spot.
You can name the top 6 picks you think will be available at 11 and do the same exercise.
All the " tea leaf " reading is nice to try and figure out.. but they will go with their draft board.
I personally think Parsons is the better player now and will only get better. We need more speed with our front 7.
We know DG was after Leonard Floyd and so we know they are looking at edge. Ojulari may remind them of Floyd, except he is 4 inches shorter.
You can name the top 6 picks you think will be available at 11 and do the same exercise.
Surtain won't be there when they pick.
Smith I just can't see it happening. Do they like him and think he's a good kid and good player? Sure. But doubt they run to the podium to pick a 170lb receiver after spending $40milgtd on KG. Hope I'm wrong though because I like Smith.
All the " tea leaf " reading is nice to try and figure out.. but they will go with their draft board.
How do you know Smith/Waddle are ahead of Ojulari on the Giants board?
Positional value definitely factors into "the board". Receivers are much easier to find on day 2, day 3 than EDGE guys. Ojulari could very well be top 10 on Giants board, ahead of Smith, Waddle, Parsons etc. He checks all of their boxes..I didn't even mention that he was voted a captain on UGA as a RS Freshman.
But something in my gut tells me this is happening.
As an FYI...
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the Giants are going to stick to their board. They are drafting players not positions. If Smith or Waddle are significantly higher ranked than Ojulari ( and they should be ) thats where they are going if they are available.
All the " tea leaf " reading is nice to try and figure out.. but they will go with their draft board.
How do you know Smith/Waddle are ahead of Ojulari on the Giants board?
Positional value definitely factors into "the board". Receivers are much easier to find on day 2, day 3 than EDGE guys. Ojulari could very well be top 10 on Giants board, ahead of Smith, Waddle, Parsons etc. He checks all of their boxes..I didn't even mention that he was voted a captain on UGA as a RS Freshman.
Kwity Paye will be higher on the board than Olujari, IMHO. Paye is versatile, bigger and stronger can set the edge and with proper coaching can get after the QB more, he has the talent. I believe he is also a 3 down player.
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In comment 15218201 blueblood said:
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the Giants are going to stick to their board. They are drafting players not positions. If Smith or Waddle are significantly higher ranked than Ojulari ( and they should be ) thats where they are going if they are available.
All the " tea leaf " reading is nice to try and figure out.. but they will go with their draft board.
How do you know Smith/Waddle are ahead of Ojulari on the Giants board?
Positional value definitely factors into "the board". Receivers are much easier to find on day 2, day 3 than EDGE guys. Ojulari could very well be top 10 on Giants board, ahead of Smith, Waddle, Parsons etc. He checks all of their boxes..I didn't even mention that he was voted a captain on UGA as a RS Freshman.
Kwity Paye will be higher on the board than Olujari, IMHO. Paye is versatile, bigger and stronger can set the edge and with proper coaching can get after the QB more, he has the talent. I believe he is also a 3 down player.
Plus, JonC dropped a very thickly veiled nugget regarding the Giants favoring Paye earlier.
I am a fan of either. Those poo pooing Paye's stats are also ignoring his versatility.
How do you know Smith/Waddle are ahead of Ojulari on the Giants board?
Positional value definitely factors into "the board". Receivers are much easier to find on day 2, day 3 than EDGE guys. Ojulari could very well be top 10 on Giants board, ahead of Smith, Waddle, Parsons etc. He checks all of their boxes..I didn't even mention that he was voted a captain on UGA as a RS Freshman.
Very smart point about receivers being in abundant supply. This year in particular. There may be receivers this year with first round grades in the second round, and second round grades in the third and fourth rounds.
I have been on Ojulari for a while, but it's a hard case for him a #11 when it's probably a safe bet he's there in the late teens/early twenties. So taking him at #11 is a stretch. Plus, I think Graham graduated with honors from Belichick U where you are taught to manufacture pressure with scheme with many good parts versus pressure from a big named stud.
Just anybody but Paye at this point for me. The thought of taking an edge guy who really can't finish is miserable.
Really? I dont see that at all. Oju is stout against the run and uses length/leverage to win. Osi was quick. Both have good hands though.
Can we get a comparison between him and Paye? Because it is looking like Paye is the darling right now.
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How do you know Smith/Waddle are ahead of Ojulari on the Giants board?
Positional value definitely factors into "the board". Receivers are much easier to find on day 2, day 3 than EDGE guys. Ojulari could very well be top 10 on Giants board, ahead of Smith, Waddle, Parsons etc. He checks all of their boxes..I didn't even mention that he was voted a captain on UGA as a RS Freshman.
Very smart point about receivers being in abundant supply. This year in particular. There may be receivers this year with first round grades in the second round, and second round grades in the third and fourth rounds.
I have been on Ojulari for a while, but it's a hard case for him a #11 when it's probably a safe bet he's there in the late teens/early twenties. So taking him at #11 is a stretch. Plus, I think Graham graduated with honors from Belichick U where you are taught to manufacture pressure with scheme with many good parts versus pressure from a big named stud.
Just anybody but Paye at this point for me. The thought of taking an edge guy who really can't finish is miserable.
Well from hints being bandied about, you might have a new topic to bitch about RE Gettleman. Lol. Oh man.
I tend to agree. But there is a lot of Paye smoke being wafted.
But something in my gut tells me this is happening.
I think what you gut is telling you is that you've smoked too much weed my friend.
Seek rehab.
Paye, who I don’t like either at 11, is light years better with more potential. Paye shows bend. Ankle flexibility. Hand punch. Power. Burst. All he needs to do is refine his pass rush skills and actually play on the edge. Not interior like Michigan played him.
The WR talk isn’t smoke screen. Shep will be cut likely after this season. Getting a cost controlled stud in round 1 to pair with Kenny G for the next 3 years is a very solid move. I can get behind a WR or OL at 11. Nothing else seems to have value. Only edge I’d take at 11 is Phillips. And stop telling me about concussions. We extended Shep who had a massive concussion history. If Phillips wants to play which clearly he does it worries me much much less. He’s the best edge in the class and it’s not close if you watch the tape.
I dunno about that.
Stats are deceptive, but I think there should be a little more production from a guy going at 11.
There must have been a few games last season where he maybe didn't do so much?
I think both are fits for this defense but Paye may be more of the LW type player and Ojulari can be that pure rush edge we are missing.
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How do you know Smith/Waddle are ahead of Ojulari on the Giants board?
Positional value definitely factors into "the board". Receivers are much easier to find on day 2, day 3 than EDGE guys. Ojulari could very well be top 10 on Giants board, ahead of Smith, Waddle, Parsons etc. He checks all of their boxes..I didn't even mention that he was voted a captain on UGA as a RS Freshman.
Very smart point about receivers being in abundant supply. This year in particular. There may be receivers this year with first round grades in the second round, and second round grades in the third and fourth rounds.
I have been on Ojulari for a while, but it's a hard case for him a #11 when it's probably a safe bet he's there in the late teens/early twenties. So taking him at #11 is a stretch. Plus, I think Graham graduated with honors from Belichick U where you are taught to manufacture pressure with scheme with many good parts versus pressure from a big named stud.
Just anybody but Paye at this point for me. The thought of taking an edge guy who really can't finish is miserable.
I think in this draft, an edge is an edge is an edge but any old WR, no matter that the draft is deep is not the same as the top 3.
I don't really get the oft-said philosophy that because a particular position is deep an a draft, you should sacrifice a star for an okay-good player at that position.
Just anybody but Paye at this point for me. The thought of taking an edge guy who really can't finish is miserable.
Devils advocate only - who says he cannot finish(?), stats from college? He was asked to play all over the place and it appears pass rush was not a first responsibility. Like you, I do not want another OV, but I also want the bigger stouter edge setter who can also get after the QB. I am also not in favor of getting someone just because they MAY be a pass rush threat. There will be those later in the draft, too.
I am more in favor of WR or CB at #11, but would not mind a trade back for an extra 2nd and then use #15-20 on an ER if Smith, Waddle Surtain or Horn are not there.
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He. He is all the boxes. I’d be very happy with him. If we trade back and still get him even better. I can see him being the guy.
I tend to agree. But there is a lot of Paye smoke being wafted.
Paye is going to be a good player but I keep seeing how versatile he is and I think the versatility is in where he lines up, not can he drop into coverage. He is basically the same size as Ojulari except 10-12 pounds heavier. Ojulari is a better fit for our Edge position. Watch some video of both players and you will see how differently they were asked to play. I think Paye and Ojulari have the leadership qualities NYG looks for so they are similar there. It comes down to scheme fit and I think Ojulari is a better overall fit.
Interesting point. Went looking for the stat and this link says it was 53% for the regular season.
There is a run/pass split for the stat and it works out to being on the field for about 40% of opponent running plays and 70% of pass plays.
He played every game, so the count percentage was not affected by missing time.
Nakobe Dean played 76% of snaps at LB for UGA.
If one wanted to put a positive spin on Ojulari's relatively low snap count, one could say that his production stats would have been higher if he played more.
But I'd be concerned about drafting someone that high whose coaches didn't want him on the field more often.
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You could very well be right. Or not!
Annoys me when posters submit opinion as verified, certified and indisputable fact.
Singular and limited as well as potentially untrue.
Strange non productive way of doing a business,of thinking and extending into other areas of our society
I think both are fits for this defense but Paye may be more of the LW type player and Ojulari can be that pure rush edge we are missing.
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the Giants are going to stick to their board. They are drafting players not positions. If Smith or Waddle are significantly higher ranked than Ojulari ( and they should be ) thats where they are going if they are available.
All the " tea leaf " reading is nice to try and figure out.. but they will go with their draft board.
How do you know Smith/Waddle are ahead of Ojulari on the Giants board?
Positional value definitely factors into "the board". Receivers are much easier to find on day 2, day 3 than EDGE guys. Ojulari could very well be top 10 on Giants board, ahead of Smith, Waddle, Parsons etc. He checks all of their boxes..I didn't even mention that he was voted a captain on UGA as a RS Freshman.
You say positional value DEFINITELY factors into " the board "> I dont agree with you. If that was the case the Giants should have NEVER drafted Barkley @ 2. And from what I have read and understand the Giants dont work that way.. Once again I think this bears repeating. What has been said about how the Giants grade players.. The Giants DO NOT rank players 1-50 etc etc. Most teams do not do this.
Number one rule. Mel Kiper doesnt have a draft board. Neither does Todd McShay, Daniel Jeremiah or anyone else. They have lists of players from top to bottom they rank. Thats not a draft board and thats not how teams tend to rank players.
From what I understand and what I have read teams and in particular assign grades to players (very much like Sy'56 ) assigns grades. They they have players in rows and ranks.
So you might have one player in the top row.. Like a Trevor Lawrence. He might be in a row by himself say if he has a grade of 90. Then in the NEXT row you might have several players lumped together with 85s.. and so on and so on.
So you could have several players a team likes grouped together and would be happy with any of them. Some might carry more weight based need and position. Teams dont rank 1-50.
Now I also did NOT say Smith and Waddle are higher.. what I said exactly was
when I say rank.. what I am saying is GRADE.. not rank like Smith is 6, Waddle is 11 and Ojulari is 13.
Giants and most teams as I understand it dont think that way.. and honestly neither do I. Your probably going to have several players with similar grades lumped together.
Chris Petit being at someone's pro day doesnt matter to me. One thats his job. Two where else did he go? Anyone know. Joe Judge was at Penn State. Does that guarantee they are taking Parsons or Oweh @ 11. They were @ Miami.. Does that mean they are taking Phillips or Rouseau @ 11??
No. It means they are completing their evaluation. Nothing more.. nothing less..
in 2 weeks we will know.
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If he doesn't win 9 games this year, he's gonna be fired and at his age there's no next gig in the NFL. Most GMs think he overpaid for our new WR and CB because he needs to now. He's not drafting a guy that might help the next GM win. He's going to take whoever he feels will make the biggest impact in 2021.
You could very well be right. Or not!
Annoys me when posters submit opinion as verified, certified and indisputable fact.
Singular and limited as well as potentially untrue.
Strange non productive way of doing a business,of thinking and extending into other areas of our society
Well, you shouldn't get annoyed since you already know it isn't a certified fact. And moreso because its a fair set of points.
Society will probably survive.
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Reminds me of Osi Umenyiora.
Really? I dont see that at all. Oju is stout against the run and uses length/leverage to win. Osi was quick. Both have good hands though.
Can we get a comparison between him and Paye? Because it is looking like Paye is the darling right now.
Yeah I cant imagine you've watched very much of Azeez to say "you don't see it at all", i think you maybe reading more than you've watched... but Azeez is a speed rusher like Osi, similar size, length and athleticism to Osi. The area he really reminds me of Osi is 'the get off'. They both fly off of the football and bend the edge. Both are better vs the pass than vs the run. Osi had more pass rush moves, Azeez has more power. Both have/had elite ability to get off the ball at the snap. This is just my opinion but yeah, Azeez reminds me of Osi.
One thing where I think there is some fire behind the smoke. I think JJ is running the show and he doesn't seem keen on guys who opted out. A lot of the guys being "rumored" are guys that played last year. Keep that in mind.
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In comment 15218240 90.Cal said:
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Reminds me of Osi Umenyiora.
Really? I dont see that at all. Oju is stout against the run and uses length/leverage to win. Osi was quick. Both have good hands though.
Can we get a comparison between him and Paye? Because it is looking like Paye is the darling right now.
Yeah I cant imagine you've watched very much of Azeez to say "you don't see it at all", i think you maybe reading more than you've watched... but Azeez is a speed rusher like Osi, similar size, length and athleticism to Osi. The area he really reminds me of Osi is 'the get off'. They both fly off of the football and bend the edge. Both are better vs the pass than vs the run. Osi had more pass rush moves, Azeez has more power. Both have/had elite ability to get off the ball at the snap. This is just my opinion but yeah, Azeez reminds me of Osi.
AZeez actually reminds me a lot of Ngakoue. Similar size/athletic profile and wins a lot on the edge with his hands, Wins with a very similar set of pass rush moves to Yannick.
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I just think that guy (edge, Ojulari, whoever) is the other guy is the other guy...nothing special about this one as opposed to that one.
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