for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: How good were The Smashing Pumpkins?

chopperhatch : 4/13/2021 1:22 am
Weird topic,but looking to see what my peers think. They emerged during a period dominated by grunge bands and pretty much immediately following the last of the hard rock outfits like GnR, Aerosmith on its last legs. Blind Melon had a cool sound, but no band had as distinguishing a sound as The Smashing Pumpkins. Sure they had those overdrive-laden songs on Siamese Dream, but really beautifully written progressions. Mayonnaise and 1979 are two of my favorite songs ever. Then you get MellonCollie and its like a completely different band...meaning a totally reinvented sound. Dont get me wrong, I thought the double album was a mistake as there is plenty of crap on there too.

I always thought Corgan to be a weirdo, but then you listen to him talk about his music and what hes been through in his life and I have come to admire this band more and more over the years.

Anybody get feels when looking back on this group?
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 | Show All |  Next>>
Gish  
LeonBright45 : 4/13/2021 1:53 am : link
Great album
Siamese Dream is a very strong album  
jcp56 : 4/13/2021 2:05 am : link
Thought of them when reading the thread about bands you like despite the vocals. Thought of the Smashing Pumpkins and Rush.
They were ... OK.  
Route 9 : 4/13/2021 2:10 am : link
Not the best, not the worst. Definitely a staple for 90s alt-rock so I cannot be totally dismissive of them completely. I could say that I do have a nostalgia for their sound, that time and Corgan had a distinctive style.

Just an anecdotal thing, I always noticed the more annoying kids around me liked them and kind of overhyped their songs. I never once went out of my way to hear their music or ever wanted to see them in concert. I will just leave it at that.
Overrated  
montanagiant : 4/13/2021 2:53 am : link
Vastly overrated
Certainly a top 10 band of the era  
Producer : 4/13/2021 5:32 am : link
I saw them many times in the 90s. Most memorably, opening for RHCP with PJ at Roseland. That was during Gish. And then I saw them at the old Academy introduce MCATIS. Great shows.

They weren't as great as Nirvana, but they were up there.
Felt they would have been better with a female singer.  
penkap75 : 4/13/2021 7:21 am : link
Corgan is talented but he sings like shit. Should stick to song writing and guitar playing. I'm an old metal head, but I do like early pumpkins (gish and sd).
And I like that Corgan turned out to be a right wing nut job.  
penkap75 : 4/13/2021 7:23 am : link
The pro wrestling thing is weird though.
They were average...  
EricJ : 4/13/2021 7:30 am : link
..
Overrated, whiney...  
vonritz : 4/13/2021 7:32 am : link
shite.
Gish to Mellon Collie is amazing  
Bear vs Shark : 4/13/2021 7:46 am : link
I put that era of the band up there with pretty much anyone within ten years of them.

Went downhill fast though around Adore.

Unpopular opinion, but Zwan wasn't bad.
I see them  
Jolly Blue Giant : 4/13/2021 7:57 am : link
As a grunge band not a GnR /Black Crowes type.
The unquestioned king of 90's...  
knowledgetimmons : 4/13/2021 7:58 am : link
Rock drumming is Dave Grohl, BUT Jimmy Chamberlin of Pumpkins gives him a run. I'm a fan of their music but I definitely understand the love them or hate them with this band.

Siamese Dream is a nearly perfect album.
RE: The unquestioned king of 90's...  
Bear vs Shark : 4/13/2021 7:59 am : link
In comment 15218318 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
Rock drumming is Dave Grohl, BUT Jimmy Chamberlin of Pumpkins gives him a run. I'm a fan of their music but I definitely understand the love them or hate them with this band.

Siamese Dream is a nearly perfect album.
I think Jimmy is better than Grohl tbh.

Also yeah, Corgan's voice does get on my nerves, and current day Corgan kinda sucks. But the late 80s early 90s Pumpkins were undeniably awesome.
The 90's was a dead-zone for rock...  
BamaBlue : 4/13/2021 8:07 am : link
The Smashing Pumpkins were another one of those nostalgic, but not memorable bands.
Hopefully will see them at Fenway Park  
Carl in CT : 4/13/2021 8:08 am : link
This summer with GNR
They’ve held up really well IMO  
UConn4523 : 4/13/2021 8:08 am : link
one of the bigger musical influences of my childhood. Corgans style is love it or hate it but that’s the same with many popular bands. I can easily listen to their early work today and not get bored by it.
They have some great songs  
mattlawson : 4/13/2021 8:34 am : link
Not sure they are a great band.
Musically  
pjcas18 : 4/13/2021 8:39 am : link
IMO they were one of the best of the grunge bands.

lyrically too.

Siamese Dream is a masterpiece, Gish underrated.

By mellon collie they became more corporate but still some good songs.

I even liked the song Honestly by Zwan.

Personality wise (Corgan really) was the worst, and sometimes that influences people more than the music

I'm a sucker for lyrics and Disarm was such a powerful song as was Drown - about the one who got away. I'm a sucker for those kinds of songs too.

Rhinoceros is underrated.
RE: Overrated, whiney...  
UConn4523 : 4/13/2021 8:51 am : link
In comment 15218304 vonritz said:
Quote:
shite.


Can't argue if you don't like them, but overrated? They are never really thought of as the premier band of their era. That's typically owned by Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, etc.

If anything I think they are somewhat underrated.
I don't really think they're a grunge band tbh  
Bear vs Shark : 4/13/2021 8:58 am : link
There's way more of an theatrical/orchestral/artsy vibe to them, and they didn't have as much of their music steeped in the sludge or punkiness that other grunge bands did (side note: this is going to be a really unpopular opinion, but Ten, in *hindsight*, sounds like way less of a grunge album than other grunge albums released at the same time).

Pumpkins were always a bit of an outlier in that entire scene. Then again, the funny thing about grunge is that none of the "Big 4" sounded like eachother (well, maybe Soundgarden and AIC had some commonalities).

Nirvana sounded very different than Pearl Jam, who sounded very different from Soundgarden and Alice in Chains, who sounded very different than the Pumpkins.

I also always thought the Pumpkins were like two separate bands rolled into one.

You had the aggressive, fast songs (my favorites being Geek USA, Where Boys Fear to Tread, Siva, and Jellybelly), the softer/orchestral stuff (1979 being the most famous example, but Silverfuck, but things like 33, Mayonaise, Soma), and then the shit kind of in the middle (Bury Me).

They had a really good run up until Adore. Mellon Collie probably could have cut some songs though. And FWIW, Siamese Dream is def one of the best albums of the early 90s IMO.

Damn, idk why I keep returning to this thread to post thoughts on the Smashing Pumpkins lol. I do have their poster hanging up in my wall of the famous 1996 show at MSG that never happened, so maybe I undersold how much I used to love them growing up, even if they were slightly before my time.

Billy Corgan really is an asshole though.
Just to add another thought  
Bear vs Shark : 4/13/2021 8:59 am : link
as annoying as Corgan's vocals could be, his guitarwork is fucking great. Geek USA solo is so dope.
Siamese Dream is a fantastic album  
Greg from LI : 4/13/2021 8:59 am : link
and Quiet is a highly underrated song
Corgan is a talented guy  
Johnny5 : 4/13/2021 9:02 am : link
I remember the first time I really started listening to them was when they did Sat Night Live back in the early 90s. Chreub Rock (live anyway) blew me away. I really liked the other guitar player James Iha with them as well. Drown is another fave of mine on that great Singles soundtrack. That said, I liked them but didn't love them. A lot of their stuff was really hit or miss for me.
Cherub  
Johnny5 : 4/13/2021 9:03 am : link
.
loved Gish  
GiantsLaw : 4/13/2021 9:03 am : link
really liked Siamese Dream. Thought Mellon was OK but more or less stopped listening after Siamese Dream. Still really like those two albums though.
Their first 2 albums are fantastic.  
Section331 : 4/13/2021 9:04 am : link
Mellon Collie, on the other hand, was an overrated mess. It had moments, but would have been much better served as a single album. Even then, it wouldn't stand up to the first 2.

I haven't closely followed them in their later iterations.
Billy Corgan's ego kind of ruined the band IMO  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/13/2021 10:03 am : link
...He thought he was some sort of Trent Reznor genius and he's just not. He became one of those musicians that got so hungry for love from the critics that his work seemed forced.

Plus the shift to Electronica and vampire costume and makeup seemed so contrived.
RE: The 90's was a dead-zone for rock...  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/13/2021 10:05 am : link
In comment 15218326 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
The Smashing Pumpkins were another one of those nostalgic, but not memorable bands.


Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam would like a word with you...
RE: RE: The 90's was a dead-zone for rock...  
Producer : 4/13/2021 10:19 am : link
In comment 15218533 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 15218326 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


The Smashing Pumpkins were another one of those nostalgic, but not memorable bands.



Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam would like a word with you...


Yea, the first 5 years, especially, were tremendous. You also had Sonic Youth, the Pixies, Jane's Addiction, RHCP, Oasis, REM, U2, The Screaming Trees, Alice In Chains, Green Day, etc etc..
how on earth was the 90's a dead zone for rock?  
UConn4523 : 4/13/2021 10:21 am : link
one of the more absurd things I've read on this board in quite some time.
Their vein of alt rock, or whatever you wanna call it  
JonC : 4/13/2021 10:23 am : link
wasn't my jam at all, but they were pretty big in the 90s.
and I'll add to the list above  
UConn4523 : 4/13/2021 10:23 am : link
Rage Against the Machine, STP, Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, Tool, Korn, Deftones, Incubus, on and on and on.
more..  
Producer : 4/13/2021 10:24 am : link
GnR, Metallica, Jesus and the Mary Chain, the Black Crowes, Bob Mould, Radiohead...
I liked Corgan's solo album TheFutureEmbrace  
widmerseyebrow : 4/13/2021 10:27 am : link
When he stays in his lane vocally you forget that he's not a great singer and can enjoy the music more imo.

The Pumpkins had some classics. Never close to my favorite band but an undeniable part of my youth. Overall I'd probably lean towards the "good but not great" reflection of their career.
Corgan was a  
Producer : 4/13/2021 10:29 am : link
bit like Cobain. A songwriting savant. He even wrote a lot of Hole's second album, Celebrity Skin, after Cobain wrote most of Hole's first album, Live Through This.
Great music  
Pete in MD : 4/13/2021 10:34 am : link
but his voice is grating. I suppose it added to their unique sound but it bothered me after a while. Their early albums were better before they got more "poppy" but still a solid band. Their former bass player and her husband own an art/performance space in Hudson, NY.
RE: more..  
eric2425ny : 4/13/2021 10:34 am : link
In comment 15218579 Producer said:
Quote:
GnR, Metallica, Jesus and the Mary Chain, the Black Crowes, Bob Mould, Radiohead...


Stone Temple Pilots as well.
The 90s were a dead zone for rock????  
Bear vs Shark : 4/13/2021 10:35 am : link
In what world? It was the apex of creativity. Due to how music was distributed (album sales), you still had labels taking changes while having a modicum of quality control.

The 90s was the best music for rock music IMO. It's a shame that rock has fallen into less and less relevancy till we reached it's current state, but a lot of the blame falls at the feet of us (the fans) and the artists themselves. That's a whole other conversation though...
RE: The 90's was a dead-zone for rock...  
eric2425ny : 4/13/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15218326 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
The Smashing Pumpkins were another one of those nostalgic, but not memorable bands.


You have to be kidding. The 90’s was one of the best rock decades ever. I’m not even going to name the bands because Producer already did. I felt like Rock music started going downhill around 2005 or so.
RE: The 90s were a dead zone for rock????  
eric2425ny : 4/13/2021 10:38 am : link
In comment 15218613 Bear vs Shark said:
Quote:
In what world? It was the apex of creativity. Due to how music was distributed (album sales), you still had labels taking changes while having a modicum of quality control.

The 90s was the best music for rock music IMO. It's a shame that rock has fallen into less and less relevancy till we reached it's current state, but a lot of the blame falls at the feet of us (the fans) and the artists themselves. That's a whole other conversation though...


It was also an amazing decade for rap music. I feel like Rock and Rap have really declined the last 10 or 15 years, but the 90’s were amazing. From a rock perspective you got away from all that hair band garbage from the 80’s and introduced a moody pissed off wave of music with grunge which is my favorite era of rock.
They were very good live  
RAIN : 4/13/2021 10:39 am : link
I saw them on their Siamese Dream tour in smallish Montreal club. A top ten show for myself. Their sound was big and they were tight. Music is always subjective, but when you look at Gish, SD, And Melon Collie I would say they were a foundation for Grunge, with their own spin, during the nineties.
RE: RE: The 90s were a dead zone for rock????  
Johnny5 : 4/13/2021 11:00 am : link
In comment 15218623 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 15218613 Bear vs Shark said:


Quote:


In what world? It was the apex of creativity. Due to how music was distributed (album sales), you still had labels taking changes while having a modicum of quality control.

The 90s was the best music for rock music IMO. It's a shame that rock has fallen into less and less relevancy till we reached it's current state, but a lot of the blame falls at the feet of us (the fans) and the artists themselves. That's a whole other conversation though...



It was also an amazing decade for rap music. I feel like Rock and Rap have really declined the last 10 or 15 years, but the 90’s were amazing. From a rock perspective you got away from all that hair band garbage from the 80’s and introduced a moody pissed off wave of music with grunge which is my favorite era of rock.

I agree, I still listen quite a bit to 90's Hip hop and grunge... probably more than anything else. Especially when I'm working out. It's funny, musically I write and play Jazz fusion... lol.
RE: RE: The 90's was a dead-zone for rock...  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/13/2021 11:05 am : link
In comment 15218617 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 15218326 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


The Smashing Pumpkins were another one of those nostalgic, but not memorable bands.



You have to be kidding. The 90’s was one of the best rock decades ever. I’m not even going to name the bands because Producer already did. I felt like Rock music started going downhill around 2005 or so.


I'd probably say it started going downhill in 1998 or so when the recording industry spent all of their development and publicity money on the former "Mickey Mouse Club" acts (i.e. Britney Spears, N'Sync, Backstreet Boys, Jessica Simpson).

Those artists were way more profitable (they didn't write their own songs) and easy to control. The industry's publicity machine flooded them on MTV and the radio and pushed rock bands right off the air waves.
IMO, one of the best bands of the 90s  
Gap92 : 4/13/2021 11:18 am : link
They're one of those bands where if you only know the singles and videos, you really don't know much about them. The album tracks and even B-sides is where most of the magic is.

From a songwriting perspective, Corgan was insanely prolific throughout the 90s. There were so many songs written around each official release. Hell, even the Aeroplane Flies High box set of B-sides/unused songs has its own boxset of even more B-sides/unused songs. I get that for some people it's all shit, but for me his quality ratio is extremely high across hundreds of songs between Gish and Machina 1+2. I can't think of many people with a better good-to-bad ratio across that many songs.

From a musician perspective, Corgan and Chamberlain were heavyweights and their playing still sounds fresh today.

With all that said, I haven't liked much after Machina or after the Zwan album. I think Corgan has largely emptied his tank when it comes to great songs, but he's left us with a shitload of them.

great band  
djm : 4/13/2021 11:19 am : link
overrated my ass. What does that even mean? lol. Did they make an all star team when it wasn't warranted? Fans paid money to see them. Paid money to buy their music. They were popular for a reason. Corgan is batyshit crazy but he's certainly interesting and a well thought individual.
I grew upon 70's rock  
dabru : 4/13/2021 11:27 am : link
and I thought 80's rock mostly sucked until GNR - the early grunge was pretty good but really got better as more and more bands were promoted.

A friend of mine loved 80's hair bands and thought crunge ruined rock- but for me it really brought back the blues element of rock, not in the traditional sound way but more in a way that it expanded on the themes lyrically and how it made you feel listening to it.
One of my favorites...  
Ryan : 4/13/2021 11:29 am : link
...but I absolutely see why they're polarizing and can't argue that the direction they took after Machina lost me. I think it reached a point where the whole jaded youth theme was overworked and required a hard course correction. Siamese Dream is one of several albums that came out during that stretch that was just stellar front to back. I have a Fender Strat I bought back in college that I had made very close to his specs back in '97 before any of his signature models ever rolled out.

Everything about Corgan is distinctive but yes he's a big league, grade A asshole who's history of gaslighting other band members with the unbearable burden of label/tour expectations is legendary.

Jimmy Chamberlain is an absolute monster. His track on Geek USA was a 1st take which for anyone who's every recorded music knows is pretty fucking bonkers.

RE: RE: RE: The 90's was a dead-zone for rock...  
Greg from LI : 4/13/2021 11:30 am : link
In comment 15218678 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:

I'd probably say it started going downhill in 1998 or so when the recording industry spent all of their development and publicity money on the former "Mickey Mouse Club" acts (i.e. Britney Spears, N'Sync, Backstreet Boys, Jessica Simpson).

Those artists were way more profitable (they didn't write their own songs) and easy to control. The industry's publicity machine flooded them on MTV and the radio and pushed rock bands right off the air waves.


Circa 1999-2000 also had the stink of nu-metal. That crap was horrid.
there's a big gap between  
UConn4523 : 4/13/2021 11:39 am : link
the NuMetal bands. Limp Bizkit was absolutely terrible but there are still some good ones. They tried doing too many rap/rock crossovers but bands like Korn nailed it. Deftones and System of a Down i'd classify as Numetal and like both, for example.
Corgan...  
Chris in Philly : 4/13/2021 11:41 am : link
is an all time douche, but he could absolutely shred. He pulled back to a less showy style more fitting the musical style, but if you see footage from when he was younger it is hilarious to see him go nuts like he was in a hair metal band...
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner