Weird topic,but looking to see what my peers think. They emerged during a period dominated by grunge bands and pretty much immediately following the last of the hard rock outfits like GnR, Aerosmith on its last legs. Blind Melon had a cool sound, but no band had as distinguishing a sound as The Smashing Pumpkins. Sure they had those overdrive-laden songs on Siamese Dream, but really beautifully written progressions. Mayonnaise and 1979 are two of my favorite songs ever. Then you get MellonCollie and its like a completely different band...meaning a totally reinvented sound. Dont get me wrong, I thought the double album was a mistake as there is plenty of crap on there too.
I always thought Corgan to be a weirdo, but then you listen to him talk about his music and what hes been through in his life and I have come to admire this band more and more over the years.
Anybody get feels when looking back on this group?
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Route 9 -- yeah, I never said Blink was like some super deep wordsmiths lol. But certain songs -- like Man Overboard, which is about having to kick out their drummer due to him being an alcoholic -- actually do have good lyrics.
Oh yeah I get it. My friends were all huge Blink fans and they were all slow and no one ever accused them of being geniuses lol. I'm just fucking with people like them.
Yeah. We know they're not a sesquipedalian deep lyric band, their sets are sloppy but then their fans find it unimaginable when people aren't impressed by their dumbass songs. It never ends.
I attended 4 or 5 of their shows between 2001-2009. So many fights over who was staying and who wasn't after Blink was done their set. Did you go to that one in 2004 when they did a concert with No Doubt?
The show sucked but the only thing worth sticking around for was seeing Gwen Stefani up close. I left with a different crowd than the one I arrived with.
Gwen stays in shape.
It ended up leading to a whole genre called "easycore" which was more or less Pop Punk with hardcore breakdowns (Four Year Strong being my favorite, A Day To Remember being the biggest band), which then lead to bands like Title Fight and the Story So Far who brought way more of that punk edge back to things.
Granted, that mall punk era also led to some bands I think kind of sucked at the time, like early Panic at the Disco and Simple Plan, but ya gotta take the good with the bad.
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Route 9 -- yeah, I never said Blink was like some super deep wordsmiths lol. But certain songs -- like Man Overboard, which is about having to kick out their drummer due to him being an alcoholic -- actually do have good lyrics.
Oh yeah I get it. My friends were all huge Blink fans and they were all slow and no one ever accused them of being geniuses lol. I'm just fucking with people like them.
Yeah. We know they're not a sesquipedalian deep lyric band, their sets are sloppy but then their fans find it unimaginable when people aren't impressed by their dumbass songs. It never ends.
I attended 4 or 5 of their shows between 2001-2009. So many fights over who was staying and who wasn't after Blink was done their set. Did you go to that one in 2004 when they did a concert with No Doubt?
The show sucked but the only thing worth sticking around for was seeing Gwen Stefani up close. I left with a different crowd than the one I arrived with.
Gwen stays in shape.
Surprised that your friends were like that though. Even by the time I was like 15, Blink 182 was already sort of a guilty pleasure. It's hard to take them super seriously as musicians when I was using bands like Mars Volta as the templates for my own band at the time.
Then as I got older, it turned into one of those "fuck it, it was cheezy, but we all liked it at the time, so let's not front" type of things. Kind of like that band Cartel.
And yeah, Gwen Stefani is fucking hot. Plus she dated their Indian-American guitarist for a long time, so I'm always down with hot non-Indian girls who date brown dudes lol. Needed those examples when I was an insecure 8th grader about going for it.
Those days were fun. Nice to know I lived during a time without a computer or cell phone in my house.
my buddies used to get in raging battles about best 80's rock albumn AC DC Back in Black and Guns 'n Roses Appetite for Destruction.
they were like opposite sides of the decade and just represented different eras of our life, I was 8 or 9 when Back in Black came out and 16 or so with Appetite so you just relate differently.
but none of the Weezer/Blink/littany of bands like them came close to that level of rock icons.
but to my point before they were still fun.
Amazing that all those guys who I went to concerts with 15-20 years ago are now all bald, heavyset dudes and "happily" married with their own man caves or whatever.
Living not far from Atlantic City, an hour from Philadelphia, New York City and even North jersey's Arenas and stadium in less than two, I must have attended 150 concerts all together in my day. It was a privilege to see so many shows, even some I'm not proud of.
I used to work at the Borgata as well.
Amazing that all those guys who I went to concerts with 15-20 years ago are now all bald, heavyset dudes and "happily" married with their own man caves or whatever.
Living not far from Atlantic City, an hour from Philadelphia, New York City and even North jersey's Arenas and stadium in less than two, I must have attended 150 concerts all together in my day. It was a privilege to see so many shows, even some I'm not proud of.
I used to work at the Borgata as well.
That's awesome though. I really miss live music, can't wait till everything is back to normal. And I don't even just being allowed to go, but just everyone acting like they did pre-covid.
they were like opposite sides of the decade and just represented different eras of our life, I was 8 or 9 when Back in Black came out and 16 or so with Appetite so you just relate differently.
but none of the Weezer/Blink/littany of bands like them came close to that level of rock icons.
but to my point before they were still fun.
I do like Nirvana. I do like Guns N Roses. I'd say I would gravitate more towards the AC DC and Guns N Roses Metallica type of music over 90s alt-rock. It's just music and those bands can be annoying as well.
My friends and I did listen to Limp Bizkit but I never took it seriously. I did like Linkin Park but my appreciation for them is top-heavy in their first album. Meteora was a disappointing album it was just boring? Every album since just declined in production quality.
Aimee Allen (AKA Aimee Interrupter) is easy on the eyes even as she emulates Joan Jett, and they're more ska than punk, but punk is broad and hence they are classified as "ska punk"
I was a massive Mighty Mighty Bosstones fan in the late 80's early 90's and they bring back that scene a little.
I think the first three records are high quality. The production on the two Ric Ocasek records is awesome, and the song writing on Pinkerton is enjoyable.
It’s a bummer Matt Sharp left after two records. He’s an underrated songwriter and there’s a bunch of good Rentals stuff.
I think the first three records are high quality. The production on the two Ric Ocasek records is awesome, and the song writing on Pinkerton is enjoyable.
It’s a bummer Matt Sharp left after two records. He’s an underrated songwriter and there’s a bunch of good Rentals stuff.
It almost feels like like Rivers made an attempt at going the Pavement direction with Pinkerton, found it didn't work, Matt Sharp left, and it then did a 180 and went full pop with Green Album (songs like Hash Pipe and Island in the Sun, compared to No Other One? You can hear the Pavement in one and the lack of it in the other).
Matt Sharp was definitely a bit of the "secret sauce". Great songwriter, and while I wouldn't say I know too too much of the Rentals besides the album with Friends of P, you can hear the difference pretty clearly when it comes to him leaving Weezer.
Rivers was always into that glam type shit though, he even references KISS in In the Garage, so maybe Matt Sharp was a bit of a counterbalance to that.
Side note, Rivers song exploder (where artists breakdown their songwriting process) is really fucking interesting. Dude has a spreadsheet based system for capturing ideas, lol.
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As far as Cuomo and later Weezer, I’ve never really begrudged the guy or been down on the pop records. Sometimes success doesn’t completely destroy a guy, and the second act isn’t dark as shit.
One thing that was really funny in retrospect was the intense, and I do mean intense, antipathy between punk and metal guys. It was only when I got into my late 20s/early 30s that I was finally able to embrace my inner metalhead and openly listen to Slayer and Megadeth and Pantera. That sort of thing just wasn't done if you were a punk/indie guy in the '90s. Metal was for meatheads, the real life versions of Beavis and Butthead. Motorhead was OK,but that was about it.
After the Blue album and Pinkerton I think he just said I'm going to make millions and I don't give a F. I really believe his entire career since has been one big middle finger to everyone.
If you give the success of Blue and Pinkerton to Sharp, how do you explain the Rentals lack of success? Friends of P, The Love I'm Searching For and Summer Girl (which are great by the way), but that's it?
Doesn't make sense.
If you ever listen to the words of "I am the Greatest Man that Ever Lived" by Weezer you can sense the irony.
And I think if Weezer tried to be another band (I don't think they did) it would be more like they tried to be Green Day than Pavement - and Pavement is another band I liked and maybe even fit the "nerd rock" label.
After the Blue album and Pinkerton I think he just said I'm going to make millions and I don't give a F. I really believe his entire career since has been one big middle finger to everyone.
If you give the success of Blue and Pinkerton to Sharp, how do you explain the Rentals lack of success? Friends of P, The Love I'm Searching For and Summer Girl (which are great by the way), but that's it?
Doesn't make sense.
If you ever listen to the words of "I am the Greatest Man that Ever Lived" by Weezer you can sense the irony.
And I think if Weezer tried to be another band (I don't think they did) it would be more like they tried to be Green Day than Pavement - and Pavement is another band I liked and maybe even fit the "nerd rock" label.
Aside from that though, there are plenty of reasons artist could get popular and another might not, especially in the 90s when things were driven by album sales.
And Greg, that's what happens when people have to buy albums and pay for their music as opposed to finding it online or getting it from a streaming service. You identify with the music more as a subculture.
Dave Grohl? if that, and is that it?
I say grunge era because Dinosaur Jr, weren't traditional grunge, but had some similarities, they were probably one of the first alternative bands (besides the Pixies of course who were alternative and didn't know it).
I think the worst thing that can be said about the grunge era is it directly or indirectly birthed emo and pop-punk, but some of those bands were fun too, even if not technically great.
Did you see that advertisement from the local car dealer about J Mascis buying a VW Golf? I thought is was fake but it's not.
I saw this quote reading a review of the Rentals last night which captures my view of Weezer perfectly.
Greg, re-reading your post, so you were one of the punk dudes? I know a lot about what you hated growing up lol but what did you like?
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isn't in Blink-182 anymore. He was replaced a while ago by Matt Skiba from Alkaline Trio. I think they are working on a new album.
The new Blink is so meh though.
Greg, re-reading your post, so you were one of the punk dudes? I know a lot about what you hated growing up lol but what did you like?
This is going to sound cliched but I liked some of their early stuff. After Dude Ranch they became too silly IMO. They were always a little silly but it was too much for me.
these people live their lives and have experiences - emotional, literal, whatever - they experience love, lust, anguish, whatever.
and as artists do they create content based on those life experiences.
So, if people are being honest Cheshire Cat by Blink-182 is a damn good debut, and Weezer blue is as well.
What then happens is in some cases the artist has used up their best and most emotive experiences to create that art and need to try and duplicate it.
It's rare for an artist to be able to repeat that and often what happens is like the movie multiplicity with Michael Keaton, each clone of the original is missing something else from the original.
which is what separates the all time greats who consistently reinvent themselves and produce high quality contents for years or decades from those artists where you say "I liked their early stuff"
of course there are anomalies and outliers. Some bands don't hit their stride right away (figure out what they are or want to be) so maybe release #1 wasn't the best (Radiohead for example - though I loved Pablo Honey - even more than their later stuff, but I'm unique with that opinion)
anyway, just my opinion about things I've observed from tons of bands over decades of listening to music.
these people live their lives and have experiences - emotional, literal, whatever - they experience love, lust, anguish, whatever.
and as artists do they create content based on those life experiences.
So, if people are being honest Cheshire Cat by Blink-182 is a damn good debut, and Weezer blue is as well.
What then happens is in some cases the artist has used up their best and most emotive experiences to create that art and need to try and duplicate it.
It's rare for an artist to be able to repeat that and often what happens is like the movie multiplicity with Michael Keaton, each clone of the original is missing something else from the original.
which is what separates the all time greats who consistently reinvent themselves and produce high quality contents for years or decades from those artists where you say "I liked their early stuff"
of course there are anomalies and outliers. Some bands don't hit their stride right away (figure out what they are or want to be) so maybe release #1 wasn't the best (Radiohead for example - though I loved Pablo Honey - even more than their later stuff, but I'm unique with that opinion)
anyway, just my opinion about things I've observed from tons of bands over decades of listening to music.
There is a Strummer documentary (The Future is Unwritten -or something like that) - he hated what he became - in fact the Clash as a band struggled with success - many artists do.
not comparing Weezer or Blink 182 to the Clash (lol), but same concept.
In high school, I was very into Nirvana, Helmet, Fugazi, Jawbox, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Primus. Punk was more in college - Ramones, Misfits, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Fear, Descendents, Bad Religion,Minutemen, Bad Brains, Guttermouth, Screeching Weasel, etc.
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Greg, re-reading your post, so you were one of the punk dudes? I know a lot about what you hated growing up lol but what did you like?
In high school, I was very into Nirvana, Helmet, Fugazi, Jawbox, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Primus. Punk was more in college - Ramones, Misfits, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Fear, Descendents, Bad Religion,Minutemen, Bad Brains, Guttermouth, Screeching Weasel, etc.
A lot of overlap except I can't really explain why - I'm not sure there is a rational reason but i hated Soundgarden.
Maybe because Black Hole Sun was played on WPLR once every 45 minutes for three years or because I viewed my allegiance to Pearl Jam and that meant i had to hate Nirvana, AIC and Soundgarden, but otherwise a lot of overlap.
I also liked some of the emo punk/pop bands like the Get up Kids, the Ataris, etc.
only other band I was a huge fan of from that time frame is Social D.
I also worshiped Minor Threat and Fugazi as a teenager and now my brother lives around the corner from Ian. They chat at block parties and community events. My brother is the neighborhood representative.
I also worshiped Minor Threat and Fugazi as a teenager and now my brother lives around the corner from Ian. They chat at block parties and community events. My brother is the neighborhood representative.
And yeah, Fugazi is incredible. My 8th grade teacher gave me a burned copy of 13 Songs which had a huge impact on me.
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Greg, re-reading your post, so you were one of the punk dudes? I know a lot about what you hated growing up lol but what did you like?
In high school, I was very into Nirvana, Helmet, Fugazi, Jawbox, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Primus. Punk was more in college - Ramones, Misfits, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Fear, Descendents, Bad Religion,Minutemen, Bad Brains, Guttermouth, Screeching Weasel, etc.
Out of those bands you mentioned though, personally, my favorites (other than Nirvana) are Helmet, Jawbox, Fugazi, and Soundgarden. Good shit man.
I also liked some of the emo punk/pop bands like the Get up Kids, the Ataris, etc.
only other band I was a huge fan of from that time frame is Social D.
There was a really big pop punk revival around 2009-2014, and you'd probably be into some of those bands. Other than Title Fight who I've mentioned before, there's Daggermouth, the Wonder Years, the Story So Far. You should check some of it out. If you were into those bands back then though, you ever check out Saves the Day from that era?
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are still one of my favorites. I've seen them more times than I can count.
I also worshiped Minor Threat and Fugazi as a teenager and now my brother lives around the corner from Ian. They chat at block parties and community events. My brother is the neighborhood representative.
GET UP KIDS!! Were you also into Sunny Day Real Estate, Piebald (a little later of a band) or Promise Ring?
And yeah, Fugazi is incredible. My 8th grade teacher gave me a burned copy of 13 Songs which had a huge impact on me.
Promise Ring definitely. Sunny Day to a lesser extent but they kind of invented that genre. I never really listened to Piebald. We called it Emo in the late '90s, early 2000's but Emo became something else later on.
And I can't believe I left out Social Distortion - I even have a Social Distortion tattoo from way back when.
Some decent songs, sort of in the emo punk genre with get up kids, simple plan, A new found glory, taking back sunday, saves the day, etc.
Ataris did a cover of Don Henly Boys of Summer they had soem good decent stuff.
hey kid is my favorite song by them,
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definitely and the singer sounds like a little kid, ironically in that song "I'm just a kid"
I think Greg is a bit older than I am, just judging by his posts about music.
Oh yeah. Another one of those bands that's awful in the Blink/Weezer lump is Fall Out Boy. I might even have to go ahead and put Maroon 5 above all of them. Lol.