Is it me or has the QB draft market gone crazy? Unless this is the best all time QB class…. some teams are making very large mistakes.
Sirius NFL radio was praising SF????? Giving up 2 extra 1st and 3rd for the 3rd QB taken in the draft…. what am I missing? Now, there is talk of Washington giving up all their draft picks for the 4th/5th QB……lets be thankful.
I have no idea yet if Daniel Jones will be the Giants franchise QB…but as a prospect…. he is as good or better than most of these guys. Kudos to the Chargers, Giants and even Miami to find their young QBs without this frenzy.
Speaking of Daniel Jones, I am all for adding targets for Jones and more OL help and this is a great draft for both WRs and OL. if its me.... in the 1st RD…
What qualifies an Edge? Or better yet, what makes a DE or OLB an edge? Do they just specialize in rushing the passer? I do not think the Giants are looking for a DE “Edge” …. their DEs are Williams and Lawrence.
So for the Giants, it is an OLB who rushes the passer…but ideally one that does more then that…. I think I understand what Graham defense wants to do…..confuse, cover and attack. We keep hearing “Multiple”.
If qualified as such….imo, the best EDGE in this class and the only “blue chip” defensive player is Micah Parsons. I can not put him in the LT class…..but this guy is an animal. I know…. he has anger issue (but what is wrong with that? So did LT). I might be reading this all wrong…..but here is my thought.
Micah would not reach the Giants at 11 ( the same as his hand size)….if not for mysterious “character issues” and Opt-out in my opinion. My understanding it was a hazing incident that went too far…..and if you understand Penn St these days…..it is hyper-sensitive to any negative news (Understandably) and he opted out because it and unfortunately, the Penn St, defense went with him.
He might be a handful as Coach Chaos said…but well worth it. I believe Parson could be the final piece to that defense……bringing back the glory days.
The Giants sent a large contingent to Penn St…word leaked out, it’s for “Oweh, not Parsons”. Come on? Really….. felt like smoke.
I might be totally off base…..it would not surprise me one bit if the Giants draft Micah Parson. BBI and the Giants fans will fall in love with his game. ILB, OLB or Edge, he will fit anywhere, just like Graham likes 😊.
I know many want a TOP WR or OL…..and I do not claim to be an expert but there are plenty of interesting players throughout draft that can be had. I wouldn’t be surprised a TE get chosen earlier, as that pool dries up much quicker.
I love what Sy brings to BBI and Thank you. For additional information and cross reference, the Beast by Dane Brugler in the Athletic is an amazing draft guide.
Surtain wouldn't be a sexy pick, but the secondary would be one of, if not the best in the NFL if he pans out.
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not sure he'll be there, or how the Giants view him and the red flags chatter. But, he's the top defensive prospect in the draft and agree he would be a crown jewel pick. Surtain right behind him.
Surtain wouldn't be a sexy pick, but the secondary would be one of, if not the best in the NFL if he pans out.
I'd pick him or Horn before Edge at #11, even Farley if they're high on him. The top CBs are that good.
One thing that might be happening is that teams recognise it's a high risk choice selecting a quarterback, but the rewards of getting the right one are so high they don't want to miss out, hence the frenzy. We really don't know how Justin Fields will pan out in the NFL, but the upside is definitely huge with him, so whereas Mahomes and Watson went #10 and #12, now teams are jumping up to take him, so he goes top five whereas five years ago he might have gone between #8 and #18.
4QBs/Pitts/Sewell/Chase - add Parsons - that is 8
With Pitts long gone by 9, both Den/Dal will not be picking WR. So that would leave both Smith/Waddle there.
If there are only 3 QBs, taken, then there would be a slight possibility that both Parsons/Smith are gone.
If one of the 4-8 slots wanted to go OLine not Sewell, then they would be nuts not to move to 11 and get their guy (with Den/Dal needing to go Defense).
Gonna be fun :)
I get it....but do not see either being the Giants choice. the Giants are in great shape in their backfield.
they need a roaming missile in the front 7.
Now these edge players come in all shapes and sizes. Yes, some are great pass rushers. Some are great at setting an edge. Some can do both. Some can stand up. Some have their hand in the turf.
All my opinion.
I get it....but do not see either being the Giants choice. the Giants are in great shape in their backfield.
they need a roaming missile in the front 7.
Draft the best player, not position.
All my opinion.
We were pretty good last year on defense. Graham schemes well and rotates in guys who bring energy, even if they aren't the stud edges. I think they would prefer to have a top line edge guy, but I would guess that they could live with going by scheme if the margin of improvement was greater at another position.
NFL Draft 2021: Why Penn State Football’s Micah Parsons eyes NY Giants - ( New Window )
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does not need an "ER/Pass Rush" type player. He just needs playmakers. He is brilliant in his designs and can scheme a pass rush. Keeping the QB from escaping the pocket and manufacturing a play is what the Giants need - no more 5 to 7 second scrambles allowing WRs to come free. Keep the QB bottled and converge.
All my opinion.
We were pretty good last year on defense. Graham schemes well and rotates in guys who bring energy, even if they aren't the stud edges. I think they would prefer to have a top line edge guy, but I would guess that they could live with going by scheme if the margin of improvement was greater at another position.
I do not disagree.
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smart leader.....certainly a good addition....and just saw Horn selected by GBN.
I get it....but do not see either being the Giants choice. the Giants are in great shape in their backfield.
they need a roaming missile in the front 7.
Draft the best player, not position.
If it's Parsons, then I agree. But, the CB prospects are better than the Edge prospects.
All my opinion.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here: I watched quarterbacks like Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield pick the Giants apart from the pocket when the Giants were playing contain. If the edge and defensive tackles aren’t getting in the quarterback’s face because they’re keeping themselves out of the pocket, how can the defensive backs hope to keep the receivers covered?
And if recent history is any guide, these franchises have been making the same mistake regarding quarterbacks.
Time frame for developing a team has shrunken drastically. Teams seem to be panicking over making sure they get a "franchise" QB.
The problem with this thinking is very few of these guys are ending up being any good.
Surtain is going to the cowboys if not Parsons
Horn is good
I like Payne too
any one of these four would make me very happy -- Parsons is a notch up on raw talent imo
The 49ers are over Jimmy G (and Mullens) and imo kind of rightfully so. Jimmy G gets hurt a lot and is very inconsistent. This is likely the highest they will be. Not saying I like their move just that I understand the logic.
Matt Ryan is turning 36.
So the first team you get to not in the QB market is Cincy/Burrow at 5.
Then behind them Carolina is in year 2 with a young coach/new regime. They screwed up not taking a QB last year. The Pats and Broncos are both looking as well.
It's just one of those years where supply and demand are both up. Just unlucky it wasn't last year when both DET and NYG had their picks for sale and couldn't find any takers. Bet a lot of what we are seeing this year is a reaction to so many having not seized the chance to move up for Herbert when they had it.
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
The 49ers are over Jimmy G (and Mullens) and imo kind of rightfully so. Jimmy G gets hurt a lot and is very inconsistent. This is likely the highest they will be. Not saying I like their move just that I understand the logic.
Matt Ryan is turning 36.
So the first team you get to not in the QB market is Cincy/Burrow at 5.
Then behind them Carolina is in year 2 with a young coach/new regime. They screwed up not taking a QB last year. The Pats and Broncos are both looking as well.
It's just one of those years where supply and demand are both up. Just unlucky it wasn't last year when both DET and NYG had their picks for sale and couldn't find any takers. Bet a lot of what we are seeing this year is a reaction to so many having not seized the chance to move up for Herbert when they had it.
Sure. But you can't make a player into something he is not.
And the fans get caught up in this BS too. Look at the QBs this board went crazy over in recent drafts who have ended up being complete garbage.
If it wasn't for the Dolphin staff....ai think could have played hard ball for Tua.
And if recent history is any guide, these franchises have been making the same mistake regarding quarterbacks.
Time frame for developing a team has shrunken drastically. Teams seem to be panicking over making sure they get a "franchise" QB.
The problem with this thinking is very few of these guys are ending up being any good.
Eric, George et al: Here's why! The NFL is a passing league. Period. And to be a consistent winner you have to have a great QB. And yeah the likelihood of getting a good one is pretty small, but if you do find your guy you're looking at 10-15 years winning 10-12-13 games, getting home field playoff games and going deep into the playoffs year in, year out. On the other hand, you can have all the all-pros you want at other positions but if you don't have that great QB you're going spend the next 10-15 years scrambling to win 8-9-10 games and hoping you squeak into the playoffs.
In fact, you can probably make the case, given the incredibly disproportionate importance of the position, that team's should be using a high pick on a QB every year even when they have a good one!
But decided to trade Darnold instead....for supposedly Zach Wilson...who is he?
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
I have a (queasy) feeling that the love will fade as the draft comes on and half the QB's will drop, leaving us with some unappetizing options at #11.
But is this '94....with Elway, Montana etc.....if not....there are going to be plenty of un-employed NFL executives and coaches because of it.
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
But the ghosts, the ghosts! :)
And if that happens, a blue-chip talent is better than a red-chip defender. No matter the position.
1) Jax Lawrence
2) NYJ QB
3) SF QB
4) Atl - one of QB/Pitts/Chase
5) Cin one of Pitts/Sewell
6) Mia one of Pitts/Chase
7) Det
8) Car
9) Den - CB since NYG also have D/CB need, cannot move out of 9
10) Dal - CB since NYG also have CB need, cannot move out of 10
It should not matter if Atl trades out of the 4 hole to a QB need team or not, its pretty certain the the top six/seven will consist of 3QBs/Pitts/Chase/Sewell or 4QBs/Pitts/Sewell/Chase.
The Det/Car picks will determine the NYG fate.
My guess is NYG stays at 11 and both Smith and Parsons will be there and they take Smith, leaving edge to next pick with a small move up. I think there will be 4 QBs taken before 11 and Waddle not running take him out of the picture.
Parsons is the type of LB our franchise has needed for decades.
The Jets are absolutely doing the right thing with Darnold/Wilson and it has just as much to do with the contract than the players. Darnold may turn it around although the odds are dwindling for him. Even if he does? You're paying him a mega contract in 2 years time while you are still trying to build the roster around him. Where is the upside? As of right now, you have a brand new coaching staff and are sitting at a spot with a great QB prospect that does not require a trade up. Roll the dice with Wilson and if you hit? You've got him locked in for 4-5 years at a discount with a bevvy of picks and a full chamber in cap money to spend.
both Jones and Darnold is/were better prospects than every one them except Lawrence
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
I have a (queasy) feeling that the love will fade as the draft comes on and half the QB's will drop, leaving us with some unappetizing options at #11.
Well the love can’t fade too much, the Jests don’t have a pro QB on their roster, SF traded their future for something, and Matty Ryan is still 36. Maybe the Broncos give Lock another year and Bridgewater lands somewhere but NE, Pitt and the Skins all need QBs too... and then there’s the Texans, who unfortunately for them have no draft capital.
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The Jags and Jets have new coaches and needed new QBs and are picking 1/2.
The 49ers are over Jimmy G (and Mullens) and imo kind of rightfully so. Jimmy G gets hurt a lot and is very inconsistent. This is likely the highest they will be. Not saying I like their move just that I understand the logic.
Matt Ryan is turning 36.
So the first team you get to not in the QB market is Cincy/Burrow at 5.
Then behind them Carolina is in year 2 with a young coach/new regime. They screwed up not taking a QB last year. The Pats and Broncos are both looking as well.
It's just one of those years where supply and demand are both up. Just unlucky it wasn't last year when both DET and NYG had their picks for sale and couldn't find any takers. Bet a lot of what we are seeing this year is a reaction to so many having not seized the chance to move up for Herbert when they had it.
Sure. But you can't make a player into something he is not.
And the fans get caught up in this BS too. Look at the QBs this board went crazy over in recent drafts who have ended up being complete garbage.
No disagreement there at all. Coaches/GMs generally get 1 chance to pick a QB at most and if they miss they are out of their jobs.
It also cuts the other way though (i.e. if Matt Patricia and Quinn picked Herbert last year and traded Stafford then they'd still have jobs).
The 49ers regime may not seem like it's on the hot seat, but another lackluster year from Garapolo and they would have been. In their division they are at a deficiency against Wilson/Murray, and probably Stafford too. Had they stuck with JG I think the hot seat is exactly where they would have found themselves at this time next year. This was an aggressive pre-emptive strike and while obviously we'd expect that they are doing it because they do in fact love one of these QBs, for practical purposes if it doesn't work out their org leadership may not end up in all that different of a position 2 years from now than they would have if they kept JG.
Far more than 50% (which is basically the bust rate for first round QB's).
FWIW my cousin played basketball at Penn State and his two closest friends (and roommates) are football players and they really don't like Parsons. Apparently most of the team really dislikes him. From what he told me, they all feel he's an arrogant, selfish prick.
Like I said though, take it FWIW - it's not some huge red flag or anything so maybe it's not worth much. Plus maybe he just was (or is) immature and will grow out of it in the NFL being around older, accomplished guys where he's not the star of the show.
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does not need an "ER/Pass Rush" type player. He just needs playmakers. He is brilliant in his designs and can scheme a pass rush. Keeping the QB from escaping the pocket and manufacturing a play is what the Giants need - no more 5 to 7 second scrambles allowing WRs to come free. Keep the QB bottled and converge.
All my opinion.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here: I watched quarterbacks like Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield pick the Giants apart from the pocket when the Giants were playing contain. If the edge and defensive tackles aren’t getting in the quarterback’s face because they’re keeping themselves out of the pocket, how can the defensive backs hope to keep the receivers covered?
Because Murray and Mayfield broke contain? You proved my point. They did not make their plays from the pocket very often. They made their plays scrambling. When contained, like they did for the most part against Russell Wilson, shortish QBs have trouble seeing open players.
The Giants have added some players that are better getting to the QB than what they had last year(i.e., Anderson and Odenigbo).
I am not "agin" a pass rush specialist, but question if that would be a significant upgrade to what they have now from the #11 slot.
We would all love an Osi Umenyoura type with a bit better run defense. Is that player there?
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In comment 15218447 section125 said:
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does not need an "ER/Pass Rush" type player. He just needs playmakers. He is brilliant in his designs and can scheme a pass rush. Keeping the QB from escaping the pocket and manufacturing a play is what the Giants need - no more 5 to 7 second scrambles allowing WRs to come free. Keep the QB bottled and converge.
All my opinion.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here: I watched quarterbacks like Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield pick the Giants apart from the pocket when the Giants were playing contain. If the edge and defensive tackles aren’t getting in the quarterback’s face because they’re keeping themselves out of the pocket, how can the defensive backs hope to keep the receivers covered?
Because Murray and Mayfield broke contain? You proved my point. They did not make their plays from the pocket very often. They made their plays scrambling. When contained, like they did for the most part against Russell Wilson, shortish QBs have trouble seeing open players.
The Giants have added some players that are better getting to the QB than what they had last year(i.e., Anderson and Odenigbo).
I am not "agin" a pass rush specialist, but question if that would be a significant upgrade to what they have now from the #11 slot.
We would all love an Osi Umenyoura type with a bit better run defense. Is that player there?
They didn't break contain. They picked us apart from the pocket.
That's why I believe at number 11 we are drafting one of the Alabama WR's not Parsons. We must surround DJ with weapons in his "prove it" year. A good OL in the second round would also add to our current unproven OL.
Just sayin!!!
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he is down right explosive when you watch him but I am concerned that his character issues seem to be an issue
FWIW my cousin played basketball at Penn State and his two closest friends (and roommates) are football players and they really don't like Parsons. Apparently most of the team really dislikes him. From what he told me, they all feel he's an arrogant, selfish prick.
Like I said though, take it FWIW - it's not some huge red flag or anything so maybe it's not worth much. Plus maybe he just was (or is) immature and will grow out of it in the NFL being around older, accomplished guys where he's not the star of the show.
I'm not doubting any of what your saying -- I have no inside info there -- I just know what I see when I'm watching him on the field
Outside of Lawrence....who has been tauted for years....as the next Elway etc....so I get it...still not a given. The kid played with an NFL roster vs college kids...but I can understand him going 1
all the others...seems to be manifasations in a covid riddled year....
call me skeptical....
Does anyone believe there are 6 franchise QBs in this draft? 5? 4?
Absolutely! Take the 5 guys this year. One will probably end up being really good; 2-3 will by JAGs and 2-3 will be busts. BUT nobody knows who the one will be! So if you don't have a good QB you want one to give yourself a 20% of getting a good one because if you don't get one your odds are 0%.
And the fact is the 5 guys this year are all pretty good prospects. Remember the two guys who have done the best the last 2-3 years so far - Josh Allen and Justin Herbert - were very similar guys to Justin Fields and Mac Jones, this year's somewhat questionable prospects, in that they were highly productive college QBs who had some red flags as far as their pro prospects went.
But when they send him after the QB....the QB always gets hit very hard. He is a missile... lightning quick and strong.
He has biggest hands...strong heavy paws.... powerful.... He is bigger and faster then the Georgia kid that plays edge.
The Jets missed bad on Darnold and missed even worse on Gase? Guess what. They're positioned pretty nicely right now only 3 years later. Could history repeat itself and see them bottom out? Sure. But their new GM has them in position to empty the chamber and make a run if they just get one draft pick right. It's a tough one to get right for sure but the upside is tremendous when you do.
Outside of Lawrence....who has been tauted for years....as the next Elway etc....so I get it...still not a given. The kid played with an NFL roster vs college kids...but I can understand him going 1
all the others...seems to be manifasations in a covid riddled year....
call me skeptical....
Does anyone believe there are 6 franchise QBs in this draft? 5? 4?
See my comment to Eric above; but if you wait until you get a shot at a great prospect you could end up waiting forever!!
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In comment 15218468 Angel Eyes said:
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In comment 15218447 section125 said:
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does not need an "ER/Pass Rush" type player. He just needs playmakers. He is brilliant in his designs and can scheme a pass rush. Keeping the QB from escaping the pocket and manufacturing a play is what the Giants need - no more 5 to 7 second scrambles allowing WRs to come free. Keep the QB bottled and converge.
All my opinion.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here: I watched quarterbacks like Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield pick the Giants apart from the pocket when the Giants were playing contain. If the edge and defensive tackles aren’t getting in the quarterback’s face because they’re keeping themselves out of the pocket, how can the defensive backs hope to keep the receivers covered?
Because Murray and Mayfield broke contain? You proved my point. They did not make their plays from the pocket very often. They made their plays scrambling. When contained, like they did for the most part against Russell Wilson, shortish QBs have trouble seeing open players.
The Giants have added some players that are better getting to the QB than what they had last year(i.e., Anderson and Odenigbo).
I am not "agin" a pass rush specialist, but question if that would be a significant upgrade to what they have now from the #11 slot.
We would all love an Osi Umenyoura type with a bit better run defense. Is that player there?
They didn't break contain. They picked us apart from the pocket.
Ok then....
Especially if they're desperate for one - like the 49ers.
100% agree with this point. How certain are we that Daniel Jones is the next Eli and not the next Sam Darnold or Mitch Trubisky? Gettleman is convinced because his job depends on it, but I want Daniel Jones to show us he is the franchise QB and not just take Mara's word for it.
The Jets are absolutely doing the right thing with Darnold/Wilson and it has just as much to do with the contract than the players. Darnold may turn it around although the odds are dwindling for him. Even if he does? You're paying him a mega contract in 2 years time while you are still trying to build the roster around him. Where is the upside? As of right now, you have a brand new coaching staff and are sitting at a spot with a great QB prospect that does not require a trade up. Roll the dice with Wilson and if you hit? You've got him locked in for 4-5 years at a discount with a bevvy of picks and a full chamber in cap money to spend.
Exactly. The Jets aren't crazy to do what they're gonna do. It's logical.
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.....I am just not sure THIS CLASS is the next coming of QB royalty.
Outside of Lawrence....who has been tauted for years....as the next Elway etc....so I get it...still not a given. The kid played with an NFL roster vs college kids...but I can understand him going 1
all the others...seems to be manifasations in a covid riddled year....
call me skeptical....
Does anyone believe there are 6 franchise QBs in this draft? 5? 4?
See my comment to Eric above; but if you wait until you get a shot at a great prospect you could end up waiting forever!!
I think the new scoring league has magnified the importance of the QB position abit.
That isn't Parsons' best quality
I like some of things I see....feel he is a tick slow to decide that must be solved.
Very important year.
I don't want to have to worry about a 1st round pick, enough with that already, we had it with Flowers, Apple, Baker, etc. time to move on from that. get a football player who is football 100% of the time, loves the game, is a great kid, great athlete, and has zero issues off the field...with our 1st round pick we need a guy like that if we want to become the team we wanna be
But when they send him after the QB....the QB always gets hit very hard. He is a missile... lightning quick and strong.
He has biggest hands...strong heavy paws.... powerful.... He is bigger and faster then the Georgia kid that plays edge.
Micah Parsons:
6ft 3", 246lbs, 11" hands / 4.39 40 / 19 bench / 10-6 broad
2019 stats: 13 games, 109 tackles (52 solo), 5 sacks, 14.0 tackles for loss, 4 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery, 5 passes defensed (opted out of 2020 season)
Azeez Ojulari:
6ft 2", 249lbs, 10.5" hands / 4.62 40 / 26 bench / 10-7 broad
2020 stats: 10 games, 31 tackles (22 solo), 9.5 sacks, 12.5 tackles for loss, 4 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery, 2 passes defensed
Parsons says he needs people to keep him in line
I'd want Paye on my team, not Parsons
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
gidie I agree. I'm probably higher on Darnold than most. I think out of NY and the Jets to the Panthers could be a good move for him. But I think Jones has shown as much if not more than Darnold and has just as good a chance of being a franchise QB as Darnold. Time will tell. The injuries and Mono certainly hasn't helped Darnold's career and his ghost comment caught on TV but I still think the talent is there. I doubt the Giants would have given up on him this quick. But other than Lawrence I'm not sure I'd take any of the other QB's over Jones or Darnold.
The Jets missed bad on Darnold and missed even worse on Gase? Guess what. They're positioned pretty nicely right now only 3 years later. Could history repeat itself and see them bottom out? Sure. But their new GM has them in position to empty the chamber and make a run if they just get one draft pick right. It's a tough one to get right for sure but the upside is tremendous when you do.
Good post.
And same goes for what he can and can not do....
I just think it is odd.... That the "noise" coming out of the Giants seems to be distancing themselves from Parson.
....it could be true concerns.
Or
It could be smoke....assuring them of falling to him.
Agree and would good if he were the pick.
If Parsons is the pick then I would assume Judge / Sean Spencer used their Penn State connections to eliminate any behavioral concerns.
he is down right explosive when you watch him but I am concerned that his character issues seem to be an issue
FWIW my cousin played basketball at Penn State and his two closest friends (and roommates) are football players and they really don't like Parsons. Apparently most of the team really dislikes him. From what he told me, they all feel he's an arrogant, selfish prick.
Like I said though, take it FWIW - it's not some huge red flag or anything so maybe it's not worth much. Plus maybe he just was (or is) immature and will grow out of it in the NFL being around older, accomplished guys where he's not the star of the show.
I like him...I follow Penn St....he is a stud....not choir boy.
I think you're right.
I think that two players the Giants could be staring at with pick #11 are D. Smith and K. Paye.
I like them both - but I think BBI overates D. Smith a tad and underates K. Paye a lot.
Outside of Lawrence....who has been tauted for years....as the next Elway etc....so I get it...still not a given. The kid played with an NFL roster vs college kids...but I can understand him going 1
all the others...seems to be manifasations in a covid riddled year....
call me skeptical....
Does anyone believe there are 6 franchise QBs in this draft? 5? 4?
I believe the trend is going to continue to be draft a QB with a high pick, give him 3 years, and he's either the guy or the team goes shopping again. At least until sometime in the CBA or rules changes.
The NFL is all about parity, and the QB is the position that can give one team a relatively large advantage over another.
I'm a big Formula 1 fan, and teams spend millions on parts development trying to find .001 seconds over their competition. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but they always keep upgrading the cars. In the NFL getting the right QB is like getting a .010 second upgrade, and teams are going to keep trying until they get that
I like him...I follow Penn St....he is a stud....not choir boy.
George, yep...fair enough. he's an immense talent that's for sure
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Paye will be.
I think you're right.
I think that two players the Giants could be staring at with pick #11 are D. Smith and K. Paye.
I like them both - but I think BBI overates D. Smith a tad and underates K. Paye a lot.
I'm trying to get a read on the two Miami prospects, and if they're ahead of Ojulari. Suspect they are.
Outside of Lawrence....who has been tauted for years....as the next Elway etc....so I get it...still not a given. The kid played with an NFL roster vs college kids...but I can understand him going 1
FWIW, Fields and Lawrence battled for the top spot as the BEST overall recruit in the 2018 class. Depending on the recruiting service, one or the other ended up #1. So Fields has had top pedigree since high school as well and has been touted for a long time. He just got the short end of the stick at Georgia because Smart ended up having too much loyalty to the overrated Jake Fromm. And after he arrived at Ohio State, Fields clearly proved Smart made the wrong move.
Outside of being a three inches taller, there is NOTHING Lawrence can do on the football field that Fields can't do.
And he absolutely proved it when he completely outplayed Lawrence in the semis this year in the F4. It wasn't particularly close who the best QB was on the field that night.
So it's a bit misleading to act like only Lawrence has been this big prize.
Fair or not....Having too good a team around you....hurts QBs.
As I would look pretty good with a 5min clean pocket...and NFL receivers running away from future accountants.
I can understand the value that Chase and Smith bring and would not be upset at either of these picks. While not sexy, Sewell and Slater would not be terrible picks either as they should be good long term investments for this team. Pitts and Waddle scare me as higher risk propositions this high in the draft. And this year's crop of edge defenders are simply not good value at eleven.
Assuming four or five quarterbacks are taken in the top ten, the Giants are assured of getting one of these seven players - Parsons, Surtain, Horn, Chase, Smith, Sewell or Slater. There is absolutely no reason to take any other player at eleven. If they can trade back and get additional day two pick(s) to select an edge rusher or other player, then so be it.
But the Giants need to draft the best available talent this year on day one and day two. Please hold off on solving needs until day three and UDFA when there will be plenty of options available to do so.
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Eric, this is going to sound sarcastic but its not. Given the Jets history drafting and grooming quarterbacks its probably somewhere around 95% certain we'll be having this conversation in 2024.
I also don't get the excitement about drafting a guy who can make all these "splash" throws when they already had someone in the building that could do the same thing. A big part of it is on the player, but a portion is on the franchise to develop them and the Jets just can't do that.
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Paye will be.
I think you're right.
I think that two players the Giants could be staring at with pick #11 are D. Smith and K. Paye.
I like them both - but I think BBI overates D. Smith a tad and underates K. Paye a lot.
Completely agree.
BBI also overrates "getting home," with regards to prospects and sacks. Paye was on a bad defense and led in pressures by over 300% vs. UMs #2 guy.
I still like Parsons but have warmed to Paye. My concern with him is fit. If JJ and Graham make the pick, I'mm all in.
Character issues have unequivocally already been adjudicated by Judge - especially given Barkley connection with James Franklin and other coaching connections. Parsons is either the top defender on the Giants board right now or off the board completely.
And same goes for what he can and can not do....
I just think it is odd.... That the "noise" coming out of the Giants seems to be distancing themselves from Parson.
....it could be true concerns.
Or
It could be smoke....assuring them of falling to him.
That is why I will be fine if they either pick or pass on Parsons. They know him well. Much better than BBI does. I don't think they will pick him if they think he will be a problem.
Paye is risky at eleven in the draft, not as an NFL player. No problem trading back. Agree that Parson's character issues are a potential risk, but putting those aside, his talent and leadership currently dwarf that of Paye. So Parsons to me has a much higher floor than Paye. Certainly, Paye might have a very high ceiling in terms of potential, but that to me is the definition of a late first rounder.
To me, there are better values to be had from numerous second round LB/Edge guys than even trading back and taking Paye late in the first round. Guys like Nick Bolton, Zaven Collins, Jason Oweh and Joe Tryon to name a few.
Caleb Farley shouldn’t be on the Giants’ draft board. Have you looked at his injury history? I doubt his body is built to play football.
JonC’s comments about Parsons are really interesting. I took the insider posts here to mean that Parson’s fight with his teammate was just the tip of the iceberg and continue to believe he isn’t on the Giants board. But maybe the team is continuing to look at PSU tape?
Completely agree.
BBI also overrates "getting home," with regards to prospects and sacks. Paye was on a bad defense and led in pressures by over 300% vs. UMs #2 guy.
Do you know what Paye is? A player with warning track power. He doesn't hit enough home runs for his position. He's Mr. Almost.
We should want players who have shown an ability to finish plays and get the QB to the ground with the football. Do you want to watch a game and say, "Wow, Paye almost got Dak down! What a play!"
This guy is the pick if he is there.
He played a ton of Edge rusher in High School and was recruited to play that for PSU but was moved to LB out of need. He used to also be a RB in high school so he has ball skills.
Paye is a thick, strong guy that IMO does not fit our Edge requirement. Ojulari is a better fit for Edge, but Parsons could do everything including cover and run and chase.
NYG will have enough info on him and has a direct connection with Coach Chaos. If he is there he should be the pick.
This guy is the pick if he is there.
He played a ton of Edge rusher in High School and was recruited to play that for PSU but was moved to LB out of need. He used to also be a RB in high school so he has ball skills.
Paye is a thick, strong guy that IMO does not fit our Edge requirement. Ojulari is a better fit for Edge, but Parsons could do everything including cover and run and chase.
NYG will have enough info on him and has a direct connection with Coach Chaos. If he is there he should be the pick.
no offense, but there are tons of athletes like Parsons who enter the draft every year. this isn't some unicorn type prospect. and there are legit concerns with him. he's not a "he's the pick if he's there" type of guy IMV
NYG will have enough info on him and has a direct connection with Coach Chaos. If he is there he should be the pick.
Right, and Rico and some other asshats have said it's a "no" on Parsons. so...what does that tell you? just because we have a connection doesn't mean we are automatically drafting the guy, in fact if we don't draft him, that actually tells you what we need to know about Parsons
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He is prototypical size with sub 4.4 speed, 6.89 3 cone.
This guy is the pick if he is there.
He played a ton of Edge rusher in High School and was recruited to play that for PSU but was moved to LB out of need. He used to also be a RB in high school so he has ball skills.
Paye is a thick, strong guy that IMO does not fit our Edge requirement. Ojulari is a better fit for Edge, but Parsons could do everything including cover and run and chase.
NYG will have enough info on him and has a direct connection with Coach Chaos. If he is there he should be the pick.
no offense, but there are tons of athletes like Parsons who enter the draft every year. this isn't some unicorn type prospect. and there are legit concerns with him. he's not a "he's the pick if he's there" type of guy IMV
If you guys truly believe pro day numbers as being the same as what the numbers would be at the combine, idk what to tell you. This is the fastest class in history by far due to no combine. Think about it. Not saying Parsons is slow but his game speed from tape did not show a sub 4.4 speed.
THose pro day numbers should merely be viewed as suggestions.
Nobody is a finished product coming out of college, sometimes it takes a year or two. But just because Paye didn't have great sack numbers in college, doesn't mean it's going to stay that way.
Look at Leonard Williams at USC - his sack numbers and TFL weren't anything special. And yet, he went 6th overall and was regarded as the best defensive prospect. It's about coaching and potential.
THe draft is awesome.
Just like all of you I am consuming everything I can about the draft. Watching, reading and listening. The mocks have reached the point of idiocy. As FMiC has pointed out, BBI’s posters are issuing versions of their mocks as if anyone fucking cares if they are 5.0 or 3.0 or any fucking point “o” .
Maddening.
I am down to coveting one of:
Smith
Waddle
Chase
Parsons
Surtain
Pitts
Sewell
My not unhappy with list includes:
Slater
Farley
Horn
Surtain
The edges have too many warts for 11 and NYG doesn’t trade back until they prove otherwise. I would only take Sewell if all the others in that group are gone. I have watched sooo many mocks. I have done mocks. There is great OL value at the top of the second round in every single one. Not hyperbole.
The QB thing isn’t this year. It is every year.
Everyone wants the next Mahomes and no one knows who that is. You just don’t. Every time a QB goes up a level of competition, no matter how successful the QB was before, they could bust.
Until a QB takes regular season NFL snaps, NONE OF US KNOW SHIT!
The NFL is such a different level of pressure and you don’t know how a person is going to handle it until the bullets are flying live. Lawrence, physically has everything and is more likely to bust than not. If I had to have one trait in a NFL QB it would be confidence. Once it’s lost, they are done. The players must have confidence in the QB and you cannot inspire that without confidence in one’s self. Mac Jones might be the best professional QB in this draft.
Tom Brady was passed on over 150 times in the draft. Mahomes did not go number one and he is the best player in the league. Teams that need a QB, overdraft them until they find one.
BECAUSE YOU NEED ONE TO COMPETE YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT.
Also GM’s
BBI has this notion that a GM does things in a vacuum. I think all NFL head coaches have significant input on the draft and free agency. We want to flog DG for everything move he made but I think the biggest criticism should be his choice of Shurmur. “Adult” was not sufficient criteria for a head coach. If I smash him for Shurmur I have to give him credit for Judge.
I want them to draft a player at 11 that the our opponents must account for with more than one player. Offense, defense, I don’t care. Once you have more than 1 on a unit, things get difficult for the opposing unit.
Players like AB and OBJ, whom we refer to as "divas", suffer from "team character" flaws. While their personal character may or may not be above reproach, they are indeed cancers that have to be avoided.
It is unclear to me at this point who Micah Parsons is. I am certain though that the Judge/Gettleman brain trust has figured this out and made their determination long ago.
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He is prototypical size with sub 4.4 speed, 6.89 3 cone.
This guy is the pick if he is there.
He played a ton of Edge rusher in High School and was recruited to play that for PSU but was moved to LB out of need. He used to also be a RB in high school so he has ball skills.
Paye is a thick, strong guy that IMO does not fit our Edge requirement. Ojulari is a better fit for Edge, but Parsons could do everything including cover and run and chase.
NYG will have enough info on him and has a direct connection with Coach Chaos. If he is there he should be the pick.
no offense, but there are tons of athletes like Parsons who enter the draft every year. this isn't some unicorn type prospect. and there are legit concerns with him. he's not a "he's the pick if he's there" type of guy IMV
Ok fine, Throw out everything I said and go watch the game video of the 2019 Cotton Bowl. The announcers thought there we 4 Micah Parsons on the field. He was MVP of the game. You have to keep in mind he has only played off ball LB for 2 years. His speed is evident. He fits our system way better than Paye.
If you don't like him that is fine. Rico has said he is off our board. Peppers has said that Coach Chaos has talked with Parsons. I am saying that kids make mistakes when they are 17-18. He is the best defensive player in the draft. We will be lucky if he is even available at pick 11. He should go top 5 but all these teams are drooling over QB's so he will drop a little.
I am not saying he is the next LT but I will remind you that when we drafted LT in 1981. we already had Brad Van Pelt, Harry Carson and Brian Kelly at LB. Nobody thought we needed LT. In fact, New Orleans passed on him for George Rodgers which I think most people were surprised.
Hmm one of the new guilty until proven innocent crowd...teams, Teammates, people and acquaintances know if there is a problem and I believe NFL teams will learn about bad issues.
Apologies ... but I live on planet earth and speak only English. I have no idea what this means,
LT wanted to kick your fucking ass every single play. You hit them, they hit back. When the other team's D make's a play the dogs want to bite back harder. I think players with that kind of "dog" brush up against "it" in society sometimes. It is a delicate balance to control. Ray Lewis was similar in mindset. Ray is my Parsons comp.
Okay, if this is the concern, I get it ... but he’s been away from the structure for almost a year and showed up ready to go on his pro day. I’m good with what JJ decides.
hey, if we draft him, i hope he becomes the next patrick willis
LT wanted to kick your fucking ass every single play. You hit them, they hit back. When the other team's D make's a play the dogs want to bite back harder. I think players with that kind of "dog" brush up against "it" in society sometimes. It is a delicate balance to control. Ray Lewis was similar in mindset. Ray is my Parsons comp.
Yes and I think that is what our defense is missing. We have a very good D Line, Martinez, a deep and talented secondary. This is why Edge rushers are being mocked to us which I totally get. Parsons can play inside or outside. He is like Hightower in New England or even Van Noy.
He is an intense player. He could elevate an improving defense.
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has some junk yard dog in him. I do like me a bit of that in my defensive players. I think the "dog" in LT is what made him great.
LT wanted to kick your fucking ass every single play. You hit them, they hit back. When the other team's D make's a play the dogs want to bite back harder. I think players with that kind of "dog" brush up against "it" in society sometimes. It is a delicate balance to control. Ray Lewis was similar in mindset. Ray is my Parsons comp.
Yes and I think that is what our defense is missing. We have a very good D Line, Martinez, a deep and talented secondary. This is why Edge rushers are being mocked to us which I totally get. Parsons can play inside or outside. He is like Hightower in New England or even Van Noy.
He is an intense player. He could elevate an improving defense.
The longer the draft season goes the more the queations pile up and for Parsons they have been piling up for 15 months.
I dont want to take a risk at 11. We are not in a strong enough position to absorb a mistake at 11. if 5 qbs go in the top 10 then we are picking from the 4 pass catchers, Surtain or Sewell. If there is a QB left the pick neess to be moved
Nobody is a finished product coming out of college, sometimes it takes a year or two. But just because Paye didn't have great sack numbers in college, doesn't mean it's going to stay that way.
Agree strongly with this. Look at guys like Chandler Jones, Cam Jordan or even Joey Bosa who had 5 sacks in 12 games his last year of college.
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they said the same thing about Rashan Gary. "he doesn't get there enough" and yet he was one of the highest graded edge players in the entire league from week 10 and beyond last year, he was getting to the QB at an alarming rate
Nobody is a finished product coming out of college, sometimes it takes a year or two. But just because Paye didn't have great sack numbers in college, doesn't mean it's going to stay that way.
Agree strongly with this. Look at guys like Chandler Jones, Cam Jordan or even Joey Bosa who had 5 sacks in 12 games his last year of college.
Maybe just a parinod feeling but this regime has known who it was picking
before the draft each of the last 3 years.
The point is sacks don't tell the whole story. Paye had 6.5 sacks in 2019 in 12 games. Over 15 games that's 8 sacks which is pretty darn good given how he was used. Hell, he had 29 pressures in 4 games this year. There aren't too many examples of guys who racked up pressures like that whose sack numbers didn't catch up. This isn't some incredibly raw prospect but one that was misused. Bosa didn't play inside at all in the year he had 13.5 sacks but he did a good amount during his junior year.
[quote] that the Giants have already earmarked their guy and arent worried about him being drafted before they pick.
Maybe just a parinod feeling but this regime has known who it was picking
before the draft each of the last 3 years. [/quot
They might have,but this regime is only in it's second year.Judge is the guy pulling the strings,not Gettleman. Last year's draft had a whole different feel to it & I think we'll see the Judge influence again this draft!
i'm with ya, just get me to thursday night with a pie and some cold ones
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Bosa had 13.5 sacks in 2014. Where is that collegiate production from Paye? I will wait.
The point is sacks don't tell the whole story. Paye had 6.5 sacks in 2019 in 12 games. Over 15 games that's 8 sacks which is pretty darn good given how he was used. Hell, he had 29 pressures in 4 games this year. There aren't too many examples of guys who racked up pressures like that whose sack numbers didn't catch up. This isn't some incredibly raw prospect but one that was misused. Bosa didn't play inside at all in the year he had 13.5 sacks but he did a good amount during his junior year.
Insane Edge Rusher: Kwity Paye - ( New Window )
interesting...perhaps it's Smith and Chase for WR at 11 in that case...which is fine. i still like Waddle a lot though
Waddle will be a better PRO than many are projecting.
that sounds good to me
Someone going to a get good Value Pick.
Check out the Iowa game where he lined up against Alaric Jackson who is likely a mid round pick this year.
One NFL executive --
How can you not be excited about this kind of talent and player. We need a maniac.
You would have to add Ojulari to that list if you use that criteria.
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Completely agree.
BBI also overrates "getting home," with regards to prospects and sacks. Paye was on a bad defense and led in pressures by over 300% vs. UMs #2 guy.
Do you know what Paye is? A player with warning track power. He doesn't hit enough home runs for his position. He's Mr. Almost.
We should want players who have shown an ability to finish plays and get the QB to the ground with the football. Do you want to watch a game and say, "Wow, Paye almost got Dak down! What a play!"
I'd be pleased to say that "...that pressure on Dak forced a 4 and out and now the Giants can simply run out the clock."
Oh course we want the QB on the ground, but once again, football is a team sport. It's not baseball, golf or tennis. Individual statistics are not what make the man.
I'm not even selling Paye, I'm recognizing that fans have a hard time looking past numbers.
The Giants are distancing themselves from Parson.....which I feel is odd.
Who goes out of their way to distance?
I know Coach Chaos and Micah are close.....
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It's an equalizer, an elite QB and coaching are the only things that can mask a mediocre roster and connecting on a rookie QB is a cheat code on the cap.
The Jets are absolutely doing the right thing with Darnold/Wilson and it has just as much to do with the contract than the players. Darnold may turn it around although the odds are dwindling for him. Even if he does? You're paying him a mega contract in 2 years time while you are still trying to build the roster around him. Where is the upside? As of right now, you have a brand new coaching staff and are sitting at a spot with a great QB prospect that does not require a trade up. Roll the dice with Wilson and if you hit? You've got him locked in for 4-5 years at a discount with a bevvy of picks and a full chamber in cap money to spend.
Exactly. The Jets aren't crazy to do what they're gonna do. It's logical.
+2.
I still think it's Smith or Paye in that order, with the slight possibility of a trade down.
A team can take every precaution to avoid a bust and still select a bust. I think for Judge the deciding factor after sifting through all the films, measurables, stats etc it will be the player who appears the most coachable team player. I would think Judge would be able to gauge this of Parsons and others by meeting and speaking to them.
Teams can trade draft picks or wins in order to move up in the draft and the Giants have been aggressively trading wins. Personally I prefer trading picks if you have a team has a definitive target.
A team can take every precaution to avoid a bust and still select a bust. I think for Judge the deciding factor after sifting through all the films, measurables, stats etc it will be the player who appears the most coachable team player. I would think Judge would be able to gauge this of Parsons and others by meeting and speaking to them.
Teams can trade draft picks or wins in order to move up in the draft and the Giants have been aggressively trading wins. Personally I prefer trading picks if you have a team has a definitive target.
The Giants didn’t trade to get Jones. The earned the 6th pick. They traded OBJ for Peppers a 1st and 3rd round pick which turned out to be Dex Lawrence and O Ximines.
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
They obviously don’t think Wilson is a lesser talent. Darnold isn’t good he will be at best average in Carolina.