Is it me or has the QB draft market gone crazy? Unless this is the best all time QB class…. some teams are making very large mistakes.
Sirius NFL radio was praising SF????? Giving up 2 extra 1st and 3rd for the 3rd QB taken in the draft…. what am I missing? Now, there is talk of Washington giving up all their draft picks for the 4th/5th QB……lets be thankful.
I have no idea yet if Daniel Jones will be the Giants franchise QB…but as a prospect…. he is as good or better than most of these guys. Kudos to the Chargers, Giants and even Miami to find their young QBs without this frenzy.
Speaking of Daniel Jones, I am all for adding targets for Jones and more OL help and this is a great draft for both WRs and OL. if its me.... in the 1st RD…
What qualifies an Edge? Or better yet, what makes a DE or OLB an edge? Do they just specialize in rushing the passer? I do not think the Giants are looking for a DE “Edge” …. their DEs are Williams and Lawrence.
So for the Giants, it is an OLB who rushes the passer…but ideally one that does more then that…. I think I understand what Graham defense wants to do…..confuse, cover and attack. We keep hearing “Multiple”.
If qualified as such….imo, the best EDGE in this class and the only “blue chip” defensive player is Micah Parsons. I can not put him in the LT class…..but this guy is an animal. I know…. he has anger issue (but what is wrong with that? So did LT). I might be reading this all wrong…..but here is my thought.
Micah would not reach the Giants at 11 ( the same as his hand size)….if not for mysterious “character issues” and Opt-out in my opinion. My understanding it was a hazing incident that went too far…..and if you understand Penn St these days…..it is hyper-sensitive to any negative news (Understandably) and he opted out because it and unfortunately, the Penn St, defense went with him.
He might be a handful as Coach Chaos said…but well worth it. I believe Parson could be the final piece to that defense……bringing back the glory days.
The Giants sent a large contingent to Penn St…word leaked out, it’s for “Oweh, not Parsons”. Come on? Really….. felt like smoke.
I might be totally off base…..it would not surprise me one bit if the Giants draft Micah Parson. BBI and the Giants fans will fall in love with his game. ILB, OLB or Edge, he will fit anywhere, just like Graham likes 😊.
I know many want a TOP WR or OL…..and I do not claim to be an expert but there are plenty of interesting players throughout draft that can be had. I wouldn’t be surprised a TE get chosen earlier, as that pool dries up much quicker.
I love what Sy brings to BBI and Thank you. For additional information and cross reference, the Beast by Dane Brugler in the Athletic is an amazing draft guide.
Surtain wouldn't be a sexy pick, but the secondary would be one of, if not the best in the NFL if he pans out.
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not sure he'll be there, or how the Giants view him and the red flags chatter. But, he's the top defensive prospect in the draft and agree he would be a crown jewel pick. Surtain right behind him.
Surtain wouldn't be a sexy pick, but the secondary would be one of, if not the best in the NFL if he pans out.
I'd pick him or Horn before Edge at #11, even Farley if they're high on him. The top CBs are that good.
One thing that might be happening is that teams recognise it's a high risk choice selecting a quarterback, but the rewards of getting the right one are so high they don't want to miss out, hence the frenzy. We really don't know how Justin Fields will pan out in the NFL, but the upside is definitely huge with him, so whereas Mahomes and Watson went #10 and #12, now teams are jumping up to take him, so he goes top five whereas five years ago he might have gone between #8 and #18.
4QBs/Pitts/Sewell/Chase - add Parsons - that is 8
With Pitts long gone by 9, both Den/Dal will not be picking WR. So that would leave both Smith/Waddle there.
If there are only 3 QBs, taken, then there would be a slight possibility that both Parsons/Smith are gone.
If one of the 4-8 slots wanted to go OLine not Sewell, then they would be nuts not to move to 11 and get their guy (with Den/Dal needing to go Defense).
Gonna be fun :)
I get it....but do not see either being the Giants choice. the Giants are in great shape in their backfield.
they need a roaming missile in the front 7.
Now these edge players come in all shapes and sizes. Yes, some are great pass rushers. Some are great at setting an edge. Some can do both. Some can stand up. Some have their hand in the turf.
All my opinion.
I get it....but do not see either being the Giants choice. the Giants are in great shape in their backfield.
they need a roaming missile in the front 7.
Draft the best player, not position.
All my opinion.
We were pretty good last year on defense. Graham schemes well and rotates in guys who bring energy, even if they aren't the stud edges. I think they would prefer to have a top line edge guy, but I would guess that they could live with going by scheme if the margin of improvement was greater at another position.
NFL Draft 2021: Why Penn State Football’s Micah Parsons eyes NY Giants - ( New Window )
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does not need an "ER/Pass Rush" type player. He just needs playmakers. He is brilliant in his designs and can scheme a pass rush. Keeping the QB from escaping the pocket and manufacturing a play is what the Giants need - no more 5 to 7 second scrambles allowing WRs to come free. Keep the QB bottled and converge.
All my opinion.
We were pretty good last year on defense. Graham schemes well and rotates in guys who bring energy, even if they aren't the stud edges. I think they would prefer to have a top line edge guy, but I would guess that they could live with going by scheme if the margin of improvement was greater at another position.
I do not disagree.
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smart leader.....certainly a good addition....and just saw Horn selected by GBN.
I get it....but do not see either being the Giants choice. the Giants are in great shape in their backfield.
they need a roaming missile in the front 7.
Draft the best player, not position.
If it's Parsons, then I agree. But, the CB prospects are better than the Edge prospects.
All my opinion.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here: I watched quarterbacks like Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield pick the Giants apart from the pocket when the Giants were playing contain. If the edge and defensive tackles aren’t getting in the quarterback’s face because they’re keeping themselves out of the pocket, how can the defensive backs hope to keep the receivers covered?
And if recent history is any guide, these franchises have been making the same mistake regarding quarterbacks.
Time frame for developing a team has shrunken drastically. Teams seem to be panicking over making sure they get a "franchise" QB.
The problem with this thinking is very few of these guys are ending up being any good.
Surtain is going to the cowboys if not Parsons
Horn is good
I like Payne too
any one of these four would make me very happy -- Parsons is a notch up on raw talent imo
The 49ers are over Jimmy G (and Mullens) and imo kind of rightfully so. Jimmy G gets hurt a lot and is very inconsistent. This is likely the highest they will be. Not saying I like their move just that I understand the logic.
Matt Ryan is turning 36.
So the first team you get to not in the QB market is Cincy/Burrow at 5.
Then behind them Carolina is in year 2 with a young coach/new regime. They screwed up not taking a QB last year. The Pats and Broncos are both looking as well.
It's just one of those years where supply and demand are both up. Just unlucky it wasn't last year when both DET and NYG had their picks for sale and couldn't find any takers. Bet a lot of what we are seeing this year is a reaction to so many having not seized the chance to move up for Herbert when they had it.
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
The 49ers are over Jimmy G (and Mullens) and imo kind of rightfully so. Jimmy G gets hurt a lot and is very inconsistent. This is likely the highest they will be. Not saying I like their move just that I understand the logic.
Matt Ryan is turning 36.
So the first team you get to not in the QB market is Cincy/Burrow at 5.
Then behind them Carolina is in year 2 with a young coach/new regime. They screwed up not taking a QB last year. The Pats and Broncos are both looking as well.
It's just one of those years where supply and demand are both up. Just unlucky it wasn't last year when both DET and NYG had their picks for sale and couldn't find any takers. Bet a lot of what we are seeing this year is a reaction to so many having not seized the chance to move up for Herbert when they had it.
Sure. But you can't make a player into something he is not.
And the fans get caught up in this BS too. Look at the QBs this board went crazy over in recent drafts who have ended up being complete garbage.
If it wasn't for the Dolphin staff....ai think could have played hard ball for Tua.
And if recent history is any guide, these franchises have been making the same mistake regarding quarterbacks.
Time frame for developing a team has shrunken drastically. Teams seem to be panicking over making sure they get a "franchise" QB.
The problem with this thinking is very few of these guys are ending up being any good.
Eric, George et al: Here's why! The NFL is a passing league. Period. And to be a consistent winner you have to have a great QB. And yeah the likelihood of getting a good one is pretty small, but if you do find your guy you're looking at 10-15 years winning 10-12-13 games, getting home field playoff games and going deep into the playoffs year in, year out. On the other hand, you can have all the all-pros you want at other positions but if you don't have that great QB you're going spend the next 10-15 years scrambling to win 8-9-10 games and hoping you squeak into the playoffs.
In fact, you can probably make the case, given the incredibly disproportionate importance of the position, that team's should be using a high pick on a QB every year even when they have a good one!
But decided to trade Darnold instead....for supposedly Zach Wilson...who is he?
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
I have a (queasy) feeling that the love will fade as the draft comes on and half the QB's will drop, leaving us with some unappetizing options at #11.
But is this '94....with Elway, Montana etc.....if not....there are going to be plenty of un-employed NFL executives and coaches because of it.
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
But the ghosts, the ghosts! :)
And if that happens, a blue-chip talent is better than a red-chip defender. No matter the position.
1) Jax Lawrence
2) NYJ QB
3) SF QB
4) Atl - one of QB/Pitts/Chase
5) Cin one of Pitts/Sewell
6) Mia one of Pitts/Chase
7) Det
8) Car
9) Den - CB since NYG also have D/CB need, cannot move out of 9
10) Dal - CB since NYG also have CB need, cannot move out of 10
It should not matter if Atl trades out of the 4 hole to a QB need team or not, its pretty certain the the top six/seven will consist of 3QBs/Pitts/Chase/Sewell or 4QBs/Pitts/Sewell/Chase.
The Det/Car picks will determine the NYG fate.
My guess is NYG stays at 11 and both Smith and Parsons will be there and they take Smith, leaving edge to next pick with a small move up. I think there will be 4 QBs taken before 11 and Waddle not running take him out of the picture.
Parsons is the type of LB our franchise has needed for decades.
The Jets are absolutely doing the right thing with Darnold/Wilson and it has just as much to do with the contract than the players. Darnold may turn it around although the odds are dwindling for him. Even if he does? You're paying him a mega contract in 2 years time while you are still trying to build the roster around him. Where is the upside? As of right now, you have a brand new coaching staff and are sitting at a spot with a great QB prospect that does not require a trade up. Roll the dice with Wilson and if you hit? You've got him locked in for 4-5 years at a discount with a bevvy of picks and a full chamber in cap money to spend.
both Jones and Darnold is/were better prospects than every one them except Lawrence
the Jets are crazy to trade Sam and take one of those QBs -- just shows you how bad that FO really is -- while I am not a Darnold fan - I think you try to surround him with the tools he needs and make it work over bringing in a QB that is a lesser talent
I have a (queasy) feeling that the love will fade as the draft comes on and half the QB's will drop, leaving us with some unappetizing options at #11.
Well the love can’t fade too much, the Jests don’t have a pro QB on their roster, SF traded their future for something, and Matty Ryan is still 36. Maybe the Broncos give Lock another year and Bridgewater lands somewhere but NE, Pitt and the Skins all need QBs too... and then there’s the Texans, who unfortunately for them have no draft capital.
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The Jags and Jets have new coaches and needed new QBs and are picking 1/2.
The 49ers are over Jimmy G (and Mullens) and imo kind of rightfully so. Jimmy G gets hurt a lot and is very inconsistent. This is likely the highest they will be. Not saying I like their move just that I understand the logic.
Matt Ryan is turning 36.
So the first team you get to not in the QB market is Cincy/Burrow at 5.
Then behind them Carolina is in year 2 with a young coach/new regime. They screwed up not taking a QB last year. The Pats and Broncos are both looking as well.
It's just one of those years where supply and demand are both up. Just unlucky it wasn't last year when both DET and NYG had their picks for sale and couldn't find any takers. Bet a lot of what we are seeing this year is a reaction to so many having not seized the chance to move up for Herbert when they had it.
Sure. But you can't make a player into something he is not.
And the fans get caught up in this BS too. Look at the QBs this board went crazy over in recent drafts who have ended up being complete garbage.
No disagreement there at all. Coaches/GMs generally get 1 chance to pick a QB at most and if they miss they are out of their jobs.
It also cuts the other way though (i.e. if Matt Patricia and Quinn picked Herbert last year and traded Stafford then they'd still have jobs).
The 49ers regime may not seem like it's on the hot seat, but another lackluster year from Garapolo and they would have been. In their division they are at a deficiency against Wilson/Murray, and probably Stafford too. Had they stuck with JG I think the hot seat is exactly where they would have found themselves at this time next year. This was an aggressive pre-emptive strike and while obviously we'd expect that they are doing it because they do in fact love one of these QBs, for practical purposes if it doesn't work out their org leadership may not end up in all that different of a position 2 years from now than they would have if they kept JG.
Far more than 50% (which is basically the bust rate for first round QB's).
FWIW my cousin played basketball at Penn State and his two closest friends (and roommates) are football players and they really don't like Parsons. Apparently most of the team really dislikes him. From what he told me, they all feel he's an arrogant, selfish prick.
Like I said though, take it FWIW - it's not some huge red flag or anything so maybe it's not worth much. Plus maybe he just was (or is) immature and will grow out of it in the NFL being around older, accomplished guys where he's not the star of the show.
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does not need an "ER/Pass Rush" type player. He just needs playmakers. He is brilliant in his designs and can scheme a pass rush. Keeping the QB from escaping the pocket and manufacturing a play is what the Giants need - no more 5 to 7 second scrambles allowing WRs to come free. Keep the QB bottled and converge.
All my opinion.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here: I watched quarterbacks like Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield pick the Giants apart from the pocket when the Giants were playing contain. If the edge and defensive tackles aren’t getting in the quarterback’s face because they’re keeping themselves out of the pocket, how can the defensive backs hope to keep the receivers covered?
Because Murray and Mayfield broke contain? You proved my point. They did not make their plays from the pocket very often. They made their plays scrambling. When contained, like they did for the most part against Russell Wilson, shortish QBs have trouble seeing open players.
The Giants have added some players that are better getting to the QB than what they had last year(i.e., Anderson and Odenigbo).
I am not "agin" a pass rush specialist, but question if that would be a significant upgrade to what they have now from the #11 slot.
We would all love an Osi Umenyoura type with a bit better run defense. Is that player there?
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In comment 15218447 section125 said:
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does not need an "ER/Pass Rush" type player. He just needs playmakers. He is brilliant in his designs and can scheme a pass rush. Keeping the QB from escaping the pocket and manufacturing a play is what the Giants need - no more 5 to 7 second scrambles allowing WRs to come free. Keep the QB bottled and converge.
All my opinion.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here: I watched quarterbacks like Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield pick the Giants apart from the pocket when the Giants were playing contain. If the edge and defensive tackles aren’t getting in the quarterback’s face because they’re keeping themselves out of the pocket, how can the defensive backs hope to keep the receivers covered?
Because Murray and Mayfield broke contain? You proved my point. They did not make their plays from the pocket very often. They made their plays scrambling. When contained, like they did for the most part against Russell Wilson, shortish QBs have trouble seeing open players.
The Giants have added some players that are better getting to the QB than what they had last year(i.e., Anderson and Odenigbo).
I am not "agin" a pass rush specialist, but question if that would be a significant upgrade to what they have now from the #11 slot.
We would all love an Osi Umenyoura type with a bit better run defense. Is that player there?
They didn't break contain. They picked us apart from the pocket.
That's why I believe at number 11 we are drafting one of the Alabama WR's not Parsons. We must surround DJ with weapons in his "prove it" year. A good OL in the second round would also add to our current unproven OL.
Just sayin!!!
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he is down right explosive when you watch him but I am concerned that his character issues seem to be an issue
FWIW my cousin played basketball at Penn State and his two closest friends (and roommates) are football players and they really don't like Parsons. Apparently most of the team really dislikes him. From what he told me, they all feel he's an arrogant, selfish prick.
Like I said though, take it FWIW - it's not some huge red flag or anything so maybe it's not worth much. Plus maybe he just was (or is) immature and will grow out of it in the NFL being around older, accomplished guys where he's not the star of the show.
I'm not doubting any of what your saying -- I have no inside info there -- I just know what I see when I'm watching him on the field
Outside of Lawrence....who has been tauted for years....as the next Elway etc....so I get it...still not a given. The kid played with an NFL roster vs college kids...but I can understand him going 1
all the others...seems to be manifasations in a covid riddled year....
call me skeptical....
Does anyone believe there are 6 franchise QBs in this draft? 5? 4?
Absolutely! Take the 5 guys this year. One will probably end up being really good; 2-3 will by JAGs and 2-3 will be busts. BUT nobody knows who the one will be! So if you don't have a good QB you want one to give yourself a 20% of getting a good one because if you don't get one your odds are 0%.
And the fact is the 5 guys this year are all pretty good prospects. Remember the two guys who have done the best the last 2-3 years so far - Josh Allen and Justin Herbert - were very similar guys to Justin Fields and Mac Jones, this year's somewhat questionable prospects, in that they were highly productive college QBs who had some red flags as far as their pro prospects went.
But when they send him after the QB....the QB always gets hit very hard. He is a missile... lightning quick and strong.
He has biggest hands...strong heavy paws.... powerful.... He is bigger and faster then the Georgia kid that plays edge.