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Ike Hilliard a good comp for Da Vonta Smith?

Jim in Forest Hills : 4/13/2021 9:08 am
I know Sy doesn't do pro comps anymore, but reading through Eric's 97 draft review, I thought there was a striking similarity between the two players.

Ike was the go to guy for Florida. Yatil Green was the bigger faster guy but in crunch time they went to Ike. He was of slender build, 6', 185lbs. He was technically proficient, especially in route running. Ike was more of a glider not a burner, smooth in his movements. Ike was tremendously productive, 25 TDs his last 2 years.

George Young said “We thought he was the most complete receiver. He can make all of the catches that you need. He can run the fade pattern, catch the ball under pressure, and his blocking is pretty good. He can make the adjustments on the poorly thrown balls. One of the things that struck me was that he was very consistent. He was Danny Wuerffel’s go-to guy at Florida, the guy he looked for in the clutch.”

Keith Jackson said "He's the best WR in college football"

Ike also ended his career on a high note, catching 3 TDs against FSU in the Sugar Bowl, winning the national championship.

Ike was taken 7th in the 1997 draft which was a thought to be a reach at the time.

Unfortunately Ike suffered a serious injury his 2nd game and needed surgery. I'm not sure he was ever the player Young had envisioned.

His career best year was 2000:
55 rec, 787 yds, 8 TDs.

He played for 11 years, 35 overall TDs.

Obviously injury aside, I think this is pretty close to how I see Smith. Do you think they are close as players?
Eric's 97 review - ( New Window )
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Ike was overdrafted  
JonC : 4/13/2021 9:23 am : link
he was smooth and nifty, but wasn't fast or gamebreaking. A good red chip talent.
I don't know why  
Grizz99 : 4/13/2021 9:24 am : link
But I used to isolate on Hillard. I walked away with the opinion that he took more plays off than anyone I've ever seen.
And of course when you make the comparison to Hillard, it is especially appropriate that his career was compromised by injury. He was 6 feet 180 or so, Smith is 6-1 and rumored to be 167 lb
if that's the comp for Smith  
bluepepper : 4/13/2021 9:25 am : link
then hello, edge rusher at pick 11.
RE: I don't know why  
section125 : 4/13/2021 9:25 am : link
In comment 15218450 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
But I used to isolate on Hillard. I walked away with the opinion that he took more plays off than anyone I've ever seen.
And of course when you make the comparison to Hillard, it is especially appropriate that his career was compromised by injury. He was 6 feet 180 or so, Smith is 6-1 and rumored to be 167 lb


Yes a spear to the back of the neck by a 215 lb safety would compromise about anyone's career.
15+ posts and no F*** Dawkins?!!?!  
giants#1 : 4/13/2021 9:31 am : link
BBI is slipping...


Don't watch a ton of CFB, but Ike was like the Giants Steve Smith. Always seemed to find some space and get open in the middle of the field, but didn't have top end athleticism, at least post-injury.
Ike was an absolute beast in college  
JoeyBigBlue : 4/13/2021 9:33 am : link
He was a great route runner and and extremely shifty. He got hurt early on in his career and wasn’t the same player. It’s a good comparison.
Steve Smith was nasty for us  
Carl in CT : 4/13/2021 9:37 am : link
Pre injury also. (For a very short time).
RE: if that's the comp for Smith  
Giantology : 4/13/2021 9:37 am : link
In comment 15218452 bluepepper said:
Quote:
then hello, edge rusher at pick 11.


It's definitely not.
Ike  
Andy in Boston : 4/13/2021 9:38 am : link
definitely not as fast....doesn't play as fast. Was more shifty, quick and ultimately a possession receiver. Smith is not a possession receiver.
Why not Chad Johnson?  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 4/13/2021 9:40 am : link
He played at the same size and weight and very well
Didn't Ike  
Andrew in Austin : 4/13/2021 9:43 am : link
have to have spinal fusion surgery after that butthead speared him in the back? That guy was as smooth as hell before that hit.
Smith is a little more explosive than Ike  
AcesUp : 4/13/2021 9:43 am : link
Although Ike would have thrived in today's game, so I don't think the comp is that far off. He was born a couple of decades too early.
RE: Why not Chad Johnson?  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/13/2021 9:44 am : link
In comment 15218484 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
He played at the same size and weight and very well


Bring on all comps, Smith is polarizing to me so I like the discussion. Ike to me, seemed like a clone of Smith including pedigree.
RE: 15+ posts and no F*** Dawkins?!!?!  
k2tampa : 4/13/2021 9:53 am : link
In comment 15218465 giants#1 said:
Quote:
BBI is slipping...


Don't watch a ton of CFB, but Ike was like the Giants Steve Smith. Always seemed to find some space and get open in the middle of the field, but didn't have top end athleticism, at least post-injury.

Chris Hudson of Jacksonville was the one that hit Hilliard in the neck. Dawkins separated his shoulder.
Smith is a better prospect  
jeff57 : 4/13/2021 9:57 am : link
.
Only polarizing aspect to Smith  
JonC : 4/13/2021 9:58 am : link
is his skinny body.
RE: Only polarizing aspect to Smith  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/13/2021 10:01 am : link
In comment 15218521 JonC said:
Quote:
is his skinny body.


My other quibble is he didn't test. 40, 3 cone, Vert. Would liked to have seen his numbers. I know the whole run in shorts deal, but I wanted to see some explosive numbers.
I think Smith will fall to us at 11, and he'll be the pick, with his  
Optimus-NY : 4/13/2021 10:05 am : link
teammate, Patrick Surtain II, going to the Cowflops 10th, the pick right before the NYG's.
Ive heard Isaac Bruce and Marvin Harrison  
blueblood : 4/13/2021 10:07 am : link
as good comps for Smith coming out of college.
RE: RE: 15+ posts and no F*** Dawkins?!!?!  
mfsd : 4/13/2021 10:08 am : link
In comment 15218508 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15218465 giants#1 said:


Quote:


BBI is slipping...


Don't watch a ton of CFB, but Ike was like the Giants Steve Smith. Always seemed to find some space and get open in the middle of the field, but didn't have top end athleticism, at least post-injury.


Chris Hudson of Jacksonville was the one that hit Hilliard in the neck. Dawkins separated his shoulder.


The other thing I remember about Ike is he’s one of the guys who got robbed by an agent who turned out to be a crook. Don’t recall if he and others were compensated for it, but I think he kept a lot less of his career earnings than he deserved.

Always a big fan of his, tough player who kept bouncing back from all the injuries.

But also agree that Smith should be better
always  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/13/2021 10:10 am : link
thought Ike played in the wrong decade in the NFL; 10 years later and I think he would have had a much better career. He played in a time when you could still jamb a receiver past the LOS. His play style would have suited the current version of the NFL much better.
I think he reminds me a lot of  
Dnew15 : 4/13/2021 10:25 am : link
Calvin Ridley
RE: Why not Chad Johnson?  
Milton : 4/13/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15218484 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
He played at the same size and weight and very well
Chad Johnson was an asshole. So the comparison ends right there.
RE: Isaac Bruce is a good comp  
Blue21 : 4/13/2021 10:37 am : link
In comment 15218424 JonC said:
Quote:
Smith had a Jedi quality about him in the college ranks, high end instincts and competitive spirit, was two steps ahead of everyone on the field around him. Smooth, catches everything, excellent route runner and after the catch he's hard to get a hand on. Blue chipper, only question on him is his skinny build.


First time for me hearing that comparison too. I like it. But wow, they better run to the podium if he's still there at 11.
RE: Ike was overdrafted  
Milton : 4/13/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15218449 JonC said:
Quote:
he was smooth and nifty, but wasn't fast or gamebreaking. A good red chip talent.
George Young would take issue with that, as he did with everyone who was surprised by the pick. I think his response was, "I beg your pardon, did you see the Sugar Bowl?"

p.s.--If the Giants hadn't taken Hilliard with the 7th overall pick they were gonna take Tiki. There was a heated argument over the two prospects in the war room that left the Tiki-supporters pissed off. Fassel tried to talk Young into trading up into the back end of round one for Tiki, but Young refused. It turned out Tiki was available in round 2. At least one of the scouts was still upset, saying "the wrong guy is geting the big bucks" or words to that effect.
Milton  
JonC : 4/13/2021 10:43 am : link
Good memory!
RE: Ike was overdrafted  
ColHowPepper : 4/13/2021 10:49 am : link
In comment 15218449 JonC said:
Quote:
he was smooth and nifty, but wasn't fast or gamebreaking. A good red chip talent.
I think this is exactly right. Ike was wiry, sinewy, and strong, a tad thicker than Smith. Athletic and twitchy, but nowhere near as quick and elusive as Smith. Both are good catchers of the ball.
RE: Why not Chad Johnson?  
bw in dc : 4/13/2021 11:05 am : link
In comment 15218484 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
He played at the same size and weight and very well


Chad Johnson was 190+ lbs.
Hilliard’s Talent  
Samiam : 4/13/2021 11:09 am : link
I think I’m remembering this right. The Giants QB, at the time, was not an accurate thrower. Hilliard had the ability to adjust to a poorly thrown ball better than other available WRs who were probably better receivers. So, that was the reason for the overdraft. In terms of comparisons to Smith. If Smith is the WR in the pros that people expect him to be, he would be several levels above Hilliard.
BTW...  
Dnew15 : 4/13/2021 11:11 am : link
I find it my duty as a Giants fan to mention how much I F'n hate Brian Dawkins - the single most overrated player in NFL history - anytime Ike Hilliard is discussed.

THat is all.
Fuck  
Carl in CT : 4/13/2021 11:18 am : link
Dawkins!!! (Sorry for the profanity) I just had too!
Hilliard is listed at 5-11 210  
LeonBright45 : 4/13/2021 11:39 am : link
When he was drafted in 97' he was more like 195, but he was solidly built and was a tough runner after the catch. Ike could post up and out position guys for the ball. He could also take a hit. I would prefer him over Smith any day of the week and they are nothing alike.

I think that maybe you're trying to justify taking Smith. It's not a good fit for us IMHO. I believe that he will get abused in the pros. I appreciate watching him against college defenses but I fear that he won't be so successful as a pro.

After Cincinnati chooses Chase at #5 and reconnects him with Joe Burrow, I'm thinking that Miami brings in one of Tua's college WRs. I would prefer that the Dolphins take Smith at #6, but if they are smart they'll choose Waddle.
My impression is that Smith is more explosive than Hilliard was, but  
Ira : 4/13/2021 11:42 am : link
Hilliard was so smooth. He was the best in the league in making a defender miss.
RE: RE: Ike was overdrafted  
Go Terps : 4/13/2021 11:43 am : link
In comment 15218633 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15218449 JonC said:


Quote:


he was smooth and nifty, but wasn't fast or gamebreaking. A good red chip talent.

George Young would take issue with that, as he did with everyone who was surprised by the pick. I think his response was, "I beg your pardon, did you see the Sugar Bowl?"

p.s.--If the Giants hadn't taken Hilliard with the 7th overall pick they were gonna take Tiki. There was a heated argument over the two prospects in the war room that left the Tiki-supporters pissed off. Fassel tried to talk Young into trading up into the back end of round one for Tiki, but Young refused. It turned out Tiki was available in round 2. At least one of the scouts was still upset, saying "the wrong guy is geting the big bucks" or words to that effect.


That's a great story.
If you want to see  
Everyone Relax : 4/13/2021 11:45 am : link
what explosiveness looks like, just watch his first catch of the National Championship game. It's an easy pitch and catch which he takes for 20 yards making the defenders look like they are standing still.
Link - ( New Window )
Quick twitch and explosive is Smith's game  
JonC : 4/13/2021 11:48 am : link
Ike was not those things, he was shifty and relied on good hands and smarts, he was more schoolyard and sneaky.
better version of Robert Woods  
ryanmkeane : 4/13/2021 11:55 am : link
would be my comp
I see a Tyreek Hill  
mdthedream : 4/13/2021 11:57 am : link
fast and very smooth.
I loved Ike  
rsjem1979 : 4/13/2021 11:58 am : link
In hindsight obviously drafted too high, but he was a tough TOUGH receiver who took a lot of punishment.

And I'll never forget the play he made in the Sugar Bowl against FSU. How his knee didn't vaporize is beyond me.
Stop and Pop - ( New Window )
RE: I loved Ike  
LeonBright45 : 4/13/2021 12:13 pm : link
In comment 15218776 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In hindsight obviously drafted too high, but he was a tough TOUGH receiver who took a lot of punishment.

And I'll never forget the play he made in the Sugar Bowl against FSU. How his knee didn't vaporize is beyond me. Stop and Pop - ( New Window )


There it is
I feel with Hilliard  
English Alaister : 4/13/2021 12:48 pm : link
We will never really know how good he could have been but I suspect not as good as Smith. Smith is jaw-droppingly good. He passes the expletive test when you first see him.
For me the comparison is Marvin Harrison  
PatersonPlank : 4/13/2021 1:13 pm : link
If we draft Smith I hope I'm right
Cedee lamb  
Tuckrule : 4/13/2021 1:34 pm : link
Marvin Harrison are good comps. I think the world of smiths talents size isn’t an issue. Some players are incredible at avoiding hits. Others are not. He seems to be the former.

Look at tiki barber. Too small too this too that. He learned to avoid a big shot by targeting shoulders of defenders upon contact. Smith has played his whole career “undersized”. It isn’t a concern.
I've got a few  
ghost718 : 4/13/2021 1:35 pm : link
Paul Richardson
Allen Iverson
Snoop Dog
RE: Ike was overdrafted  
djm : 4/13/2021 2:24 pm : link
In comment 15218449 JonC said:
Quote:
he was smooth and nifty, but wasn't fast or gamebreaking. A good red chip talent.


I always thought the neck thing was more an excuse if that's the right word. Not to knock Ike, he was a gamer and likely would have been more appreciated on a better team, but you either come back from a neck injury or you don't. He did. I don't think he lost any quickness or ability. He was just not a great WR. Still came close to getting a ring here, but not quite...
RE: I feel with Hilliard  
RCPhoenix : 4/13/2021 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15218845 English Alaister said:
Quote:
We will never really know how good he could have been but I suspect not as good as Smith. Smith is jaw-droppingly good. He passes the expletive test when you first see him.


Agreed, he was a good player but I don't remember him having the same type of explosiveness, quickness, or playmaking ability as Smith does.

As to Ike being 185 lbs - I remember seeing him in training camp his rookie year and thinking that the 185 lbs was a very generous measurement.

His comp is  
tyrik13 : 4/13/2021 6:12 pm : link
Marvin Harrison. This has been said so many times by so many people and it fits very well.
RE: RE: Ike was overdrafted  
English Alaister : 4/13/2021 6:46 pm : link
In comment 15219027 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15218449 JonC said:


Quote:


he was smooth and nifty, but wasn't fast or gamebreaking. A good red chip talent.



I always thought the neck thing was more an excuse if that's the right word. Not to knock Ike, he was a gamer and likely would have been more appreciated on a better team, but you either come back from a neck injury or you don't. He did. I don't think he lost
Y Lmny quickness or ability. He was just not a great WR. Still came close to getting a ring here, but not quite...


It's a tough one to describe but he never looked the same player. He never seemed to look as smooth or sudden as he did that rookie pre-season.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/13/2021 7:24 pm : link
I didn't know that Tiki tibit...interesting. I still think one can make an argument for Tiki & Canton.
Injury Concerns on Smith are Nonsense  
Rafflee : 4/14/2021 5:46 am : link
His build really has no impact on anything does at WR, other than his ability to block outside with some impact and consistency.

Given the existing roster, I'd rather see an OL or a Defender at 11 if they see a core starter at that slot. Receivers can be more easily found later in the Draft.
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