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NFT: Phillies at Mets Doubleheader

ZGiants98 : 4/13/2021 3:08 pm
Game 1

Mets Lineup

Brandon Nimmo – CF
Francisco Lindor – SS
Dominic Smith – LF
Pete Alonso – 1B
Jeff McNeil – 2B
Michael Conforto – RF
James McCann – C
Luis Guillorme – 3B
Taijuan Walker – RHP

Phillies Lineup

Andrew McCutchen – LF
Rhys Hoskins – 1B
Bryce Harper – RF
Alec Bohm – 3B
Didi Gregorius – SS
Jean Segura – 2B
Andrew Knapp – C
Roman Quinn – CF
Chase Anderson – RHP
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Mike  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:24 am : link
they played Jack Reinheimer (demoting LG to the minors in the process) and the carcass of Jose Reyes (traded for Todd Frazier who is barely hanging on now with the worst team in baseball) of course you can give a limited power player some burn.
2017  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:29 am : link
Guillorme .283/.376/.331 with his usual A+ glove work. Career .283/.376/.331. Jack Reinheimer appeared in 21 games for the 2018 Mets with a career .358 slug. C'mon, Guillorme has never been given a fair shake. Concerned about the power? Let that play out. Madrigal is/was one of the top prospects in baseball and has hit 4 homers as a pro
LG  
GF1080 : 4/14/2021 10:32 am : link
He should at minimum start when Stroman and Peterson pitch and go from there. If they can vacuum that whole side of the field any hitting on top of that would be gravy.
Not  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:34 am : link
revisionist either

"Daniel Wexler
@WexlerRules
·
Sep 5, 2018
Really strange to see Jack Reinheimer pass Guillorme on the depth chart. Must have a fan in the organization. Sadly, I expect Guillorme to lose his 40 man spot this off-season #Mets"
Deolis Guerrero!  
bhill410 : 4/14/2021 10:35 am : link
That is actually more crazy than the Phillips sighting on the pirates. I remember when he was essentially the only arm in the Mets minor league system. Even with how thin it is now it was nothing compared to how bad it was in late 2000s.
Buxton  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:35 am : link
9 games 1.1 fWAR. He has MVP talent... if he can somehow stay healthy.
RE: 2017  
Mike in NY : 4/14/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15220161 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Guillorme .283/.376/.331 with his usual A+ glove work. Career .283/.376/.331. Jack Reinheimer appeared in 21 games for the 2018 Mets with a career .358 slug. C'mon, Guillorme has never been given a fair shake. Concerned about the power? Let that play out. Madrigal is/was one of the top prospects in baseball and has hit 4 homers as a pro


Those numbers were in AA. In 2018, his first taste of the majors, he was .209/.284/.239. The carcas of Jose Reyes had a similar OBP and far greater SLG.
RE: RE: 2017  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:39 am : link
In comment 15220185 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15220161 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Guillorme .283/.376/.331 with his usual A+ glove work. Career .283/.376/.331. Jack Reinheimer appeared in 21 games for the 2018 Mets with a career .358 slug. C'mon, Guillorme has never been given a fair shake. Concerned about the power? Let that play out. Madrigal is/was one of the top prospects in baseball and has hit 4 homers as a pro



Those numbers were in AA. In 2018, his first taste of the majors, he was .209/.284/.239. The carcas of Jose Reyes had a similar OBP and far greater SLG.


Mike... you're citing...67 ab's over... 35 games played. C'mon, do you really think that's a fair way to judge ANY player? For context Mark Canha already has 47 ab's this season... over 12 games no less.
We  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:40 am : link
will have to agree to disagree here.
RE: We  
Mike in NY : 4/14/2021 10:42 am : link
In comment 15220192 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
will have to agree to disagree here.


I am just saying his swing changed between 2018 and 2019 and that was the key to Guillorme's development.
Even  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:43 am : link
more than Ramos 6 homers, Lowrie outhitting 90% of the Mets lineup is not something I expected to see. The Wilpons unwilling to let Lowrie get surgery.... that's a new one lol
RE: RE: We  
GF1080 : 4/14/2021 10:45 am : link
In comment 15220196 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15220192 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


will have to agree to disagree here.



I am just saying his swing changed between 2018 and 2019 and that was the key to Guillorme's development.


That's fine but are the Mets going to recognize it? Look at McNeil and Nimmo before they got them consistent playing time. They had no idea what they had with those 2.
Regarding Lowrie  
bhill410 : 4/14/2021 10:45 am : link
I get and believe the claim pertaining to last year, but what about 2019? Or why not get it after that offseason. That’s what is confusing to me.
RE: RE: We  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:47 am : link
In comment 15220196 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15220192 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


will have to agree to disagree here.



I am just saying his swing changed between 2018 and 2019 and that was the key to Guillorme's development.


Sure. But his glove (Paternostro from BP consistently RAVED about his defense)

Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Aug 16, 2014
Guillorme blows my mind on plays he doesn't even get to. Ranged from behind 2b to about 300 ft up LF line, just missed a sliding backhand.

Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Aug 12, 2020
Man I’ve seen a lot of middle infielders in the minors in a decade and I don’t think any of them had better hands/actions than Guillorme.

Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Aug 10, 2019
Been saying for years Guillorme had secret raw pop


To give the Reyes, Reinheimer, Frazier, Panik, Hecheverria types ALL a look before giving him a shot was shortsighted and the Mets in "recent" years have been known for things like this. Underrating their own talent.


RE: Regarding Lowrie  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:48 am : link
In comment 15220202 bhill410 said:
Quote:
I get and believe the claim pertaining to last year, but what about 2019? Or why not get it after that offseason. That’s what is confusing to me.


The surgery was supposed to happen Spring 2019.

"The Mets signed Lowrie to a two-year, $20 million contract prior to the 2019 season. Lowrie had just eight plate appearances in 2019, and none in 2019. The Salem, Oregon native was diagnosed with a knee fat pad impingement during spring training of 2019, and according to the player, he was threatened with a grievance if he pursued a surgical remedy."
Worth  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 10:50 am : link
a shot, I guess?

Kyle Glaser
@KyleAGlaser
The Atlantic League, a partner league of MLB, will move the mound back by one foot during the second half of its season, the @washingtonpost
reports. The DH will also be tied to the starting pitcher. Once a team pulls its starter, it loses the DH.
hope you don't mind  
pjcas18 : 4/14/2021 10:51 am : link
if I insert a fantasy baseball question:

If you were going to gamble on one of these players on waivers being more than fools gold who would it be:

Jed Lowrie
Kyle Seager
Evan Longoria
Adam Eaton

pitchers
Anthony Descalfini
John Gray

thank you in advance
RE: hope you don't mind  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 11:00 am : link
In comment 15220218 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
if I insert a fantasy baseball question:

If you were going to gamble on one of these players on waivers being more than fools gold who would it be:

Jed Lowrie
Kyle Seager
Evan Longoria
Adam Eaton

pitchers
Anthony Descalfini
John Gray

thank you in advance


I don't see any reason to believe Seager is "fool's gold" unless you're going to be disappointed with something more like .260 25 90. Gray #1 has been "lucky" notice his XFIP, he's yet to allow a HR and plays for the Rockies, flip side, is there is a very strong change he's traded to a good team at the deadline. DeSclafani in a similar boat, XFIP suggests he's been good but not this good but he 1) Plays in a strong park for his strengths (the Giants are excellent at earmarking suck guys) and also could be on another team at the deadline.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 11:02 am : link
in a keeper league and my team needed serious rebuilding so I just traded Kyle Lewis for Nimmo and Trevor Rogers. Only one start but he looked ace-level good.
RE: RE: Regarding Lowrie  
Shecky : 4/14/2021 11:05 am : link
In comment 15220211 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15220202 bhill410 said:


Quote:


I get and believe the claim pertaining to last year, but what about 2019? Or why not get it after that offseason. That’s what is confusing to me.



The surgery was supposed to happen Spring 2019.

"The Mets signed Lowrie to a two-year, $20 million contract prior to the 2019 season. Lowrie had just eight plate appearances in 2019, and none in 2019. The Salem, Oregon native was diagnosed with a knee fat pad impingement during spring training of 2019, and according to the player, he was threatened with a grievance if he pursued a surgical remedy."


Took a while to find, I’m not good at this stuff. But was pretty funny reading the thread from one he was first diagnosed as being day to day lol
Lowrie - Day to Day - ( New Window )
thanks DMM  
pjcas18 : 4/14/2021 11:07 am : link
my only hesitation on Seager is I have a lot of MI/3B options.

I have Machado, Happ, Gimenez, and JD Davis (IL) all who can play 3B plus other positions and Seager can *only* play 3B.

But i picked him up anyway.

RE: thanks DMM  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 11:12 am : link
In comment 15220253 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
my only hesitation on Seager is I have a lot of MI/3B options.

I have Machado, Happ, Gimenez, and JD Davis (IL) all who can play 3B plus other positions and Seager can *only* play 3B.

But i picked him up anyway.


I mean, he's not going to hit .317 (.355 BABIP) but just last season 9 homers, 40 rbi, 35 runs over 60 games, so he's a safe bet for 25 85-90 to me. Yes he's 33 but he's also been very durable for his career.
thank you for digging up that thread Shecky  
Eric on Li : 4/14/2021 11:24 am : link
the default position of expecting the worst and never trusting their public messaging really withstood the test of time in the Wilponzi era.

Quote:
just do the surgery now & clean it up as best they can for long haul
Eric on Li : 2/21/2019 12:44 pm : link
welcome to the mets BVW and Jed!!!! Maybe we'll get some more insurance money back to sign another pitcher.
@PJ I'm also submitting that thread to the Mets fan board of health  
Eric on Li : 4/14/2021 11:28 am : link
for full accreditation and license to speculate on their mishandling of player health. Example #2 in thesis defense right after Jose Reyes' new running style.
Someone sounds like  
pjcas18 : 4/14/2021 11:29 am : link
they're re-writing history, the quote below (from the thread) is purportedly from Lowrie - doesn't sound like a guy who wanted surgery and the team nixed it - at least not at that point):

Quote:
SNY
‏Verified account @SNYtv
28s28 seconds ago

"We got confirmation that there was no major damage, so that is good news...I want to be out there with the guys on Opening Day."
RE: Someone sounds like  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 11:36 am : link
In comment 15220312 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
they're re-writing history, the quote below (from the thread) is purportedly from Lowrie - doesn't sound like a guy who wanted surgery and the team nixed it - at least not at that point):



Quote:


SNY
‏Verified account @SNYtv
28s28 seconds ago

"We got confirmation that there was no major damage, so that is good news...I want to be out there with the guys on Opening Day."



PJ,
His injury is/was not considered "major damage".

"That condition occurs when the knee fat pad — located below the kneecap and designed to protect the patellar tendon —becomes swollen and inflamed. "

He alleges he wanted to go with the surgical option, they did not believe this was necessary.
Who  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 11:38 am : link
knows the truth but given how tight-lipped and weird they were about it, I tend to believe there was a disconnect in regard to his treatment. The Mets have often been weird with injuries but this one went above and beyond.
From Gammons piece  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 11:44 am : link
Before the 2019 season, Lowrie signed a two-year, $20 million contract. The Mets GM was Brodie Van Wagenen, Lowrie’s former agent. But in the spring Lowrie’s knee gave him considerable pain. He was examined, then asked for a second opinion, which concluded that he had a knee fat pad impingement. The knee fat pad protects the patella tendon, and when it is damaged in any way, it is extremely painful.

Lowrie got eight plate appearances in 2019, none last season. The Mets declined to allow him to get the knee operation, he says. They threatened him with a grievance. As he sat out the 60-game season, things were unpleasant, and as soon as the Mets were eliminated, Lowrie was free to get the knee procedure, which occurred in October, right around the time Fred and Jeff Wilpon were on their way out as team owners, and Van Wagenen with them. Lowrie had the surgery and he was assured he would be ready to work regularly by the middle of March. “I missed playing so much, it was very difficult,” Lowrie says. “I would love to play two more years, then perhaps work in the business. It’s been my life for a long time, from Stanford to 14 seasons in the major leagues.”
while we are doing keeper/dynasty questions  
KDavies : 4/14/2021 11:46 am : link
where are you on Deivi Garcia vs. Ian Anderson. Possibly looking to deal one before the season is out, as I have four other SP keepers (total # is 13, and I can't see keeping more than 5 SP). Other SP are deGrom, Giolito, Flaherty, Peralta
I liked the Lowrie signing at the time  
KDavies : 4/14/2021 11:47 am : link
he is a decent player. Amazing what he did before the Mets, and now after. Just thank the lord the Wilpons are no more.
Passan/DeGrom  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 11:48 am : link
RE: Who  
Eric on Li : 4/14/2021 11:48 am : link
In comment 15220327 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
knows the truth but given how tight-lipped and weird they were about it, I tend to believe there was a disconnect in regard to his treatment. The Mets have often been weird with injuries but this one went above and beyond.


I really hope this is an area where they are using Cohen's $ wisely to upgrade. The FO page on their website hasn't been updated yet but whenever it goes public I'm hoping to see that there are some new names on the training/performance staff. In the last decade+ the only trustable quotes re: NYM were from outside like Altchek and ElAttrache.
RE: RE: Someone sounds like  
pjcas18 : 4/14/2021 11:49 am : link
In comment 15220323 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15220312 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


they're re-writing history, the quote below (from the thread) is purportedly from Lowrie - doesn't sound like a guy who wanted surgery and the team nixed it - at least not at that point):



Quote:


SNY
‏Verified account @SNYtv
28s28 seconds ago

"We got confirmation that there was no major damage, so that is good news...I want to be out there with the guys on Opening Day."





PJ,
His injury is/was not considered "major damage".

"That condition occurs when the knee fat pad — located below the kneecap and designed to protect the patellar tendon —becomes swollen and inflamed. "

He alleges he wanted to go with the surgical option, they did not believe this was necessary.


I'm just reading the quote from him where he said he wants to be out there opening day, then a quote from him this year where he says he wanted surgery but the Mets said no - those two things are in conflict.
RE: while we are doing keeper/dynasty questions  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 11:51 am : link
In comment 15220348 KDavies said:
Quote:
where are you on Deivi Garcia vs. Ian Anderson. Possibly looking to deal one before the season is out, as I have four other SP keepers (total # is 13, and I can't see keeping more than 5 SP). Other SP are deGrom, Giolito, Flaherty, Peralta


That's a tough call. 5'9 SP are very rare.. but I advocated signing an extension with one in this very thread (Stroman). I I'm going Anderson. Slightly lower ceiling but not that much lower, 100% a SP and no real red flags.
Well  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 11:53 am : link
#1 I'm sure he wanted to play regardless of his injury #2 He received a 2nd opinion. Given how strange the Mets comments were his entire time here I think it's a safe assumption they weren't seeing eye to eye. I have a very hard time calling this revisionist. They kept oddly mum the entire time and provided little to no actual updates.
the Lowrie signing was a way better idea than trading for Cano (duh)  
Eric on Li : 4/14/2021 11:53 am : link
for just 2 years 20m they got a guy off an all star year with MVP votes at the same position, and capable of playing other positions.

Peanuts compared to taking on the $100m+ of Cano, who was older and coming off the PED issue. Or as it turns out coming off his first but not last PED issue.

my only guess as to why they didn't let him get the surgery is the Wilponzis didn't want him to miss half of the first season right away, were fine with recouping the insurance money, and in complete save $ mode last year knowing they were on the way out the door and getting severely impacted by no fans in ballpark.
thanks Dan  
KDavies : 4/14/2021 11:57 am : link
yeah, those are my feelings too. Garcia has huge upside, but question marks.

Stroman doesn't pitch as fast as Garcia. I would love to keep him (and Noah) here as well. Trade isn't looking as bad, though my big issue with it was always trading prospects for him in combination with letting Wheeler go in FA. Made no sense.
RE: thanks Dan  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 12:03 pm : link
In comment 15220388 KDavies said:
Quote:
yeah, those are my feelings too. Garcia has huge upside, but question marks.

Stroman doesn't pitch as fast as Garcia. I would love to keep him (and Noah) here as well. Trade isn't looking as bad, though my big issue with it was always trading prospects for him in combination with letting Wheeler go in FA. Made no sense.


Oh yeah, Stroman and Garcia are only similar in terms of size. Fangraphs has Anderson 13 and Garcia 60 if that means anything. I don't see anything to concern me with Anderson and while he doesn't throw 99, he sits comfortably 94 and touches as high as 97.
RE: Well  
pjcas18 : 4/14/2021 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15220372 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
#1 I'm sure he wanted to play regardless of his injury #2 He received a 2nd opinion. Given how strange the Mets comments were his entire time here I think it's a safe assumption they weren't seeing eye to eye. I have a very hard time calling this revisionist. They kept oddly mum the entire time and provided little to no actual updates.


the Mets have a horrific history of injury diagnosis and communication.

it's one of the things I hope changes with Cohen.

Also, I don't know if it was a "Mets" thing per se or if sometimes that nature of injuries and medicine is not always back and white, there is sometimes gray.

regardless if I had to pick a side on who was more forthcoming here it would be Lowrie, but like I said I hope that chapter of not believing anything Mets injury related is behind us.
Finally  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 12:08 pm : link
going to my first minor league game in 2 seasons in June. Cyclones games are always fun.
RE: I liked the Lowrie signing at the time  
moze1021 : 4/14/2021 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15220353 KDavies said:
Quote:
he is a decent player. Amazing what he did before the Mets, and now after. Just thank the lord the Wilpons are no more.


Did the Wilpons or Brodie make Lowrie be a jerk to fans and the press? He didn't do himself any favors, that's for sure.
RE: Finally  
pjcas18 : 4/14/2021 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15220424 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
going to my first minor league game in 2 seasons in June. Cyclones games are always fun.


I hope to as well, the Pawtucket Red Sox moved to Worcester. Would love to see a Syracuse Mets vs Worcester Red Sox game.

The Mets are in town May 11 - May 16 and again August 10 - 15 - I think to limit travel they have longer series.
Paul LoDuca owes Joe West $500K  
Seventh Spiel : 4/14/2021 2:04 pm : link
Careful what you say out there, guys.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Paul LoDuca owes Joe West $500K  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/14/2021 2:30 pm : link
In comment 15220631 Seventh Spiel said:
Quote:
Careful what you say out there, guys. Link - ( New Window )


It was pretty stupid for Lo Duca to say that. And I can't stand joe west, but you can't accuse the guy of that and expect not to have some consequences for it.
Sleeper  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 3:08 pm : link
WS team, the Brewers. They could be scary in the playoffs.
RE: Paul LoDuca owes Joe West $500K  
Mike in NY : 4/14/2021 3:09 pm : link
In comment 15220631 Seventh Spiel said:
Quote:
Careful what you say out there, guys. Link - ( New Window )


The paperwork has some interesting info:
(1) Joe West is retiring at the end of this season;
(2) Joe West is going on the lecture circuit; and
(3) Joe West thinks he will be enshrined in Hall of Fame
RE: RE: Paul LoDuca owes Joe West $500K  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 3:20 pm : link
In comment 15220751 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15220631 Seventh Spiel said:


Quote:


Careful what you say out there, guys. Link - ( New Window )



The paperwork has some interesting info:
(1) Joe West is retiring at the end of this season;
(2) Joe West is going on the lecture circuit; and
(3) Joe West thinks he will be enshrined in Hall of Fame


He's likely a HOFer. 40 seasons as an MLB ump, will retire with the most games umped in the history of baseball.
No  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 4:17 pm : link
timetable for Betances. I wonder if that's the end of the road for him?
RE: RE: Well  
DanMetroMan : 4/14/2021 4:25 pm : link
In comment 15220421 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15220372 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


#1 I'm sure he wanted to play regardless of his injury #2 He received a 2nd opinion. Given how strange the Mets comments were his entire time here I think it's a safe assumption they weren't seeing eye to eye. I have a very hard time calling this revisionist. They kept oddly mum the entire time and provided little to no actual updates.



the Mets have a horrific history of injury diagnosis and communication.

it's one of the things I hope changes with Cohen.

Also, I don't know if it was a "Mets" thing per se or if sometimes that nature of injuries and medicine is not always back and white, there is sometimes gray.

regardless if I had to pick a side on who was more forthcoming here it would be Lowrie, but like I said I hope that chapter of not believing anything Mets injury related is behind us.


Rojas just confirmed Lowrie asked the Mets for permission to have surgery.
If joe west goes into the HOF I will come on here and claim  
bhill410 : 4/14/2021 5:10 pm : link
To be done with baseball and likely turn on a Mets game 5 min later. That said it would be a travesty for that guy to be anywhere near the hall of fame, a travesty that is only outdone by letting him be an IMO for that long.
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