How confident are you guys in this being the Giants starting OL entering the upcoming season? It's such a young line, and the only "veteran" in the group is coming off an subpar season and will be making the change from LG to RG.
I know the majority on here wants one of the playmaking WRs in the first round, but I still believe that NFL games are won and lost in the trenches. The OL has been below average for a few years now, and there's still far too many questions marks with the current group. Because of this, I am leaning more and more towards Rashawn Slater being the guy at 11.
We can call it a prayer from here, but internally, the Giants have invested a lot of resources in the above 5 players + coaching staff and should be looking for a strong ROI/internal improvement.
My sense - and I hope I'm right - is that Judge treats player development much more seriously than most pro coaches.
Starts with finding self-starting players that like to grind. Then strength & conditioning. Then fundamental technique work. We'll see.
Also, we signed a Vet Guard who is competing.
So, drafting OL this year does not solve the issue you are trying to solve.
Add a Waddle or Smith with return of Barkely and the addition of Golloday and things are going to look soooooo different.
Thomas, Lemiuex, Humphrey, Hernandez Peart with Gates, Solder, Fulton and Harrison in reserve.
Oline is a need because there is room to upgrade the talent and Hernandez is a FA next year. Not because they are young.
What I want to do is add Trey Smith out of Tennessee in the 3rd round. He'll come in and lock down LG on day 1.
Also, we signed a Vet Guard who is competing.
So, drafting OL this year does not solve the issue you are trying to solve.
It's more of a PERCEIVED issue, actually, which may not even be an issue at all.
People need to give these players time. I LOVE Peart and what he can become. He has as much upside as any OT in this draft class.
And although I'm concerned a little abput Lemieux, I trust this coaching staff that he will improve. And Hernandez is not a concern.
But Peart looked the part for awhile and then he got sick and he didn't look quite the same after. VS Thomas who steadily improved.
I think that's where the risk is. Being backed by Solder who was terrible when he did play and is now a year removed is not really consolation.
That's why someone like Slater makes sense, he can play OT and OG. We will have a need somewhere there during the season.
It was bad early and it got better as the year went on. Exactly what you want to see with a line that had three rookies and a player playing Center for the first time, ehich has a lot of factors to learning that position that are different than any other position. What do you expect from these guys? They were all going to come right out pf college and start rag dolling a bumch of NFL defensive linemen?
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Younger and more talented. I don’t understand how some of you want to keep ignoring oline. The line was still bad last year and getting rid of Ziegler makes it worse. Drafting Slater if available is the smart move.
It was bad early and it got better as the year went on. Exactly what you want to see with a line that had three rookies and a player playing Center for the first time, ehich has a lot of factors to learning that position that are different than any other position. What do you expect from these guys? They were all going to come right out pf college and start rag dolling a bumch of NFL defensive linemen?
I don’t think it should just be assumed that will be better this year especially after losing Zeitler. Keep adding . Make the line a strength instead of a weakness.
There’s no edge that is worth the 11th pick
On the other hand, something obviously happened with Hernandez. He was never a pro bowler but I always thought he was a competent starter but he got benched for Lemieux. So I am not confident in Lemieux and the coaching staff is obviously not confident in Hernandez as a starter.
If Waddle or Smith is there, I take them but I do like the idea of Slater bc if Peart works out, he can be a high end guard and if Peart doesnt do well, Slater can play tackle.
I think there are day 2 IOL that will be upgrades over Lemieux and Hernandez.
This is a young line and you obviously need to let them prove themselves but the odds of all those guys working out is very very slim. We still need to add 1-2 young guys to the group, it is a bigtim need for us. If there is a guy on the board that is BPA or close, especially a guy some view as plug and play NFL ready, like some feel Slater may be, then they need to be in the conversation at the pick. At the very least, an IOL needs to be added to the mix by Round 4 at the latest.
The idea of adding a Waddle or Smith to offense excites me as much as anybody but none of this offense goes, Jones fails and we waste Barkley's prime, if that OL doesn't at least perform at league average over the next 2 years.
If Slater is there it’s a need +most likely BPA for me and I don’t see how anyone could argue that l.
Seeing Peart on other thread....I just feel fine with RT. I do not expect Solder to play...but as a swing tackle should be perfect.
So the guards are Questions marks...but in away....they had much bigger Question marks last off season...
Add some solid depth and development linemen....and hope the coaches have them ready
The current talent is questionable and the depth is suspect. The OL is not a finished product.
The smart play is to spend an early pick on OL and run it back later in the draft.
1. We drafted 3 O Linemen last year and all 3 are projected to start.
2. Your draft picks from years past must start to contribute. Peart needs to play until he proves he isn't ready at this point. Even though he was a 3rd round pick he needs to be out there. Kareem McKenzie was a 3rd round pick and became a steady contributor. Peart could also, he needs to prove he can play.
3. I don't want to use pick 11 for the OL simply because I think we have invested a good amount of draft capital and FA into the position. They line is young and needs to play together. I can see adding OL in round 2-4 be that a C, G or T.
4. Our 1st round pick should be a starter: WR, LB ,ER are all positions that could used a starter. We need our early picks to play ASAP.
Slater isn't blocking anybody from developing, that's why he should be in play at 11.
There is no way the Giant coaches can be satisfied with their Guard play based on last year. And while Lemieux still can develop and maybe Hernandez rebounds, not sure it will take all that much to find somebody better than both.
Peart handling the Right Tackle job for 16 games is a massive question for this Offense. And really could be a difference maker if he becomes a staple there.
That is a good point and I am hoping that is why he could not reclaim the LG over Lemieux.
Gates was average at best. On this OL he looked like an All Pro but he was still not anywhere near a lock down player.
With that said I do have hopes for Thomas, Gates and Peart to improve and at least be average to above average. I have little faith in Lemieux and Hernandez to be the starters next season. If they are our starting Gs day 1 this team is only a 6-8 win team. Zeitler was better than both of them.
If Slater is there at 11 I take him over the WRs because of his versatility. He can play OT and G so fills depth and insurance. Judge has stated the best will be on the field and I actually believe him. the depth at WR in this draft is very good, you can still get a starting caliber guy into the 3rd round. Doubtful to get an OL for immediate impact after round 2.
Lemieux showed some good and some bad. But it was fairly obvious the coaches were fine with him in there over Hernandez.
Day 2 investment into the OL is a must...
OL should definitely be addressed in the draft, preferably sooner rather than later. It's tough though, since ER and WR are also such big needs.
I'd be totally fine with Slater as the pick if he's there, although I'd prefer getting Smith. What I really hope doesn't happen though is reaching for an ER, which it looks more and more like the Giants are going to do.
Also, who knows, maybe a year off might make Solder at least serviceable. Longshot, but stranger things have happened.
OL should definitely be addressed in the draft, preferably sooner rather than later. It's tough though, since ER and WR are also such big needs.
I'd be totally fine with Slater as the pick if he's there, although I'd prefer getting Smith. What I really hope doesn't happen though is reaching for an ER, which it looks more and more like the Giants are going to do.
Also, who knows, maybe a year off might make Solder at least serviceable. Longshot, but stranger things have happened.
I don't know if Solder makes it out of camp.
Hope one of the top receivers are still there, but if not then Slater would be a stronger pick than any of the edge guys imv...
This quote is ridiculous. I've got the opposite cynical viewpoint if we're speaking about myopathy. Fans look at rookie and 2nd year players of their teams as ascending talents and think it's this inevitable linear progression. Best case, progression is rarely linear, worst case, the players do not work out. If you take the time to really look back at past drafts, not just Giants drafts, you will see that MOST do not work out. For the past decade on this board, we have praised the previous years draft class in year 2, and the shine starts to wear off as this blossoming of young talent never occurs. It happened in pretty substantial ways after 2014 and 2018. It will most definitely happen in some capacity to this class as well. Hell, we have played this game multiple times with this exact unit over the past decade.
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thrown in the middle of the mix and performing like...well, rookies...with no capacity for development and improvement with a coaching staff incapable of coaching/teaching/developing them, and just want to churn in a new guy for more of the same, forever wondering why we never get better, I would bet an amount of figurative dollars that the team itself views things differently and will draft according to their myopic view.
This quote is ridiculous. I've got the opposite cynical viewpoint if we're speaking about myopathy. Fans look at rookie and 2nd year players of their teams as ascending talents and think it's this inevitable linear progression. Best case, progression is rarely linear, worst case, the players do not work out. If you take the time to really look back at past drafts, not just Giants drafts, you will see that MOST do not work out. For the past decade on this board, we have praised the previous years draft class in year 2, and the shine starts to wear off as this blossoming of young talent never occurs. It happened in pretty substantial ways after 2014 and 2018. It will most definitely happen in some capacity to this class as well. Hell, we have played this game multiple times with this exact unit over the past decade.
good post aces...
Slater is a tremendous hedge, wouldn't hate the pick.
I think Thomas is going to be very good. Gates will be better and Peart I thought did well before Covid. Hernandez is in a contract year which sometimes brings a improvement.
They will add a Interior guy in round 2-3 imo. Keep adding competition. I think Judge follows the Patriots model. Find guys in rounds 3-5 with rare 1st round picks. Add to it every year. Don't sign just good OL to second contracts. Let them walk but have a replacement ready.
Lemieux doesn't have OG NFL feet. He is just too slow but has many superlative qualities which translate well to the OC position. Gates on the other hand has very good feet and shows tremendous ability for pulling. In outside Zone which is what we supposedly want to run for Barkley he could be an ideal option for RG.
In this case the only position in serious question is LG. Bring in a draft pick to fight it out with Hernendez.
Lemieux doesn't have OG NFL feet. He is just too slow but has many superlative qualities which translate well to the OC position. Gates on the other hand has very good feet and shows tremendous ability for pulling. In outside Zone which is what we supposedly want to run for Barkley he could be an ideal option for RG.
In this case the only position in serious question is LG. Bring in a draft pick to fight it out with Hernendez.
Line as is. HUMPTY DUMPTY.