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Azeez Ojulari vs. Jaelan Phillips

Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 4/14/2021 11:39 am
Personally, I feel as if Kwity Paye and Gregory Rousseau are more suited for a traditional 4-3 DE role. I know Paye in particular is quite athletic with the potential to fit in any type of scheme, but I think it's notable that his interior pass rush is considered better than his outside pass rush. Rousseau is a guy that I just don't think has the agility to play in space. Jayson Oweh is a freak athlete but is super raw and hard to compare.

So because of that, I feel like Ojulari and Phillips are the top prospects in terms of filling the traditional 3-4 OLB outside pass rusher role. I know Judge wants the defense to be multiple and is from the Patriots' school of defense where a stud Edge pass rusher isn't a necessity, but there are a lot of signs suggesting the Giants want to add a guy who fits that type of skillset to their defense.

We've all heard the Leonard Floyd rumor, a pure speed player off the edge who doesn't fit the classic Pats' profile. Some here used the Floyd rumor to connect the dots and assume that Azeez Ojulari would interest the Giants due to the similar background, which was confirmed by the heavy Giants presence at the Georgia Pro Day. There was also a heavy Giants presence at the Miami Pro Day, where Phillips outclassed Rousseau and put on a show by all accounts.

Pro Day Results
Jaelan Phillips --- 6'5" -- 260 lbs -- 4.56 40yd -- 21 Bench -- 36" Vert -- 10'5" Broad -- 33.25" Arms -- 4.13 SS -- 7.01 3-Cone
Azeez Ojulari ---- 6'2" -- 249 lbs -- 4.60 40yd -- 26 Bench -- 30" Vert -- 10'7" Broad -- 34.38" Arms -- 7.27 3-Cone

2020 Season Stats
Jaelan Phillips --- 10 G -- 45 Tackles -- 8.0 Sacks -- 15.5 TFL -- 1 INT -- 3 PD
Azeez Ojulari ---- 10 G -- 31 Tackles -- 9.5 Sacks -- 12.5 TFL -- 4 FF --- 2 PD

Phillips has the superior size/speed combination and seems to have better bend when coming around the edge. Ojulari has a very impressive length/1st step combination, and seems to do a better job of utilizing that length. Both guys seem to have a good repertoire of moves and both guys also seem to have the quickness to play in space.

Our own Sy'56 gave them the same grade (84), although he gave the slight edge to Ojulari due to less questions about his medical history/personality(?). But it does seem like he believes Phillips has a higher ceiling.

So my question is simply, out of these 2 players, which one would you rather draft?
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Easy one for me...  
Capt. Don : 4/14/2021 11:42 am : link
Ojulari

Good production in the SEC
High Football Character
Explosive Athlete
Good Measurables (especially arm length)
No significant injury history
if it weren't for the concussions it would be Phillips  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2021 11:44 am : link
however if the Giants are fine with Olujari's size and ability to add a bit of weight, then I'd be fine with it. I suspect he's going to be the more professional, dedicated player which is going to score points with Judge.
Ojulari  
Ron Johnson : 4/14/2021 11:45 am : link
and let a few of our 87 DL coaches, coach him up
the medical question is  
Dr. D : 4/14/2021 11:46 am : link
a pretty big one, isn't it?

He almost quit the game bc of it. That's his right, of course, but that's a huge red flag to me.
Thinking it could be Phillips gives me a headache ...  
Spider56 : 4/14/2021 11:48 am : link
How does the comparison look between Ojulari and Paye?
Ojulari  
Jarvis : 4/14/2021 11:50 am : link
Phillips just seems like medical issues follow him. Multiple concussions over several years. Bad ankle injuries. Off the field wrist injury requiring THREE surgeries to fix. Medical retirement. Now this weekend he couldn’t get to the medical rechecks in Indy because he has Covid.

Ojulari is a lot cleaner. One injury in high school (knee ACL), but healthy ever since. Team captain (since freshman year). Very productive. I think people didn’t love his vertical and 3-cone and that took the luster off. However, he is one of the youngest players in the draft and produced in the SEC.

My preference is neither at 11. Receiver if available (waddle or smith). Someone like Joseph Ossai in the 2nd who also has a ton of intangibles, produced (1st team all American), had a freaky Pro day (1.58 10 yard split, 41 inch vertical) and is still young and learning the edge position. Or Payton Turner, although he may go higher now.
Phillips is way better  
jeff57 : 4/14/2021 11:51 am : link
But the concussions are the problem,. No way would I take Ojulari at 11.
My opinion of the ERs  
NYG22 : 4/14/2021 11:52 am : link

1 Kwity Paye 6'3" 260 Michigan Michigan didn't use him in a way that optimized his draft rankings, but make no mistake, this a versatile, "high floor" player who will play in several Pro Bowls. Player Comp: Justin Tuck

2 Azeez Ojulari  6’2-249 Georgia Quick twitched athlete. Great "get off". Probably needs to get stronger to hold the point of attack, but is a good pass rushing prospect Day 1. Like Paye, he's a top notch kid character wise. Player Comp: Umenyiora

3 Joseph Ossai 6’3-242 Texas While he is more of an outside guy than Darius Leonard (and bigger), he has that kind of elite motor. He's also high end athletically. If he somehow slips into RD2, he's a major steal. Player Comp: Shaq Barrett

4 Joe Tryon 6’6-262 U of Wash Somewhat raw but terrific athlete who plays 100 MPH. Opted out in 2020. Motor and measurables are top notch. Fairly productive too. Player Comp: Montez Sweat

5 Elerson Smith 6’7-255 Northern Iowa Flying under the radar. Really good athlete. Productive in his college career and looked the part at Senior Bowl week. RD2 is not too high for him. Player Comp: Maxx Crosby

6 Carlos Basham 6’3-285 Wake Forest Versatile lineman who seems to prefer the inside rather than edge. But he can do both. Dependable guy who almost certainly will be productive but never elite. Player Comp: Carlos Dunlap

7 Gregory Rousseau 6’7-265 Miami The dictionary definition of a futures bet. His length is elite. Coordinated athlete. I worry about how raw he is and how high he plays. Player Comp: Mattias Kiwinuka

8 Jaelen Phillips 6’6-260 Miami Another high risk, high reward bet from the U. Phillips is the best pure talent of anyone on this list. He could be a Pro Bowler early in his career. He also could retire early (extensive injury history). I wouldn't touch him. Let someone else take the risk. Player Comp: Olivier Vernon

9 Jayson Oweh 6’5-265 Penn State Pound for pound, might be the best athlete in the draft. Plays hard enough. But plays high, so his speed to power conversion is subpar. Desperately needs good coaching. Still, I think he'll always be a tease of a player. Player Comp: Clowney

10 Rashad Weaver 6’6-255 Pitt Low ceiling, high floor. Does everything right. Assignment diligent. Very skilled in technique. Just not a ton of juice athletically. Player Comp: Romeo Okwara
RE: the medical question is  
knowledgetimmons : 4/14/2021 11:53 am : link
In comment 15220347 Dr. D said:
Quote:
a pretty big one, isn't it?

He almost quit the game bc of it. That's his right, of course, but that's a huge red flag to me.


The medical question with Phillips is a big one if you place more value on less talented players.

His ticker will keep on ticking for atleast 4-5 more years. After that, the money will keep him warm at night, as it does will all football players.
RE: Easy one for me...  
chopperhatch : 4/14/2021 11:54 am : link
In comment 15220337 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
Ojulari

Good production in the SEC
High Football Character
Explosive Athlete
Good Measurables (especially arm length)
No significant injury history


I agree. Especially if he can actually cover a little bit like has been suggested.
Ojulari  
jeff57 : 4/14/2021 11:57 am : link
“Just too up and down. There are times when he looks like he has velcro on his jersey with the way blocks stick to him." -- Area scout for AFC team

Sounds a little like a Bulldog already on the team.
Link - ( New Window )
eh, neither is optimal  
JonC : 4/14/2021 11:59 am : link
If they're confident in Phillips' concussion history not being a red flag, he's easily the pick. You can build around his skill set and deploy him from both fronts as the rusher.

I don't like Ojulari, he doesn't pop on film to me and disappears for stretches. UGA LBs in general haven't impressed me besides Roquan. I suspect his game won't translate to a really good NFL OLB, we can do better. I'd prefer Phillips (if he's medically sound) or pick Paye and take my chances with his potential and work ethic.
RE: the medical question is  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/14/2021 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15220347 Dr. D said:
Quote:
a pretty big one, isn't it?

He almost quit the game bc of it. That's his right, of course, but that's a huge red flag to me.


It's hard to blast the guy. He was in a very significant accident and had a long road to recovery. I can't imagine what his headspace was like, especially playing a sport as brutal as football.
Phillips is a top talent  
Rudy5757 : 4/14/2021 12:00 pm : link
but I would remove him from consideration in round 1. He has shown that he can walk away from the game and has serious injury history. The only way I would even consider is if we trade down and get an additional 2nd rounder to offset the risk.
RE: eh, neither is optimal  
ryanmkeane : 4/14/2021 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15220394 JonC said:
Quote:
If they're confident in Phillips' concussion history not being a red flag, he's easily the pick. You can build around his skill set and deploy him from both fronts as the rusher.

I don't like Ojulari, he doesn't pop on film to me and disappears for stretches. UGA LBs in general haven't impressed me besides Roquan. I suspect his game won't translate to a really good NFL OLB, we can do better. I'd prefer Phillips (if he's medically sound) or pick Paye and take my chances with his potential and work ethic.

i agree with this. i think Ojulari is similar to Carter
While none of them are good value at #11  
Bill L : 4/14/2021 12:01 pm : link
in the late teens or early twenties I would take a flier on Paye. I just couldn't bring myself to take a risk on Phillips not matter how good he is. I think the Giants can't afford to miss on this pick and I think the shadow of Deandre Baker will loom large over any consideration of Phillips.
really like Tryon  
JonC : 4/14/2021 12:01 pm : link
and would take a shot on Oweh if they're available at #42 or via a trade up. Worth the price.
Sy mentioned  
ryanmkeane : 4/14/2021 12:03 pm : link
Phillips may not be a personality fit with NYG.
RE: eh, neither is optimal  
chopperhatch : 4/14/2021 12:03 pm : link
In comment 15220394 JonC said:
Quote:
If they're confident in Phillips' concussion history not being a red flag, he's easily the pick. You can build around his skill set and deploy him from both fronts as the rusher.

I don't like Ojulari, he doesn't pop on film to me and disappears for stretches. UGA LBs in general haven't impressed me besides Roquan. I suspect his game won't translate to a really good NFL OLB, we can do better. I'd prefer Phillips (if he's medically sound) or pick Paye and take my chances with his potential and work ethic.


Everything Ive heard is that Paye has incredible athleticism, is his work ethic a positive? Because if so, I think you can get the most out of a player like that.
RE: Sy mentioned  
jeff57 : 4/14/2021 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15220408 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Phillips may not be a personality fit with NYG.


How so?
RE: Sy mentioned  
Bill L : 4/14/2021 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15220408 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Phillips may not be a personality fit with NYG.


Well, that's not so much of a concern because it sounds like one more hit to the helmet and he will have a different one.
I’ll take Paye over Ojulari  
jeff57 : 4/14/2021 12:06 pm : link
Although I’m not wild about either one of them. I don’t want another ER who has trouble getting off blocks. The way Carter and Ximines do.
The other question is whether Odenigbo and Anderson  
Bill L : 4/14/2021 12:08 pm : link
should be factored into the calculus.
Ojulari  
Rjanyg : 4/14/2021 12:09 pm : link
Clean, leader, productive, healthy. Pick 11 may be to high for him but I could see trading with NE back to 15, getting a 3rd round pick and taking him.
Pretty damning write up on Paye....  
chopperhatch : 4/14/2021 12:12 pm : link
I dont like what I read here AT ALL.


Daniel Kelly says Payenot even a 1st round talent? - ( New Window )
“The heavy presence at Georgia Pro Day”  
Mark in ATL : 4/14/2021 12:12 pm : link
It is my understanding that each team is allowed three representatives at each pro day. It is also my understanding that Judge attended the Penn State, Miami, and possibly the UGA pro day. Petit attended the UGA, Miami, and possibly the Penn State day. To state a heavy presence at a pro day over another may not be entirely accurate.
Comments on Ossai  
Rick in Dallas : 4/14/2021 12:12 pm : link
I watched almost every Texas game and Ossai disappeared in large of stretches of many of those games which was really disappointing. Just sayin!!!
jeff  
ryanmkeane : 4/14/2021 12:14 pm : link
not sure, Sy said "I'll leave it there" after he mentioned it.
Odenigbo and Anderson  
JonC : 4/14/2021 12:17 pm : link
are not impacting my decision to add Edge talent.
RE: RE: eh, neither is optimal  
JonC : 4/14/2021 12:18 pm : link
In comment 15220409 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15220394 JonC said:


Quote:


If they're confident in Phillips' concussion history not being a red flag, he's easily the pick. You can build around his skill set and deploy him from both fronts as the rusher.

I don't like Ojulari, he doesn't pop on film to me and disappears for stretches. UGA LBs in general haven't impressed me besides Roquan. I suspect his game won't translate to a really good NFL OLB, we can do better. I'd prefer Phillips (if he's medically sound) or pick Paye and take my chances with his potential and work ethic.



Everything Ive heard is that Paye has incredible athleticism, is his work ethic a positive? Because if so, I think you can get the most out of a player like that.


Reports are top notch work ethic, very coachable, strong character.
These questions about the ERs  
jeff57 : 4/14/2021 12:18 pm : link
Is why Smith, Waddle or Slater look like safer picks at 11.
What's the point of figuring out who's the best traditional 3-4 edge?  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/14/2021 12:19 pm : link
We're not a traditional 3-4 defense.

The concept of being multiple seems to get lost sometimes. Someone like Paye can handle some short-area LB in an odd front, and play DE in both odd and even fronts, along with some 3T in an even front - that makes him multiple. Coupled with his insane 3-cone number, he's a very intriguing fit for Graham's defense.

Ojulari is actually less versatile than Paye, in my opinion. He's a legit edge guy, but where do you play him when we line up in an even front? Is he putting his hand in the ground or standing up? I'd assume he's more likely to do the former than the latter in that scenario, but I think he loses some value if asked to do so.

Phillips, I think, can provide a lot of the same versatility that Paye can, along with some added explosiveness, but comes with his own flags that may or may not be insurmountable.
...  
ryanmkeane : 4/14/2021 12:22 pm : link
if Smith, Chase, Pitts, and Waddle are all gone, and NYG was deciding between Phillips, Rousseau, Paye, and Ojulari if they deemed they wanted to wait on OL...based on everything we know about these players and the coaching staff and also DG's history, i would predict that we would draft Paye
GD  
ryanmkeane : 4/14/2021 12:24 pm : link
we agree on something finally. I see Paye as more intriguing to Graham and Judge cause he seems to be truly multiple, vs Ojulari is basically a Floyd type guy, he can basically only rush the passer from the outside and would not be able to play multiple places on the DL.
RE: really like Tryon  
Thegratefulhead : 4/14/2021 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15220403 JonC said:
Quote:
and would take a shot on Oweh if they're available at #42 or via a trade up. Worth the price.
Tyron does not stop. Relentless on the field. Love players like that. it would be hard to watch the tape after a game not play harder after you watch him.
RE: What's the point of figuring out who's the best traditional 3-4 edge?  
chopperhatch : 4/14/2021 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15220455 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
We're not a traditional 3-4 defense.

[bThe concept of being multiple seems to get lost sometimes. Someone like Paye can handle some short-area LB in an odd front, and play DE in both odd and even fronts, along with some 3T in an even front - that makes him multiple. Coupled with his insane 3-cone number, he's a very intriguing fit for Graham's defense.[/b]

Ojulari is actually less versatile than Paye, in my opinion. He's a legit edge guy, but where do you play him when we line up in an even front? Is he putting his hand in the ground or standing up? I'd assume he's more likely to do the former than the latter in that scenario, but I think he loses some value if asked to do so.

Phillips, I think, can provide a lot of the same versatility that Paye can, along with some added explosiveness, but comes with his own flags that may or may not be insurmountable.


This is what intrigues me about the guy. He has so much athleticism and ability to play multiple positions that it could really extend what we do along the D line. Think of a 3rd down alignment of him and LW at the ends and DL in the middle. Thats a group that could collapse a pocket using only 3. Also like that he is quick enough to cover a patch of grass if need be.

Ojulari only appeals to me if he can play OLB had an effective level. If he is very below avg in coverage, Paye is the more attractive prospect playing next to our other guys
RE: Easy one for me...  
bigblue12 : 4/14/2021 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15220337 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
Ojulari

Good production in the SEC
High Football Character
Explosive Athlete
Good Measurables (especially arm length)
No significant injury history


30” vertical is pretty terrible and not indicative of a exclusive athlete
Really interesting thread and  
cosmicj : 4/14/2021 12:50 pm : link
Thanks to NYG22 for the run down.
Brugeler has Rousseau falling to the Giants in the 2nd round  
David B. : 4/14/2021 12:50 pm : link
I don't believe that would happen, but I'd be pleased if it did.

Strahan and Osi were 2nd round picks. Tuck was a 3rd.
Remember not many  
Carl in CT : 4/14/2021 1:00 pm : link
6ft 2 DE’s. Now some will say OLB. The bigger the harder for the qb to see. That shouldn’t be the only factor. I do see a lot of Shane Ray in the Georgia edge. Shane top ten talent (dropped to early 20’s drug use). Was 6ft 2 245 LBs coming into the league and was a sack machine. Injuries and size limitation and he never put it together and had a short career. That’s the scary part. So similar.
Accept  
Carl in CT : 4/14/2021 1:01 pm : link
The drug part. Don’t assume that I’m saying he is on drugs please.
I Phillips didn't have the injury concerns,  
Section331 : 4/14/2021 1:09 pm : link
he's likely a top 10 pick. That said, it is a very valid concern. If the Giants go ER at 11 (or with a trade down), I think it will be Ojulari.
RE: RE: Easy one for me...  
chopperhatch : 4/14/2021 1:12 pm : link
In comment 15220502 bigblue12 said:
Quote:
In comment 15220337 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


Ojulari

Good production in the SEC
High Football Character
Explosive Athlete
Good Measurables (especially arm length)
No significant injury history



30” vertical is pretty terrible and not indicative of a exclusive athlete



Noticed that too. Im not crazy about Ojulari. I would love him if he could cover, but I have only heard it hinted "he can cover a bit." Fuck that show me! Theres really no tape of him covering an area effectively.

Paye has pretty elite athleticism and if he is a worker, there is certainly technique he can learn to become a finisher. Incredible strength, speed, quickness, explosion out of his stance, there is a lot to work with there. It sounds to me theonly knock on him is he isnt very bendy. If he is getting into the backfield, that is already a good sign
RE: I Phillips didn't have the injury concerns,  
chopperhatch : 4/14/2021 1:13 pm : link
In comment 15220544 Section331 said:
Quote:
he's likely a top 10 pick. That said, it is a very valid concern. If the Giants go ER at 11 (or with a trade down), I think it will be Ojulari.


Not according to JuanCito
A Big No To Phillips  
Trainmaster : 4/14/2021 1:18 pm : link
Quitting football and the concussion history makes for a big pass for me.

Paye  
GoDeep13 : 4/14/2021 1:29 pm : link
Is my EDGE 1. At 261 he ran a 4.52, put up 36 reps, and has film of him running a faster 3-cone than Tyreek Hill. Anyone that thinks he can’t play standing up is ridiculous. Guy reminds me of Terrell Suggs/Justin Houston, powerful hands and lower body explosion that can shorten the EDGE matched with a high motor. I think he’ll get after the QB just fine in the pros.
RE: Paye  
chopperhatch : 4/14/2021 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15220580 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
Is my EDGE 1. At 261 he ran a 4.52, put up 36 reps, and has film of him running a faster 3-cone than Tyreek Hill. Anyone that thinks he can’t play standing up is ridiculous. Guy reminds me of Terrell Suggs/Justin Houston, powerful hands and lower body explosion that can shorten the EDGE matched with a high motor. I think he’ll get after the QB just fine in the pros.


Yea I am liking more and more of what I see from him. Pass rush CAN be taught when you have measurables and work ethic. Day one he is an absolute savage in stopping the run. I also have to believe that his ability to read the read options that have become so prevalent in QBs. We have gotten killed there over the years. This guy just looks like he could me coached into a monster.
Heres the ALL 22 and another breakdown of Paye.  
chopperhatch : 4/14/2021 1:54 pm : link
I like this one better

Mentions coachability and if he runs sub 7 3 cone
RE: Heres the ALL 22 and another breakdown of Paye.  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/14/2021 2:04 pm : link
In comment 15220614 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
I like this one better

Mentions coachability and if he runs sub 7 3 cone

Wasn't his 3-cone sub 6.5?
Paye  
Thegratefulhead : 4/14/2021 2:12 pm : link
I know he was asked to other things than rush but when I watch games, they did ask him to rush a decent amount. Why didn't he pile up some sacks against lineman much less talented than the ones that he will face in the NFL? He gets consistent push, I will give you that.
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