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Devonta Smith - I can't see how we DON'T pick him

cosmicj : 4/14/2021 1:04 pm
Extremely talented pure football player.
But with very good athletic skills.
Rep as a hard worker.
Succeeded on the field against top college talent.
And he delivers in big games.

I'm generally against drafting WRs high and think the "give Jones weapons" line is a bunch of bs. But I look at Smith and that resume and ability and it's very hard to see a team picking at 11 saying "Nah, we're good." His size maybe disqualifies him from being a top 5 pick, but we are at 11.

Anyone else step back from all the draft evaluations and details with this question: "how could the Giants NOT pick him?"
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I don't think we pass on him,  
Section331 : 4/14/2021 1:07 pm : link
I just don't think he'll still be available.
I think he's the pick if he's there  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2021 1:07 pm : link
and it has the potential to turn our biggest weakness last year into a strength. OL/DE/OLB can still be had later in the draft and none of them equal his grade at 11, unless someone unexpectedly falls like Sewell.
if he's there  
ryanmkeane : 4/14/2021 1:08 pm : link
it would be one of the more shocking things in recent NYG draft history if we passed on him
Doubt he is there  
ZogZerg : 4/14/2021 1:08 pm : link
.
The issue is his frame  
JonC : 4/14/2021 1:08 pm : link
he probably weighs under 170, so there's a bigger risk than normal. But, I tend to agree NYG wouldn't skip over him at #11 unless they really want defense (I do).
Have You Looked At His Physique?  
Trainmaster : 4/14/2021 1:10 pm : link
You don't have any concerns that given how skinny / slightly built he is that he might have an injury plagued career?

D Smith seems like a low floor (due to durability) high ceiling (if he can dominate the NFL as he did in the SEC) guy.

D Smith isn't a "throw the remote" pick for me, but frankly, I'd rather the Giants go with more of a sure thing at #11.

I also think Judge places a ton of value on character  
csb : 4/14/2021 1:14 pm : link
From everything I've heard and read Smith is one of the hardest workers and not a "diva". I think that goes a long way. Nothing against Waddle but I would take Smith over him in a heartbeat. Reminds me of Manning vs. Leaf - everyone was drooling over Leaf's skillset (ala Waddle) but Manning, despite a weaker arm had demonstrated 4 years of success and had no character red flags (ala Smith).
plenty of guys played WR  
ryanmkeane : 4/14/2021 1:18 pm : link
for 15 years at the same size as Smith. It's only an issue if he's someone you think will be hurt all the time. Smith doesn't strike me as that kind of guy. His body control is ridiculous. He's not just crashing into guys every game
Waddle over Smith by the slimmest of margins  
Thegratefulhead : 4/14/2021 1:20 pm : link
Waddle is more than just speed, very crafty.
Waddle breakdown - ( New Window )
RE: plenty of guys played WR  
csb : 4/14/2021 1:21 pm : link
In comment 15220563 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
for 15 years at the same size as Smith. It's only an issue if he's someone you think will be hurt all the time. Smith doesn't strike me as that kind of guy. His body control is ridiculous. He's not just crashing into guys every game


The new rules also protect defenseless receivers which should allow someone like Smith to be lower risk.
Cosmicj  
NYGgolfer : 4/14/2021 1:29 pm : link
I think you are correct in your thinking. Smith is so uber-talented and meets all the intangible marks with flying colors. And to boot, the NYG could use more investment in the WR unit for the longer term.

Would be almost shocking if Giants pass on him if he is available at #11.
I'm  
AcidTest : 4/14/2021 1:32 pm : link
fine with Smith at #11, although I agree his frame is concerting, so I understand the "low floor" "high ceiling" arguments. I'd pass on Waddle because of his foot.
How could the Giants NOT pick him?  
CT Charlie : 4/14/2021 1:33 pm : link
Well, one way is if the coaching staff decided that, with Golladay, Shep, Slayton (and Ross) in the locker room, the impact on our team between Smith and a 2nd or 3rd round receiver is far less than the difference in impact between a 1st and a 2nd round guard, tackle, linebacker, or edge rusher. Excellent linemen are more rare and, given our lineup, more valuable than excellent receivers.
Are they going to use pick # 11  
jc in c-ville : 4/14/2021 1:40 pm : link
To draft what will be the Giants # 2 WR for the next 3/4 years? Give me a ER or OL and fill in WR if they have one rated high enough in rounds 2 or 3. It is critical they get both sides of the line built up first.
If Waddle or Smith are there  
averagejoe : 4/14/2021 2:01 pm : link
that has to be the pick. Golladay is an end zone threat. By adding Smith or Waddle you insure Golladay can't be doubled. A premium pick at a premium position. Hoping, hoping, hoping Smith is there.
I think this slim build thing is overstated  
PwndPapi : 4/14/2021 2:03 pm : link
There is no correlation between slim builds and injuries. This is football. All players get dinged up throughout the course of the season.

What's more indicative is his 47 career games. Was he generally available to play? Did he gut out minor injuries? Unequivocally yes. People forget how often Plaxico Burress was dinged up. He was always nursing something or other and routinely missed practices and he was 6'6" and 230. Engram is is a rock solid 240lbs and misses an avg 3/4 games a season.

Would you prefer that Smith was 6'1" and 190? Of course. But few prospects tick every box and still perform how you expect them to at the NFL level. Smith is a professional and a gamer. He will be there when it counts barring a serious injury.
RE: By adding Smith or Waddle you insure Golladay can't be doubled.  
Trainmaster : 4/14/2021 2:10 pm : link
But it doesn't matter who is doubled or not if Jones is on his back or running for his life.

Our current (including Golladay, Ross and Rudolph) WRs and TEs can get open if Jones has an average amount of time to throw.

Adding a starting offensive lineman makes both Jones and Barkley more effective.

Adding another stud to the defense reduces the number of points the offense has to score and gives the offense better field position.

It's not as simple as just adding another WR to the mix IMHO with the 11th overall pick. These is supposedly a very deep WR class. There will be talent on day 2 at the WR position.



I can't imagine the Giants passing on him...  
Johnny5 : 4/14/2021 2:13 pm : link
... if he's there. If I was a betting man, he's not there at 11. Should be interesting depending on what QBs go and who inevitably drops to #11. I'm not the type who gets upset about who the Giants pick or don't pick... so I think we get a good player.
I think the feeling among pundits and observers  
Producer : 4/14/2021 2:29 pm : link
is that Smith will likely be there at 11. And that Waddle is superior to Smith.
I expect Smith to be there due to the run of QBs  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/14/2021 2:30 pm : link
question is will they take him.
I prefer Waddle  
AcesUp : 4/14/2021 2:32 pm : link
I just think he brings an element to this offense that is a lot harder to find. He also brings serious Year 1 juice on specials and designed plays. The injuries would be a tiebreaker that the Giants would need to figure out but he'd be my preference off what you see on the screen.
One question about Smith:  
BigBlueNH : 4/14/2021 2:43 pm : link
can you even run outside to his side of the field? I can't imagine that, at his size, he'd be effective blocking anybody. With the Giants wanting to run the ball, and having invested heavily in SB, this may be a consideration.
RE: I prefer Waddle  
Johnny5 : 4/14/2021 2:49 pm : link
In comment 15220687 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I just think he brings an element to this offense that is a lot harder to find. He also brings serious Year 1 juice on specials and designed plays. The injuries would be a tiebreaker that the Giants would need to figure out but he'd be my preference off what you see on the screen.

I don't disagree. They both are great players, I kind of look at them as 1A and 1B... lol. I'd be happy with either. I think Smith is the better receiver and he plays tougher than his size (IMO) but that "Tyreek Hill" type dynamic makes Waddle soooo interesting... lol.
RE: I prefer Waddle  
Producer : 4/14/2021 2:51 pm : link
In comment 15220687 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I just think he brings an element to this offense that is a lot harder to find. He also brings serious Year 1 juice on specials and designed plays. The injuries would be a tiebreaker that the Giants would need to figure out but he'd be my preference off what you see on the screen.


I actually believe Waddle will not be there at 11 and Smith will be. I think the selections go Chase-Waddle, prior to us.
RE: RE: By adding Smith or Waddle you insure Golladay can't be doubled.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/14/2021 2:54 pm : link
In comment 15220634 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
But it doesn't matter who is doubled or not if Jones is on his back or running for his life.

Our current (including Golladay, Ross and Rudolph) WRs and TEs can get open if Jones has an average amount of time to throw.

Adding a starting offensive lineman makes both Jones and Barkley more effective.

Adding another stud to the defense reduces the number of points the offense has to score and gives the offense better field position.

It's not as simple as just adding another WR to the mix IMHO with the 11th overall pick. These is supposedly a very deep WR class. There will be talent on day 2 at the WR position.




I agree. I’m not even certain of this glaring need at receiver that most of BBI appears to believe.
RE: I prefer Waddle  
Mike in NY : 4/14/2021 2:54 pm : link
In comment 15220687 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I just think he brings an element to this offense that is a lot harder to find. He also brings serious Year 1 juice on specials and designed plays. The injuries would be a tiebreaker that the Giants would need to figure out but he'd be my preference off what you see on the screen.


Unless Waddle demonstrates that he is fully healthy prior to the draft I am not sure you can draft him at 11. In the National Championship Game he clearly did not look the same WR and against the same defense Smith was dominant.
I want a good edge guy bad, 1st round ....  
Manny in CA : 4/14/2021 3:05 pm : link

But yes, if Getteleman were to pass on Smith, Mara would have the guys in the big white van escort him off the premises in a straight jacket.
There will be 8 months between then and Opening Weekend  
AcesUp : 4/14/2021 3:07 pm : link
I get it though, anything lower leg with a slighter guy that relies on explosive athleticism should raise a red flag. I don't have the info to speculate, the Giants and other teams need to consult with their medical teams to assess the risk. Just flat out, all clear on the injuries, I'd go Waddle. I actually disagree with Producer and think Smith goes before Waddle for that reason.
I haven't seen him play, but  
Grey Pilgrim : 4/14/2021 3:12 pm : link
I think his size might preclude him from being a good run blocker.

:dunno:
We had OBJ and Eli was in the backfield running for his life  
AnnapolisMike : 4/14/2021 3:14 pm : link
If the Giants are not confident they have the OL settled...that's how they pass on Smith/Waddle. Jones on his back and Barkley running up against a brick wall is not an option this year.
...  
BleedBlue : 4/14/2021 3:38 pm : link
OL is a bigger need as is edge.

The value of slater or sewell is close to smith so need meets value pretty well for one of those 2 guys. parsons too if you feel he can bring a good amount of rush ability (which i think he can).
I kind of like the idea of picking guard  
Bob from Massachusetts : 4/14/2021 3:50 pm : link
particularly if they could move to tackle if need be. But that said, there are certain players you just can't pass up if they're available. So if you assume 4 quarterbacks are gone and I would be quite surprised if Pitts, Chase, and Smith are still around, there's only 3 other people who can get picked before us, including Sewell, Surtain, Waddle, and Vera-Tucker and Slater, the last two being the ones if I was only choosing based on position, which we clearly shouldn't do. If Smith is available, he'd be hard to pass up.

So even with Parsons, for whom none of us know about his intangibles, there's going to be someone awfully good available. Based on experience it means the Giants will probably pick someone else like Jaycee Horn or Toney some other curve ball. I wouldn't be too thrilled about Ojulari at that spot, but I suppose it could be. It should be a fun evening.
there is some concern that he won't be able to get off the line  
gtt350 : 4/14/2021 3:55 pm : link
in press coverage.
Still hoping for a pass rusher or an OL  
David B. : 4/14/2021 4:06 pm : link
But think it will likely be a WR. Don't much care which guy.

Watch. They'll take the CB.
RE: I think this slim build thing is overstated  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/14/2021 4:06 pm : link
In comment 15220628 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
There is no correlation between slim builds and injuries. This is football. All players get dinged up throughout the course of the season.

What's more indicative is his 47 career games. Was he generally available to play? Did he gut out minor injuries? Unequivocally yes. People forget how often Plaxico Burress was dinged up. He was always nursing something or other and routinely missed practices and he was 6'6" and 230. Engram is is a rock solid 240lbs and misses an avg 3/4 games a season.

Would you prefer that Smith was 6'1" and 190? Of course. But few prospects tick every box and still perform how you expect them to at the NFL level. Smith is a professional and a gamer. He will be there when it counts barring a serious injury.


This is the way I look at it as well. Originally didn't like him during the season because of the size issue, but if he were 190lbs he would be going top 5. After keying in on him a bit more I feel like he does a great job of avoiding hits (a really undervalued skill for guys that carry the ball, especially the undersized ones).
Slater  
PaulN : 4/14/2021 4:08 pm : link
Over him any day of the week. Who was a better pick Martin or Beckham. That is easy, Martin every time, There is no Beckham at wide reciever also, so this is an easy choice alright. I will remind you from time to time moving forward.
RE: there is some concern that he won't be able to get off the line  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/14/2021 4:10 pm : link
In comment 15220810 gtt350 said:
Quote:
in press coverage.


It's all about hands, and regardless he can play a ton of line if he can't. But the way he's a technician in his routes, I'd imagine he brings the same skills to get off press coverage.
Based on nothing  
darren in pdx : 4/14/2021 4:11 pm : link
but all of the speculation recently, my feeling is they’re going to see if their top WR choices are available and take them at 11.

If not, a slight trade back and grab whoever their pass rusher unless someone like Sewell drops, or if no trade partner they’ll take their pass rusher at 11. If they get a WR at 11, I wouldn’t be surprised if they trade back up into the 1st round to get an Edge they feel won’t make it to their 2nd round pick.

My feeling is that the team probably feels that if they get the WR or Edge they want will be an immediate contributor to the team whereas an OL may not be an immediate starter over what they have now.
Always nervous about pass catchers in the first round...  
The Mike : 4/14/2021 4:25 pm : link
And this is a deep wide receiver class. There will be at least six wide receivers who are near the level of both Smith and Waddle, albeit lacking the pedigree, who can be had on day two. 1) Terrace Marshall, 2) Kadarius Toney, 3) Elijah Moore, 4) Rondale Moore, 5) Tylan Wallace and 6) Nico Collins. Any of these guys have the speed to take the double coverage so as to allow Golladay to win one on one matchups.
I would be very happy with Smith; however,  
DonnieD89 : 4/14/2021 4:33 pm : link
I would love to have Parsons, if he checks out. He has the potential to elevate the defense and make it elite.
RE: Always nervous about pass catchers in the first round...  
Johnny5 : 4/14/2021 4:33 pm : link
In comment 15220850 The Mike said:
Quote:
And this is a deep wide receiver class. There will be at least six wide receivers who are near the level of both Smith and Waddle, albeit lacking the pedigree, who can be had on day two. 1) Terrace Marshall, 2) Kadarius Toney, 3) Elijah Moore, 4) Rondale Moore, 5) Tylan Wallace and 6) Nico Collins. Any of these guys have the speed to take the double coverage so as to allow Golladay to win one on one matchups.

I don't disagree however I don't think any position in 1st round makes me less nervous. They all seem equal in their opportunity to boom or bust. As long as Giants are picking the best player on their board I really don't care what the position is.
Not a fan of picking a WR in round one  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/14/2021 4:34 pm : link
Almost ever. But other than Pitts or maybe Sewell if they ass on Smith it will be stupid on a scary level. Kid is a leader and the literal antithesis of so many of today’s players.
I really want Smith  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/14/2021 4:35 pm : link
but I am beginning to accept that he won't be there when we are on the clock
RE: there is some concern that he won't be able to get off the line  
PwndPapi : 4/14/2021 4:36 pm : link
In comment 15220810 gtt350 said:
Quote:
in press coverage.


Based on what? Name one CB who successfully and consistently jammed Smith at the LOS during any game.

And...go...
RE: I really want Smith  
Producer : 4/14/2021 4:36 pm : link
In comment 15220867 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
but I am beginning to accept that he won't be there when we are on the clock


He WILL be there.
RE: there is some concern that he won't be able to get off the line  
Thegratefulhead : 4/14/2021 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15220810 gtt350 said:
Quote:
in press coverage.
None from me. There is a decent amount of breakdown on Smith you can look at. I did. All I Can say after watching is that you better come to the line to reroute him technically perfect or you are going to get embarrassed. He gives you the tiniest amount of space to put your hands on him because of how fluid he is. He understands this is how you are going to attack him, his counters to press are NFL ready. Teams in the SEC had that idea in 2020, it didn't work out.
I can see it.  
Klaatu : 4/14/2021 4:43 pm : link
Do you take the WR in the 1st Round and hope to get an OL in the 2nd or 3rd, or do you take the OL in the 1st and hope to get a WR in the 2nd or 3rd? For me, if the grades are close, you take the OL. You make life easier for your three biggest investments - Jones, Barkley, and Golladay.
RE: I really want Smith  
Judge_and_Jury : 4/14/2021 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15220867 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
but I am beginning to accept that he won't be there when we are on the clock


Marvin Harrison was drafted 19th and Isaac Bruce 33rd. No neither had the production of Devonta but the slight framed guys don't usually make the top 10. Devonta could be an exception but maybe not. This is a deep draft and these teams could easily go WR in a later round too.
RE: I can see it.  
chopperhatch : 4/14/2021 4:47 pm : link
In comment 15220881 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Do you take the WR in the 1st Round and hope to get an OL in the 2nd or 3rd, or do you take the OL in the 1st and hope to get a WR in the 2nd or 3rd? For me, if the grades are close, you take the OL. You make life easier for your three biggest investments - Jones, Barkley, and Golladay.


Disagree, if a player can get as open as often as Smith does, you take the TD maker. He is the most ready to start WR in the draft. The only other OL that could make an argument will be long gone when we pick in Sewell. Between Smith and ANY other OL, I take the guy that can run rputes to make DBs look silly.
Way undersized, the Heisman curse, need more on the OL,  
Red Dog : 4/14/2021 4:50 pm : link
with Golloday, Ross, Randolph, and Booker now on board and SB returning, I don't see taking Smith at all. Too big a risk for my liking.
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