Maybe at the trade deadline for a mid/late round pick by a contending team dealing with an injury? Engram is a total bust ready for his second contract. Can't see getting much value for him until there is desperate need...
I think they want 2 TE sets with both being pass catchers. Maybe we trade him at the deadline but I highly doubt he’s moved prior. I guess there’s a tiny chance he can be packaged for a trade up in the draft but I doubt that too.
I think they want 2 TE sets with both being pass catchers. Maybe we trade him at the deadline but I highly doubt he’s moved prior. I guess there’s a tiny chance he can be packaged for a trade up in the draft but I doubt that too.
What use is it going to be if he can't catch the ball?
I also doubt that Pitts would fall to us, but IF Pitts was drafted we’d be lucky to get a bag at balls for him. Our bargaining position would be diminished, IF they were to trade him it would be before the draft.
I think they want 2 TE sets with both being pass catchers. Maybe we trade him at the deadline but I highly doubt he’s moved prior. I guess there’s a tiny chance he can be packaged for a trade up in the draft but I doubt that too.
What use is it going to be if he can't catch the ball?
The staff likes him and sees enough to let his contract play out. If the light goes on then we have a valuable player, if it doesn't then we move on. I think the pieces we've added will hopefully take the pressure off him. If his catch % goes back to where it was in 2018/19 than he's worth keeping, IMO.
whether Engram stays or goes, we need a better TE as badly as
by Jones - on the road at our biggest rival with the game on the line.
That's why he's gotten a raw deal so far. He's played better than his stats indicate. Obviously Judge agrees.
Maybe that's why the question Jones so much about his ability to read the game? That play was a really good example of his critics' point; that was simply atrocious decision-making. He decided to throw it to Engram.
that's a stretch. We have Rudolph and Engram isn't exactly a liability out there.
We also don't need a DB.
But if you're building for beyond 2021 in this draft, you might consider TE a priority. It's unlikely Engram or Rudolph will be here beyond this season.
Engram had 11, and a bunch of others had 10+ depending on which site you use. From 2018-2020 Edelman led the league in drops.
My point is drops happen, its more the when that matters. Engram is probably the unluckiest of the bunch with how many resulted in turnovers. If he can cut the drops by even just 1/3 we will see a big uptick in production. And he's had a 70% catch rate before so I know its possible.
I think it would have been done already. Maybe after the draft, a TE-needy team decides to overpay, but I doubt it. For all of his faults, EE was 2nd on the team in receptions and 3rd in yards. Give him an offseason with the juggs gun set at high.
RE: Engram just needs a special helmet that has the facemask
and maybe a rim above the eyes that are slanted downward.
That way when a ball goes thru his hands and hits him in the head it deflects down towards the ground versus up in the air and intercepted.
Easy fix...
No, it's Jones fault. If he McNabb'd more throws, they'd go straight to the ground. Jones keeps throwing balls chest high while leading Engram though...
I think it would have been done already. Maybe after the draft, a TE-needy team decides to overpay, but I doubt it. For all of his faults, EE was 2nd on the team in receptions and 3rd in yards. Give him an offseason with the juggs gun set at high.
He's entering his 5th season. You don't think anyone's thought about that before?
Plenty of reasons a trade could still happen. Maybe a TE needy team in the top 10 wants to see if Pitts drops to them before pulling the trigger? Maybe a team likes someone in round 2-3 but isn't sure if those players will be available.
Maybe the Giants have some offers (e.g. a 4th) and want to see who's available before pulling the trigger.
shows the impact those drops had, it was brutal. But it also shows the previous 2 years there were 0 INT's attributed - the QB rating was 99 or above as well.
I get not liking him and I know its fun for many to rag on the guy. But he can positively impact the game with better focus and coaching. And depending on how the draft shakes out for us at WR we might be fielding the best skill players we've seen in quite some time which should allow him more space, and less pressure.
shows the impact those drops had, it was brutal. But it also shows the previous 2 years there were 0 INT's attributed - the QB rating was 99 or above as well.
I get not liking him and I know its fun for many to rag on the guy. But he can positively impact the game with better focus and coaching. And depending on how the draft shakes out for us at WR we might be fielding the best skill players we've seen in quite some time which should allow him more space, and less pressure.
So... what happened this year? How did he go from no interceptions attributed to 6?
shows the impact those drops had, it was brutal. But it also shows the previous 2 years there were 0 INT's attributed - the QB rating was 99 or above as well.
I get not liking him and I know its fun for many to rag on the guy. But he can positively impact the game with better focus and coaching. And depending on how the draft shakes out for us at WR we might be fielding the best skill players we've seen in quite some time which should allow him more space, and less pressure.
The problem is not necessarily that they happened, but when they happened. As posted in the gif above, that was a dagger throw that would have ended that Philly game (noted that it was a prime time game on the road) right then and there. We know what happened after.
shows the impact those drops had, it was brutal. But it also shows the previous 2 years there were 0 INT's attributed - the QB rating was 99 or above as well.
I get not liking him and I know its fun for many to rag on the guy. But he can positively impact the game with better focus and coaching. And depending on how the draft shakes out for us at WR we might be fielding the best skill players we've seen in quite some time which should allow him more space, and less pressure.
So... what happened this year? How did he go from no interceptions attributed to 6?
Don't know. What I do know is that the other years did happen and he has been better so there's precedence. We talk about that a lot on this board when critiquing our players and I'm bringing it up now to illustrate that he's actually capable of good production.
Britt - 6 INTs is 6 INTs. Yes, a few happened at really bad times but that was after 2 years of 0 INT's - just incredibly bad luck. I don't "trust" him per say, but I don't have faith that he can play better. He's also in his contract year, its reasonable to assume he will be highly motivated to improve.
on Pat Freiermuth. If he’s sitting there in the 2nd round, I could see him being the pick. Or, if the Giants value him higher than Engram, maybe EE is packaged to move up to draft Freiermuth.
and I think Pitts seems like a lock to be gone top 10, which makes it pretty unlikely Engram gets traded.
Judge says he's a hard worker, have to hope he can clean up the drops. As Uconn said last year was particularly bad so you would think there's some regression back to his previous norms.
RE: if they pick Pitts or Freiermuth i'd guess traded otherwise he's here
and I think Pitts seems like a lock to be gone top 10, which makes it pretty unlikely Engram gets traded.
Judge says he's a hard worker, have to hope he can clean up the drops. As Uconn said last year was particularly bad so you would think there's some regression back to his previous norms.
Unless they have some intel on where Pitts is likely to go, and they get them on the phone when that pick is on the clock, and offer Engram in a trade up scenario.
RE: RE: Engram just needs a special helmet that has the facemask
Yes. Look at Advanced Receiving and Rushing, 2020. Engram Stats Page, Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
I've watched all ten of DJ's 2020 INTs and there were two that "bounced" off Engram: @ Eagles and vs Cowboys. One more @ Bears that might have grazed a fingertip as he was reaching up from the ground after having slipped.
The PFR stat is for "targets" not "attributed to." If TJ Watt jumps up and snags the ball at the LOS and Engram is ten yards downfield in the direction of the throw, he's the target, but not the cause.
The PFR target stat is also wrong, by their own play-by-play and as confirmed by video. Should be five, not six.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Daniel Jones threw 10 INT's last year.
Yes. Look at Advanced Receiving and Rushing, 2020. Engram Stats Page, Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
I've watched all ten of DJ's 2020 INTs and there were two that "bounced" off Engram: @ Eagles and vs Cowboys. One more @ Bears that might have grazed a fingertip as he was reaching up from the ground after having slipped.
The PFR stat is for "targets" not "attributed to." If TJ Watt jumps up and snags the ball at the LOS and Engram is ten yards downfield in the direction of the throw, he's the target, but not the cause.
The PFR target stat is also wrong, by their own play-by-play and as confirmed by video. Should be five, not six.
That’s still 5 too many picks caused by one non-QB. And he’s a TE, they are supposed to be safety valves, not turnover machines.
I think the appropriate term is “unload” or “give away” because
That’s still 5 too many picks caused by one non-QB.
Again, the PFR stat is for "targets" not "caused". As I said about the TJ Watt play.
Ah, I misread the last part of your post. I see what you are saying now. He bobbled up two, finger tipped one and was the target on two more. So basically he definitely caused two picks, likely caused the third and was targeted on the other two.
The picks are one thing, but the odd fumble in the Bengals game right before hitting the ground, the awful drop in Philly, and that jacked up handoff fumble in the 49ers game just douse gasoline on the fire in addition to those picks.
That is not true. Not even close. Below is a link to every one of DJ's TO's. I hate to bring facts into the debate...
PITT (2 INT's): 1. TJ Watt jumps at the LOS to intercept, pass was to Shepard.
2. Bud Dupree hits DJ as he is rolling left, ball floats to the goal line (EE may have been the target, but hardly his fault).
CHI 3. EE stumbles out of his break, ball is intercepted, but it never touched his hands. You can blame EE here, but not for bad hands.
SF 4. Ball was thrown to EE, but was an awful throw, late and behind EE. EE never had a chance.
LAR 5. Throw to Slayton near the goal line, late.
WFT 6. DJ pressured, throws to Slayton in the EZ, picked off.
PHIL 7. A throw EE should have had. This INT is on him.
TB 8. Throws to Shepard (when Slayton was WIDE OPEN).
9. Under pressure, DJ throws late to Tate
DAL 10. Another on EE, should have caught it.
SO EE was the target on 6 INT's, but it is ridiculous to say that all 6 went off his hands. 2 did, a 3rd can be pinned on him because he slipped on his break.
odd fumble against Cincy? He was stretched out and about to hit the ground when a defended punched the ball out. Yes, he's been a disappointment, but he also made big catches that helped them win games, and was the ONLY guy teams needed to focus on - other teams said as much.
With Galloday, and maybe another weapon from the draft, I'd like to see how this offense goes this Fall with Engram a part of it.
but the point remains that Evan Engram was the cause or intended target of 6 INT's. 60%. 3 of which legitimately bounced off his hands.
That's not to mention egregious drops like the Philly game above.
So again, saying Engram bounced 6 picks into a defenders hands was hyperbole. But it's not far from the truth.
I call bullshit on hyperbole, you reaffirmed it as fact to another poster.
2 bounced off his hands, you can argue that a 3rd was his fault (he slipped out of his break, which can happen to anyone). The other 3 are squarely on DJ, but you won't admit that.
but the point remains that Evan Engram was the cause or intended target of 6 INT's. 60%. 3 of which legitimately bounced off his hands.
That's not to mention egregious drops like the Philly game above.
So again, saying Engram bounced 6 picks into a defenders hands was hyperbole. But it's not far from the truth.
I call bullshit on hyperbole, you reaffirmed it as fact to another poster.
2 bounced off his hands, you can argue that a 3rd was his fault (he slipped out of his break, which can happen to anyone). The other 3 are squarely on DJ, but you won't admit that.
And so did the dude right after me with a link to the stats.
I literally just admitted to calling my own statement hyperbole....
You called it hyperbole AFTER I called you out on it. Sorry, I'm not giving you credit for that. You reiterated a lie when asked, and only when presented with video evidence did you backtrack.
Look, EE is a flawed player. So is DJ. It is fine to discuss either's shortcomings or blame them when it is deserved. But the outright hatred and misinfo on Engram by alleged Giant fans is bizarre. He is almost certainly going to be a Giant next season. Hopefully he has spent this offseason with the juggs gun at its highest speed.
but the point remains that Evan Engram was the cause or intended target of 6 INT's. 60%. 3 of which legitimately bounced off his hands.
That's not to mention egregious drops like the Philly game above.
So again, saying Engram bounced 6 picks into a defenders hands was hyperbole. But it's not far from the truth.
I call bullshit on hyperbole, you reaffirmed it as fact to another poster.
2 bounced off his hands, you can argue that a 3rd was his fault (he slipped out of his break, which can happen to anyone). The other 3 are squarely on DJ, but you won't admit that.
Looks like Engram isn't the only one dropping the ball...
odd fumble against Cincy? He was stretched out and about to hit the ground when a defended punched the ball out. Yes, he's been a disappointment, but he also made big catches that helped them win games, and was the ONLY guy teams needed to focus on - other teams said as much.
With Galloday, and maybe another weapon from the draft, I'd like to see how this offense goes this Fall with Engram a part of it.
You’re right, he could have gotten it karate kicked out of his hands like Dion Lewis in the Arizona game lol.
As much as I think it is time to cut bait, the Giants don't. So no he will make it to opening day...
But, but, but, there is only one thing he can’t do - Catch.
As much as I think it is time to cut bait, the Giants don't. So no he will make it to opening day...
Maybe they're just talking the guy up in the hope they can enhance his trade value.
What use is it going to be if he can't catch the ball?
I also doubt that Pitts would fall to us, but IF Pitts was drafted we’d be lucky to get a bag at balls for him. Our bargaining position would be diminished, IF they were to trade him it would be before the draft.
I still don't know how he dropped that.
Quote:
I think they want 2 TE sets with both being pass catchers. Maybe we trade him at the deadline but I highly doubt he’s moved prior. I guess there’s a tiny chance he can be packaged for a trade up in the draft but I doubt that too.
What use is it going to be if he can't catch the ball?
The staff likes him and sees enough to let his contract play out. If the light goes on then we have a valuable player, if it doesn't then we move on. I think the pieces we've added will hopefully take the pressure off him. If his catch % goes back to where it was in 2018/19 than he's worth keeping, IMO.
That's why he's gotten a raw deal so far. He's played better than his stats indicate. Obviously Judge agrees.
That's why he's gotten a raw deal so far. He's played better than his stats indicate. Obviously Judge agrees.
+1
That's why he's gotten a raw deal so far. He's played better than his stats indicate. Obviously Judge agrees.
Maybe that's why the question Jones so much about his ability to read the game? That play was a really good example of his critics' point; that was simply atrocious decision-making. He decided to throw it to Engram.
That's why he's gotten a raw deal so far. He's played better than his stats indicate. Obviously Judge agrees.
Would agree targeting Engram hurt his stats in 2020, but Jones has gotten a perfectly fair deal so far.
He started almost immediately as a rookie and now gets a third year despite the negatives he has displayed in his game as well...
I hope you're right.
that's a stretch. We have Rudolph and Engram isn't exactly a liability out there.
We also don't need a DB.
EXCUSES!!!
Quote:
we need an OL, RB, or DB.
that's a stretch. We have Rudolph and Engram isn't exactly a liability out there.
We also don't need a DB.
But if you're building for beyond 2021 in this draft, you might consider TE a priority. It's unlikely Engram or Rudolph will be here beyond this season.
My point is drops happen, its more the when that matters. Engram is probably the unluckiest of the bunch with how many resulted in turnovers. If he can cut the drops by even just 1/3 we will see a big uptick in production. And he's had a 70% catch rate before so I know its possible.
Quote:
So the answer is yes.
I hope you're right.
+2.
That way when a ball goes thru his hands and hits him in the head it deflects down towards the ground versus up in the air and intercepted.
Easy fix...
That way when a ball goes thru his hands and hits him in the head it deflects down towards the ground versus up in the air and intercepted.
Easy fix...
No, it's Jones fault. If he McNabb'd more throws, they'd go straight to the ground. Jones keeps throwing balls chest high while leading Engram though...
Is this true!?
Quote:
6 of them bounced off Engram's hands.
Is this true!?
Yes.
He's entering his 5th season. You don't think anyone's thought about that before?
Plenty of reasons a trade could still happen. Maybe a TE needy team in the top 10 wants to see if Pitts drops to them before pulling the trigger? Maybe a team likes someone in round 2-3 but isn't sure if those players will be available.
Maybe the Giants have some offers (e.g. a 4th) and want to see who's available before pulling the trigger.
Quote:
6 of them bounced off Engram's hands.
Is this true!?
Yes. Look at Advanced Receiving and Rushing, 2020.
Engram Stats Page, Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
I get not liking him and I know its fun for many to rag on the guy. But he can positively impact the game with better focus and coaching. And depending on how the draft shakes out for us at WR we might be fielding the best skill players we've seen in quite some time which should allow him more space, and less pressure.
I get not liking him and I know its fun for many to rag on the guy. But he can positively impact the game with better focus and coaching. And depending on how the draft shakes out for us at WR we might be fielding the best skill players we've seen in quite some time which should allow him more space, and less pressure.
So... what happened this year? How did he go from no interceptions attributed to 6?
I get not liking him and I know its fun for many to rag on the guy. But he can positively impact the game with better focus and coaching. And depending on how the draft shakes out for us at WR we might be fielding the best skill players we've seen in quite some time which should allow him more space, and less pressure.
The problem is not necessarily that they happened, but when they happened. As posted in the gif above, that was a dagger throw that would have ended that Philly game (noted that it was a prime time game on the road) right then and there. We know what happened after.
Quote:
shows the impact those drops had, it was brutal. But it also shows the previous 2 years there were 0 INT's attributed - the QB rating was 99 or above as well.
I get not liking him and I know its fun for many to rag on the guy. But he can positively impact the game with better focus and coaching. And depending on how the draft shakes out for us at WR we might be fielding the best skill players we've seen in quite some time which should allow him more space, and less pressure.
So... what happened this year? How did he go from no interceptions attributed to 6?
Don't know. What I do know is that the other years did happen and he has been better so there's precedence. We talk about that a lot on this board when critiquing our players and I'm bringing it up now to illustrate that he's actually capable of good production.
Britt - 6 INTs is 6 INTs. Yes, a few happened at really bad times but that was after 2 years of 0 INT's - just incredibly bad luck. I don't "trust" him per say, but I don't have faith that he can play better. He's also in his contract year, its reasonable to assume he will be highly motivated to improve.
I think they must have left the word “Matchup” on there from the prior player they were evaluating. It was supposed to just say “Nightmare”.
That way when a ball goes thru his hands and hits him in the head it deflects down towards the ground versus up in the air and intercepted.
Easy fix...
Ha ha, it’s like the flashing they put around your house windows to keep the water from leaking in.
Judge says he's a hard worker, have to hope he can clean up the drops. As Uconn said last year was particularly bad so you would think there's some regression back to his previous norms.
Judge says he's a hard worker, have to hope he can clean up the drops. As Uconn said last year was particularly bad so you would think there's some regression back to his previous norms.
Unless they have some intel on where Pitts is likely to go, and they get them on the phone when that pick is on the clock, and offer Engram in a trade up scenario.
Quote:
and maybe a rim above the eyes that are slanted downward.
That way when a ball goes thru his hands and hits him in the head it deflects down towards the ground versus up in the air and intercepted.
Easy fix...
Ha ha, it’s like the flashing they put around your house windows to keep the water from leaking in.
Well done here
Quote:
In comment 15221487 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
6 of them bounced off Engram's hands.
Is this true!?
Yes. Look at Advanced Receiving and Rushing, 2020. Engram Stats Page, Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
I've watched all ten of DJ's 2020 INTs and there were two that "bounced" off Engram: @ Eagles and vs Cowboys. One more @ Bears that might have grazed a fingertip as he was reaching up from the ground after having slipped.
The PFR stat is for "targets" not "attributed to." If TJ Watt jumps up and snags the ball at the LOS and Engram is ten yards downfield in the direction of the throw, he's the target, but not the cause.
The PFR target stat is also wrong, by their own play-by-play and as confirmed by video. Should be five, not six.
Quote:
In comment 15221577 armstead98 said:
Quote:
In comment 15221487 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
6 of them bounced off Engram's hands.
Is this true!?
Yes. Look at Advanced Receiving and Rushing, 2020. Engram Stats Page, Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
I've watched all ten of DJ's 2020 INTs and there were two that "bounced" off Engram: @ Eagles and vs Cowboys. One more @ Bears that might have grazed a fingertip as he was reaching up from the ground after having slipped.
The PFR stat is for "targets" not "attributed to." If TJ Watt jumps up and snags the ball at the LOS and Engram is ten yards downfield in the direction of the throw, he's the target, but not the cause.
The PFR target stat is also wrong, by their own play-by-play and as confirmed by video. Should be five, not six.
That’s still 5 too many picks caused by one non-QB. And he’s a TE, they are supposed to be safety valves, not turnover machines.
That’s still 5 too many picks caused by one non-QB.
Again, the PFR stat is for "targets" not "caused". As I said about the TJ Watt play.
Quote:
That’s still 5 too many picks caused by one non-QB.
Again, the PFR stat is for "targets" not "caused". As I said about the TJ Watt play.
Ah, I misread the last part of your post. I see what you are saying now. He bobbled up two, finger tipped one and was the target on two more. So basically he definitely caused two picks, likely caused the third and was targeted on the other two.
The picks are one thing, but the odd fumble in the Bengals game right before hitting the ground, the awful drop in Philly, and that jacked up handoff fumble in the 49ers game just douse gasoline on the fire in addition to those picks.
That is not true. Not even close. Below is a link to every one of DJ's TO's. I hate to bring facts into the debate...
PITT (2 INT's): 1. TJ Watt jumps at the LOS to intercept, pass was to Shepard.
2. Bud Dupree hits DJ as he is rolling left, ball floats to the goal line (EE may have been the target, but hardly his fault).
CHI 3. EE stumbles out of his break, ball is intercepted, but it never touched his hands. You can blame EE here, but not for bad hands.
SF 4. Ball was thrown to EE, but was an awful throw, late and behind EE. EE never had a chance.
LAR 5. Throw to Slayton near the goal line, late.
WFT 6. DJ pressured, throws to Slayton in the EZ, picked off.
PHIL 7. A throw EE should have had. This INT is on him.
TB 8. Throws to Shepard (when Slayton was WIDE OPEN).
9. Under pressure, DJ throws late to Tate
DAL 10. Another on EE, should have caught it.
SO EE was the target on 6 INT's, but it is ridiculous to say that all 6 went off his hands. 2 did, a 3rd can be pinned on him because he slipped on his break.
DJ TO's - ( New Window )
With Galloday, and maybe another weapon from the draft, I'd like to see how this offense goes this Fall with Engram a part of it.
That's not to mention egregious drops like the Philly game above.
So again, saying Engram bounced 6 picks into a defenders hands was hyperbole. But it's not far from the truth.
That's not to mention egregious drops like the Philly game above.
So again, saying Engram bounced 6 picks into a defenders hands was hyperbole. But it's not far from the truth.
I call bullshit on hyperbole, you reaffirmed it as fact to another poster.
2 bounced off his hands, you can argue that a 3rd was his fault (he slipped out of his break, which can happen to anyone). The other 3 are squarely on DJ, but you won't admit that.
Quote:
but the point remains that Evan Engram was the cause or intended target of 6 INT's. 60%. 3 of which legitimately bounced off his hands.
That's not to mention egregious drops like the Philly game above.
So again, saying Engram bounced 6 picks into a defenders hands was hyperbole. But it's not far from the truth.
I call bullshit on hyperbole, you reaffirmed it as fact to another poster.
2 bounced off his hands, you can argue that a 3rd was his fault (he slipped out of his break, which can happen to anyone). The other 3 are squarely on DJ, but you won't admit that.
And so did the dude right after me with a link to the stats.
I didn't make it up.
You called it hyperbole AFTER I called you out on it. Sorry, I'm not giving you credit for that. You reiterated a lie when asked, and only when presented with video evidence did you backtrack.
Look, EE is a flawed player. So is DJ. It is fine to discuss either's shortcomings or blame them when it is deserved. But the outright hatred and misinfo on Engram by alleged Giant fans is bizarre. He is almost certainly going to be a Giant next season. Hopefully he has spent this offseason with the juggs gun at its highest speed.
But regardless, he had some really bad plays this year. Some that cost the team the game. So did Jones. But this thread is about Engram.
Quote:
but the point remains that Evan Engram was the cause or intended target of 6 INT's. 60%. 3 of which legitimately bounced off his hands.
That's not to mention egregious drops like the Philly game above.
So again, saying Engram bounced 6 picks into a defenders hands was hyperbole. But it's not far from the truth.
I call bullshit on hyperbole, you reaffirmed it as fact to another poster.
2 bounced off his hands, you can argue that a 3rd was his fault (he slipped out of his break, which can happen to anyone). The other 3 are squarely on DJ, but you won't admit that.
Looks like Engram isn't the only one dropping the ball...
:-)
With Galloday, and maybe another weapon from the draft, I'd like to see how this offense goes this Fall with Engram a part of it.
You’re right, he could have gotten it karate kicked out of his hands like Dion Lewis in the Arizona game lol.
Because he's trash and this should've never happened because he should've been long gone before this moment.
Then, guess what? He's put right back on the field with no consequences after one of his many, many mistakes.
Until Judge makes that decision, with Engram still on the team, he can fuck off.
Oh we know Judge and Co love Engram, just don’t understand why since he’s been a liability.